Gay swingers

[SwingSetWife 444]

Recently DH and I shared our swinging secret with my best friend, a gay man who has suspected for a while, but was glad to have it confirmed by us. One of the reasons we decided to come clean was because my friend has been expressing to us his partner's interest in bringing someone else into the bedroom for a threesome. His partner has also expressed to him different fantasies such as being with a black man. My friend has been with his partner for 2 years, they just bought a house together, and they are planning to spend their lives together. My friend seems very hesitant about the idea of a threesome, but he has been giving it more and more thought since his partner has such an interest. To me this sounds like a normal development into the "lifestyle".

 

However, this got me to thinking about gay couples and what is considered "the swinging lifestyle". I haven't read anything on here about gay couples (bi yes, gay no- unless I missed it) and have certainly not seen any gay couples at clubs in my area or even on SLS. Once I started thinking about it, it shocked me a bit, because we live in what I would consider a city with a very large gay population (New Orleans). It seems to me that the swinger community is (whether intentionally or unintentionally) leaving out the gay community. For instance, speaking of SLS, to my knowledge you can't even create a profile for a same sex couple. There are "gay sites" such as Grindr, but again, to my knowledge that is geared more toward single gay men- not gay couples and especially not lesbian couples.

 

So I guess my question is- is there any prevalence of gay couples in the swinging community? Could there ever be? Do we, as heterosexual couples, consider ourselves separate from gay non-monogamous couples?

 

I'd like to attempt to leave the societal misconception that all gay men/couples are non-monogamous out of this conversation if possible, as I know this to be untrue, and rely more on any real world experience that anyone has on this topic, if any is there to be given. Thank guys!

[Chicup 41]

There was a lesbian couple on our last cruise who would do bi women while the husband watched. Unusual I'm sure, but they seemed to enjoy themselves on the cruise.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

My wife and I know two different lesbian couples who frequent swingers' clubs.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Check out Dan Savage's podcast and column, Savage Love. He talks quite a bit about non-monogamy in regards to gay men. Also if you listen to the old episodes of Sex is Fun podcast, the character Gay Rick often talks about he and his boyfriend's adventures. It sounds like threesomes or casual sex like we have as swingers are very common. I've never heard gay guys call themselves swingers, more that they have open or monogamish relationships.

[VegasLee 1,486]

We get some gay couples and some lesbian couples at the parties a couple times a month.

 

I have noticed that they all have no problem hooking up and having a good time.

 

The only thing that seems to cause a problem is they are not allowed into the couples only area of the party. The rule for 32 years has been to go into that area a couple is one man, one women and it remains that way. Most of them are very understanding about it though.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Our club has decided that a couple is one man, one woman. There have been lesbian couples that attended, but they were officially two single women. Since the club (which I love but disagree with on several points) has also decided not to admit single men, a gay male couple could not attend. I think the club and anyone who thinks swinging is only for opposite sex couples (not heterosexual, because that's a subset of opposite sex couples, and would leave me/us out of this discussion ) is on the wrong side of history. Already there are clubs that have Bi/Gay nights, which I think is a great start toward integrating all the ways people could swing within a variety of relationship models.

 

As for SLS and other swinger hookup sites, don't expect them to be progressive until they have to be. It'll happen in clubs and private parties long before that (with individuals being inclusive first).

[Chicup 41]

I think the club and anyone who thinks swinging is only for opposite sex couples (not heterosexual, because that's a subset of opposite sex couples, and would leave me/us out of this discussion ) is on the wrong side of history. Already there are clubs that have Bi/Gay nights, which I think is a great start toward integrating all the ways people could swing within a variety of relationship models.

 

Which is great to say and all but we are kinda into that male female thing. The reason we have clubs is to gather our limited subset of people into a location to be able to meet, and mingle at the least. I recall a gay spa in Canada which wasn't happy that the ownership was promoting it as a meeting place for swingers. I didn't feel they were being discriminatory to swingers, only they were not looking for the same things.

 

I can't equate swing clubs with the equality movement. Two guys are, at best the same as two single males to the swinger dynamic. The couples thing is most important to keep the sex ratio close to even. Obviously the bias is to single females, but really how many of them are there?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

I can't equate swing clubs with the equality movement. Two guys are, at best the same as two single males to the swinger dynamic. The couples thing is most important to keep the sex ratio close to even. Obviously the bias is to single females, but really how many of them are there?

