I think maybe I need to re-think

[latenight 15]

After visiting this site for a few days, I'm beginning to think that maybe swinging, per se , isn't for us, but certain aspects are. My GF who is a former swinger isn't into returning to the LS, and I have to admit that some of the practices are outside of my comfort zone. We talked about it again last night and we agree that what we are BOTH interested in is girl on girl play . GF says that this was the only thing she found attractive during her swinging experiences. She had very little fun fucking other men, but liked having sex with her female playmates. I'm not against her fucking other men, but I'm also more interested in having a FMF threesome. Is this something that the LS could accomodate? Are there single females or married ladies who play alone , who would be interested?

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Are they out there? Yes. Are they easy to find? For most people, the answer is no.

There's a reason they call single bi females unicorns.

 

As for a couple where the lady plays along: I imagine the majority of couples are similar to us, in that if we play alone, it's with a couple we already know, feel comfortable with, and have played with as a couple. While reciprocation at some point isn't necessarily expected, it is generally understood that it is a possibility.

 

Of course, many couples do not play alone at all.

 

So, yeah they are out there, but they aren't numerous. Expect to invest a lot more time trying to find a single lady or a couple where the lady plays alone than you would looking for a couple.

[latenight 15]

Are they out there? Yes. Are they easy to find? For most people, the answer is no.

There's a reason they call single bi females unicorns.

 

As for a couple where the lady plays along: I imagine the majority of couples are similar to us, in that if we play alone, it's with a couple we already know, feel comfortable with, and have played with as a couple. While reciprocation at some point isn't necessarily expected, it is generally understood that it is a possibility.

 

Of course, many couples do not play alone at all.

 

So, yeah they are out there, but they aren't numerous. Expect to invest a lot more time trying to find a single lady or a couple where the lady plays alone than you would looking for a couple.

So, they're pretty scarce, huh? I'm hoping that a few females that she used to play with when she was in the LS will get on board for it. We have thought about hiring a high-class escort, too. But my GF is adamant about other men. She does NOT want to fuck anybody but me. She said that she felt like she was forced by her ex-husband to get involved and her resentment was very strong, and was one of the main reasons for her divorce. Also, her experiences were not too pleasant. She did one guy who had horrible B.O. and the Black guy was into humiliation and he and her husband called her names, (role playing) and she hated it. On the positive side, she has really opened up about her experiences, and now I have a much better picture of what will and will not be possible.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Just a few thoughts here.

1. I still stand by all my earlier statements that you don't need to be swinging and neither does your relationship.

 

2. Swinging is different for everyone. Certain aspects of what are considered swinging are beyond pretty much everyone's comfort zone. Very few people are into what some would consider the most extreme activities included in the swinging realm. Everyone has their limits.

 

3. You need to make sure that her idea of Girl on Girl meshes with your idea of FMF threesome. Many guys have the fantasy of being with two women at the same time, but often what it really is is two women playing while you sit back and watch and/or only play with your own woman. If you've got it in your head that you are going to get to play with both, you really need to talk to your GF and make sure that would even be ok with her.

 

4. Single Bi-Females are called unicorns for a reason. While their ranks are not nearly as scarce as they once were, they are still very rare.

[DigginIt 1,132]

latenight - I'm not sure if I have read any of your other posts. I sometimes pay more attention to the post versus the name of the poster but your gf sounds like she was in a fucked up relationship and swinging was just a small part. If her ex was into humiliating her then it sounds like it was not the swinging that was the issue but the husband being abusive in general. Maybe her encounters were negative because her husband only wanted her to have those types of encounters with little fulfillment to her. His objective, from just this little I read, could easily have all been geared to purposely be unfulfilling.

 

It doesn't sound like swinging at all but more about control, his control over her. That isn't swinging and in most of the healthier couples we have met, the women make the decisions. They decide who you play with, with mutual consent of course.

 

To your specific question/s. I think they were well covered above. While I am probably in the minority here...being with two women is fun but it's a lot of fucking work!!! Careful what you wish for!!! You just might get it!!! The job is never over when you're done, lol, but when they are done.

