I'm having an emotional relationship with the male half of a swinging couple

[MissB 15]

Let me start by saying I am not a swinger. I'll lay out this situation as clearly as I can so I can get honest opinions and advice.

 

I met a man online in Oct of 2011. We live a ten hour drive from one another and we have met in person twice. We talk everyday via IM, phone, text and webcam. He is married, and he and his wife are in the LS and have been for 7 years, they have been married for 15. She doesn't really know about me, I have called a few times on the weekends or in the evenings because he told me if I need him he wants me to be able to get in touch with him. I do make sure me calling at those times are infrequent. So, I have called and asked for him when she has answered the phone and she has never asked who I am, but he is honest with me about the fact that she does not know about what our relationship entails.

 

He and I talk about everything, fun stuff, sexual, everyday mundane, goals, dreams, and those deep secrets and things in life that happen that most people don't tell anyone. A few months ago as we were getting off the phone he said *wait* he wanted to tell me something. He told me he loved me, I was shocked, I never expected he would love me much less admit to it. I know he is committed to his wife and family.

 

The two times we have met in person we have cuddled and kissed, held hands and been very affectionate, but we have never had sex..of any kind. I honestly don't know if I would have sex with him knowing he is married, but then again he is a swinger and he has no problem with casual sex. The issue he says is he cannot have sex with me because it would not be *casual sex* or *just fucking* because he loves me and he knows he would make love to me, and he cannot right that in his head in regards to his marriage. I fully understand what he is saying, and I wouldn't pressure him into anything and quite honestly I enjoy having him in my life as a confidant and someone I love deeply.

 

So, after all that, is this cheating per se? From what he has told me, they enjoy casual sex with other couples, but they are both involved each time. They swing about once a month or so, and he says since he isn't having sex with me, that he is not cheating on his wife. We do talk about sexual things, fantasies, our likes and dislikes and we've talked about what we would like to do to one another.

 

So, is this out of bounds? Would this bother you if your spouse/partner had a relationship like this? Again, she knows I exist but she doesn't know how we met or the extent of our relationship. Where do I/we go from here? It was one thing when we pretended it was *only* a friendship, but now that we have admitted to our true feelings, does that make it cheating?

 

Ask any questions you have and I will answer them as clearly as possible.

 

Thank you for your time.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Yeah, it sounds like cheating, and it sounds like it's out of bounds.

 

I think you know that, but need to hear it from someone else.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

It would be cheating in our books.

[VegasLee 1,486]

As soon as you said "She doesn't really know about me" it made it cheating.

 

If it was not cheating there would no reason she would not know about you.

 

One of you need to become the responsible adult here and bring this to an end before others get hurt.

[PB&J 1,086]

It was cheating as soon as his wife wasn't aware of what was going on. Sex wouldn't make it more or less cheating; it's the emotional component that is the HUGE problem here. He says he loves you, and his wife doesn't know? How can that be anything but a betrayal of his wife? Either she knows everything, and is on board with it, or you have to cut it off.

 

Think: if this was your husband, how would you feel about it?

[km34 672]

Emotional cheating can be more damaging to a relationship than sexual cheating, and that is exactly what is going on here. It is easier to justify a one-time "I got caught up in the moment when someone desired me" kind of thing, but this has been MONTHS of him going behind his wife's back and willfully hiding something from her.

 

Put yourself in her shoes. She (probably) thinks she has this open, honest relationship full of awesome communication that allows them to have fun with others without causing issues. How is it going to feel when she finds out he has been hiding love for another woman?

[Lionheart72 2,190]

So, is this out of bounds?

 

Yes!

 

Would this bother you if your spouse/partner had a relationship like this?

 

Hell, yes!!

 

Where do I/we go from here?

 

Divorce court or Hell.

 

It was one thing when we pretended it was *only* a friendship, but now that we have admitted to our true feelings, does that make it cheating?

 

No, it wasn't something different when you pretended it was only a friendship. It was cheating then and it is cheating now.

