Going along with husband's desire to swing, but unsure

[BlueJoy 16]

I kinda would like an opportunity to write about an aspect of this that is... worrisome to me, kind of, and this topic is relevant.

 

I am the wife in this couple, and had many hesitations about trying this lifestyle. I still can't say that we are experienced, we are beginners.

 

At first I went through a lot of the usual fears and feelings people describe from the reluctant wife. I ended up going along with it sort of resigned to the idea that I might as well, if he is sick of me he is sick of me, and he is going to get it elsewhere anyway.

 

Turned out it was not as I expected, and his motives didn't seem to be what I thought. He mostly gets turned on seeing many other men turned on by me (he's sort of a materialistic type, like to show off his stuff, cars, etc.). Perhaps he also likes to see me being more sexually aggressive, and working harder to seduce him as I did when we first met 25 years ago.

 

Here's my problem -

 

I am jumping in the game, wearing sexy stuff, doing all the role playing and posing and he is ecstatic. We're all kinky and he is having a blast. I have not had an orgasm since we started this. Though I am faking them beautifully and loudly.

 

I did this in the beginning of our relationship, took him out dancing and surprised him with no panties under my short skirt, riding him in a semi public place, doing strip teases, going into kinkier acts like anal sex. I am not, on the surface of things, a prude- I have more sexual experience than he, have had threesomes and stuff before I met him, and things like oral sex are a no-brainer.

 

But perhaps deeply, I am what you guys are calling a "vanilla"? I even get into playing domination or submission- any of this, but it is a "mental" pleasure. I mean I enjoy it through his eyes, knowing how excited he is, but physically I feel less. My attention is pulled to the exterior, to appearences, and not to the interior and my sensations. So I feel numb. It just becomes a big act.

 

I feel badly, because the first time we had sex in a club, he was thrilled and talked for days about how that was really "making love" for him. It surprised me because I would have used the word "fucking" (and I don't mean that in a bad way, just not a "loving" way.) He is not aware that I had no orgasm, and that I was very intensely putting a lot of effort into being a sex goddess, which was distracting me from getting any enjoyment from it!

 

On one hand, I am thinking, okay, we experience this differently, and what feels intimate to me is not for him, and vice versa. We have done a lot of my "vanilla" style the last few years, with me having the biggest mind blowing and multiple orgasms, so perhaps it is only fair that we change for a while and do it his way, while I am less satisfied. He lives through the regard of others, so it isn't good for him unless other people witness it.

 

Are there other women that can relate to or understand what I am saying? I guess I'm talking about being cut off from my senses by being overly attentive and conscious of others? Is there any advice, ideas, or thoughts from anyone about how to better find a balance between our different sexual tastes or needs?

 

I thought about this in relation to this topic because I wonder if it is a problem to consider for similar couples- it might not be enough to 'talk her into it", for her to find physical pleasure in it might be more complicated even past that.

[christnthms 326]

I think this is a pretty normal and healthy situation, simply taken too far.

What I mean is... I think it is normal and admirable to care for your partner's pleasure, and focus on that. I know that many times when I'm going down on my lady, I'll lose my erection. This isn't because I'm not enjoying myself, but because I'm focusing entirely on her and not on myself. My enjoyment comes from hers.

But...

While keeping score isn't my style, I'd consider not getting off at all an imbalance and a specifically unhealthy one.

 

-Do you guys still have sex with just the two of you?

-Can you get off still when it's just the two of you?

-Do you take time before and after being with others to reaffirm your connection/commitment to each other?

 

Speaking only for myself, I know that the "others" part of swinging is primarily an enhancement of the sex we have with each other. It doesn't replace it. I'm totally projecting and guessing, but maybe if the "just us" part were emphasized more for you guys, the "other folks" part of the sex would be better for you.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

I have not had an orgasm since we started this.

 

I feel badly, because the first time we had sex in a club, he was thrilled and talked for days about how that was really "making love" for him. It surprised me because I would have used the word "fucking" (and I don't mean that in a bad way, just not a "loving" way.) He is not aware that I had no orgasm....

 

I think christnthms already said a lot of good things so I won't say much more except that from what you said above, I think you two need to stop swinging and do some serious communication before venturing any further (when both of you are interested in swinging). You should be able to be comfortable enough to talk to your husband that you haven't had an orgasm since starting on your swinging journey. You two should be able to have a conversation about the experiences and how each of you felt without any guilt or harsh repercussions. If you aren't able to talk to him about how you feel and your thoughts about swinging and your experiences, you're burying yourself into a hole that will be harder and harder to climb out of the more you dig (not talk to him).

 

Swinging as a couple should be fun for both of you...not just one of you. Speak up for yourself and your concerns, worries, thoughts because no one else knows about them but you. No one else is going to be able to do it for you. Hopefully, he will listen and you two can work on a suitable solution that works for both of you.

