Swinging gone bad!!

[kinkylittlelady 15]

This is going to be long winded so please bare with me, as I try to give us as much information about last night as possible.

 

I am 39 and my bf is 46. We are both new to swinging as a couple, where as I myself have swung as an invited guest to make threesomes and have dabbled in the D/s lifestyle as a Mistress on and off for 3 yrs or so..so what I see in clubs has no wayward impact on me nor am I intimidated by it, in fact I find the sights sexy and exciting

 

After pushing our sexual boundaries as couple and me telling him about my experiences we pushed our boundaries online first before coming to the conclusion that swinging would be fun. We researched, discussed rules and how to go about it. When we did attended the club the 1st time 2wks ago..it was a wonderful experience..it was couples and single males..he was all over me touching me showing me off, empowering me to open up and do more, even though the club was empty in comparison to last night, I definitely would say my 1st experience of a swingers club as a couple was fabulous and I left wanting to do more with him.

 

The rules we discussed was that we was 'on show' and I was not to be shared and that I could engaged with another female, but no males and he was fine with us being exhibitionists. We had sex while men were around us and then watched a lovely looking couple..I had no issues with that night at all. However last night has left me feeling sick to the pit of stomach and in fear of not being able to swing again and trusting the bf to stick to his limits.

 

As soon as we entered the club..it was packed it was couples and single females. His eyes literally popped out of his head, I found it all very amusing at first as he was in totally wonderment to what was going on around him. To the point that I feel he forgot I was there! In comparison to our 1st visit, he stood alone with me at his side and not responding to my touch, he was in total awe of the sights and the more I tried to get his attention, the quicker I realised this wasn't us experiencing this as a couple, bar him saying how 'fit' or 'nice arse' or 'wow! look at her' we never engaged in any conversation. no attentiveness, no public displays of affection, no public foreplay.

The crunch came when a woman began to receive oral on the bar. He turned to watch without me and then was invited to play with her, to which he shook his head smiled and said I cant and pointed at me!!!

My heart sank...I sat alone and let the hurt build up..and this was for about an hour until I said to him 'your not single' but your acting as if you are!

Yes he said sorry and tired to make amends and said he didn't realise, but the damage was done and I had lost my mojo...

 

We then left, argued to which he did not see how hurt I was by his behaviour. I haven't slept, we argued/talked more to which I did not like what he was saying..He wants to engage with other women, he wanted to give that woman oral, he wants to see me with men! I have been totally blown out the water, I now feel I am not enough, I now feel that we will fail as couple, because he wants to experience more and I did introduce him to this world, so I am to blame!

 

Theres part of me that after we have talked that I should of taken control of the situation and should of lead him, and theres the part of me is gutted that Im not going to experiencing swinging again and Im in total fear that I cant trust him not only in the swinging scence, but if he wants to 'cock' other women in the club, whats stopping him in nilla?

 

My insecurities are in over ride and my minds on auto gage and wont stop thinking, analysing and torturing myself.

 

Please any guidance from experienced swingers would be wonderful, not only do I need to find a way to get over myself, I need to find away to loose this fear. I love this man from my core and I fear that I wont be good enough now and that swinging is a future for him, if so I told him I cant be with him. We have talked and the situation has been dealt with to an extent!. However my hurt is still extremely raw and raging! and I am convinced he does not grasp the etiquette of swinging and the decorum that should be shown.

 

Heartfelt Thank you

 

G x

[81lizard69 470]

Your feelings are perfectly natural. That sounds very familiar to me. I can say that swing clubs and bondage clubs are completely different. The discipline at the bondage clubs is way higher than any swing club. Your boy friend just looked at the other woman and said he was with you. That is the answer you wanted to hear unless I missed something. I do say that you only playing with another woman at the club while he watches for me was a bit much. The swingers that I know have been around for a while operate on a unspoken equality clause. What is good for one is good for the other. Just watching while the other one gets it on leaves a deficit in the relationship.