[junglecouple 127]

I'm surprised you even question the situation after being assured that HIS WIFE doesn't know about it. THAT IS NOT swinging, just plain old fashion CHEATING.

 

How would you feel in HER place?

 

Go find a GOOD guy, you don't need someone else's cheater.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Let us say that you are married (and whether you swing or not is irrelevant, because we're not talking about swapping partners for a night of casual sex) and you discover that, for almost two years, your husband has been having a relationship with another woman and hasn't told you about it. Are you any less hurt that they've only seen each other twice in the flesh? How do you feel that all those goals and dreams that your husband could have been sharing with you were outsourced to another woman? Do you tell yourself that it was only really cheating from the day he told that other woman that he loved her?

 

Swingers share their bodies with others, sometimes, but we are generally just as protective of the emotional ties in our relationship as any vanilla couple and maybe even more rigid about secrecy and lies.

 

So, yeah, what the two of you have been doing is most definitely not okay.

[MissB 15]

Thank you all for your advice and perspectives. I feel like an idiot. I find myself thinking "how did I get here?". I sent him a text asking him to call when he had time. I'll do the right thing and let him know we can't *see* one another anymore.

 

I'm sure I sound pathetic, but my heart hurts. I've shared more with him about myself than I've ever shared with anyone else and I will miss him. I never intended to interfere in anyone's marriage, I feel horrible for his wife.

 

I suppose I justified it because we weren't having sex, but I know the emotional part would also be painful if she found out, so I have to stop it before she finds out. I hope she never knows what has happened.

 

I was honestly hoping that because they are swingers that this type of relationship would be ok, it would be seen as acceptable, but I think that feeling in my gut the past few months knew the truth. It is so very painful, but it's better for me to have the pain than his wife. She doesn't deserve this.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I'm sure I sound pathetic, but my heart hurts. I've shared more with him about myself than I've ever shared with anyone else and I will miss him. I never intended to interfere in anyone's marriage, I feel horrible for his wife.

 

I suspect many of us have been equally ill-advised in some of our choices, but that doesn't make the feelings any less real or painful. You have my sympathy for what you'll be going through as you disconnect from something that, even if it was wrong, meant a lot to you.

[Gordo 618]

Thank you all for your advice and perspectives. I feel like an idiot. I find myself thinking "how did I get here?". I sent him a text asking him to call when he had time. I'll do the right thing and let him know we can't *see* one another anymore.

 

I'm sure I sound pathetic, but my heart hurts. I've shared more with him about myself than I've ever shared with anyone else and I will miss him. I never intended to interfere in anyone's marriage, I feel horrible for his wife.

 

I suppose I justified it because we weren't having sex, but I know the emotional part would also be painful if she found out, so I have to stop it before she finds out. I hope she never knows what has happened.

 

I was honestly hoping that because they are swingers that this type of relationship would be ok, it would be seen as acceptable, but I think that feeling in my gut the past few months knew the truth. It is so very painful, but it's better for me to have the pain than his wife. She doesn't deserve this.

 

Bravo I think you're right on the money. You were headed for "the other woman" status and that seldom works out for the best.

[MissB 15]

I'm almost in a panic. He says he is going to tell his wife this weekend about me and how he feels, and then the following weekend he will fly out to see me. I keep trying to tell him he cannot blow up his marriage over us, that going to his wife after the fact will crush her and it isn't fair to do that to her. How do I get him to understand he cannot do this. It makes no sense and it doesn't matter that she 'swings' because the relationship I have with him is outside of those boundaries.

 

I told him not to come to my city and that I wouldn't meet with him but he is adamant that he will work it out with his wife and if she doesn't understand why he needs me, he may need to *reconsider* what makes him happy in life. I am NOT okay with this, and I don't want to be the reason her heart is broken.

 

What do I do?

[angelkin 1,326]

You can't stop him from making poor choices and you definitely shouldn't put yourself in the position of picking up the pieces if his wife tells him to hit the road. I think, given what you've shared here, you've told him how you feel about him telling his wife and now he needs to choose how to proceed. While you have been a contributor, he will be the reason her heart is broken if he tells her.

