Encouraging the lifestyle? Do you? Should we?

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

We have vanilla friends who know about our swinging adventures. The wife is my best friend. She would very much like to have sexual adventures. Her husband is a nice guy, not judgmental, but pretty uptight.

 

We've been friends for about 16 years. I told her 2 years ago that we swing (and she told her husband which is fine). We spend a lot of time with them and have traveled with them in the past. They've met people we know through swinging.

 

They wanted to go to a hotel NYE party with us, but I told them it wasn't an environment for people just looking or people new to the scene. I did tell them we would take them to the club sometime if they wanted. They haven't said anything more about that and I haven't offered again.

 

We're going to Desire this fall and they were thinking about going (it's sold out though).

 

My husband says I shouldn't tell them that Desire is great or that we have a good time swinging because he feels if they got into it and things went south in their relationship it would be partly our fault.

 

We would never play with them.

 

My feeling is that I like having someone to talk to and I shouldn't have to censor myself with my friend when she asks me questions. I don't feel like I'm actively encouraging them to get involved, but I do really love swinging so I can't just say, "Don't do it!" like my husband say I should.

 

Have you ever been in this situation? Do you think I should stop talking to my friend about anything swing related?

[two4youinswva 3,068]

We (obviously) don't know the dynamics of this couple's relationship, so that should be considered with any advice I give.

 

I tend to agree with your husband. Maybe it's a Guy Code thing or something, but here's my thoughts: You talk about your wild times with her, which she likes and would enjoy trying herself. She shares her desire with her husband, who appears to be uninterested in swinging. After a time, she gets frustrated that her best friend is having so much fun, tells her about it, and she can't join the fun. Her husband starts feeling pressure (probably self-imposed) to go along. Or maybe he feels a little less than adequate after all these years because he isn't into doing what you guys are doing and his wife wants to do.

 

So, that could create strain in a relationship when it isn't necessary. The Guy Code part of this? Don't create a hassle for one of your bros whenever you can avoid it.

 

So, yeah, I see where he's coming from. I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts from all angles.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

That's a toughie, funcouple. We haven't been in that situation nor do I see ourselves in that sort of situation since we don't really share with friends that we swing. At first, my opinion was that any problems or complications that they have between them in regards to communication, unfulfilled fantasies, etc. is between them. If they can't handle the rough tides of marriage in terms of not being able to do something because the other partner isn't comfortable with it then the relationship itself might be on fragile ground anyway. However, I can see two4you's side as well. Any girl talk you have can exacerbate the situation so if you want to have a clear conscious, perhaps it's best to steer on the safe side and keep quiet about your fun outings.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Do you share everything about swinging or just the adventures? I suppose if one of my friends expressed an interest, I'd have a long talk with her, filled with cautionary advice, and then point them here.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Yes, I share the good and bad and a lot of caution. I've pointed them here and offered them Julie's book. I know they don't read this board though, b/c she doesn't listen to my advice!

[exploringRM 305]

I was having a conversation with a l/s friend tonight at a vanilla party. We are in a vanilla wine group and there is another couple we feel are on the edge, could be interested in l/s. But I told her..I'm not one to pull someone over the fence.. if asked I would put the information out there and let them jump over the fence on their own. Though we did discuss (all three couples) heading to a local strip club on night...could get interesting! So I guess my answer is don't talk someone into something but let them make their own decisions.

[asncpl 729]

Sounds like you are better friends with the wife than the husband? Is your husband good friend with the other husband? Tho' i don't know anything about Guy Code, I am in general agreement with two4you. We know a vanilla couple through some other vanilla friends. We enjoy hanging out with them because I get along with the gal and my husband gets along with the guy. We only knew them two years when I told her that we swing. My husband said I shouldn't have said anything. They expressed an interest and we invited them to a swinger pool party so they could see what nudity felt like but told them they had to leave before anything sexual happened. That's as far as we "showed" them the l/s. They eventually tried a club we recommended. Anyway, here is my point: They had problems with the l/s from the getgo, and I heard one version of events from her and my husband got an earful of another version from her husband. They eventually got counseling and also got out of the l/s. In hindsight, I should've given them Julie's book and left it. Luckily we remain friends. I completely understand the need for swinger friends who understand the l/s so we can do our girl talk, but if your husband is right and he is close to your girlfriend's husband, you two may be in the unwanted middle of a troubled relationship.