 

In our relationhsip, my wife and myself only, we play together trusting that we will be back in each others arms later. When we first played I was with this other woman and my wife was acros the room with another man. I saw her looking at him in the throws of pasion. It was then I felt a pang of jealousy that I had not felt before. It was in the weeks afterwards that I came to peace with the fact that I was only a part of my wifes entire life. I did not have to be everything to her all the time. I was not charge of her sexuality or for that matter her life. I am just a person she chooses to be with. What I am describing is the control I thought I had over her. By letting her go and make her/oour choice to be free to swing really helped set me free from those control and jealousy issues I had. She could go on and explore her sexuality with or with out me. I am ok with it.

 

We do have rules for swinging. We swing same room with condoms for the most part. If one of us wanted to swing by ourselves I am sure it would be ok.. only we just have to ask the other. We keep it same room for now and have had no problems. Discussing what happened out on swing nights and how we felt is a big of why swinging works for us. If her or my feelings are hurt we tend to talk about it.

 

Talk to him about what happened. Maybe swinging is not for you.. I know most can not handle the emotions. Good luck and keep us posted Others might learn from your experience.

 

And thank you for posting. Your post helps my wife and I think about how we effect each other when swinging.

[kinkylittlelady 15]

Thank you

 

And bizarrely. .that very same thoughts are wizzing about my head, that when I was a guest. I so hope those couples survived and I my presence didn't cause any damage. I was always very safe and respectful and always informed the lady that I followed her lead and instruction. Never the gentleman.

 

G x

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Welcome to the forum, kinkylittlelady! I hope you and your boyfriend can research the many threads here and talk about what your thoughts and feelings are from what you've read.

 

May I ask how long you and your boyfriend have been dating and how long you two talked about swinging before your first experience two weeks ago? As you have experienced, swinging as a couple is very different from swinging as a single.

 

The crunch came when a woman began to receive oral on the bar. He turned to watch without me and then was invited to play with her, to which he shook his head smiled and said I cant and pointed at me!!!

 

Forgive me, but I see this differently. When he was asked to partake, he didn't forget about you. He didn't scowl. He didn't play with her. He smiled, acknowledged your presence, and stuck to the limits you two set forth.

 

I am curious, when you two decided to embark on your swinging journey, were you two only desiring to be voyeurs and exhibitionists? Or were you two going to go slowly, start as voyeurs/exhibtionists and then move slowly to soft swap once both of you were comfortable?

 

In my humble opinion, which can always be wrong so feel free to dismiss it, is that there's a communication lag. You said:

 

I sat alone and let the hurt build up..and this was for about an hour until I said to him 'your not single' but your acting as if you are!

 

You sat there for an hour, stewing in your hurt and anger. Instead of sitting there, you could have pulled him outside and let him know how you felt. Perhaps learning to be more open with your thoughts and feelings with your boyfriend as soon as possible might help. I admit, I sometimes have this same problem of sitting and stewing in my emotions which makes it worse because it builds up to a frenzy until I can no longer hold it in and end up being more hurtful with my words than if I had faced them right from the start. If you read enough threads on the forum, you will see a common advice...communication. It is one of the more important keys to making swinging (and any long-term relationship) work. You both need to be able to be open, honest, respectful, and non-judging with each other about fantasies, desires, wants, feelings, limits, boundaries, etc. Without it, you two will not be a working unit but two disconnected gears that might grind against each other until the unit breaks.

 

Another issue is insecurity. I have it. You have it. Many, many, many women have it. Many, many, many men have it. This is something that only you can resolve though within yourself. Are you feeling insecure about yourself? Insecure about the strength of your relationship? Are you worried that your boyfriend will leave you once he has sex with other women? Worried that he won't find you attractive anymore? Will he fall in love with someone else? These are issues that you need to bring to your boyfriend's attention so that he knows how you feel. But any assurances he gives probably won't be enough and that's because the insecurity is in you, not him. You have to make the decision to be secure in these types of issues. You have to feel confidence in yourself, your relationship, your boyfriend. You have to feel that you are enough. If he leaves you for someone else just because he has sex with someone else...then what does that say about him, not you. Swinging is learning that sex is sex--not that sex equals love. Swinging is about having non-monogamous fun with other people but then returning to regular life afterwards. You have to remember that he is going home with you at the end of the night.