 

I am sorry you're in this situation.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I agree with angelkin. You can't control what he does or says but you can control whether you continue to be a part of this situation from here on out. I would advise you to cease any and all communication with him. Block his number, emails, everything so they don't get through to you. The bridge between you two should be burnt. If he chooses to burn the bridge with his wife, that's up to him.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

I agree with angelkin. You can't control what he does or says but you can control whether you continue to be a part of this situation from here on out. I would advise you to cease any and all communication with him. Block his number, emails, everything so they don't get through to you. The bridge between you two should be burnt. If he chooses to burn the bridge with his wife, that's up to him.

 

Seconded. Above all, don't meet with him. Stick to that, otherwise I fear trouble will follow. I'm sorry you're in this situation and I hope it works out for the best.

[Gordo 618]

It could be a ploy to get you to fold rather than feel responsible for breaking up the marriage.

 

I would tell him you no longer want to hear from him & if he shows up you will call the police and lay a complaint and will not in any way shape or form be responsible for him talking to his wife. As above I would change my email block his calls etc etc.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I agree with all the others above. Ignore him completely. Do not talk with him or meet him. He is trying to manipulate you. You don't want a man who treats you or his wife this way.

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. You're doing the right thing.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I'm almost in a panic. He says he is going to tell his wife this weekend about me and how he feels, and then the following weekend he will fly out to see me. I keep trying to tell him he cannot blow up his marriage over us, that going to his wife after the fact will crush her and it isn't fair to do that to her. How do I get him to understand he cannot do this. It makes no sense and it doesn't matter that she 'swings' because the relationship I have with him is outside of those boundaries.

 

I think it's a truism that affairs aren't often about the sex and that might be particularly true when swingers have surreptitious relationships. Anyway, it's often about wanting a different sort of life than the one you're having. You've called a halt to the relationship with this particular married man, but you haven't had any impact on his desire for a different life than the one he has, so...it kinda makes sense that he'll blow up his relationship in favor of some mass drama and upset, plus pain and anguish for his wife.

 

In other words, it may never have been about you, not the relationship and not his actions now, although he probably has himself convinced that it is.

 

You may just want to iterate your desire to not see him again, whether he tells his wife or not (and if you're wondering if maybe there might be a happily ever after, after all, somewhere down the line, the answer is that cheaters cheat and the least stable relationship is the one she or he cheated to get), and convince him that you mean it.

[JB 140]

Everyone has pretty much covered it. So I’ll leave you with our philosophy in a nutshell:

 

Cheating is not about sex, cheating is about dishonesty.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You can not control the reactions of others, you can only control your choices. Do not judge yourself too harshly. It sounds like this relationship developed over time. His wife evidently knows "about" you but does not know how involved things have become emotionally. That's where the lying exists and where the problem exists. It's not your fault. The only real mistake you made was continuing with him after he told you that his wife was not fully aware of your relationship.

 

As for where things stand now, is there any new news? Has he told his wife? If he chooses to do so, that is on him, not you. SO please don't feel guilty over it, or over what may become of their relationship because of his choices. Being honest about cheating is one of those areas that I have a really hard time with. On one hand I agree with you that it will only create more harm, on the other hand in the interest of trust and honesty, he should tell her.

[MissB 15]

As for where things stand now, is there any new news? Has he told his wife?

 

I called to let him know I couldn't be part of the relationship anymore and told him not to come, and that I wished to have no more contact with him. He said he is telling his wife this weekend and he would see me the following weekend. I have blocked him from email and phone etc. I am going to go away the next weekend so if he does show up I will not be home. Because as much as I'd like to say I could send him away, I'm afraid I would be weak if he showed up and I'd let him in and I cannot do that, I can't risk it.

 

So, I 'm walking away from him and it hurts. I know it's the right thing but that doesn't make it any less painful and I hate that I let it get this far. I promise I'm not a bad person. I never meant to be the other woman or cause his wife any pain.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

MissB, you're definitely doing the right thing. Stay strong in your resolve to not be a part of this situation any longer. I hope you have a good friend who can spend the weekend with you and help take your mind off the pain. I know it hurts a lot now but having anything further with this man will prolong and intensify the pain. Just remember, if he couldn't be honest and respectful to his wife, how much honesty and respectfulness could he have afforded you in the past or future?