[JandKinBoise 858]

As was mentioned in another post today, once we are in the l/s we tend to think others are more open minded than they really are. I think one of the most frustrating things for my wife is keeping this quiet. She hangs out with a couple girls who are single and playing the field. They will taunt her about how she has only been with one man in her life and it takes some discipline for her to smile and say oh well. One of them joined us for an FFM shortly after her divorce. Even then she was kept in the dark about our lifestyle and was allowed to assume she had seduced us. Swinging still carried a stigma and is less accepted than gay or bisexual. It takes a unique dynamic in a couple to do this and as you know, it's kinda rare. I bet her husband is getting freaked out by this and is feeling inadequate.

For you gals out there that are curious, here is the guy code from the urban dictionary. One of many versions I'm sure. Urban Dictionary: Guy code

[Chicup 41]

Give them info as requested.

Let them make the first move WITHOUT YOU.

 

This is their journey and since you already stated you wouldn't play with them, you being there can only lead to issues. If they decide to do it, you don't want to be there in case there is drama etc as the human mind, being what it is, will end up blaming you for their failures most likely.

 

"We never would have done this if it weren't for X"

[VegasLee 1,486]

I never Encourage someone to get into this Lifestyle.

 

Often I do just the opposite and let people know they should not do this.

 

99.99% of the world have no business even thinking about this hobby/Lifestyle. Their relationships won't handle it.

 

I don't want to be connected or feel responsible for the drama or break-up of others relationships and I also don't want other laying that on me.

[Gordo 618]

I tend to agree with two4you on a general note that I would not want to be injecting anything into a relationship that is polarized on a subject. Here you have one person who gets a "what a great time we had" messages and one person who isn't interested. That can't help but grate in their relationship. I would definitely censor my conversation. Not ignore her questions but really dumb down the answers.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Thanks all for the excellent advice.

[Sensualbicouple 122]

I haven't come across this myself in the sense that a vanilla friend wants to explore the lifestyle. But I would be more inclined to lead them to do their own research and make up their minds and then let them take the plunge on their own. I did have a vanilla friend once ask if her and her husband could accompany us to a club (not for play) but to check it out for themselves. I felt honoured to be asked but at the same time was vigilant of the fact that if they didn't like it, we would feel we were to blame for them being subjected to such a place they felt so in comfortable in. The again, we are all adults and can make up our own minds. And I still would have explained the pros and cons of the lifestyle, erring more towards talking them out of it and doing it for themselves rather than us in a sense holding their hand throughout the whole process. Each to their own, most of us have taken the plunge on our own.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I think that unless you see something in their relationship that tells you it would definitely not work for them, then you don't need to say "don't do it". I think so long as you are just sharing your own experiences and answering their questions as they come up, then it's their choice to swing and you aren't pressuring them.

 

I have a SF friend that I'm in a similar situation with... she knows and she's at time expressed and interest in going to a club with us, but I don't push. I tell her bits and pieces and she knows about this site. She knows she can come to me if she's ever really interested and I'll be honest. Would I love to have her jump in to have her as a close friends who also plays? Hell yeah. But, I can't push my desires on her.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

I think I would tell he just what you have told us. You want to b e candid with her but there are concerns and doing anything that would damage their relationship or your with her is not something you want to have happen. The life style is not for everyone, just because you are successful with it does not mean she will be or that she will enjoy it.