 

We were not there with you at the club...we didn't see the amount of attention (or lack thereof) that he gave to you. Maybe some of us would say that he did give some attention to you. Maybe others would agree with you that he didn't. Personally, maybe I'd give him some slack. You said it was extremely busy and it was probably really stimulating. I've heard from many swinging men that clubs or parties can be too stimulating for them--especially when it was their first party/visit to a club. Their eyeballs are going everywhere and it's hard for them to concentrate. Perhaps this is the case for your boyfriend.

 

Overall, I think you and your boyfriend might need to re-evalulate, communicate more about several of the issues that you have come across (as well as any other issues you might see on the forum that concern you), and work on the insecurities you harbor.

[SwingSetWife 444]

First and foremost, nothing here is "your fault". But quite frankly, I don't see anything here as being his fault either. I understand you are hurt, and I am deeply sorry to hear that. However, all of this sounds very normal to me. Not every couple starts this way, but many do and many work through it and continue to have great relationships.

 

My husband and I started off with some very similar and restricted rules. Those rules just didn't work for us so we adapted and moved on. I think more than anything you just need to talk about your feelings with your bf and reevaluate what each of you wants out of swinging.

 

Also, welcome to the board!!

[Gordo 618]

Men are very visual and obviously he was overwhelmed by the spectacle. After all it would be like watching a porn shoot live. You failed to understand that and he failed to understand the emotions that were brewing in you. Yet when propositioned he indicated he was with someone else and not available which is all he could do without being rude. He didn't forget you. You sat there and didn't communicate your feelings of rejection and frankly when it comes to women us guys aren't all that great at reading minds.

 

As to what you do in the future that is for discussion but if it's any consolation the overwhelming feelings disappear and the reality of it becomes more normal.

 

And BTW I'd love to know about a club packed with single women (or even how you can tell???)

[intuition897 2,179]

We had similar bouts of jealousy in the beginning of our marriage. For me, it was porn. Mr. intuition had a few magazines laying around and he didn't think anything of it. I, on the other hand, was 19 and 8 months pregnant...so I thought a LOT of it! Great, I get to lose my once svelte teen figure with this giant belly, stretch marks everywhere, feeling like a beached whale, and he's looking at goddamned Barbie dolls?! THIS is what he wants? This is what I'm supposed to compete with? It was heart-wrenching. When he realized how much it hurt me, whether it made any sense or not, he literally burned the magazines. It was something, but it didn't erase the fact that he was attracted to those women. This is what I was freaking out about.

 

This is the crux of it. In the vanilla world I grew up in, a standard-issue vanilla relationship is about pretending that you are one another's one and only, that when the rings go on, our lust for anyone other that our spouse is supposed to die, and if it doesn't it means we are weak. So the fairytale goes. But when you venture into swinging, you are both purposefully going hunting for those very monsters under the bed. Sometimes you don't like what you find. Usually you find out that - surprise, surprise - your partner actually is attracted to other people, that you're not the only one who is able to get him or her off. This can be as devastating or as trivial as you decide it needs to be. Ultimately you will simply need to look at it objectively and ask yourself two things: Do my partner's other desires really make me worth less or make me less desirable than if he or she desired only me? And second, do these desires mean that he or she loves me less?

 

When we realize that physical desire - that inexplicable chemistry that we feel with others - is part of our biology, part of being a human animal with strong physical drives, we understand that it is something we can't really control. How, then, are we to blame our partners for something as natural as feeling hungry or sleepy or frightened? Instead of assuming the worst of their intentions, perhaps we can sympathize instead: what if they feel ashamed of their supposed weakness? What if they hate themselves for what they perceive as selfish impulses? And, too, their frustration becomes understandable.

 

What I have found so far is that any perceived wounds that I suffered during swinging were entirely wrought from my own imaginings, and not from any real hostility on Mr. intuition897's part.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

OK, let's look at what actually happened... he stuck to the rules you'd both established, when he found out something was wrong he apologized and tried to make amends. Afterward, he honestly communicated what he wanted. You didn't tell him how you felt as the night progressed. You are lashing out at him, even though he followed the rules and tried to make things right.

 

A lot of folks here have said this isn't your fault. I respectfully disagree. You created a set of rules focused around you and what you want... you get to be shown off, you get to play with other women, you get to watch and be watched. He was ok with that... but when he tells you what he wants, you decide that everything is falling apart. That's not being fair. That's not being respectful and frankly it sounds to me like you're not being honest with him.

