Creepy vs. turn-on

[Guy1964 177]

Quote

I have found it typical of swingers to make it known that they are looking you over.

 

Some men can look me over from head to toe and it feels wonderful.

 

Other men do it in a way that makes my stomach turn.

 

I found this excellent post from a lady. I think we come to different situations to learn something. What do you think makes the difference? Why is one man checking out a woman creepy, and another is a turn-on?

[angelkin 1,326]

appreciation vs objectification

[losAmantes 318]

Stud vs dud.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Attitude and intention.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

There are men who like women and those who vaguely resent them for being gatekeepers between them and sex.

[DaggersNRoses 271]

Do I find him appealing? Mutual attraction makes the difference.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Do I find him appealing? Mutual attraction makes the difference.

 

I've encountered more than a couple of guys that upon first glance appeared HOT/attractive/etc. However, they then proceed to give me that "look" and then follow it by putting that look into words... and then all mutual attraction is gone.

[slevin 1,374]

I've encountered more than a couple of guys that upon first glance appeared HOT/attractive/etc. However, they then proceed to give me that "look" and then follow it by putting that look into words... and then all mutual attraction is gone.

 

Yeah I think creepy vs. turn-on is down to your interest level. It's hot until you're not interested anymore, then it's creepy. Just like those jokes about sexual harassment; the good looking guy she is interested in can grab her ass and that's ok. The guy she isn't interested in says hi and it's sexual harassment

[Guy1964 177]

appreciation vs objectification

 

There are men who like women and those who vaguely resent them for being gatekeepers between them and sex.

 

All interesting posts. I connected these. I had never thought of some men as resenting women for gatekeeping sex, but now that mauijanedoe says it, it's obvious. Looking at Angelkin's post, and the others, it sounds like men that are sucessful are those who play it cool and take the time to appreciate and engage the woman vs. going into a routine to get sex.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

slevin said:

Yeah I think creepy vs. turn-on is down to your interest level. It's hot until you're not interested anymore, then it's creepy. Just like those jokes about sexual harassment; the good looking guy she is interested in can grab her ass and that's ok. The guy she isn't interested in says hi and it's sexual harassment

 

Your post reminded me of the Sexual Harassment and You skit that I might have been introduced to on this very forum!

[Guy1964 177]

That is too funny. I came here, not necessarily looking for more sexual partners, but to increase my overall connection to my sexuality. I'm a professional and I interact with female attorneys all the time. Often, they, as you might imagine, make sexual jokes. I know I come off as stiff. I think part of it is that if I loosen up and start to reciprocate, I'll come off as "Creepy." That's never been a problem, that I know of, but I definitely don't want to be thought of that way. I've been thinking a lot about JustAskJulie's post that it's intention. I guess a guy comes off very differently if his attitude is just to be playful and if it's to "get" a woman. I like Anglekin's statement about how appreciation is important.

 

I think the biggest inhibiting factor for me isn't any sort of religious, or even social, guilt. It think it's the fear of coming off as "creepy," so I probably guard against that by being overly professional.

[michellebelle48 15]

That is too funny. I came here, not necessarily looking for more sexual partners, but to increase my overall connection to my sexuality. I'm a professional and I interact with female attorneys all the time. Often, they, as you might imagine, make sexual jokes. I know I come off as stiff. I think part of it is that if I loosen up and start to reciprocate, I'll come off as "Creepy." That's never been a problem, that I know of, but I definitely don't want to be thought of that way. I've been thinking a lot about JustAskJulie's post that it's intention. I guess a guy comes off very differently if his attitude is just to be playful and if it's to "get" a woman. I like Anglekin's statement about how appreciation is important.

 

I think the biggest inhibiting factor for me isn't any sort of religious, or even social, guilt. It think it's the fear of coming off as "creepy," so I probably guard against that by being overly professional.

