A question about modesty

[couplers 4,614]

Last week while in Germany for work, I had the chance one day to sneak off to one of my favorite spas for a few hours. It is huge and up-scale, with more than half of it reserved for FKK (naked) swimming, sauna, lounging, steam rooms, hot tubs, sunning, etc.

 

What I noticed, and would like you to comment on, is that nearly all of the women (of all shapes, sizes, ages, races and cultures) but not the men, keep their legs tightly together. I don't make a point of opening my legs, but neither do I feel compelled to keep them clamped shut. Of the women who did not (maybe 10%-20%) keep them tightly closed, most of them were sunning themselves. Some of it may be me rebelling (as I am wont to do) against my sister's taunting of me for being a "freak" with a large labia and clit; the other part is just geesh, what is there to hide? Or is a woman parting her legs (and I don't mean wide, wide open) considered overtly sexual? I mean, I've never been hit on in such a situation. Thanks for your thoughts.

Petra

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I think it might have more to do with "being lady-like" that creates this phenomenon. I remember my mother always trying to get me to do the "clamp" with my legs but it was just so uncomfortable because I have thick thighs. When I go out in a dress, especially when pantiless, I try my best to keep my legs shut. I also think part of this phenomenon is due in part to how the media picks apart a female celebrity if they are caught in the same predicament (dress/skirt and legs apart when exiting a vehicle). They pretty much call her a "slut", "whore", "low morals", etc.

[couplers 4,614]

When I go out in a dress, especially when pantiless, I try my best to keep my legs shut.

 

I get your point, and in the everyday world I act and dress extremely conservatively. But this was in a nude resort, where everyone is unabashedly naked, expecting to see every part of the human body. Except, it seems, that one little area. Why? Guys don't hide their big, sticking out genitals, so why are women concerned about that little part in the middle of theirs? I never having been to a swingers club or private party, I ask what do women do there if they are sitting around naked? Do they hold their thighs shut unless they are ready to have sex, or do they let them casually part like when wearing jeans? I guess I'm itching for a fight against any double standard or control of women's behavior, lest she be deemed "a slut."

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

. . . I never having been to a swingers club or private party, I ask what do women do there if they are sitting around naked? Do they hold their thighs shut unless they are ready to have sex, or do they let them casually part like when wearing jeans? I guess I'm itching for a fight against any double standard or control of women's behavior, lest she be deemed "a slut."

I feel no need to point out the obvious; that neither a swingers' club nor a private party are the same as a German spa (but I guess I just did).

 

The only occasion that I witnessed a woman at a club clamp her thighs tightly is when a guy reached for her bearded clam without an expressed or an implied invitation. The sound of thighs slapping together was rapidly followed by the sound of an open-handed slapping of a face.

[couplers 4,614]

I feel no need to point out the obvious; that neither a swingers' club nor a private party are the same as a German spa (but I guess I just did).

 

The only occasion that I witnessed a woman at a club clamp her thighs tightly is when a guy reached for her bearded clam without an expressed or an implied invitation. The sound of thighs slapping together was rapidly followed by the sound of an open-handed slapping of a face.

 

To both of your points - as it should be. Conclusion: swingers are less uptight than nudists. Secondly, unwanted touching is a physical assault, whether fully clothed or completely naked with legs spread apart. Always ask first, such a simple rule.

[couplers 4,614]

Life is sexually transmitted.

 

Like the quote. I've seen it more fully, and pessimistically, as "Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal condition."

[Hippiegirlie 276]

But this was in a nude resort, where everyone is unabashedly naked, expecting to see every part of the human body. Except, it seems, that one little area. Why? Guys don't hide their big, sticking out genitals, so why are women concerned about that little part in the middle of theirs?

 

Nudism and swinging are completely different things. Nudism is not about sex and although it may seem odd that the men are hanging it all out for everyone to see and the women are not, it would look pretty ridiculous for a man to try to be modest considering his anatomy. Women, on the other hand, can. I personally think it's wonderful that women can feel free to show their body without feeling overexposed.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

...although it may seem odd that the men are hanging it all out for everyone to see and the women are not, it would look pretty ridiculous for a man to try to be modest considering his anatomy.