[BlueJoy 16]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, especially since I may not be expressing myself very well, I am not real clear on how I feel yet, or even what my "problem" is. I might give false ideas at first unintentionally.

I appreciate the aid in working through it, with your questions.

-Do you guys still have sex with just the two of you?

Yeah, to be truthful, we have not even played with anyone else yet. It has mostly been a bit of exhibitionist sort of play between us at clubs. I cannot call us swingers just yet, I guess!

Our "private" sex life continues, and if you were to ask him, it has gotten only better. A part of me would say the same thing (just not the physical part).

-Can you get off still when it's just the two of you?

No. That is he confusing thing. I can barely feel a thing. I feel numb. Where we used to think I had a problem of "feminine premature ejaculation" (I'd come way too quickly) now I end up faking it just because I don't want to make him work at it all night for nothing.

-Do you take time before and after being with others to reaffirm your connection/commitment to each other?

Obviously part of the question doesn't apply, since we haven't actually touched anyone else, but if it is applied in terms of being around others, in a group setting, yes. We still feel very loving with each other and have always been very affectionate throughout the day. This is precisely why I feel troubled and confused- we love each other, we both want the other to be happy, we both have fun with the idea of play, and yet my body seems to be doing some sort of silent rebellion.

 

Since I wrote this, I have had time to ponder further and analyze myself, (ended up on a five hour hike yesterday, had time for it), and something about the idea of it all being "play" stirs anxiety in me. It is the idea of no more "real" lovemaking... no more "serious"... which sounds like a drag, even as I see what I just wrote.

But his need for visual stimulation (a common masculine thing) strikes me as superficial and makes our relationship seem as if it has become something superficial, like role playing and stage, which makes me feel like I am missing something essential. Something I need for my sense of security- to be loved in a way that is deeper.

 

 

 

I am aware that others would read this and say I am making too much about it. But I am hoping to work it out early because I am a bit afraid of playing with others while that deep need is there. It seems to me like a point of vulnerability that is risky to our relationship. I don't think other couples would appreciate that either.

 

I feel badly talking about it on a message board, and not directly with him. I intend to, once I can straighten out what it is exactly I feel and need to express with him.

[BlueJoy 16]

I think christnthms already said a lot of good things so I won't say much more except that from what you said above, I think you two need to stop swinging and do some serious communication before venturing any further (when both of you are interested in swinging). You should be able to be comfortable enough to talk to your husband that you haven't had an orgasm since starting on your swinging journey. You two should be able to have a conversation about the experiences and how each of you felt without any guilt or harsh repercussions. If you aren't able to talk to him about how you feel and your thoughts about swinging and your experiences, you're burying yourself into a hole that will be harder and harder to climb out of the more you dig (not talk to him).

 

Swinging as a couple should be fun for both of you...not just one of you. Speak up for yourself and your concerns, worries, thoughts because no one else knows about them but you. No one else is going to be able to do it for you. Hopefully, he will listen and you two can work on a suitable solution that works for both of you.

 

Thank you. I recognize the wisdom of your words. I do intend to talk with him and be more honest on this point, as soon as I have a better idea of what is going on in me.

I need to specify that my husband and I are of different nationalities and language- he is french, I am american. By now we both speak both languages, but the subtilities of language plus cultural differences have shown us that we need to be careful in communication to avoid misunderstandings and hurting each other unintentionally.

 

I'd like to cut through my confusing emotions and find the essentials as much as possible before attempting this discussion with him. He's a good guy. He adores me, he is sensitive, and sometimes my gut reactions to his different ways of being can hurt his feelings (and vice versa).

Something about being so "visual" turns me off. It makes me feel insecure, unloved (even though intellectually like I said, I know that isn't true). I am not a bad looking woman, I was pushed into modeling when younger and I have always felt a bit resentful of people who pay attention to looks instead of what is inside. It makes me angry.

wow. Now I am hitting my own buttons. I am feeling fury coming up. Dammit. This is it. I finally felt like I was loved for who I am inside, and this whole visual-exhibitionist surge has me feeling like an object, a trophy wife he wants to show off (and share, but only if he thinks the guy is good enough ).

 

This is where I am filled with ambivalence that blocks me. My mind being totally understanding about men being more visual in general, even if they are very much in love,

and my emotions being resentful of the focus on appearence as objectifying.

 

The poor guy does all he can to let me know that he ALSO loves me deeply, but I think I have issues that are in the way, and it is not his fault.

My conscious mind and intellect can reason all this out and comprehend him, but my body is apparently not under that same jurisdiction. It is refusing to cooperate.

[MidWestMan 33]

I find myself wondering if any new medications or life stages are part of this equation. I'm not saying it's you, BlueJoy, but Mrs MidWestMan was going through some stuff at work and suffering from a lot of anxiety. Her doctor gave her a prescription that helped out....but made it damn near impossible for her to orgasm. Rather than faking anything, she would wave me off if it just wasn't going to happen that time. After her stressful time passed, her doc weaned her off the meds and now she's back to her normal self, including orgasms.