 

Honestly you are better off playing it safe and doing / saying nothing. Many of the women I work with (I'm a woman) let the power of being able to accuse a guy go to their heads. I've seen it abused and these days it is quite easy to abuse. Many women see it as "pay back" for years past. Your best bet is let the woman pursue you and then ignore her / brush her off. There is a great deal of truth to that "you want what you can't have" cliche. I think its even more true for women because many have a sense of entitlement when it comes to men. A single woman contacted us on SLS saying how hot she thought my husband was and he'd be privileged to have her. She was attractive but after correspondence with her my husband wasn't interested. She nearly flipped out when we said no and sent us a lengthy email laced with profanity. Sorry honey but he's just not that into you and his gut was right!

 

As a swinger I can practically feel the thick aurora of men that want to jump my bones. This may sound kind of bad but I like to go for the guys that at least pretend I'm not there. I think a big part of swinging is the thrill of the chase. Men often make it too easy for us. Take single males for instance. We all know what they want to do hence they are at the bottom of the food chain. Single bisexual women are at the opposite end and earned the title "unicorn" for a reason. I really wish guys would up the game b/c I want to feel like I earned it!

[Chicup 42]

This may sound kind of bad but I like to go for the guys that at least pretend I'm not there.

 

Actually this isn't surprising because its found in normal dating too. Once I learned to ignore women rather than pursue them, my dating prospects as a young man increased dramatically. There are a lot of theories as to "why" this seems to be the case, and I won't delve into them in this thread.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

I'm one of those types that if a man ignores me then I think he's 100% not interested. I was never pursued by guys when I was younger so I take the nonchalant attitude as a measure of their non-attraction to me.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I'm one of those types that if a man ignores me then I think he's 100% not interested.

 

I don't know if it's a type, but the nonchalant approach doesn't work for me, either. There are a lot of men in the world and no reason to waste time or energy on any who don't express interest.

[Chicup 42]

If I had a dollar for everytime a woman said that....

 

It's not "ignoring" as in "you are not there". It's not focusing your attention on the woman you wish to approach, nor is it a set routine or something akin to that. Put in Discovery Channel terms (back when they did science) the male establishes his value and worth by not showing immediately his intentions of mating with a particular female. This sort of thing might manifest as speaking to her husband first for a while, complementing a woman you are not interested in while not complementing the one you are. Some of the "pickup artist" method would be to subtlety insult the woman you are interested in. Its called "negging". It's nothing overt like saying "hey wow you are ugly" it is more something like "you have such a unique nose". It keeps the woman guessing as to if the male is interested or not. It makes her want to prove to him she's "worthy". Instead of him pursuing her, she pursues him. If this sounds horribly clinical and wrong, it's because it is horribly clinical, the wrong is because it also seems manipulative, which it is, but its manipulative of normal psychological responses.

 

Every woman will for the most part say she would NEVER fall for this and is immune to it, hates it, is turned off by it etc. Only they aren't. When I sort of figured this for myself out (long before there was a pickup artist community and the like) I once brought this up as a conversation in a mixed group. The women of course told me they would never fall for that, etc. Then after one who told me she would never react to that sort of thing told me I was correct but she didn't want the other guys in the group to know it.

 

This is a rather humorous take on the subject. If some are offended by this idea, and they usually are, try to relax about it. We are all animals on the inside and react in certain ways. If you have never encountered this sort of behavior now you are aware.

 

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

That is too funny. I came here, not necessarily looking for more sexual partners, but to increase my overall connection to my sexuality. I'm a professional and I interact with female attorneys all the time. Often, they, as you might imagine, make sexual jokes. I know I come off as stiff. I think part of it is that if I loosen up and start to reciprocate, I'll come off as "Creepy." That's never been a problem, that I know of, but I definitely don't want to be thought of that way. I've been thinking a lot about JustAskJulie's post that it's intention. I guess a guy comes off very differently if his attitude is just to be playful and if it's to "get" a woman. I like Anglekin's statement about how appreciation is important.

