A single guy is hitting on your wife at a bar... what do you owe him?

[Gordo 618]

MauiJaneDoe was going to raise this for a thread and I thank her for her kind permission to do it instead.

 

So this got raised on another thread. The OP had a fantasy of taking his wife to a bar and sitting back and watching her get hit on by guys.

 

Posted by alwayscurious:

So here is what I have come up with and would like to bounce it off of the forum here because there are a lot of very helpful experienced people here.

 

Our plan was to go out together but enter a bar or night club type place separately...we pretend we don't know each other or even talk or anything.....she gets to openly accept any flirting, dancing, etc. while I sit back and enjoy the show.

 

Nothing more than dancing, kissing, or groping is allowed and she is not to give out her number.

 

Her story would be along the lines of the desperate, neglected, lonely house wife, etc...

 

At first I was thinking that's kinda messed up to do (to the other guy) but then again that stuff happens all the time. I was single once and it happened to me more than once. And I think it is kind of a victimless crime they hang out flirt dance whatever then she has to go home.

 

Anyone else done something like this or have any thoughts any input either way would be appreciated

 

Now obviously he has given it some thought in how fair is it to the other guy and a lot of posters said he owed it to the guy to tell him what the situation really was. A lot of posters seemed to think that the poor guy was a "victim" in this scenario.

 

Taking the devil's advocate position here you have a single (maybe married cheating) guy hitting on a married woman in the bar and let's be honest he's not there to sell her girl scout cookies. In general he's looking for NSA sex and married women with marital problems are ideal for that. He (in my view) is also looking for a opportunity to exploit a weakness or current problem in someones marriage for his own selfish reasons. Frankly he doesn't give a shit that he is (supposedly) shitting on the husband in the process. Even if the wife is shitting on hubby that doesn't excuse him exploiting it.

 

In my mind this is no victim no matter what anyone is doing to him. If someone takes advantage of his unethical behavior I have no qualms about that. Others still think it is dishonest.

 

How do the rest of you feel. Victim or deserves it!

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Well, geez, Gordo! When you put it that way, the guy does sound like a sleaze ball! There's too many variables though to take it one way. Is she wearing her wedding ring? Not all married couples wear wedding rings. Did he actually notice the ring (if there is any)? Is he really flirting or just making talk to be friendly/not be lonely? Maybe I'm being too naive but I don't think all guys at a bar are looking for NSA...some are there to get rip roaring drunk, pass out at the stool, and get a cab called for them. And some could be gay. Am I right?

 

It's all fun and games until someone isn't having fun anymore...and if it's the guy getting lied to, you're going to hope he doesn't have a Green Hulk lurking inside. To me, it's better to have a clear conscious and be honest and upfront from the beginning--whether he is or isn't a victim.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

How do the rest of you feel. Victim or Deserves it!

 

As one of the louder voices saying non-consensual play didn't fit within my ethics, no matter who was doing what, I have to say I can't answer one way or the other for the third party. On the one hand, nobody actually deserves non-consensual sexual play. On the other, I'm not sure a player is actually a victim. So, yeah, I think it's wrong, but I'm a little soft on whether there's a victim.

 

The reason I thought about starting a thread and then didn't was because I couldn't figure out a neutral way of framing my actual question, which was whether uninvolved third parties were responsible for not poaching if the faux or real cheating spouse was acting available. In my view, spouses/partners are responsible for respecting each other and that's where the responsibility stops, because nobody else has skin in that game. That said, I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell for my several affairs with married men.

[Gordo 618]

That said, I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell for my several affairs with married men.

 

I'll save you a seat

[Gordo 618]

Is she wearing her wedding ring? Not all married couples wear wedding rings. Did he actually notice the ring (if there is any)?

The ring thing definitely is a difference if she is not wearing a ring it usually shows in an untanned white band.

 

Not notice a ring, seriously checking for a ring is the third thing I look at

 

You know, right after the eyes and lips

[sunbuckus 3,569]

The ring thing definitely is a difference if she is not wearing ring it usually shows in an untanned white band.

 

Not notice a ring, seriously checking for a ring is the third thing I look at

 

You know right after the eyes and lips

 

Maybe he's so enchanted by the eyes and lips that he can't look anywhere else. :P

[exploringRM 305]

To me the idea seems high-schoolish/prankish. I would say the same about it even if it were a single with no intention of taking things further.

 

To say no one is getting hurt is just not right. At some point someone will.

[Chicup 42]

Kinda like those people who go to swing clubs to feel sexy but don't really want to swap

 

Now in this case it's robbing the thief so it is "ok" but it just seems like a silly thing to do and a desperate attempt at self affirmation (I'm still sexy, other guys want to fuck my wife so she's sexy).