[latenight 15]

Just a few thoughts here.

1. I still stand by all my earlier statements that you don't need to be swinging and neither does your relationship.

 

2. Swinging is different for everyone. Certain aspects of what are considered swinging are beyond pretty much everyone's comfort zone. Very few people are into what some would consider the most extreme activities included in the swinging realm. Everyone has their limits.

 

3. You need to make sure that her idea of Girl on Girl meshes with your idea of FMF threesome. Many guys have the fantasy of being with two women at the same time, but often what it really is is two women playing while you sit back and watch and/or only play with your own woman. If you've got it in your head that you are going to get to play with both, you really need to talk to your GF and make sure that would even be ok with her.

 

4. Single Bi-Females are called unicorns for a reason. While their ranks are not nearly as scarce as they once were, they are still very rare.

Julie, I'm pretty positive about what we want , now, but you are right about us needing to communicate a lot more than we have , in the past. A lot of the trouble is that , until this recent flap about "loudmouth", she was very retiscent to talk about her individual experiences, but simply gave me an over-view of her feelings regarding Swinging. I guess that this has been a real eye-opener for me, and I'm still really curious, but will either get into it at her speed, or not at all.

[km34 672]

Are the single women she used to play with still in the area? Does she still talk/hang out with them? If so, you may have a bit of an advantage - assuming that your gf hasn't spoken to them about her negative feelings towards swinging.

 

It may be a long road, but if you two are sure this is what you want to try and are willing to put in the time/effort/potential disappointment to try to experience it, go for it! Just make sure you've built up enough openness of communication so that if one or both of you start to feel frustrated, regret, or any other negative emotion you can get it out IMMEDIATELY and not let it fester. If she felt forced once by an ex, there's no way you want to compound that by making her feel like you will be horribly disappointed if she changes her mind in the future.

 

Good luck with your journey!

[latenight 15]

latenight - I'm not sure if I have read any of your other posts. I sometimes pay more attention to the post versus the name of the poster but your gf sounds like she was in a fucked up relationship and swinging was just a small part. If her ex was into humiliating her then it sounds like it was not the swinging that was the issue but the husband being abusive in general. Maybe her encounters were negative because her husband only wanted her to have those types of encounters with little fulfillment to her. His objective, from just this little I read, could easily have all been geared to purposely be unfulfilling.

 

It doesn't sound like swinging at all but more about control, his control over her. That isn't swinging and in most of the healthier couples we have met, the women make the decisions. They decide who you play with, with mutual consent of course.

 

To your specific question/s. I think they were well covered above. While I am probably in the minority here...being with two women is fun but it's a lot of fucking work!!! Careful what you wish for!!! You just might get it!!! The job is never over when you're done, lol, but when they are done.

Digginit, a lot of what you say is true. Her ex husband had some serious issues with my GF when they were married. My gf is a very successful professional person and always made more money, was more respected, and had a much more positive lifestyle, than her husband and he was always trying to compensate for his perceived inferior position. If that makes sense. She tried very hard to be supportive and that is one of the main reasons that they entered the LS. But the majority of her experiences were based on his urge to see her in demeaning/humiliating situations. An example is when , a few years ago , she received on of the most prestigious awards in her field, and at the awards banquet, he got sloppy drunk and spent the evening loudly insulting her and making himself an total asshole. She should have dumped him years ago, but didn't for their child's sake.

[latenight 15]

Are the single women she used to play with still in the area? Does she still talk/hang out with them? If so, you may have a bit of an advantage - assuming that your gf hasn't spoken to them about her negative feelings towards swinging.

 

It may be a long road, but if you two are sure this is what you want to try and are willing to put in the time/effort/potential disappointment to try to experience it, go for it! Just make sure you've built up enough openness of communication so that if one or both of you start to feel frustrated, regret, or any other negative emotion you can get it out IMMEDIATELY and not let it fester. If she felt forced once by an ex, there's no way you want to compound that by making her feel like you will be horribly disappointed if she changes her mind in the future.