 

I think the biggest inhibiting factor for me isn't any sort of religious, or even social, guilt. It think it's the fear of coming off as "creepy," so I probably guard against that by being overly professional.

 

When it comes to workplace, you are better off to avoid being sexual at all. Even if you don't come off as "creepy" you may come off as "sexual" (as in sexual harassment) to the wrong person. While many may react positively, all it takes is one. If the women are telling dirty jokes, it's ok to laugh, but it's not ok (as a guy) to tell the jokes yourself. If they are putting their hands on you (it's ok, as long as you are ok with it - if you aren't then women sexually harass also). You should keep your hands off your female co-workers, as a matter of course.

 

I'm one of those types that if a man ignores me then I think he's 100% not interested. I was never pursued by guys when I was younger so I take the nonchalant attitude as a measure of their non-attraction to me.

 

Ditto. If a guy does not appear to be interested, or appears to be interested in another woman (or even if he appears to be splitting his attention) I'll walk away. I'm not one to do the chase or "fight for it". It is or it isn't, you've got to let me know it IS or I'm out. That said, this is swinging, so a guy will always be splitting his attention to a degree (between his wife/date and whomever he might be interested in). However, if it appears that there's another woman (besides his wife) (or in the case of a couple we are attracted to another couple) that our target is also interested in (and vice versa) then I/we will step aside and let the other(s) step in. The only person I'm going to fight for me is my partner.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Quite interesting (and I'll check out the link later when the kids aren't around, just in case) but when I said ignoring, I truly meant ignoring. They won't approach me, won't talk to me, won't look at me, etc. If a guy talks to Mr. Sun first, I'm actually much more impressed with that approach than approaching me first and not being friendly to Mr. Sun. There was one couple that seemed interested but whenever the husband talked to me, he kept looking around and not really putting forth a lot of effort into the conversation. I was pretty turned off.

[michellebelle48 15]

JustAskJulie said:

When it comes to workplace, you are better off to avoid being sexual at all. Even if you don't come off as "creepy" you may come off as "sexual" (as in sexual harassment) to the wrong person. While many may react positively, all it takes is one. If the women are telling dirty jokes, it's ok to laugh, but it's not ok (as a guy) to tell the jokes yourself. If they are putting their hands on you (it's ok, as long as you are ok with it - if you aren't then women sexually harass also). You should keep your hands off your female co-workers, as a matter of course.

 

Ditto. If a guy does not appear to be interested, or appears to be interested in another woman (or even if he appears to be splitting his attention) I'll walk away. I'm not one to do the chase or "fight for it". It is or it isn't, you've got to let me know it IS or I'm out. That said, this is swinging, so a guy will always be splitting his attention to a degree (between his wife/date and whomever he might be interested in). However, if it appears that there's another woman (besides his wife) (or in the case of a couple we are attracted to another couple) that our target is also interested in (and vice versa) then I/we will step aside and let the other(s) step in. The only person I'm going to fight for me is my partner.

 

Honestly the question for the OP is does he value his honor? My husband will not let any woman touch him or make penis jokes around him at work. In fact he reported one woman to HR for it and she of coarse she only got a slap but I commended him for it. He stood up for men everywhere and that is a HUGE turn on for me. Don't let women get away with something you can't. That is how entitlement is propagated. It is like the guy that plays nice just to get some. It is pathetic if you ask me. Men are capable of so much more and that is what women want whether we say it or not.

 

I do have a problem with the second part Julie. I'm not a radical feminist but as a moderate one I think women need to step up and do some of the pursuing. It shows a man he is appreciated and that makes him more into it. Also I believe if a womans wants something she should take it! No playing games but thats me.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

I do have a problem with the second part Julie. I'm not a radical feminist but as a moderate one I think women need to step up and do some of the pursuing. It shows a man he is appreciated and that makes him more into it. Also I believe if a womans wants something she should take it! No playing games but thats me.