 

That said, I can still see how his behavior and predilections could prevent you from enjoying things at the same level. My concern here is mostly that you are hiding things by faking your orgasms with your husband. It seems like you can't even be honest with him that you're not coming or even feeling his efforts. He's a man. You need to spell this stuff out to him. He probably doesn't even realize you're faking or that you just can't get there.

 

Communication is one thing that is shouted from the rooftops in most threads around here. Communication seems to me to be the point of failure in this scenario too.

[BlueJoy 16]

Both of your points seem valid- there might be some sort of hormonal factor (I may be in pre-menopause, but am on no medication), and the dishonesty about what I am feeling is not cool.

I did explain to him that our experiences in a club were different- that I did not have an orgasm and that physically, I was not that turned on. That knocked him on his butt, he was really surprised, and a bit hurt, I think. Because to him, it felt like an incredibly intimate, loving and close experience- the opposite from what I felt. With my revelation, it was like- oh, I guess I was all alone then.

 

Since that talk, I have been avoiding disclosing that the problem continues, because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But you are right, I should be more honest and I am determined to do so.

 

Wierd thing though, since yesterday, I am noticing a marked difference in my sensations in the genital area, closer to what they were in the past before this problem.

I wonder if it has been "all in my head" and I just needed to get down to what was bothering me subconsciously in order to let it go? Men say their body is effected against their will by things like worries or stress or emotional conflict.... it is probably true for women too.

 

 

 

I also suspect (since this morning) that he is reading this. He's away on business, and his messages give me the idea he might have decided to look in here. I guess that is what I would have done too. I should have thought of that.

So if you are reading this sweety, I hope you are not upset, and we'll talk tonight..... or maybe we won't need to. Actions speak louder than words.

[christnthms 326]

Glad to hear you guys are talking more. I really do think that's the only direction for progress.

 

Good luck to you tonight. You're right. Actions DO speak louder than words. Words are still important though.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

It's good to hear that you are starting to be more open with your husband about how you have been feeling.

 

Wierd thing though, since yesterday, I am noticing a marked difference in my sensations in the genital area, closer to what they were in the past before this problem.

I wonder if it has been "all in my head" and I just needed to get down to what was bothering me subconsciously in order to let it go? Men say their body is effected against their will by things like worries or stress or emotional conflict.... it is probably true for women too.

 

Swinging isn't just about genitals touching each other...I think a lot of preparation for it goes on in the mind and communicating with your partner about what you two are thinking. If there are a lot of mental and emotional conflicts going on in regards to swinging, those can (and probably will) impede your swinging journey until you work those those issues. But keep in mind, it isn't the swinging that is causing the problem, it is just the catalyst that helped bring those thoughts and issues to the surface so you can see them and hopefully deal with them instead of letting them hide underneath.

 

Something about being so "visual" turns me off. It makes me feel insecure, unloved (even though intellectually like I said, I know that isn't true). I am not a bad looking woman, I was pushed into modeling when younger and I have always felt a bit resentful of people who pay attention to looks instead of what is inside. It makes me angry.

wow. Now I am hitting my own buttons. I am feeling fury coming up. Dammit. This is it. I finally felt like I was loved for who I am inside, and this whole visual-exhibitionist surge has me feeling like an object, a trophy wife he wants to show off (and share, but only if he thinks the guy is good enough ).

 

This is where I am filled with ambivalence that blocks me. My mind being totally understanding about men being more visual in general, even if they are very much in love,

and my emotions being resentful of the focus on appearence as objectifying.

 

I think you were really onto something here and definitely something I think you should share with your husband. A lot of couples share screen names on the forum (or they have separate matching names) so that each of them can read and write on various threads on the forum. They may also use it as a means to share their situational issues and have others give advice on it. Please feel free to bring your husband here to read and learn!

[cplnuswing 4,713]

You have received lots of great advice, and I agree the best course of action is to put the swinging on hold until you have worked through the issues. But, and this may sound like the exact opposite of what I just said, I wonder if what you are holding back from is the thing that is holding you back.

 

What came through to me in your posts is you are not at all comfortable feeling like you are performing, on display, or it's all superficial game of play. It is troubling you on many different levels, and that unease is preventing you from progressing to actually playing with others. While you feel that what you have done so far has lacked any connection at all, your husband on the other hand is feeling the exact opposite. He is feeling the extra connection with you because you are pleasing him by your willingness to participate in the way he wants you to. While doing things for our spouses that bring them pleasure can be a joy, it can't totally be one-sided or something that brings you down as much as it raises them up. If you are to keep swinging, I think you need to search for what it is YOU need and want also.