 

Good luck with your journey!

Her friends in the LS are all married. IDK if she has ever spoken to them about playing individually or not. Rest assured that I will NOT try to force her into anything, nor will I be disappointed if she doesn't ever want to try the swinging again. Our relationship is the most important thing in the world to both of us, and we are in complete agreement that whatever we do will not be allowed to jeopardize it.

[Chicup 41]

 

Latenight you have inadvertently stumbled into new swinger cliche territory. The swinger sites are FULL of couples who are only looking for FMF. Its easy to see why this is, it keeps the man in his comfort zone, it keeps some women in a comfort zone as well. You may find your third, but usually its not from inside swinging but outside.

[km34 672]

Her friends in the LS are all married. IDK if she has ever spoken to them about playing individually or not. Rest assured that I will NOT try to force her into anything, nor will I be disappointed if she doesn't ever want to try the swinging again. Our relationship is the most important thing in the world to both of us, and we are in complete agreement that whatever we do will not be allowed to jeopardize it.

 

Ah, I have to agree with other posters about playing separate - we generally only do it with couples we have played with together OR who are also willing to kind of "reciprocate" so my hubby gets a FMF, too. The only time I've played without him other than that have been with single guys.

 

I also wasn't saying that you would actually pressure her. It is just really easy to get excited about something and not realize that the other person isn't quite as excited as you are but doesn't want to bring you down. It's happened with us (not related to swinging, but in other aspects of life), and it can be really stressful.

[latenight 15]

 

Latenight you have inadvertently stumbled into new swinger cliche territory. The swinger sites are FULL of couples who are only looking for FMF. Its easy to see why this is, it keeps the man in his comfort zone, it keeps some women in a comfort zone as well. You may find your third, but usually its not from inside swinging but outside.

Chicup, this begs the question , why are there so few single girls in the LS and so many single guys?

[latenight 15]

Ah, I have to agree with other posters about playing separate - we generally only do it with couples we have played with together OR who are also willing to kind of "reciprocate" so my hubby gets a FMF, too. The only time I've played without him other than that have been with single guys.

 

I also wasn't saying that you would actually pressure her. It is just really easy to get excited about something and not realize that the other person isn't quite as excited as you are but doesn't want to bring you down. It's happened with us (not related to swinging, but in other aspects of life), and it can be really stressful.

Thank you, km34. This is a good point and something I will have to guard against.

[VegasLee 1,486]

Because single women don't need you or us.

They can get anything they want.

Most will have little to no use for a couple.

The ones that do mostly just want the women.

 

You as a male don't have anything to offer that she cannot get without your wife attached to you.

[Chicup 41]

Chicup, this begs the question , why are there so few single girls in the LS and so many single guys?

 

There is a long explanation for this involving the male vrs female mind, but when it comes down to it, how many single women need to use the internet to find casual sex?

 

If my wife were a single and just wanted to get laid, she could ANY night with a trip down to the local meat market. Why would she go to the lengths of a swingers site?

[sunbuckus 3,567]

After visiting this site for a few days, I'm beginning to think that maybe swinging, per se , isn't for us, but certain aspects are. My GF who is a former swinger isn't into returning to the LS, and I have to admit that some of the practices are outside of my comfort zone. We talked about it again last night and we agree that what we are BOTH interested in is girl on girl play . GF says that this was the only thing she found attractive during her swinging experiences. She had very little fun fucking other men, but liked having sex with her female playmates. I'm not against her fucking other men, but I'm also more interested in having a FMF threesome. Is this something that the LS could accomodate? Are there single females or married ladies who play alone , who would be interested?