 

It's not about clubs representing an equality movement, but history seems to indicate that groups that were outside of a cultural bubble move inside over time. I think the current leading edge of gay men moving inside the cultural bubble of swinging includes Gay/Bi nights at existing clubs, as well as the much greater frequency - at least in my urbanized corner of the Northwest - of men openly identifying as somewhere on the bi spectrum.

 

As to your second point that two men are, at best, single men, my club would agree with you and, in the case of gay couples, be equally incorrect. A couple isn't two singles, even if they play separately or are same sex or whatever else they might choose to do within some form of non-monogamy. It may be that part of the reason you're going wrong is assuming that "gay" means you never have hetero sex and that's not true. As I've been unsuccessfully explaining to you for awhile now, one's sexual identity is not actually dependent on who one has sex with. In any case, a couple, regardless of the genitalia of its components, is different than two singles, and it may be, in a decade or two, that the way clubs determine their ratio of men to women will have changed.

[Chicup 41]

It's not about clubs representing an equality movement, but history seems to indicate that groups that were outside of a cultural bubble move inside over time. I think the current leading edge of gay men moving inside the cultural bubble of swinging includes Gay/Bi nights at existing clubs, as well as the much greater frequency - at least in my urbanized corner of the Northwest - of men openly identifying as somewhere on the bi spectrum.

 

As to your second point that two men are, at best, single men, my club would agree with you and, in the case of gay couples, be equally incorrect. A couple isn't two singles, even if they play separately or are same sex or whatever else they might choose to do within some form of non-monogamy. It may be that part of the reason you're going wrong is assuming that "gay" means you never have hetero sex and that's not true. As I've been unsuccessfully explaining to you for awhile now, one's sexual identity is not actually dependent on who one has sex with. In any case, a couple, regardless of the genitalia of its components, is different than two singles, and it may be, in a decade or two, that the way clubs determine their ratio of men to women will have changed.

 

A cock is a cock. A couple is a couple, yes, but that doesn't mean 2 cocks = 1 cock + 1 vagina. I'm going to just have to disagree. A gay couple offers us absolutely nothing that a single male(s) would offer. This isn't about gay/bi wavy lines, and if ones sexually identity is different than who they have sex with the problem is they improperly self identified.

 

Two single males walk to a club: "No sorry we have a limit on single males"

A gay male couple walks in next: "Oh you are a couple, well then its all different."

 

Functionally, explain to me the difference since obviously I can't figure it out on my own.

 

Gay clubs are far more prevalent and older than swingers clubs, lets see how accepting they would be to swinger couples . I still recall the looks I got with a girlfriend in a gay bar, the lesbians were NOT happy with us(me).

[SwingSetWife 444]

Chicup said:

A cock is a cock. A couple is a couple, yes, but that doesn't mean 2 cocks = 1 cock + 1 vagina. I'm going to just have to disagree. A gay couple offers us absolutely nothing that a single male(s) would offer. This isn't about gay/bi wavy lines, and if ones sexually identity is different than who they have sex with the problem is they improperly self identified.

 

Two single males walk to a club: "No sorry we have a limit on single males"

A gay male couple walks in next: "Oh you are a couple, well then its all different."

 

Functionally, explain to me the difference since obviously I can't figure it out on my own.

 

Gay clubs are far more prevalent and older than swingers clubs, lets see how accepting they would be to swinger couples . I still recall the looks I got with a girlfriend in a gay bar, the lesbians were NOT happy with us(me).

 

Okay, as I stated in another post (and yes, I'm going to merge it here because it is just easier than making two separate relies) there are a few problems with your theory.

 

1. In both posts you seem to be missing the point that being homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual are -not- kinks. They are a sexuality. Swinging is a kink. Therefore, people, no matter what their "sexuality" should be free to participate in the "kink".