 

It's not like they can neatly tuck their penis between their thighs and do the penguin walk! Or can they....

[couplers 4,614]

It's not like they can neatly tuck their penis between their thighs and do the penguin walk! Or can they....

 

I've seen it done. Not a pretty sight.

[asncpl 729]

We have a European-style spa in our city that is also co-ed clothing-optional in the common areas such as hot tub, sauna, steam room, and indoor and outdoor lounge. I go regularly and most of the time everyone - males and females - is naked. I don't notice any females clamping their legs shut. Then again, no one was spreading them wide open either. When sitting in the sauna or steam room, I think most females are sitting normally, with legs slightly open. Granted this is not Germany, but perhaps it's cultural? Similar to some cultures where women don't shave their armpits? Personally, I am usually sweating like a pig and busy thinking how this is good for me that I don't even think about how I am sitting.

[Tia Vampire 167]

I think it may be a cultural thing or the way the females were brought up. I too remember my mom always reminding me to keep my legs closed and now that I'm older, it's just a habit.

[couplers 4,614]

We have a european-style spa in our city... I don't notice any females clamping their legs shut. ... When sitting in the sauna or steam room, I think most females are sitting normally, with legs slightly open. ... I am usually sweating like a pig and busy thinking how this is good for me that I don't even think about how I am sitting.

 

You are in California, perhaps it is more reasonable there. I'm not advocating anything radical, it was just that I was sitting on the edge of a pool and noticed that every female except me, but none of the males, seemed to be squeezing their legs together. That's when I did my informal visual survey and saw the same thing in the steam room and sauna (except for one young chick in the sauna laying on her back, knees up and unself-consciously apart). So I concluded that except to tan their inner thighs when sunning themselves, women feel either embarrassed or ashamed of their genitals.

 

 

P.S. Gillette must have gotten to them all. I don't see any European women with hairy armpits.

[cindyswet 15]

If you got it flaunt it.

[couplers 4,614]

If you got it flaunt it.

 

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), it flaunts itself. You don't know how much shame and embarrassment I had over it as a young teen. Then, like a lot of things, I said "fuck it," and told myself it's my body, I've got a lot to be proud of.

[1colocouple 22]

One thing I noticed while we were in Germany is that everyone is more comfortable with their bodies. We did see some health spas that were clothing optional but we couldn't visit since we had our kids with us. We will be back in December and hopefully we can get in a little play time there.

[couplers 4,614]

One thing I noticed while we were in Germany is that everyone is more comfortable with their bodies. We did see some health spas that were clothing optional but we couldn't visit since we had our kids with us. We will be back in December and hopefully we can get in a little play time there.

 

Yes, do visit for the spa experience. The places I have been are definitely not sexually oriented, and as matter of fact most if not all are very family friendly. While children in general are definitely not into the spa experience, I have seen children of all ages from time to time. Only once was it painful to watch. In Austria on a ski trip, an Italian(?) boy about twelve years old was with his mother and father in the disrobing area of the sauna/hot tub/steam room of the hotel and being told to get naked in front of his naked parents and a bunch of other folks, many not much older than he. As his naked mama scolded him to get moving, he wrapped the towel tightly around him before taking off his underpants all the while sneaking peeks at the naked young women.

[Guest]

It is just one more of those things that they do to we girls to give those Sigmund Freud types job security. Our first 18 years, our moms tell us to cover up, don't fuck and keep your legs closed. Then, we meet boys and husbands and become sexy sluts to please them, or find them. In my case, if I'm paying for a private spa or such where nude sunning is possible, I'm trading modesty for no tan lines, any where.

[let's do it again 414]

I need to chime in on this. I do nude beaches in Mexico and Jamaica, in Jamaica whenever K and I approached a couple from North Carolina , the man was on his lounge chair and tucked his cock between his thighs while talking to us. We thought it was an attempt to prevent an erection. Later on another man did this also but while lying on his beach towel. I never noticed any women trying overtly to keep her legs together,  matter of fact a couple of women gave me a little show when they noticed that I was looking at them. I think on a nude beach most people will look and expect to be looked at.