 

You don't feel the connection with him because you are doing it just for him and with him, there is no you in that mix at all. It's not with someone different that you find attractive and has that newness thrill, it's not a scenario you find exciting (MFM or whatever), and you aren't connecting with others because the others are giving you nothing, other than watching. For some people, that attention from watchers is something they desire and connect with, but for others, it's just the opposite, it makes them feel disconnected.

 

So, you don't feel connected with him while you do it because you aren't on the same wavelength about it, and you don't feel connected with others, so that just leaves you empty, and that isn't fun. If you are to continue swinging, I think you need to focus on what YOU can connect with, say someone you are really into and want to be with. If you decide to go that route, absolutely don't try to rush it, wait for the right person to come along. But I think if you do find that right person or couple, then you will find the connection you are missing. Continuing to swing the way you are, you will never find it, and it will eventually lead to more serious problems.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

I like what cplnuswing said but there are a few things that BlueJoy has said that makes me feel that a full stop on swinging needs to occur. For one:

 

I ended up going along with it sort of resigned to the idea that I might as well, if he is sick of me he is sick of me, and he is going to get it elsewhere anyway.

Turned out it was not as I expected, and his motives didn't seem to be what I thought. He mostly gets turned on seeing many other men turned on by me (he's sort of a materialistic type, like to show off his stuff, cars, etc.).

 

And from a few of her posts, she sounds so confused and unsure about what she wants that I think she needs the time to really think about if she wants to swing.

 

BlueJoy, I can understand cplnuswing's point but only if this swinging journey is something that you also want. Some people don't really enjoy being exhibitionists and maybe you fit into that group. But considering some of your posts, it doesn't sound like you're in the mindset of exploring the LS right now. Maybe later in life you will or maybe never...that is up to you but you have to figure that out and be sure to communicate that with your husband.

 

Continuing to swing the way you are, you will never find it, and it will eventually lead to more serious problems.

 

I'd like to expand on this just a little bit because it's a great point. If you two continue in the same manner that you have been with no open and honest communication, I can easily see how this will turn into a resentment situation where you will begin to resent your husband, his desire to go out to swing clubs, and having public sex or swapping (if it gets to that). This is only one of the reasons why being open and honest with your husband is so important. Clearly, the experience(s) you've had has revealed a slight crack in the relationship (and this is normal for most swinger couples, there's always an issue that tests the relationship). You can either ignore that crack (by having no or little communication) and it will get bigger and bigger until it breaks the relationship or you two can resolve to handle that fracture and seal it up (talking about it and figuring out what can be done by both of you) thus keeping the relationship intact.

[BlueJoy 16]

Thank you for your well thought out and expressed responses, they are much appreciated!

 

I would like to clarify that we haven't been totally non-communicative on this issue- I may have given a false impression on that. I feel like we have been talking about it obsessively for weeks. Like I said, I did tell him how our first experience differed for me, I just hadn't told him that the problem had continued since, even at home alone.

 

Writing all my feelings and thoughts here helped me a lot, and I am so appreciative of finding a group of people such as yourselves to share with and get feedback.

 

I have struggled with the idea of doing this for years. I admit that in my gut, I do not feel drawn to this. BUT- I have other issues tied up in my past which make it more complicated. It is not just because my husband has brought it up that the question arises- in fact it might be me who has brought it up more, I am no longer sure.

 

When I was very little, it was the end of the 60's, the early 70's, and my parents were very young, and experimenting with free love. They had an open marriage, and never made any attempt to protect us from the details of their relations. They had other lovers, they had group sex, they had bisexual relations (both). Much of this I walked in on and observed, a lot of it I heard about in their arguments. The marriage was over by the time I was 8, because my mom fell in love with one of her lovers. But up to that point, it was a very volatile situation, often turning violent and we spent lots of time in the emergency room when the problems of jealousy and such would get out of hand.

 

The values I learned was that real adults, who are mature and know how to love for real, can do this open marriage stuff. It didn't work for them because they were too immature, perhaps their relationship needed more time to develop before setting out on that- they may have skipped too many steps.

 

So I can't help but feel slightly ashamed of not doing this myself now. I keep thinking that at some point in my life I ill be mature enough, wise enough, strong enough... our relationship will be "ready" and able to set off on that next level. I feel ashamed of my immaturity that I have not been able to yet.

 

So it is not enough to say there is a conflict of desires between my husband and I- that would be a cop out, just projecting. I have an internal conflict, an ambivalence of my own on the subject.

 

This is enough to make me think that I might need to see if I can explore this world, if even for a limited period of time, to prove to myself that I am capable of it. After, if I come to the rational and calm decision that it is not for me, that is different- it is a choice made from first hand experience and knowledge of that which I speak, that can also help stop feeling so ashamed of my self at the same time.