 

2. Yes, a cock is a cock. And a couple is a couple. But the same could be said about opposite sex couples. Is it better to swing with a couple, or a single male and a single female? Some may say there is no difference. However, I'm sure there will be a large portion of the lifestyle population that would disagree with that. The dynamics of swinging with a couple are completely different than swinging with singles, which is only compounded if you put yourself in the situation to swing with two singles. If clubs are using the "no single men therefore no gay couples" rule to control the amount of men in the club, then what would naturally follow that is if a club allows single men they would have a cap on the number of men- period. So if the club is to the "limit" of men when you arrive with your wife- then your wife should be allowed in and you should be turned away. It is no different than what you are suggesting about gay couples.

 

3. You have mentioned twice about the attitude of gay people toward the straight community. In your first example, again it doesn't equate with the actual situation. Instead of thinking of it as "gay men didn't want swingers there", just think of it as "people didn't want swingers there". That is the actual situation. And sorry to say, but it is like that many many places. We all know that we are not the "norm" and that we are not going to be accepted everywhere. But again, "we" are a kink, not a sexuality. In your second example, you seem to be using an isolated situation, which I'm sorry to say is based on nothing but your own perception of the situation and I believe that your perception on this issue may be a bit clouded, to draw a conclusion on how gay people act all over. Some people are assholes- gay or straight. I would love to tell you to come to the gay clubs in NO, where we have never had a problem going as a couple and having a great time (free drinks for hubby- always a plus), but that might not do any good. Just because we never had a problem, doesn't mean that you won't. Again, some people are just assholes, and you might end up going when there is an asshole.

 

The difference is, you are ALLOWED to go to these clubs, even if the clubgoers are assholes towards you. You are saying that we shouldn't even give gay couples a chance for you to treat them like assholes. You have made you stance on this very clear and very loud. You wouldn't continue to go to a club where gay or bi sex was taking place. You said something to the effect that "if you would get over it, it wouldn't be an issue", well yeah. It wouldn't be. I'm not telling you to get over it, I'm saying get over it or don't go where that is going on. We agree on this. However, as you said "like attracts like", just because gay men are ALLOWED to go to the club, doesn't mean that it is all of a sudden going to become overrun with gays. Why would they continue to go to clubs that are frequented by straight men and women? I believe that if gay men were allowed in clubs, it would be a rare instance that they would go to "one of our clubs". If gay men were more accepted into the lifestyle, they would have their own clubs, and yes, they might even *gasp* take over a few of ours.

 

Let's not pretend that gay men don't already know what swinging is. All of the clubs in my area allow single men on most nights they are open, and those clubs are not overrun by gay men. So your math equation just doesn't add up.

 

All of this is not to say that I don't agree with you to some extent. I would not continue to go to a club that had majority gay men. Because it is not my thing. Watching gay men have sex without the ability to join holds no interest to me. However, I wouldn't go as far as to make the rare couple that might show up feel uncomfortable or unwelcome either.

 

4. As I stated in the other post, you seem to have an attitude that just because we disagree with you on this point that we are trying to force you to experience something you don't want to experience. Again, a case where you should "get over yourself". No one here or at any club I can think of is trying to shove a dick up your ass. If you have a problem with seeing the very rare occasion where you see for a split second some gay/bi activity, you have many options open to you. It would be a split second because all you would have to do is turn around. Go to a different part of the club. Leave the club. Don't go back if that is your choice. The difference here is that is YOUR CHOICE. You are not allowed to make that choice for everyone else. And I don't think for a second that in all your experience in swinging that you have not seen other things that you and your wife are not into. What did you do in those situations? Problem solved.

 

5. The point of this post was not that if gay couples were accepted into the lifestyle that they would take over "our clubs", "our space", "our sense of comfort", because again, I just don't see that happening. They don't want to see you just as much as you don't want to see them. Instead, why are they deliberately being left out. For instance, on SLS, I can hide single males from seeing my profile and me from seeing theirs. I can hide free members. I can hide my pictures. In other words, I have options. They could just as easily allow gay couples on the site and offer us the same option. Or they could just as easily make a niche site for strictly the gay community. I'm not saying they have to. It's their website and they can do whatever in the hell they want. However, again, it is the swinger community deliberately leaving out a huge part of the would-be population. If SLS doesn't want gay money, I'm sure, in the future there will be websites that do. (*Side note: this is nothing against SLS in particular, I use them as an example because they are the site I use and the one I'm comfortable with).