[J&Wu 408]

As nudists we try for an even all over tan with no pale creases around armpits, buttocks and genitals. I would say that is pretty much true of most of the crowd at the AANR facilities we visit.

[J&Wu 408]

On 7/8/2014 at 1:05 PM, couplers said:

 

I've seen it done. Not a pretty sight.

It can be a satisfying part of cross dressing or just wanting to look like mommy naked🙃now and then without true sexual dysphoria to point of transition.

[couplers 4,614]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:06 AM, let's do it again said:

the man was on his lounge chair and tucked his cock between his thighs

 

11 hours ago, J&Wu said:

It can be a satisfying part of cross dressing or just wanting to look like mommy naked🙃now and then without true sexual dysphoria to point of transition.

An interesting way to play, I suppose. 

 

On 3/20/2023 at 10:06 AM, let's do it again said:

I never noticed any women trying overtly to keep her legs together,  matter of fact a couple of women gave me a little show when they noticed that I was looking at them.

The nudity of the people in such a situation is a common undertaking, and I don't mind if someone wants to look at me.  I too will part my legs slightly to improve the view.

 

I find myself looking much more at other women than the men. 

[let's do it again 414]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:35 AM, couplers said:

 

An interesting way to play, I suppose. 

 

The nudity of the people in such a situation is a common undertaking, and I don't mind if someone wants to look at me.  I too will part my legs slightly to improve the view.

 

I find myself looking much more at other women than the men. 

Do you feel that women will expose a little more to give you a good look. I had a blonde British woman sit on her lounge chair and opened her legs and rubbed her pussy for my benefit.

[couplers 4,614]

18 hours ago, let's do it again said:

Do you feel that women will expose a little more to give you a good look.

IDK if they are doing it deliberately, but when talking with women in non-sexual, nude situations women have both exposed and positioned themselves so that I have had a better view.  I have reciprocated.  I'm no longer ashamed of my big clit, large lips pussy that looks out of place on scrawny me, so if a woman wants to look at it or talk about it, that's fine.

 

Only once did I think it was a possible Lesbian pickup.  I declined. 

[J&Wu 408]

On 7/8/2014 at 12:34 PM, sunbuckus said:

 

It's not like they can neatly tuck their penis between their thighs and do the penguin walk! Or can they....

I think it was the "Puppetry of the Penus" Show guys who demoed that for the crowd. They are a flexible crew, I don't think I could have stayed flexible enough for all the origami constructs and maipulations they did/do up in front of a crowd when I was younger. 

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

A brief perspective on "modesty". 

 

It's well to remember that modesty is a social and cultural construct. In primitive tribes, loincloths are worn as a matter of protection, furs (and other clothes) as a protection against the elements. Otherwise, there is nothing immodest about exposing the human body. 

 

In that most regimented of Western societies (Japan) communal nude bathing is embedded in the social construct. In Germany, the home of Freikörperkultur, major cities have parks approved for nude sunbathing. In France, Cap d'Agde is an entire village devoted to naturism and, on a sunny warm day, there will easily be 20,000 multigenerational nudists on the beaches. 

 

In professions such as first responders, the healing arts, etc, those professionals see nude humans every day. Nods are made to patient comfort, but the reality is that ordinary practice means exposure; the modesty issue is in the mind of the client/patient. 

 

Staying nude is a natural state. It is not inherently sexual, it is not inherently exhibitionistic, it is not inherently immodest. Adults sleep nude, bathe nude, swim nude, clean house nude, and so on. We need to stop judging people based on how much and what kind of epidermis is visible. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Fundamental Law
placed the umlaut in Freikörperkultur

[couplers 4,614]

1 hour ago, Fundamental Law said:

Edited 53 minutes ago by Fundamental Law
placed the umlaut in Freikörperkultur

I've always seen it abbreviated as FKK.  Much easier. 

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

12 minutes ago, couplers said:

I've always seen it abbreviated as FKK.  Much easier. 

Yes, easier. That said, the editors in us require us to "spell it out" at first usage.

 

[couplers 4,614]

The adherents of free body culture in Frankfurt take advantage of the fact that their city code gives them a start on their custom license plates.