 

I know this sounds extremely complex, and I guess I can put on my flameproof suit now, as the "psychobabble" accusations arrive.... it would be easier to simply say my mate is putting pressure on me, I don't want to and I am a victim crap, and it would be easier for you, the reader to understand and give a definitive solution to that. But simple is not always truthful, nor always effective)- the issue would continue to arise for me even if we just (once again) decided not to try it.

 

I'm a Capricorn, we don't always take the easy route, and I also tend to look for my weaknesses and fears exactly with the intent to push through them. But I also find it hard to be superficial, or to take anything lightly- which I see can be a big problem here, where the goal is to do exactly that with sex!

[carebear 90]

Having seen your folks' marriage crash and burn, I'm not surprised you have very complex emotions rising up in this situation. I think you're on the right track, thinking about what might have gone wrong with their marriage. Here's the thing dh and I have agreed upon: Our marriage comes first. Period. If for any reason either one of us doesn't want to swing any more, it's game over, no question. If one of us becomes too attached to a play partner, that play has to end. Period, no question. Because at the end of the day our marriage is more important. The fear that one or the other of us will fall in love with a play partner is there, make no mistake, and that is why at the end of the night, we always come together and 'make love' if for no other reason than to feel that 'real' love with each other.

 

As a woman, our ability to orgasm is so tied into our brains we can come without stimulation, simply by thinking about it. So the fact that you're troubled and can't come isn't shocking.

Now for me, I like being an exhibitionist. I like the idea of people watching me, watching me enjoy myself and my partner enjoy himself. I don't feel objectified at all. I can't tell you why.

 

I also think that you are feeling that swinging is a next level, a higher level of marriage. I don't think it is. For me, it's a side-effect of the incredible communication we've been able to develop. Perhaps that thought is a result of what you heard from your folks as a child. From what you wrote, they simply weren't 'there' yet. I think at that time, it was a fad, for lack of a better word. But open relationships are WORK! and when that work isn't done they fall apart, sometimes spectacularly.

 

For dh and I, swinging is a fun hobby. We enjoy the activity, enjoy meeting new friends, enjoy watching each other. It's simply something we enjoy that works for us.

 

You wrote: " So I can't help but feel slightly ashamed of not doing this myself now. I keep thinking that at some point in my life I ill be mature enough, wise enough, strong enough... our relationship will be "ready" and able to set off on that next level. I feel ashamed of my immaturity that I have not been able to yet."

I think you need to work through this way of thinking. Swinging isn't like a management job, where you've proved your work ethic and get promoted. While it takes maturity, wisdom, strength, the fact that it might not be for you doesn't mean you're immature....you may never want to do this. Not everybody is wired for it. There's no shame in that.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

When I was very little, it was the end of the 60's, the early 70's, and my parents were very young, and experimenting with free love. They had an open marriage, and never made any attempt to protect us from the details of their relations. They had other lovers, they had group sex, they had bisexual relations (both). Much of this I walked in on and observed, a lot of it I heard about in their arguments. The marriage was over by the time I was 8, because my mom fell in love with one of her lovers. But up to that point, it was a very volatile situation, often turning violent and we spent lots of time in the emergency room when the problems of jealousy and such would get out of hand.

 

The values I learned was that real adults, who are mature and know how to love for real, can do this open marriage stuff. It didn't work for them because they were too immature, perhaps their relationship needed more time to develop before setting out on that- they may have skipped too many steps.

 

So I can't help but feel slightly ashamed of not doing this myself now. I keep thinking that at some point in my life I ill be mature enough, wise enough, strong enough... our relationship will be "ready" and able to set off on that next level. I feel ashamed of my immaturity that I have not been able to yet.

 

This is enough to make me think that I might need to see if I can explore this world, if even for a limited period of time, to prove to myself that I am capable of it. After, if I come to the rational and calm decision that it is not for me, that is different- it is a choice made from first hand experience and knowledge of that which I speak, that can also help stop feeling so ashamed of my self at the same time.

 

Thank you for sharing that, I found it quite interesting how you saw the situation with your parents and came to the view that you currently have. I think some would have a different viewpoint of the situation. They might see how volatile it was to have an open marriage and come to the conclusion that open marriages aren't a good idea in general but I can see how you would come to your conclusion as well.

 

I'm not sure it's really a case of being mature or immature. I think it's a mindset that a couple has to share in order for a swinging, poly, or open marriage to work. Did some of our life experiences helps us to grow and learn to come to this point? Sure, and it helped me to come to a place in life where I could consider being non-monogamous. And as easy as it is to attribute it to maturity, I don't believe that to be the case because there are plenty of swingers or couples in open or poly relationship that act immaturely in their interactions or behavior. Couples can be in their early 20s and be involved in swinging/poly/open relationships and I'm sure a lot of people would argue that they aren't mature enough to have those types of relationships but those couples are still able to be successful in maintaining their relationship(s). And couples who are in their 70s who have remained monogamous their entire relationship...does that mean that they have not matured enough to be non-monogamous?