[SwingSetWife 444]

funcoupledayton said:

Check out Dan Savage's podcast and column, Savage Love. He talks quite a bit about non-monogamy in regards to gay men. Also if you listen to the old episodes of Sex is Fun podcast, the character Gay Rick often talks about he and his boyfriend's adventures. It sounds like threesomes or casual sex like we have as swingers are very common. I've never heard gay guys call themselves swingers, more that they have open or monogamish relationships.

 

Thanks for the info. I will be sure to check it out and pass it on to my friends. I haven't heard gay couples call themselves swingers either. The other gay couples I know are either monogamous or have extended hall passes. I wouldn't go so far as to call them open relationships, but they are free to have sex when out and about without their partner. My friend's situation is a bit different though. Like swingers, they would like to potentially experience sex with others together.

[SwingSetWife 444]

Our club has decided that a couple is one man, one woman. There have been lesbian couples that attended, but they were officially two single women. Since the club (which I love but disagree with on several points) has also decided not to admit single men, a gay male couple could not attend. I think the club and anyone who thinks swinging is only for opposite sex couples (not heterosexual, because that's a subset of opposite sex couples, and would leave me/us out of this discussion ) is on the wrong side of history. Already there are clubs that have Bi/Gay nights, which I think is a great start toward integrating all the ways people could swing within a variety of relationship models.

 

As for SLS and other swinger hookup sites, don't expect them to be progressive until they have to be. It'll happen in clubs and private parties long before that (with individuals being inclusive first).

 

This is along the lines that I was thinking. Although, I must admit that I find it extremely ironic that society will have to accept gay sex before it becomes more prevalent within the swinger community considering that, on a whole, we are not exactly accepted in society. I still, after nearly 10 years in the lifestyle, assume that swingers are more open and accepting than society in general. I know that I know this is not true, and never could be, because swingers are just people. But just as with issues such as race etc, I still find it hard to believe that people that know what it is like to be "left out" are so willing to leave others out.

 

Again, I find it interesting that your clubs, or maybe just some that you know of, have gay/bi nights. This is unheard of in my neck of the woods, and again, I live in a city with a large gay population. It is also a city that brings in gay tourists with events like Southern Decadence (

 

It would be interesting to get a perspective on this from some gay couples. I'd be willing to bet that part of the exclusion has to do with gay non-monogamous types not considering themselves swingers, as FCD pointed out.

[Chicup 41]

I'm still waiting for an answer how a gay couple would be different than two single men in a club. Figure that one out for me and we can talk about social justice and such later.

[SwingSetWife 444]

I'm pretty sure I've already answered that. You just refuse to accept it as an answer.

[oc1234 435]

The difference between a gay couple and two single men is that the gay couple have a commitment to each other. That is exactly the same difference between a male-female couple and a single male and a single female at a club.

[ViSexual 1,008]

I do know a committed gay couple who sort of swing. Now I don't know if they ever swap with other gay couples but they do both enjoy having two bisexual men over to party. I think they prefer bisexual so there's not a chance of drama. They're really nice guys and have been together for over 20 years and plan on marrying this year.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I believe Chicup is only looking at what each person is bring to the club in terms of "package". I think his argument is that if there are a lot of gay male couples in attendance it will be a sausage fest...which does not suit his interests. To him, it is the equivalence of being surrounded by single males.

[Chicup 41]

The difference between a gay couple and two single men is that the gay couple have a commitment to each other. That is exactly the same difference between a male-female couple and a single male and a single female at a club.

 

That's a non-answer, what's the differnce in the swinging dynamic? THAT'S what this is about, swinging.

 

I believe Chicup is only looking at what each person is bring to the club in terms of "package". I think his argument us that if there are a lot of gay male couples in attendance it will be a sausage fest...which does not suit his interests. To him, it is the equivalence of being surrounded by single males.

 

Bingo! The clubs we have attend do not allow single guys, or only for certain events. I think some people are so hung up on the gay marriage debate that being "a couple" is enough to ignore the fact that gay couple dick is still two dicks and swinging has plenty of willing dicks.