 

I hope that all of this hasn't given you the wrong idea about swingers in general but I certainly wouldn't blame you if it has. My best wishes to you that the heartache doesn't last long.

[Tagurrit 18]

What is love to you? What makes you happy? I am single and I have three women in my life with whom I am sexual on a regular basis. I love each one. I live with two of them in different cities and visit the other one in one of those cities. I don't nor did I look for other woman to love I did however look for sex but in two cases it turned into love.

 

When I met the first one I told her I was a swinger, she was in the past but not now, and that I would not abandon her if I was sexual with another. I haven't.

 

The second knows about the first one as they are friends. When I added the third she knows about the other two. The first one doesn't want to hear about the other two. The second one doesn't want me to talk about the third one.

 

My point is that there are many shades of gray and many shades of "swinging" ranging from meeting couple to couple to a more polyamory approach as I have. There is no "right" or "wrong" BUT there is truth and not-truth but even that has shades. In my world everyone knows about the other but one woman doesn't want to hear a word about the others and one wants to know everything and the other goes back and forth. So "right" and "wrong" is up to you, him and the other her.

 

What are you willing to bear? What is she? Would you be able to share him if it comes to that? Will she? Will he add another (as I have)? Will you accept that? Will she? Is "love" forever or does it come and go? Is love the same as lust? Can lust change into love? Isn't love something that the more you give away the more you get? Or is that only for agape love and not eros love (look up the 3 kinds of love)? Where is that line? Is there a line there? Doesn't eros love turn into agape love in couples? Is exclusivity important to you? Will it be in 3 years?

 

See what I mean? There is no one paragraph “advice” that fits every situation. In the end it's what do you want and what will you accept. I love 3 women and I am happy and they are too or they are hiding it very well. Do I have problems (mostly with time per person)? Of course I do doesn't everyone in one way or the other. I give 100% of myself to each of them when I am with them. And I swing with the last one as well.

 

Good luck and don't let yourself be talked into anything by anyone, the only person that knows what is right for you is you.

[Gordo 618]

What is love to you? What makes you happy? I am single and I have three women in my life with whom I am sexual on a regular basis. I love each one. I live with two of them in different cities and visit the other one in one of those cities. I don't nor did I look for other woman to love I did however look for sex but in two cases it turned into love.

 

When I met the first one I told her I was a swinger, she was in the past but not now, and that I would not abandon her if I was sexual with another. I haven't.

 

The second knows about the first one as they are friends. When I added the third she knows about the other two. The first one doesn't want to hear about the other two. The second one doesn't want me to talk about the third one.

 

My point is that there are many shades of gray and many shades of "swinging" ranging from meeting couple to couple to a more polyamory approach as I have. There is no "right" or "wrong" BUT there is truth and not-truth but even that has shades. In my world everyone knows about the other but one woman doesn't want to hear a word about the others and one wants to know everything and the other goes back and forth. So "right" and "wrong" is up to you, him and the other her.

 

What are you willing to bear? What is she? Would you be able to share him if it comes to that? Will she? Will he add another (as I have)? Will you accept that? Will she? Is "love" forever or does it come and go? Is love the same as lust? Can lust change into love? Isn't love something that the more you give away the more you get? Or is that only for agape love and not eros love (look up the 3 kinds of love)? Where is that line? Is there a line there? Doesn't eros love turn into agape love in couples? Is exclusivity important to you? Will it be in 3 years?

 

See what I mean? There is no one paragraph “advice” that fits every situation. In the end it's what do you want and what will you accept. I love 3 women and I am happy and they are too or they are hiding it very well. Do I have problems (mostly with time per person)? Of course I do doesn't everyone in one way or the other. I give 100% of myself to each of them when I am with them. And I swing with the last one as well.