[Lascivious L&L 866]

I think within the swinger community there are many different opinions on how sex with others should be. One large faction says it should be sex, play, not emotional, not connected in a deep way. We find this a more superficial take on sexual sharing. My wife and I look for friendship that can be as deep and intimate as any that is non sexual, and perhaps even more so. Limiting it to play sex or sport fucking has little appeal to us. It limits the quality of sex, it's depth, its meaningfulness.

 

From your posts you seem to have found what you've shared superficial and not intimate, even though it did not include others save for them as voyeurs. You were with your husband only, but role playing. That seems to have triggered reactions within you that have made even one on one sex with your husband less than making love.

 

You have not communicated with him in a truly frank and full way. You seem to anticipate that he will have a strong reaction to full communication because he has experienced your sex in front of others in a very different way than you have. He seems to be under the strong impression that you enjoyed it as he did, and when he finds out this is not the case, he may feel you mislead him and wasn't fully honest with him. He may find he doesn't know you as well as he thought he did.

 

The only way through this is communication. You are communicating with yourself, seeking a deeper understanding of your reactions to this situation. If there is any hope of play in the future as well as hope for his understanding, you must offer him your full trust. He may react to all this and you can give him space to react, as you have reacted. Communication is the only way he'll come to understand you, and you understand yourself, as well as understand him.

 

Whether you swing or not, strong, lasting relationships are built on communication and trust.

[BlueJoy 16]

I want to respond to each of you separately, but I am on a break at work, so may have to make it short- but thank you, for being understanding and taking the time to give your thoughts.

 

The question of maturity, and the capabilities of love (that REAL love is open this way, until you've gotten to that point, you aren't fully loving yet) is a real issue for me. I needed to hear what you guys feel about that.

Can love be real even if one doesn't want to have sex with others? I don't mind him doing it, I am not possessive... I just find it very hard to trust strangers enough to let them into my body, and I don't like to have attention focused on me in ANY situation, sexual context or not, by strangers.

 

My mother died fairly young, and I have achieved most of the things she dreamed of and never was able to succeed at doing. Maybe deep down this is one of those things for me.

 

But I need to repeat- I DID tell my husband that our experience at the club was not good for me- I only took more time to tell him that I was still having problems since then (in the days that followed). He and I have talked about it now and I had him read everything I wrote here (he is following this now too). We are not that bad at communication.

 

But he can only do so much in aiding me to figure out if I can get past my own issues and fears, or not.

 

Again, thank you all so much for sharing so much, it means a lot to me.

[BlueJoy 16]

 

You have not communicated with him in a truly frank and full way. You seem to anticipate that he will have a strong reaction to full communication because he has experienced your sex in front of others in a very different way than you have. He seems to be under the strong impression that you enjoyed it as he did, and when he finds out this is not the case, he may feel you mislead him and wasn't fully honest with him. He may find he doesn't know you as well as he thought he did.

 

AS I wrote, after the experience in the club, I DID tell him, and he was very surprised, and confused, that it was so different for me (as was I!)

I only took some time in telling him that I continued to feel disconnected and have problems in the following days- I was hoping to figure out why that was before talking to him about it. It took me a few days (and some soul searching here) but I have told him now and he is following this thread with me. He understands my reasons for wanting to figure out what is causing it first, and not wanting to share that with him right away.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

This is a truly enlightening thread. A few comments. First the BlueJoys clearly have the relationship foundations right--communication, trust and emotional intimacy. Second, the understanding that we carry our past into the present...how we lived our childhood and how we learned to relate. Third, sexual activity is physical and social. They are bonded.

[Guest sandraandalex]

Have you considered that you're not confused at all ? You're just not into sex with other people.

[BlueJoy 16]

This is a truly enlightening thread. A few comments. First the BlueJoys clearly have the relationship foundations right--communication, trust and emotional intimacy. Second, the understanding that we carry our past into the present...how we lived our childhood and how we learned to relate. Third, sexual activity is physical and social. They are bonded.

 

Well, we feel our relationship has become really strong, that is precisely why we started thinking we might be ready for that sort of step (even if I am being extra-cautious, and feeling ambivalences about it personally. )

[BlueJoy 16]

Have you considered that you're not confused at all ? You're just not into sex with other people.

 

If only it could be that simple!

 

Yes, my body, my internal urges, my physical reactions and reflexes are not into it. no doubt and I have expressed that.

 

My mind, my ideas, my values, my conscious personality IS into it- thinks it is a "good" thing to do, finds a certain level of pleasure and mental stimulation in it.

 

So which is the "I" here? Am I my vagina or my brain?

 

It almost becomes this existential conflict between my masculine and feminine nature,

 

Both parts trying to come to a middle ground where both get their needs and desires fulfilled to an extent.