 

I think you need to look seriously and honestly at what you're doing, what you want and why you are having such a strong negative reaction.

[kinkylittlelady 15]

]Okie dokie...

 

You asked...May I ask how long you and your boyfriend have been dating and how long you two talked about swinging before your first experience two weeks ago? As you have experienced, swinging as a couple is very different from swinging as a single.

 

I can hear you screaming 'WTF' as you begin to read this , so please don't shout to loud!

We have been together now for 3 months ('WTF!') and we had talked about in depth for the at least 6 weeks before our 1st visit and then intensely working up to our 2nd visit and most definitely is swinging alone different!! and so is fetlife..massive shift change in rules.

 

You asked...I am curious, when you two decided to embark on your swinging journey, were you two only desiring to be voyeurs and exhibitionists? Or were you two going to go slowly, start as voyeurs/exhibitionists and then move slowly to soft swap once both of you were comfortable?

Yes,yes and yes, that's what we agreed and discussed and as far as I was to believe he was more than happy with arrangement, until the 2nd visit and his behaviour shook me up and the admissions later when we talked/argued.

 

You asked....You sat there for an hour, stewing in your hurt and anger. Instead of sitting there, you could have pulled him outside and let him know how you felt. Perhaps learning to be more open with your thoughts and feelings with your boyfriend as soon as possible might help. I admit, I sometimes have this same problem of sitting and stewing in my emotions which makes it worse because it builds up to a frenzy until I can no longer hold it in and end up being more hurtful with my words than if I had faced them right from the start. If you read enough threads on the forum, you will see a common advice...communication. It is one of the more important keys to making swinging (and any long-term relationship) work. You both need to be able to be open, honest, respectful, and non-judging with each other about fantasies, desires, wants, feelings, limits, boundaries, etc. Without it, you two will not be a working unit but two disconnected gears that might grind against each other until the unit breaks.

I totally agree 100% and I am also aware I was in the wrong not to deal with the situation in hand as it totally threw me and I honestly did not know how to deal with it and obviously the stewing brewed anger which gave me courage to deal with it..in the wrong way in this circumstance.

As for the insecurity, Im not insecure within myself or my lifestyle, I am now I have realised at that point I was and am insecure with the situation and far from confident to trust him, as his behaviour was totally opposite to what I anticipated after all the discussions we had with regards to swinging.

I never and I speak for myself at this moment in time would ever want to full swap and I believed we were both happy with soft play and adamant on the rules of no penetration or mouth kissing with others, but those goal posts changed instantly when he saw what he saw...he wanted more and the freedom to interact without confirmation. However I found myself in a situation where I was able to view from a different angle. Purely hypothetical, If a particular guy or woman was there and Tim (OH) confirmed it was ok for me to play I would!!, and that would have no baring on how I feel about him just the realization of ' Really! I can!??' and you don't mind!" and then to go back to him..was not only arousing but heart bursting that he loves me so much that I could. So I am trying to see it differently after reading and absorbing the replies I have had.

 

Yes and I agree again it was most likely extremely stimulating for him, where as I am desensitised by it, due to my previous experience, so I do think I should of been more supportive of him and brought him back to ground as I would of done with a new sub or a potential sub who was only curious before engaging.

 

G xx

[kinkylittlelady 15]

Men are very visual and obviously he was overwhelmed by the spectacle. After all it would be like watching a porn shoot live. You failed to understand that and he failed to understand the emotions that were brewing in you. Yet when propositioned he indicated he was with someone else and not available which is all he could do without being rude. He didn't forget you. You sat there and didn't communicate your feelings of rejection and frankly when it comes to women us guys aren't all that great at reading minds.

 

As to what you do in the future that is for discussion but if it's any consolation the overwhelming feelings disappear and the reality of it becomes more normal.

 

And BTW I'd love to know about a club packed with single women (or even how you can tell???)