 

The morality of the situation doesn't bother me. The situation itself does just feel, as exploring said, high-schoolish.

[Lionheart72 2,191]

Taking the devils advocate position here you have a single (maybe married cheating) guy hitting on a married woman in the bar and let's be honest he's not there to sell her girl scout cookies. In general he's looking for NSA sex and married women with marital problems are ideal for that. He (in my view) is also looking for a opportunity to exploit a weakness or current problem in someones marriage for his own selfish reasons. Frankly he doesn't give a shit that he is (supposedly) shitting on the husband in the process. Even if the wife is shitting on hubby that doesn't excuse him exploiting it.

 

In my mind this is no victim no matter what anyone is doing to him. If someone takes advantage of his unethical behavior I have no qualms about that. Others still think it is dishonest.

 

How do the rest of you feel. Victim or Deserves it!

 

It takes two to tango. If you have a married woman in a bar encouraging guys to hit on her, then guys hitting on her aren't necessarily engaging in unethical behavior. Now flirting with a guy is a far cry from being willing to have sex with a guy. If it were, I'd be a much happier man.

 

From my PoV, what is important is honesty. If you're honest about what you are doing and why, about what your goals are and what your limits are, then as long as we're all consenting adults and no one gets hurt I don't see an issue.

 

Therefore, the trouble I have with the scenario you quote is the inherent dishonesty of it. The "Her story would be along the lines of the desperate, neglected, lonely house wife, etc......." part. That part is a lie and an unnecessary one. The lady in question should just be honest... "Hey, I'm here to flirt, to dance and maybe grope a little. No, I can't go further or give you my number, my husband wouldn't approve." Why lie when the truth is just as titillating?

[Cancuple-he 37]

LMAO! This thread actually made me laugh a little...

 

Mrs. CC is a bartender, and a sexy as hell one at that, and she deals with guys hitting on her, on a daily basis. The ring thing, that previous posters have mentioned really bares no relevance since she has two hands full of them...

 

That said, most of her clientèle are drunk losers who go there to drink and escape their insignificant and boring lives... so not much for me to worry about in that respect, what-so-ever. In the end, Mrs. CC has a novel approach to dealing with "would be" suitors... her usual retort when faced with some unwanted attention is she'll flash her hands at the assailant and say something like, "you have some fairly large boots to fill from the man that gave me these", or something to that effect... but my favorite story is when her "tramp stamp" tattoo accidentally flashed, (it's not easily legible...), and one guy who thought rather highly of himself said, "what does your tatt say honey?" She just turned to him and said: "Happily married!"

 

On the flip side, she's also had some women hit on her as well!

[Gordo 618]

 

From my PoV, what is important is honesty. If you're honest about what you are doing and why, about what your goals are and what your limits are, then as long as we're all consenting adults and no one gets hurt I don't see an issue.

 

Why lie when the truth is just as titillating?

 

Some of the posters seemed to feel that the honesty issued should be extended to the point of telling the guy that "hey that's hubby sitting over there watching us".

 

The flirt, dance, grope line might get my attention but I think I (as a single guy) would move on if I knew any of the real reason.

 

It does seem a little high-schoolish but then again every party I've ever been to pretty much is the same...flirting, groping, innuendos & little cliques forming!! What's the point of going otherwise

[Gordo 618]

She just turned to him and said: "Happily married!"

 

Love it

[iexxxcpl 19]

The parts that bothers me are the husband watching from a distance and the unnecessary "story." Husband watching as a stranger seems creepy to me.

 

If the wife is wearing a ring the wife could easily explain or inform the guy that her husband gives her certain liberties and she enjoys meeting new people. The wife could use that same opportunity to set limits for what is allowed and what she's expecting. Guys may be out looking to get laid but it doesn't happen every time they're out and they are well aware of the fact. If it were me; I'd imagine I'd rather spend an evening flirting with a sexy lady knowing that's as far as it will go than drinking alone trying to find one to take home.

[M1F2KTJ 473]

We have done the going separately into the bar thing. It's exciting for me to watch guys hit on her. It's an ego boost for her. We aren't trying to disrespect anyone and neither of us are attracted to the type of guy who wants to "shit" on anyone. The cocky types are not our types. It was my idea that we would find a playmate if I wasn't sitting beside her and I was right. It was up to my wife to explain things to him. She would be honest with him and let him in on the "game". If she liked the guy and the guy was into playing she would point me out to him and ask him if he would like to meet me. If everything was o.k. she would signal me to come over. The three of us would talk about the situation. We have always gone out of town to do this. That way we don't run into anybody we know. We also don't feel comfortable inviting strangers into our house. In my opinion the scenario posted was on the negative side. I'm hoping that our approach is a more innocent and honest way to find a playmate. As far as the other guy goes if he is married and out cheating on his wife we feel that we are not worthy to be the judges of his decisions. What do you think?