 

 

We are thinking that maybe some of this sort of exhibitionist type of stuff could be okay with me, if we form an agreement (at least for now, and just for me) that there will be no sex with anyone else, and he will agree to help protect me on that point. (because I get a little afraid of being overpowered by men who don't respect the "no").

 

He has thought for a while that I should try sex with women in these places, but though I have felt attracted to women before, it was not just sexual, I had affectionate and admiring feelings for those women as well- their mind and personality attracted me as much as the body. Just the body of a stranger I know nothing about it doesn't stir any interest.

[pballer 16]

If only it could be that simple!

 

Yes, my body, my internal urges, my physical reactions and reflexes are not into it. no doubt and I have expressed that.

 

My mind, my ideas, my values, my conscious personality IS into it- thinks it is a "good" thing to do, finds a certain level of pleasure and mental stimulation in it.

 

So which is the "I" here? Am I my vagina or my brain?

 

 

I’m jumping in as sort of a newbie to swinging, but a study of the mind and philosophy (of sorts. I am not a 'doctor' of anything).

 

There is definitely a conflict within you, and that conflict seems to be also in how you are feeling and where you are feeling it.

If your ‘internal urges’ is not your mind? If not, what is it?

 

Your body and physical reactions are all a part of the operations of your mind. If your mind was into it, your body would follow. While you may be consciously accepting what is going on, sub-consciously you are not. Something deep is stopping you no matter how hard you try to accept it.

 

My wife had this problem. She just couldn’t let go and enjoy what was happening. She liked it, but always had this little reservation area of her mind that made her not able to let loose. We quit the LS for a while because of it. Then she became re-acquainted with a friend from the past. She always liked this guy and they were actually lovers before we met.

 

They hit it off again and I assured her that being with him again was Ok for me. They did, and ever since she has been a house of fire. Every once in a while she balks, especially if it involves first meetings with other people. Once she gets to know someone, she loosens up. I think it’s mostly a trust issue combined with years of religious indoctrination.

Take this for what it’s worth to you. Maybe you need to slow down and get to know the other couple better first. Establish a trust factor with them. Slow way down.

 

Above all remember this: you ARE your brain, mind, intellect and thoughts. You HAVE a vagina, but you are not one. Don’t let your vagina do your thinking for you. That is what the brain is for. Slow down, enjoy yourself, take it easy. You, and your husband, will be glad you did.

[CuriousNJCouple 38]

I read the first few posts and jumped to the end to reply, so I apologize ahead of time if anything I say it's repetition.

Married 26 years (tonight is our anniversary) and haven't had an"O" in over 22 years (and I'm the guy). Please do yourself a huge favor and discuss it with him and, if necessary, with a therapist. I don't think swinging, not swinging or exhibitionism is the answer. You need to discuss things and find out what you need to do in order to feel the one on one connection with him. Denying yourself starts out as discomfort and leads to frustration. Eventually you may end up feeling that you don't matter, or that you don't deserve to enjoy the intimacy. This is dangerous territory. I know first hand. I was made to feel undeserving, and as such I lost the ability to orgasm at all. The Dr's have ruled out medical/physical reasons. We are trying to resolve the emotional issues, but we may have simply waited too long and recovery of the feelings (in my case) may be impossible. Please don't wait! I'm not looking to scare you. I just don't want another person (male our female) to go through what I am going through.

 

We discussed swinging as a last ditch effort to FIX my problem. Don't know if it will work for me because we really aren't doing anything with it. I have to wait on her to decide it's worth (I'm worth?) trying.

 

Talk about it and get what ever help you need. You don't want to suffer through it and you don't want to resent him.

 

All the best,

Greg

 

P.S. - Please feel free to ask me anything, publicly or privately!

[BlueJoy 16]

Thanks for your counsel, pballer, I appreciate it.

 

I do recognize that the two parts of me in conflict are both me- I just was trying to make my conflict more clear within the context of that posters question "maybe you are just not into sex with other people".

The part I called my brain is more conscious, it is my belief system, it is my personality, my individual conscious will. It says "YES".

 

The part I called my vagina is my less conscious part, where deep seated fears, survival mechanisms and defenses, are... it says "NO".

 

 

 

I asked in another thread how swinger women have dealt with the question of trust- how they come to the conclusion that entering a huge room full of strangers, none of them there could possibly be insensitive or disrespectful or with less then good intent... how they can just engage in letting a totally unknown and physically stronger person enter your body and do what he wants with it. That takes a hell of a lot of trust, I would think.

But not one answered.

 

I guess I am the only female who doesn't have a basic trust in all men as being respectful and trustworthy towards women.

 

I wish I was in the US, where it sounds like people talk first and get to know each other a slight bit before engaging. Here in France it is not like that. The people do not talk, and they do not want to get to know the other first. They also do not want to discuss any details first (like what you want or don't, what your limits are, etc.) Because they say that destroys the excitement of spontaneity.