 

I have accepted that is was visually overwhelming for him and yes you are correct ESP is not a skill the male species has yet to accomplished

and I agreed over time he will become less in awe of his surroundings as I did. As for the single women quite easily, they tend to come in pairs and the couples tend to stick together until the major play time..the club is practically a night club with play rooms/areas, so you can fathom out whos'who in the bar and comfy area in the early part of the night... lol

[kinkylittlelady 15]

OK, let's look at what actually happened... he stuck to the rules you'd both established, when he found out something was wrong he apologized and tried to make amends. Afterward, he honestly communicated what he wanted. You didn't tell him how you felt as the night progressed. You are lashing out at him, even though he followed the rules and tried to make things right.

 

A lot of folks here have said this isn't your fault. I respectfully disagree. You created a set of rules focused around you and what you want... you get to be shown off, you get to play with other women, you get to watch and be watched. He was ok with that... but when he tells you what he wants, you decide that everything is falling apart. That's not being fair. That's not being respectful and frankly it sounds to me like you're not being honest with him.

 

I think you need to look seriously and honestly at what you're doing, what you want and why you are having such a strong negative reaction.

 

As I replied earlier..it was the shock of his behaviour and the admissions of wanting to move the goal posts, after I had felt secure and safe in the knowledge that what we agreed on was what was going to happen and what he wanted. I allowed him to chose the rules I never influenced them. I only elaborated more in his choices to make sure what he wanted, does actually happens by using examples of situations.

 

And yes I agree with you with regards to my negative reaction, but thats why Im here, because I am confused by it all myself and that it has effected me in this way, which I only could conclude was because I do care for him profoundly, where as with subs there was no intimate or soulful connection.

 

G x

[Chicup 41]

And yes I agree with you with regards to my negative reaction, but thats why Im here, because I am confused by it all myself and that it has effected me in this way, which I only could conclude was because I do care for him profoundly, where as with subs there was no intimate or soulful connection.

 

G x

 

You are confused you care about someone deeply? "Alternative sexuality" is great and all but pair bonding is pretty much a natural state in human affairs. Thats not to say strict monogamy is, or that its "best" but you are a product of your genes and your genes get jealous. Its ok, in fact its pretty damn wonderful at times. Love is a drug but not all drugs are bad. You haven't been together very long, you can't have a deep level of commitment yet so jealousy will be MORE powerful now than at any point because you know you can lose him easily.

 

My wife and I are very confident and non-jealous swingers, BUT I'd have ripped a guys arms off and beaten him to death with them, in a figure of speech sort of way, if I thought anyone would try to touch her when we were first together.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

You are confused you care about someone deeply? "Alternative sexuality" is great and all but pair bonding is pretty much a natural state in human affairs. Thats not to say strict monogamy is, or that its "best" but you are a product of your genes and your genes get jealous. Its ok, in fact its pretty damn wonderful at times. Love is a drug but not all drugs are bad. You haven't been together very long, you can't have a deep level of commitment yet so jealousy will be MORE powerful now than at any point because you know you can lose him easily.

 

My wife and I are very confident and non-jealous swingers, BUT I'd have ripped a guys arms off and beaten him to death with them, in a figure of speech sort of way, if I thought anyone would try to touch her when we were first together.

 

I agree with this very much. As I told another poster, "Wait 10 years." While that extended time might be an exaggeration, I do feel that couples should enjoy the new love and getting to know you phase of their relationship. Right now you don't know him, and you are infatuated. Why not spend some time developing your relationship rather than straining it with other people? In a year or two, when you have a commitment to each other, maybe start talking about swinging.

[kinkylittlelady 15]

THANKYOU

 

Thank you for all of your replies. Your honesty, experience and guidance has help ground me and help me admit to myself that 'I' am not ready for a Swingers Club, which is something I am going to have to discuss with my bf.

I know that soft swing, voyeurism and exhibition is what I want to experience at present and this is some thing I will once again have to speak to my bf about.

However this brings on a new dilemma to which I will post another thread, I may already now the answers due to my previous fetlife, but still other peoples experience in the SS is valuable.

 

So thanks again.

G xxx

[kinkylittlelady 15]

Just to say thank you again for all those who answered my thread. You where honest and very helpful.

 

The next dilemma is that... How do we take it from here, move forward, develope ourselves???

 

I know that soft swing, voyeurism and exhibition is something I do want to experience with him..So how would you suggest we start out??