 

If clubs want to have gay nights or whatever that's fine, the gay bar I mentioned earlier had straight nights too. Oh and to the person who said I was allowed to go there as a straight, that's because they are a public business with a liquor licence, lets not apples to oranges.

 

But... My wife and I go to clubs for sex with the opposite gender. We go to meet people into the same thing. It's the very function of the clubs we attend. A gay male couple has no part in that. It's not discrimination, or the wrong side of history, it's just we don't play with single males, or to extend male couples.

[SwingSetWife 444]

I believe Chicup is only looking at what each person is bring to the club in terms of "package". I think his argument is that if there are a lot of gay male couples in attendance it will be a sausage fest...which does not suit his interests. To him, it is the equivalence of being surrounded by single males.

 

Sigh. Yes, I get that. And as I already said, I agree. I wouldn't want to go to a club that was filled with nothing but men, gay or straight. However, also again, this thread has nothing to do with this imaginary fear that gay men are going to swarm "his" club and force him out. It has nothing to do with the gay agenda. It has nothing to do with what he is or is not into. He has made his point, and we get it. But I'm sorry, it is frustrating to have 2 posts now (that I know of, I'm sure there would probably be more if I cared to go find them) be turned into Chicup's theory of gay/bi men to keep their shit to themselves when the posts HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT! If I make a post saying "Would you like to see gays fucking at your local club" and he came in and said "Ew that's gross; we don't want to see that" then fine- appropriate answer to the question. However, the issue does go deeper whether he or anyone else wants to admit it or not. Again, you (not you... but anyone) just has to not think about it in terms of gay vs. straight.

 

A gay make couple has no part in that. It's not discrimination, or the wrong side of history, it's just we don't play with single males, or to extend male couples.

 

For instance, he can keep saying that until he is blue in the face, but it is discrimination. I am white and married to a black man. There are PLENTY of people that have a problem with that, esp where we live. Even people that don't have a problem with us being married are not "into" interracial sex. If anyone tried to tell us we couldn't attend a club because some of the patrons didn't agree with our marriage, I would consider it discrimination- period.

 

When someone has a problem with something- that is HIS problem. HE has other options. It is not up to everyone else to make HIM feel comfortable. It is total bullshit.

 

 

With all of that said. I don't care if he or anyone else agrees. He is perfectly entitled to his opinion. I don't care if his opinion is that all gay people should be wiped off the face of the Earth (not that I'm saying that is his opinion, but if). What I do care about is being able to have a conversation with people that actually have something constructive to add to the conversation. If he is unable to have a conversation about gays/bis in swinging without only adding "I don't wanna see that shit", then he has nothing constructive to add to the conversation and should just simply move on and stop turning the post into something it isn't.

[81lizard69 470]

We have had single men bring in hookers as a e ticket to get into swing clubs. I like that some clubs have established that a couple is a man and woman. it just makes sense. The clubs are selling a product or service that I am buying. Knowing that I will find couples and women there that want to have sex is what I am buying. If I just wanted my wife to hook up. we could theoretically just go to an adult theater and just let the single men have at her. That would never happen. Clubs are the buffer to keep the single man ratio down. Don't get me wrong. I like having the occasional mmf with my wife or another woman. I just don't want to have sex with a man.

 

Interesting topic. I know that this is bugging some of the members who think the clubs should be pure and I understand that. My wife likes to watch bi men go at it. I like to watch bi women... I like to watch my wife get hot watching that... I like to... I am such a swinger. Dam!

[Chicup 41]

SwingSetWife said:

Sigh. Yes, I get that. And as I already said, I agree. I wouldn't want to go to a club that was filled with nothing but men, gay or straight. However, also again, this thread has nothing to do with this imaginary fear that gay men are going to swarm "his" club and force him out. It has nothing to do with the gay agenda. It has nothing to do with what he is or is not into. He has made his point, and we get it. But I'm sorry, it is frustrating to have 2 posts now (that I know of, I'm sure there would probably be more if I cared to go find them) be turned into Chicup's theory of gay/bi men to keep their shit to themselves when the posts HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT! If I make a post saying "Would you like to see gays fucking at your local club" and he came in and said "Ew that's gross; we don't want to see that" then fine- appropriate answer to the question. However, the issue does go deeper whether he or anyone else wants to admit it or not. Again, you (not you... but anyone) just has to not think about it in terms of gay vs. straight.