[BlueJoy 16]

Wow, Greg, that is some food for thought! I didn't even know it was possible for a man to get caught up in such a vicious cycle, and you are right to point it out as a potential one for someone in my situation if I let it get out of hand!

 

Funny, I am responding now, when today is OUR anniversary (23 years).

 

In the light of this internal conflict of mine, my husband is just saying "lets forget it, I don't need that.", but I know I will probably pursue this possibility anyway because I am always drawn towards challenging my own fears to overcome them. I was afraid to ride a horse once and that made me obsessed with learning to, when I realized I was afraid of galloping, I got a horse that had been racing and didn't know how to do anything but that! I was afraid of new situations and being dependant upon another person, so I left for a foriegn country I knew nothing about and didn't speak the language in, and was completely at the mercy of a man.

 

It sounds crazy, but it has always seemed to me like within our fears lie the deepest wells of joy, just waiting to be tapped- if you can get past the demons blocking the entrance!!!

[BlueJoy 16]

Just to post an update, though probably no one cares (I need to find a venue for expression any way)

My husband got rather cooled off on the idea of swinging, seeing my complex issues and emotions.

We went on vacation, and despite my suggestions of various swinging type of places we could go to, he shrugged them off.

In California, at a big dinner event, I met a woman and we started drinking a bit too much and going off outside so she could smoke. I really do not remember how the evening ended! My husband says I had made some suggestions about all three of us getting together, but then I had spent hours alone with her in the bathroom!

 

He suspects we had sex, I have no idea. She had found me on facebook and made references to our "girltime", but I don't know. I can't stop thinking about her, which makes me think it is possible we fooled around.

All I can say is- don't drink too much- if you have your first homosexual experience, it is ruined that way. Damn. I wish I remembered.

[angelkin 1,326]

Of course we like to hear updates , are you kidding? Sorry your maybe first experience wasn't completely memorable. Alcohol can do that.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Just to post an update, though probably no one cares (I need to find a venue for expression any way)

My husband got rather cooled off on the idea of swinging, seeing my complex issues and emotions.

We went on vacation, and despite my suggestions of various swinging type of places we could go to, he shrugged them off.

In California, at a big dinner event, I met a woman and we started drinking a bit too much and going off outside so she could smoke. I really do not remember how the evening ended! My husband says I had made some suggestions about all three of us getting together, but then I had spent hours alone with her in the bathroom!

 

He suspects we had sex, I have no idea. She had found me on facebook and made references to our "girltime", but I don't know. I can't stop thinking about her, which makes me think it is possible we fooled around.

All I can say is- don't drink too much- if you have your first homosexual experience, it is ruined that way. Damn. I wish I remembered.

 

I agree with angelkin, we love to hear updates on the forum and wish more people would do so! I am also sorry to hear that your first experience was ruined by alcohol. I harp a lot on limiting alcohol on the forum for 2 reasons:

 

1. You want to be able to know you're consenting to sexual activities and have your faculties about you to be able to say no if you feel pressured or uninterested.

 

2. You want to be able to remember the good times.

 

I always cringe when I hear others talk about how "hammered" they get, or that they have to get drunk to have fun. I am of the opinion that to truly know if swinging is for you and your partner, it should be done sober. If you can do it sober and not have any deeply scarring emotional repercussions, then you can enjoy a drink or two when you're out to "loosen up".

 

I hope your next experience is one that is memorable.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

Bluejoy, I'm with them. We love to hear updates, both good and...less than good. Feel free to express yourself here and we will help when we can.

 

Both of us don't drink, which surprises people (she would rather intake needless calories in a different form and I just don't like the taste). We also like to be stone cold sober while 'things' are happening so there's no confusion later (did I really do that?!!). But then again, there's always video so you can relive the experience again and again (j/k).

 

Your husband 'cooling off' is a good thing. Since you were uncertain about proceeding, he choose to back down showing that he is thinking about you and your emotional well being (or maybe he was just jealous). Be sure to keep the lines of communication open and next time (if there is a next time) let him run the video...

[Lascivious L&L 866]

We certainly would not swing in the circle you find yourself. Spontaneity is in the moment, it is not a function of not talking. Talking is what allows true spontaneity to develop. We prefer meeting people one on one rather than in clubs. That eliminates groupthink and enables dealing with individuals only. Parties of people we know are much more fun.

 

Seems as if the group setting you experienced may have as much to do with your feelings as your inner conflict. There is nothing erotic to us about those who lack the desire to communicate. We'd find it scary too.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I'm glad you came back to update! It's good that your husband is willing to take a break and cool off.

 

I think if I were drunk and in the ladies room more than about 15 minutes my husband would send someone in for me. That you were so drunk you can't remember whether you had sex with a woman is worrisome. I hope it was a learning experience and next time is more sober and memorable.