 

As Julie pointed out, girl/girl (just the girls playing, no play what so ever for any male present) is different from FMF (emphasis on the male getting the majority of the attention/play) or FFM (emphasis on one or both of the females getting the attention, NOT the male). This is something you and your girlfriend need to clarify in what both of you want and comfortable with. And as Chicup has pointed out, you two are now in a large group of "swingers" only interested in adding another female which is a very tough sell for single women or women who play separately from their partner. Yes, there are females out there but considering only the supply and demand (little supply of single females and high demand of lots of couples) of this issue, it is an uphill battle. Another issue is the reason why you two go searching for g/g, FMF, or FFM. I'm glad you elaborated in your post about why your girlfriend is reluctant/refuses to swap with another man. Mostly, when we see couples only searching for another woman, it is because the male partner of a couple doesn't want to see their female partner with another male...and that usually does not sit well with many swinger couples. However, I wanted to point this out because even though it's not the reason why you two seek g/g, FMF, or FFM, I think most couples will assume that is your reason and will stay away. Another reason why you need to clarify which play you both are comfortable with is if she is comfortable seeing you with another woman. If she only wants g/g, you are most likely not going to be able to watch because the other female (unless a swinger) will not want an audience. Usually, the advice turns to being more open to couple swapping so that you can build upon knowing other couples and seeing if they are open to separate play and doing g/g, FMF, or FFM in the future with you. But you explained why this isn't possible so I will move on....

 

Another thing I wanted to point out was that she probably didn't like swapping with another male because her ex-husband was controlling her in who she played with and how they played. She might be more willing in the future if she had the ability to call all of the shots. You let her lead in everything related to swinging (technically, you should do this anyways since she is the one most uncomfortable about doing anything in regards to swinging--and you should move at the pace of the slowest/most uncomfortable person in the relationship). If she had the opportunity to experience swinging in a positive light where she isn't controlled, demeaned, insulted, etc. then maybe she can also heal from her previous relationship wounds.

 

But all of the above is only to answer your questions. I agree with Julie that swinging should not be anywhere in your radar at this moment since I read and responded to your very first post on SB. It's great to be curious and to learn but if you want to stay in your relationship with your girlfriend, you might have to give up this fantasy of trying swinging altogether. She may never want enter the LS again and you have to be okay with that. You might even have to stop looking at swinging websites if it bothers her or if the websites are just fueling your desire to want to swing. Lastly, I hope that you are allowing her to open up in her own time about how she feels and what she wants in regards to swinging. Let her determine the timeline on this one considering she is the one with the emotional damage in this field.

[latenight 15]

Sumbuckus, what you have elaborated on, I'm on board with 100%. I would rather not swing than cause her any anxiety of any kind. During our recent brouhaha with her loudmouth "friend", she really stressed out and I take some of the blame for that. In my ignorance and pride, I assumed that somebody was lying to me and patronizing me about her swinging activities, when, in fact, she was being retiscent because of her own issues and not trying to deceive me in any way. I feel guilty about that. If there is anything good that came from this episode, it has increased our communication level and has shown BOTH of us how much EACH of us matter to the other. Since last week, she has told me numerous times how much in love with me she is, and that no man can compare to me. Blush..... I also realize that I am totally smitten by her and want our relationship to develope into one of those "one of a kind", loves that will last forever. I understand why some of the posters call swinging the "icing on the cake'' of a good relationship, because it enhances what is already pretty awesome. I will only ever do what is comfortable to her and will either achieve or not achieve my fantasy, with her wholehearted assent and participation. In truth, It really must be OUR fantasy, for it to ever happen.

[latenight 15]

Vegaslee and Chicup, I get what you're saying, and fully reaize that the prime attraction for any single girl to play with us, would be my GF and not me.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Just because unicorns are rare does not mean they are unknown. Also, there are some couples out there who would be willing to go along with just girl on girl play while the guys watch or even possibly a husband who would be willing to sit back and watch his wife in a threesome. It's not common by any means but it's possible. The key is having good honest communication with the people you hook up with, make it very clear what you want and what is off limits and be willing to be rejected a lot before you make the right connection.

 

If you want this, when you're both ready for it, you can find it. It just won't be as easy as looking for a couple or single guy (single guys are easy to find). Best of luck to you.

 

If there is anything good that came from this episode, it has increased our communication level and has shown BOTH of us how much EACH of us matter to the other.

 

It makes me feel good to hear this.