[Gordo 618]

As far as the other guy goes if he is married and out cheating on his wife we feel that we are not worthy to be the judges of his decisions. What do you think?

 

 

 

I was OK with it till that part. We go to huge lengths to make sure we never get involved with anybody swinging & cheating so I would apply that to this situation also.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

It is not so much about what we owe him or he owes us, but what we owe ourselves. I personally don't think I owe a stranger anything or vice versa. BUT, I chose to give him respect and I expect the same from him if he expects to have/continue a conversation with me or my wife.

 

I have no problem with my wife flirting with guys at a bar, or even more than flirting as long as she is safe. But I would expect her to be honest and tell him that she is there with my blessings. Where I have an issue with the reference post this "Her story would be along the lines of the desperate, neglected, lonely house wife, etc.......".

 

That is playing a game, a potentially, dangerous game at that. If we cannot give the guy enough respect to not lie to him about why she is there, what should I be able to expect from him?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I agree. If the single guys knows she's married and continues it's on him. That said I still think it's best to just be upfront. "I'm married but I have permission to...." Granted in their case with the limits so tight on what she's actually there to do they will likely have trouble getting very far with a guy once he knows she's only there to flirt and make-out. That said, most guys aren't going to ask. They might notice the wedding rings, maybe.

[Gordo 618]

If we cannot give the guy enough respect to not lie to him about why she is there, what should I be able to expect from him?

 

But we already know he's there looking to fuck married women and doesn't give a shit about whatever damage that may cause. Why would you even worry about respecting him and him meeting your expectations?

 

This is where I see the break. If he's engaging in unethical behavior I owe him nothing, nada, zip. He'd fuck my wife in a heartbeat walk away and never think twice.

[Coupleerotic22 1,419]

True, but is it any less unethical to lead him on with lies?

 

If we are honest with him and let him know you expect the same, that is all I owe him. At that point I expect the same from him. It is his call what he does, but is also our call if he gets to continue forward.

 

I have bought drinks and danced with women at bars that I had no intention of sleeping with because I had a girl friend. And I have heard the stories about being neglected by boy friend/spouse. In those cases I got the opportunity to talk to a pretty women rather than listen to same BS from my bar buddies and she get someone to talk to her an pay the attention to her that she wants, and it doesn't lead to sex. Because a guy pays attention to and flirts with her, it does not automatically mean he is going to fuck her, even if she wants to do so.

 

Maybe I am giving decency to much credit. But if she is coming on to him and tells him she is neglected, how much better his she. I find that particularly true if she has permission to fuck him but is filling his head with stories to entice him. Is he a scumbag if he sleeps with a married woman whom he thinks is cheating? Yes. But is she (and her partner) any less so for lying to get what they want?

 

Admittedly, when I was unattached, there were married women that I certainly could have slept with and had similar stories, and was absolutely tempted to do so. But there was no way I was going there. Like I said, it is more about what I owe me than what I owe the supposedly neglecting husband.

 

In that regard it is like cheating with another mans wife. It is a simple act, but I think cheating is wrong, so do not do it. It is not about that other man or even the other woman, it is about me and what I owe myself. It is far more about respecting myself than respecting him.

[eldiablo311 201]

We have done the going separately into the bar thing. It's exciting for me to watch guys hit on her. It's an ego boost for her. We aren't trying to disrespect anyone and neither of us are attracted to the type of guy who wants to "shit" on anyone. The cocky types are not our types. It was my idea that we would find a playmate if I wasn't sitting beside her and I was right. It was up to my wife to explain things to him. She would be honest with him and let him in on the "game". If she liked the guy and the guy was into playing she would point me out to him and ask him if he would like to meet me. If everything was o.k. she would signal me to come over. The three of us would talk about the situation. We have always gone out of town to do this. That way we don't run into anybody we know. We also don't feel comfortable inviting strangers into our house. In my opinion the scenario posted was on the negative side. I'm hoping that our approach is a more innocent and honest way to find a playmate. As far as the other guy goes if he is married and out cheating on his wife we feel that we are not worthy to be the judges of his decisions. What do you think?

 

 

I have had this fantasy also and mentioned it to my wife, though we have not done it. If we were to do it, I would want my wife to be honest with the guy though and tell him she is happily married, but her husband allows her some freedoms with other people also. I would want her to be honest right up front with how far she would be willing to let things go if he asked. But I can definitely see the fun and excitement in sitting back and watching your wife get hit on/flirt with other guys.