 

For instance, he can keep saying that until he is blue in the face, but it is discrimination. I am white and married to a black man. There are PLENTY of people that have a problem with that, esp where we live. Even people that don't have a problem with us being married are not "into" interracial sex. If anyone tried to tell us we couldn't attend a club because some of the patrons didn't agree with our marriage, I would consider it discrimination- period.

 

When someone has a problem with something- that is HIS problem. HE has other options. It is not up to everyone else to make HIM feel comfortable. It is total bullshit.

 

With all of that said. I don't care if he or anyone else agrees. He is perfectly entitled to his opinion. I don't care if his opinion is that all gay people should be wiped off the face of the Earth (not that I'm saying that is his opinion, but if). What I do care about is being able to have a conversation with people that actually have something constructive to add to the conversation. If he is unable to have a conversation about gays/bis in swinging without only adding "I don't wanna see that shit", then he has nothing constructive to add to the conversation and should just simply move on and stop turning the post into something it isn't.

 

I suppose I am wrong, it is discrimination in the most pure sense of the word, but it's discrimination like not letting people play soccer on a golf course. I don't think you are grasping the core issue here.

 

Lets say you are a member of a wine tasting club. Everyone brings a new wine and people sample it. I personally don't care for wine that much, so I bring beer instead. Should I be offended I am not welcome to bring more beer to the next party?

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Perhaps there is a difference of opinion to what type of couples swing clubs should cater to. Chicup prefers the MF/wine club. Others see it more of a MF/FF/MM/all alcoholic club.

[swing.kidz 367]

If it's just an MF/wine club, then the leniency to females and their bisexuality must be omitted too.

[VegasLee 1,486]

If it's just an MF/wine club, then the leniency to females and their bisexuality must be omitted too.

 

HA! That won't ever happen. Swingers have double standards when it comes to single women or cheating women.

[swing.kidz 367]

I agree, but I think that's kinda where this thread has gone, it's not only highlighting the double standards in this lifestyle but showing the double standards are a systematic and relatively unquestioned line of thinking. It's inevitable that these topics are going to be discussed more frequently with the changing social climate of gay rights. And as a result, I think we're going to see a change in the variations of members of lifestyle events, online resources and clubs...not that it's going to be a total change, but some providers (maybe many) are going to be more inclusive of diverse clientèle.

 

I think it's good...I always read on here about the shift in the behavior of swingers (like, in the good old days, we just had sex, none of this relationship stuff, etc.) and there's always this feeling of negativity associated with these types of changes, like it was better then than it is now...but this is a dynamic lifestyle and to think this lifestyle isn't going to rapidly change over time, especially as the social climate in the 'vanilla' world changes is kinda naive.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

swing.kidz said:

I agree, but I think that's kinda where this thread has gone, it's not only highlighting the double standards in this lifestyle but showing the double standards are a systematic and relatively unquestioned line of thinking. It's inevitable that these topics are going to be discussed more frequently with the changing social climate of gay rights. And as a result, I think we're going to see a change in the variations of members of lifestyle events, online resources and clubs...not that it's going to be a total change, but some providers (maybe many) are going to be more inclusive of diverse clientèle.

 

I hit the like button because of the second and subsequent sentences, but not the first, and I wanted to clarify. I think the more traditional voices are very much on the wane, both here and out in the actual world. Ten years ago, there would have been far more people expressing distaste for the idea of gay swingers and whether they could or should be integrated into swinging. Here you only have one and a decided but undecided. I find that encouraging.

[carebear 90]

In our area we have several sex positive groups. The swinging club is more 'mainstream' for lack of a better term. Then there's a group in the city that is more heavily into bdsm and more alternative things. For instance they have a masturbation friendly party where just about anything goes.

 

I have never seen homosexual acts at the swingers club, not even pegging, but at the other club guy guy is more common. Just my two cents.

So perhaps search out sex positive groups in your area and see if any are less 'old fashioned' than the standard swingers club.