 

Good luck and don't let yourself be talked into anything by anyone, the only person that knows what is right for you is you.

 

Then again why walk into a war zone?

[Tagurrit 18]

All I'll say is some people are combat photographers, some are priests. Can you say either is right or wrong? Isn't that what making choices is all about? Who am I to say what's right for someone else? If no one made mistakes no one would learn anything. My experience is that the worst things have an unexpected positive impact and the best things an unexpected negative impact. Read stories about lottery winners as an example.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Who am I to say what's right for someone else? If no one made mistakes no one would learn anything.

Everyone doesn't have to make the same mistake though. It's called "learning from the mistakes of others". Almost all of us have seen the impact on innocent lives when someone decides to help destroy a relationship without any thought for those that will be affected. We would be negligent if we didn't share what we've learned from the mistakes of others (and possibly our own).

 

My experience is that the worst things have an unexpected positive impact and the best things an unexpected negative impact. Read stories about lottery winners as an example.

 

Yes, there are usually exceptions in the predicted outcomes of events. That doesn't mean you should count on those exceptions though. Using that as my guide, I might decide that it would be a good thing to take a car with bald tires down the interstate at 90mph in a driving rainstorm, because instead of hydroplaning across the median into an oncoming van full of kids, or over a cliff, something "good" might happen.

[Tagurrit 18]

Of course you choose to walk away. You learned that for you walking away is/was right. She is trying a come to terms with what is happening to her. You want to be a parent to her and have her avoid a situation that you have learned can be painful BUT she has her own journey. She doesn't have to continue past any arbitrary point SHE chooses. She can make a decision at any time to take whatever action she needs to do. I understand your advice isn't "wrong" in the sense that in most situations she's most likely to get hurt further but do you know for an absolute that that's what will happen? I don't and I can't see that you do either. Odds are you're right but it's her decision. All we can do is say what we feel and think about it. If you'll read the replies no one says, "go for it". Well I am that voice. If everyone was telling her to go for it I'd probably be saying the same things you are. It's called "balance". This site is about swinging and not everyone swings the same way. Who am I to tell anyone what's the right way? Maybe she'll wind up in a polyamorous relationship that gives her exactly what she needs and wants. That's why I started my letter with, what do you want and what makes you happy. Oh and everyone one of us winds up as worm food. No one gets out of here alive.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Tagurrit, it's not really a matter of what different ways there are to swing or that they could be in a poly relationship. The reason why the overwhelming majority of us is telling MissB to steer clear is because of the following:

 

She doesn't really know about me...but he is honest with me about the fact that she does not know about what our relationship entails.

 

Again, she knows I exist but she doesn't know how we met or the extent of our relationship.

 

The most successful swinging and poly relationships we know of have an underlying foundation that is built on honesty between all parties, respect, communication, and trust. Everyone is on the same page and everyone knows what is going on. In MissB's situation, the wife is in the dark about the relationship between MissB and the husband. Do you really think that is healthy for the husband and wife's relationship? Considering that the husband and wife only participated in swing activities together, how would she react that he has been having an emotional attachment to another woman on the side, with her not involved in any way at all?

 

Let's play out the options if MissB stuck around.

 

1. The husband tells the wife and she's hurt and upset. She and the husband work on their relationship but the relationship between the husband and MissB has to end.

 

2. The husband tells the wife and she's hurt and upset. She and the husband don't work on their relationship and get a divorce soon or later. The husband runs to MissB for comfort and a) the new relationship can continue but she's always considered as the other woman. b) the new relationship fails.

 

3. The husband tells the wife and she's hurt and upset. She and the husband work on their relationship but he continues to see MissB on the side without the wife's approval: the wife, the husband, MissB...someone or all get hurt in the end.

 

4. The husband tells the wife and she's hurt and upset. They give a go to try to make the relationship poly but there is always that lurking thought between both women that the husband was willing and able to go behind the wife's back and hide an emotional relationship. This is not a stable foundation for a poly relationship.