 

I'm sure Julie does her own share of pursuing other males while swinging. I think what she meant in this particular case was that if a potential playmate was splitting his attention between her and another woman (not his wife) then Julie would step aside and allow the potential playmate to place all of his attention on the other woman while she finds someone else who places more of their effort into one basket (woman) at a time.

 

There's a great thread somewhere around here (I wish I knew where because it is so much more eloquent than I) that talks exactly about what you're talking about. Everyone, men and women, enjoys being appreciated and pursued in some manner. However, men have it so hard when it comes to the pursuer versus pursued. There are women that like to be pursued. And there are women that like to do the pursuing. As a male in the LS, if you do the pursing, sometimes you can come off as being creepy or pushy. But if women like to be pursued, then you're either going to be successful or you're going to be the creepy/pushy type. If the male likes to be pursued then he might have less playtime because some women will not be the pursuer--perhaps for different reasons. For myself, I do not go pursuing a male in the LS unless he has first shown some attraction to me. This could possibly be because I act under the general assumption that the majority of men do not find me attractive. So, unless a male approaches me, draws me into conversation, and does some sort of complimenting or flirting, then I'll know. But even then, perhaps he's just being friendly. So, unless we've played before and he still shows interest in future play, then I'll do the pursuing. Other than that, it's in the male's court, for me.

 

As for Mr. Sun, he doesn't really do the pursuing because he is afraid of coming off as creepy/pushy. So he waits for the aggressive or direct approach from the female half to know if she's interested. This means, that the female/male half or both have to be aggressive in wanting to play with us. Yes, we probably should work on being more forward and be more of a pursuer; however, we are who we are today. Maybe in 10 years I can proudly say that we've grown from where we are now.

[Guy1964 177]

Such a great reply. Thank you, Sunbuckus. Those were good insights. Your husband sounds like me.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

michellebelle48 said:

Don't

I do have a problem with the second part Julie. I'm not a radical feminist but as a moderate one I think women need to step up and do some of the pursuing. It shows a man he is appreciated and that makes him more into it. Also I believe if a woman's wants something she should take it! No playing games but that's me.

I'm not against pursuing and I definitely will if I'm interested. But once I make interest known, if there's not reciprocity or if there's competition, I will move on. I don't see the point in fighting for someone. That just reminds me too much of hs when I'd say I was interested in a guy and the next thing I know a friend was chasing him. I've got my man at this point, I don't need to chase.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Chicup said:

 

 

Omg. Just watched this. Hilarious!

[slevin 1,374]

I'm not against pursuing and I definitely will if I'm interested. But once I make interest known, if there's not reciprocity or if there's competition, I will move on. I don't see the point in fighting for someone. That just reminds me too much of hs when I'd say I was interested in a guy and the next thing I know a friend us chasing him. I've got my man at this point, I don't need to chase.

 

Couldn't agree more. I'm not really interested in the chase, I am interested in enjoying time with people. I think even if I was single I wouldn't be too interested in the kind of chase that Chicup described, even if that is likely what works. I'd rather show my interest, have it reciprocated and enjoy the build up together from there. Far more fun IMO

[MrMarvin 268]

I just read this and the different view points. Here are my thoughts (which do not equate even to the proverbial "two cents):

 

1. I am a little puzzled how the workplace made its way into the thread. Sexual harassment is serious and it can take on all forms (same sex, man/woman, woman/man). My approach is just to leave the workplace sex free. Believe me, you are better off.

 

2. Within a lifestyle situation, things are obviously different. Everyone is there for a reason. However, I think it may be over simplistic to suggest there is a right or sure fire way to "secure what one wants." Attraction is highly complex and encompasses many factors and variables. In the end, what might "work" with one person may not with another. While my wife and I are still in our infancy in this journey, I already simply take the approach to just be me and not overanalyze it. If I have to resort to "tricks" or not act myself, that is not fun to me. If I come off as genuine and what is real for me, and a woman reacts to that, that is a woman I'd be interested pursuing more with.