Should we go back to basics and start online again, and progress to finding a couple or and or even a lone individual to join us privately, as it is quite apparent I am not ready for the full on Club scene and hopefully if that grows and we grow together in time I will be able to venture onto the Club scene

 

It took me 8yrs of diping my toe in out the fetlife water until I found the courage to actually succeed, and divorcing my husband in that time also lol, to enjoy what I had been supressing and where as I would love to jump back into my Mistress attire, I respect my bf preference of me not to. Hes sooo not a sub..lol..

 

 

Kind Regards

 

G xx

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Honestly (and you can count on me for brutal honesty), I think the place to start is with the two of you.

 

From things you've said, in your other thread and here, I think you need to work on the strength and comfort of your current relationship before you start try to add others into your mix... even on a voyeurism/exhibitionism level. As you experienced, even having your partner just looking can shake your confidence and balance in the relationship. Go slow.

 

Voyeurism... maybe start with watching some porn together. In my experience, real, honest amateur porn especially helps scratch that itch. For exhibitionism, maybe try the same. Take some pictures, make a movie... if you feel comfortable with it, post some things online. There are some good, quality real amateur porn sites out there. It might be a way to explore those fetishes without directly involving other people.

 

The big thing you need to do is build comfort, confidence, communication and trust. That takes time and is best done between just two people. Not because monogamy is holy or anything... just because the more people you involve in any kind of relationship, the more complex it becomes. I once used the example of ordering a pizza. Getting two people to agree on toppings is hard enough. Add more people and things get crazy fast...

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

The big thing you need to do is build comfort, confidence, communication and trust. That takes time and is best done between just two people.

 

I can't remember how many times I started dating someone and thought 'this is THE one'...and a few months later wanted to kick myself. You are still in the VERY EARLY stages of a relationship and you both have a lot to figure out as you get to know each other better. I'm not saying that the two of you are destined to fail, but as Lionheart said, the point you are at is best done between two people. Adding more doesn't double the difficulty, but squares the difficulty. I would think the best thing is to set a time limit for it to develop the relationship between just the two of you...six months, maybe a year before you take the next step. Knowing what is coming might even make it more exciting, but don't rush. At this stage, I would think that you both would still be excited about just being together and not even be thinking about bringing someone else into the picture. I already sense clouds on the horizon...that you are a Dom (same here) and he is not a sub, are you ready to give up EVER being a Dom again and will your nature as a Dom not cause friction in the future? Just a thought...

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

From your other post I understand that you've been with this person for 6 weeks.

 

This is going to sound a bit like a contradiction, but I think you are really rushing everything. I think it's too early for you to be exclusive, and I think if you are exclusive you should take time to be together before opening your relationship to swinging even if it's soft swing.

 

I know right now you feel like this person is a great match for you, but maybe you should date around a bit more and not be exclusive with him yet. Six weeks is very early in a relationship.

 

If and when you decide to be exclusive then enjoy that exclusivity for awhile. What I've noticed is that people who are newly dating need and want time (a good year or so) to really get to know each other emotionally, sexually and romantically. They are caught up in each other and not looking for others. The people I know who meet and then start swinging in the first few months of dating, generally don't last. Sometimes people start out both as swingers and then things are easier for them (even those people tend to stop swinging for 6 months or so as they enjoy falling in love and deciding how to continue the lifestyle together), but you guys haven't been single swingers for years.

 

Dan Savage, who I really admire says the same thing, really get to know someone and be monogamous with them for a year or two and then open things up. Let them know your history and your desires for the future, but make it something for the future, not for now.

 

You also talk about your enjoyment in being a mistress. You might find that your kinks are more compatible with someone else and you would be better matched with them. If you want a D/S relationship I would look for that primarily, and then perhaps add other people at a later time when things are more settled in the primary relationship and trust is built. I wouldn't settle for this person you are newly in love with and look for what you really desire as a side.

[Gordo 618]

Great advice above. The relationship is too new and fragile to start throwing others into the mix.

[SwingSetWife 444]

Ditto to all the above

[SoFlaCouple 188]

Great advice above. Focus on your relationship now, that is the most important thing. The other stuff is always available down the road.