[Chicup 42]

Being I know guys really want to fuck my wife, I'm not sure of where this fantasy falls for swingers.

 

"Some guys hitting on my wife?" is like "Is the sky still blue?"

[lotsoffun201 175]

We have done the going separately into the bar thing. It's exciting for me to watch guys hit on her. It's an ego boost for her. We aren't trying to disrespect anyone and neither of us are attracted to the type of guy who wants to "shit" on anyone. The cocky types are not our types. It was my idea that we would find a playmate if I wasn't sitting beside her and I was right. It was up to my wife to explain things to him. She would be honest with him and let him in on the "game". If she liked the guy and the guy was into playing she would point me out to him and ask him if he would like to meet me. If everything was o.k. she would signal me to come over. The three of us would talk about the situation. We have always gone out of town to do this. That way we don't run into anybody we know. We also don't feel comfortable inviting strangers into our house. In my opinion the scenario posted was on the negative side. I'm hoping that our approach is a more innocent and honest way to find a playmate. As far as the other guy goes if he is married and out cheating on his wife we feel that we are not worthy to be the judges of his decisions. What do you think?

 

A couple of weeks ago, we were feeling a little adventurous. It was a weeknight and we had just had dinner at our favorite restaurant. Mrs said, "lets go vanilla hunting". Now we live in Vegas, and we have to be careful to go somewhere nobody knows us otherwise too many eyebrows would be raised, and/or a familiar bartender could easily put an end to the adventure.

 

We did exactly what was mentioned previously. We went to an unknown casino bar separately. Mrs sat at one end and I sat at another to watch. It was strangely exciting knowing what we were doing. We had, however, planned that if something looked promising and safe, we would go through with it. After quite a few "strikeouts" a nice middle-aged gentleman invited her back to his room. At that point she gave me the signal to come over. It was exciting to see his hands all over her. At first he was a little taken aback, but then became more comfortable and as soon as HE knew we were safe we went upstairs. Unfortunately, he was not able to perform due to alcohol and nerves, but it was a wild crazy time and we would repeat it in the future without hesitation.

[christnthms 326]

In that regard it is like cheating with another mans wife. It is a simple act, but I think cheating is wrong, so do not do it. It is not about that other man or even the other woman, it is about me and what I owe myself. It is far more about respecting myself than respecting him.

I think this is the crux of the matter to me. Whatever a couple agrees on is up to them. What the single guy is comfortable with is up to him. I have no problem judging the behaviors of either, as it pertains to my life. I don't worry about the intent, only the behavior.

 

I behave in a way that I feel, lives up to my own code. I do fall short at times, and that is where I have to honestly address whether my moral code or my behavior needs to change. In order to feel good about myself though, I have to keep some consistency between the two. This is FOR ME, not for anyone else. I like to think that this helps make me the sort of person that others would like to be around. But honestly, it isn't about anyone else. It is about me being OK with me.

[81lizard69 470]

Welcome to my utopia. My wife is hot and yes I married above my station in life. When we go out men will hit on her right in front of me. When we were younger and went to the clubs she sometimes would dance with other men and I would dance with other women. Some times a woman would slip me their phone number or ask if I was happy with my wife. I would say yes as I love her. Men would do the same to her. I remember one time I looked out on the dance floor and there were two men grinding on her. I thought oh shit! I am gonna lose her if I don't do something. Sometimes it was words or maybe a fight. My hot little wife knew how to start some trouble back in the day... but she was worth the effort and that kept me on my toes.

 

If you marry a wild one you know going in that things are gonna get bumpy from time to time. I had said that I do not believe that there really is such a thing a monogamy and she really brought that home with her behaviors back then. We were pretty wild before we stopped living that life and decided to get married.

 

I really can not judge this situation. But I can share my life experience on it. It is fun to go out and meet new people. We went to watch a friend that plays in a band this last weekend in a hole the wall club. Turned out there were a lot of forty-somethings partying that night and I danced with a couple of different women. And my wife danced with some men she met there. It was fun watching her have a good time and get back into her party mode.

 

The first rule in the players hand book is there are no rules. I know that in the pickup game at a bar you have no idea what you are getting into... there is a level of implied risk. My father use to say: if you are in a room without windows watch out. I agree.

 

Good luck.

 

I wonder how karma fits in here.

 

I am

[lotsoffun201 175]

Lizard is correct in that you have to be careful. I think that's important to realize. It's not the same controlled environment as a swingers club. The one thing you have to remember is that once the wife lets the man know there is a husband who is going to join, it changes the playing field. If we decide to pursue a situation like that we intend to follow through.

 

You have to choose your flirting wisely and not allow a situation to get out of control which takes the ability to read people.