[Fours Company 169]

Ok, I've been watching this thread here and have been reluctant to jump in only due to what I've perceived is a subtle accusation of intolerance (however unintended) for anyone disagreeing with the majority opinion. However, I have to say, I have to go with most of what Chicup said and understand the point he was trying to make.

 

One of the reasons we don't go to many clubs, besides our schedules, is a lot of them in our area have a growing lopsided ratio of single men and couples who just socialize vs. couples who are there to play. As a result, we rather maximize our odds of finding a couple to play with, while minimizing wasting a rare free night, driving a good distance and putting out money all for nothing. To us this means a couple, one man, one woman (preferably Bi) who is compatible and the more single males or non-playing females there are, obviously the harder this becomes.

 

There has been times we have gone to a club only to discover it was a dead night and we were one of the few if not the only couple there compared to single males. If more clubs allowed two men to count as a couple, regardless of their orientation, instead of as two single males to limit the amount (the few that actually do) this would change the ratios even further against couples, unless it was a couple with a rare Bi male.

 

So for us this would be a negative. Male with Bi female...perfect. Male with straight female...we can work with that. Bi male with Straight or Bi female...not a problem as long as he respects my preferences. Bi female...dream on:sad:. But a gay male couple has exactly zero to offer either one of us and allowing more men of any type would only cause us to avoid that club even more.

 

Yes, clubs can and should be able to allow as many men as they want, including gay males, however they have to also realize they will be discouraging others at the same time and for some of us it is just a matter of looking at what will help or hinder us more in what we are seeking and not a matter of being against any groups or the LS becoming more inclusive.

[SwingSetWife 444]

Fours, I'm glad you commented and sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable about doing so. I have no problem with differing views, and completely understand the point you are making.

 

There has been a lot of talk her about clubs, specifically clubs frequented by opposite sex couples. But allow me to ask this... would you feel your choices were as restricted if same sex couples were "allowed" to post profiles on swinger sites? Or do you feel that it should be kept completely separate?

 

I'd also like to reiterate that at this point I'm only asking these questions because this is the way the thread has turned and in no way was the original thought behind my original question.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

Based on what I know about my gay male friends, there will never be very many gay male couples attending swinger clubs. My gay male friends tend to think of swingers clubs as boring compared to their usual nightlife activities. Any worries about clubs being taken over by gay males is misplaced worry, IMHO.

 

I'm afraid to ask them what they think about swinger attire.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Based on what I know about my gay male friends, there will never be very many gay male couples attending swinger clubs. My gay male friends tend to think of swingers clubs as boring compared to their usual nightlife activities. Any worries about clubs being taken over by gay males is misplaced worry, IMHO.

 

I'm afraid to ask them what they think about swinger attire.

 

They probably think we all look fuddy duddy.

[Fours Company 169]

First I should say that I was not attempting to single out any particular person's opposing views here and I realize no one here was purposefully trying to accuse other members of homophobia, I just thought I needed to put it out there that there are those of us who would consider a gay couple a negative for practical reasons that have nothing to do our vanilla support of same-sex rights. As someone who would love to see this country finally be enlightened to allow full equality, including same-sex marriage, my beliefs have little to do with what we want and seek from the LS and the fact of club dynamics.

 

Second, as to the question of same-sex profiles on LS: since some swinger sites already allow vanillas or single straights (for reasons that still baffle me) to post ads looking for other singles, I would have no problem personally with them allowing gay singles or couples to place an ad seeking whatever combination they wish.

 

I think the comparison between allowing all groups to post an ad vs. access at a club is to be honest, a false balance. We can always chose to ignore or filter out whatever groups we have no interest in on websites without any losing out on anything other than a few seconds or minutes it takes to search.

However, to spend time both out of our vanilla life and travel as well as a none-too-paltry sum of money to go to a club only to find it skewed towards single males or anyone else who does not meet our sexual preferences, is more than an a minor inconvenience.

 

I can understand those here that want a sort-of swinger utopia out of clubs and I can understand where they are coming from on a vanilla-level, however as I said I'm just looking at it on a practical level. In my opinion with some clubs allowing seemingly unlimited single males for pure profit and the growth of the social faux swingers, there has already been enough to discourage "traditional" swingers seeking male/female couples and such a move would only serve to alienate them further all to draw in other groups.