 

5. The husband doesn't tell the wife. a)MissB continues the relationship with the husband, the relationship will be found out one way or another and the other previously given possibilities can be played out. b)MissB doesn't continue the relationship with the husband. The husband can either keep the emotional affair to himself or he tells alls.

 

As far as I see it, the odds are that if MissB decided/decides to continue this relationship with the husband, it doesn't fare well for the health of it being a stable relationship. The key part to everything is the husband, who isn't truthful, who isn't trustful, and who isn't respectful of anyone else involved except for himself. Unless he learns from his mistakes and changes the way he conducts himself and the way he is involved in a relationship, he is the weakest link and those connected to him will suffer from his dishonesty.

 

She is trying a come to terms with what is happening to her. You want to be a parent to her and have her avoid a situation that you have learned can be painful BUT she has her own journey.

 

Yes, she has a choice and she is the one who will ultimately make it. All we did was give her advice. She's her own person and can choose to follow advice or not. I understand that you were playing Devil's Advocate but it seemed very convoluted and your personal situation is different. All of the women that you are in relationships with know about each other and might even be friends. According to MissB, the wife knows of MissB's existence but knows nothing about how they have a personal relationship. For the wife, she probably thinks MissB is a coworker asking about a presentation that will be given the next day.

 

If the husband and wife had previous discussions about poly relationships and were open to it, only then can I see this situation possibly working out for everyone. However, seeing as the husband kept this quiet from his wife, this doesn't seem likely. And for MissB, she probably has limited knowledge about the swing LS and much less about polyamorous relationships. Chances are likely that she might not be ready for such a relationship, either.

 

I, for one, think MissB did the courageous thing because not only did she do right thing for herself and this other couple but in doing so, it inflicted a lot of pain...it's not easy doing the right thing when it causes deep, emotional turmoil. She could have stayed in there, hanging on hope that everything would turn out for the best; that everyone would be friends and lovers...but truth of the matter is that all of this still began with lying and dishonesty and she would have only been prolonging/postponing the pain.

[latin2012 22]

I don't know guys, show of hands how many think this guy is not into LS but is a cheater. sounds suspicious about "everyone" else being casual sex but you would be "special". I would ask him where they like to swing at. If a club I would ask if I could go check it out when they are there, wait for the excuses.

[Firedancr41 17]

I called to let him know I couldn't be part of the relationship anymore and told him not to come, and that I wished to have no more contact with him. He said he is telling his wife this weekend and he would see me the following weekend. I have blocked him from email and phone etc. I am going to go away the next weekend so if he does show up I will not be home. Because as much as I'd like to say I could send him away, I'm afraid I would be weak if he showed up and I'd let him in and I cannot do that, I can't risk it.

 

So, I 'm walking away from him and it hurts. I know it's the right thing but that doesn't make it any less painful and I hate that I let it get this far. I promise I'm not a bad person. I never meant to be the other woman or cause his wife any pain.

 

How are u doing missB???

[MissB 15]

How are u doing missB???

 

It's been a tough go of it. He did show up at my place, but I was away with a friend. He left me a four page letter telling me how he feels about me and it was absolutely heartbreaking to read. I haven't changed my mind and I haven't contacted him. From what he said in the letter his wife is leaving him and I hate that I had a part in that. The self-loathing is overwhelming at this point. I'm complicit in breaking up a marriage and family, not sure what to do with that.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I'm sorry you are feeling this way. I don't want to deny you your feelings of hurt and anger, but I think directing them at yourself is misguided.

 

It's not you, it's him. Although you are a special and amazing person, you were truly not the cause. He could have developed this connection with anyone he met online. He is the one choosing to leave his family, it really has very little to do with you. You didn't tell him to leave, you didn't tell him he was the only one for you, or that you would be with him if he left. He wanted out, he's using you as an excuse, making you the "evil other woman" You are not. He told you he was a swinger and his involvement with you was permissible. From the story you've told I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty.

 

You are doing the right thing, and it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong. I hope you'll give yourself a pep talk and get out and start having fun again. I'm sure you'll meet someone great who isn't a cheater.