[Tagurrit 18]

I started swinging in 1967 with my first wife. Our close friends were our first experience. It went OK and although our lives have diverged we remained friends while we were in close contact. My wife and I parted ways in 1975 but it had nothing to do with swinging and in fact swinging helped us through our bad times. My second wife and I also started with close friends. My wife passed away and I am still friends with the other wife although she and her husband are divorced. To cut to the chase swinging, in and of itself, has not ended any of my relationships nor any of my friends and acquaintances relationships nor any of our personal non-swinging relationships. Until recently my only swinging experiences were with close friends. Jealousy is the only thing I can see that effects relationships negatively and jealously is about the fear of loss. A couple that has been married a long time has probably dealt with the jealously issue sometime before now. In my opinion a male who evidences no interest in swinging is an oddity. Maybe he has a low sex drive. Maybe he's unimaginative. Maybe he's scared. But I can't see that swinging would break apart a long term marriage by itself. I think lying or hiding how you feel wouldn't serve you or them. Why? If they are your friends then they'd accept you as you are and if they try it it's on them to find their own balance just as we are all responsible for our lives. My advice, and it's worth every penny you paid for it, is not to change a thing. Keep on as you always have and stop worrying, they are adults and they'll find their way. Good luck and be well..

[Chicup 41]

On the flip side I know a couple that has greatly damaged one relationship and destroyed another trying to get vanilla friends to swing. In both cases the other wife wanted to, the husbands did not.

[MapleCpl 67]

We agree with you Chicup. We have have tried swinging with friends Vanilla couples, and found that in most cases the wives are ready and willing to try, but the husbands are the deal breakers.

Not sure why, in most cases men are the ones that sex, but here the men are the ones that have second thoughts.

[Chicup 41]

I think that for some men, they are ok if they suggest it but have a lot of self esteem issues if their wife does. Males are quite insecure at the heart of it.

[Tagurrit 18]

Well not my experience but I am older than most if not all of you. Women were much more repressed in the 50's 60's than today. BUT men are still men as far as I can tell. I've seen more jealously issues at parties with the men but I know plenty of jealous women. I don't think I said to try and initiate all your vanilla friends into the LS what I said was we're all adults and let everyone make up their own minds. I have a close friend who let me know he was a swinger long before I told him I was. I am very circumspect so maybe that's why I've never had problems with friends. I understand anyone who does not want to swing with good friends but in my case it happened several times and maybe it was the strip poker and case of champagne and not my winning personality that allowed it to happen. Or maybe it's the fact my wife and I enjoyed MFM 3-somes more than MFMF 4-somes.

[DownunderFun 19]

We have vanilla friends that we travel with to lifestyle resorts. They love the nudity and the sexual vibe. We really enjoy them knowing and never judging us, but they have never asked us about what we do, which is fine. I don't divulge information (don't kiss and tell) but happy to answer questions about it. We also have a couple of other friends that know and are happy to tell them stuff if asked. Don't tell them not to do it, they are grown adults and can make educated and well informed decisions themselves. The only issue you may face if they come to a resort with you is that you might hit it off with another couple and they get jealous. Don't push them, let them dip their toe in if curious or jump right in if keen. Number one tough, be a friend.

[Gordo 618]

We have vanilla friends that we travel with to lifestyle resorts. They love the nudity and the sexual vibe. We really enjoy them knowing and never judging us, but they have never asked us about what we do, which is fine. I don't divulge information (don't kiss and tell) but happy to answer questions about it. We also have a couple of other friends that know and are happy to tell them stuff if asked. Don't tell them not to do it, they are grown adults and can make educated and well informed decisions themselves. The only issue you may face if they come to a resort with you is that you might hit it off with another couple and they get jealous. Don't push them, let them dip their toe in if curious or jump right in if keen. Number one tough, be a friend.

 

The issue here is a curious wife and a not wanting to husband. That is different than a curious couple and should be handled differently. In this case I would advise "hands off"

[Tagurrit 18]

I'm surprised by this post. We're not talking children or young adults here we're talking about adults and as such it's not anybodies business what the husband wants and what the wife wants. Either they are attracted to the LS or they are not. If one is and the other isn't then they will make the decisions that will enable them to continue in a relationship or not. It can only go one of two ways. Either they do or they don't. She can leave him if it's important enough to her or he can leave her if she does it behind his back. Or not. I've made a commitment not to swing with a partner who didn't want to and I've offered not to with another. But I found out that for myself I need the space to be able to if I wish even though I've only been in a swinging situation maybe 15 times since 1967. At this point I wouldn't offer not to again. It's part of who I am, not a large part but an important part. Important because of the freedom it gives me. I never cheat so why make life hard on myself at this late stage? If I choose not to then at least I'm choosing.