 

So, although I did feel these was a certain basis here that failed to consider why someone else might have an issue with this, I still value different opinions and like I said, I know where those that feel different are coming from, so no apology is necessary.

[Chicup 41]

two4youinswva said:

Based on what I know about my gay male friends, there will never be very many gay male couples attending swinger clubs. My gay male friends tend to think of swingers clubs as boring compared to their usual nightlife activities. Any worries about clubs being taken over by gay males is misplaced worry, IMHO.

 

I'm afraid to ask them what they think about swinger attire.

 

It's not about the worry but the principle of the matter I had my wife read the thread last night and finally at the sunbuckus post she said "ah someone finally gets it".

[MrMarvin 268]

I am all for the rights of same-sex couples for many reasons. As one example, what other consenting adults elect to do in the bedroom is none of my business. I rather have effort and monies spent towards addressing actual problems than inane efforts to police such activities. Also, the idea of same sex couples cohabitating and building a family unit is fantastic. That adds to self efficiency and contribution to society rather than living off my paycheck.

 

I paint the above back drop before noting I am not gay, bi or even bi-curious. It simply does not appeal to me. Regardless, I am not going to police the choices of others.

 

With the above said, I am not going to object, kick, fight or scream if gay/bi/bi-curious men attend or are "allowed" to attend lifestyle functions my wife and I attend. However, because we choose not to engage in such activities, we would stop attending such lifestyle events that swing (no pun intended) more heavily towards catering to gay/bi/bi-curious men simply because we would be unable to find what we are after. Compare it to a restaurant choice-- if we are in the mood for Mexican food, we are not going to satisfy that craving by going to an Italian restaurant.

 

In the end, I personally don't worry about it as these things tend to work out in the wash. Lifestyle/kink/people with a certain fetish will all tend to gravitate towards that "restaurant" that will satisfy their craving. There will always be a multitude of "restaurants" to satisfy any craving.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

two4youinswva said:

Based on what I know about my gay male friends, there will never be very many gay male couples attending swinger clubs. My gay male friends tend to think of swingers clubs as boring compared to their usual nightlife activities. Any worries about clubs being taken over by gay males is misplaced worry, IMHO.

 

two4yourinswva might be alluding to a thought that I just had about this post, and maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but why would gay male swingers want to go to a swingers club in this time of human history? There still seems to be a lot of "Ewwww, gay male sex!" or "I'm straight, don't touch me anywhere!" from the majority of male swingers. There aren't a lot of bi-curious or bi-sexual swinger males. This would mean that there just isn't enough males at swinger clubs to really make gay male swingers interested to going. They can go elsewhere to find other swinger gay male couples. Perhaps when there isn't so much fear or disgust about males having sex with each other, then swing clubs would cater to all couple spectrums--there would be gay male couples, straight/bi-curious/bi MF couples, and lesbian female couples. In that case, there wouldn't be an abundance of sausage or kitties.

 

Or am I wrong about this?

[SwingSetWife 444]

sunbuckus said:

two4yourinswva might be alluding to a thought that I just had about this post, and maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but why would gay male swingers want to go to a swingers club in this time of human history? There still seems to be a lot of "Ewwww, gay male sex!" or "I'm straight, don't touch me anywhere!" from the majority of male swingers. There aren't a lot of bi-curious or bi-sexual swinger males. This would mean that there just isn't enough males at swinger clubs to really make gay male swingers interested to going. They can go elsewhere to find other swinger gay male couples. Perhaps when there isn't so much fear or disgust about males having sex with each other, then swing clubs would cater to all couple spectrums--there would be gay male couples, straight/bi-curious/bi MF couples, and lesbian female couples. In that case, there wouldn't be an abundance of sausage or kitties.

 

Or am I wrong about this?

 

No, I don't think you are wrong about this. It is part of the point I was trying to make in response to Chicup. Not only do I think they would stay away because of potential problems, but I think they would also stay away from lack of potential partners.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

No, I don't think you are wrong about this. It is part of the point I was trying to make in response to Chicup. Not only do I think they would stay away because of potential problems, but I think they would also stay away from lack of potential partners.

 

See! I was slow and I have a bad memory! lol