How swinging differs in other countries

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It seems that the diversity of this board has greatly increased of recent months. We've seen many more folks coming in from other parts of the world, something I am very happy to finally be seeing.

 

With that we have noticed a few things that seem to be different in various parts of the world. The two main things I have noticed are

 

1. Swinging seems to be much more open in general in countries outside the US (especially those in the UK)

 

2. Single males seem to be much more accepted in other areas.

 

On the latter note I'm wondering why. Is it just due to the fact that swingers there are more open in general or is it that the quality of single males in those area is higher?

 

I would love to hear from those who have lived (or even just swung) outside of the US on how swinging is in those areas. Those who have experience both in the US/Canada and in other areas are especially encouraged to share their observations.

[good times 991]

Wow! I just recently noticed a similar thing. One of my friends married an English woman about a year ago. In the past year we have spent a quite a bit of time with them and her two teenage daughters. My wife and I both noticed that they are much more open about all things sexual than anyone we know here. In fact both daughters keep getting expelled from school for "going too far" and the oldest daughter has decided to move back to England because of this. My wife and I are considered very laid back and open sexually by our regular (non lifestyle) friends, and these girls continuously do and say things that shock us. We thought these girls were unique but after reading your comments I'm beginning to think it might just be the regional differences you are referring to here.

[oriel 15]

It is interesting to speculate to what extent differences in attitudes to swinging are related to general cultural mores. For example, I've been told by a friend who lived in Paris that swinging is almost a mainstream way of life there, and the French seem to have a very comfortable attitude to sex in general. By the way, has any one read The Sexual Life of Catherine M?

[Ashley 22]

Yes, I read the book....pretty interesting, she's the sluttiest woman I've ever heard about...lol.

 

I have swung outside the U.S., Amsterdam, and it is different there, people are much more open in general but I did not see any single men that I recall...in fact I think Fun4Two(one of the swing clubs we went to) is couples only or at least on Saturday nights.

 

L lived in Germany for three years and has done a lot of swinging overseas. He says that it is very common for mid-life women to go to the clubs alone to be "satisfied" when their husbands have reached the Viagra stage of life. The only thing I did not like about swinging abroad was the very slight language barrier....the Dutch are taught English in school but it is still not the same, what with our slang and all. To me, half the fun of swinging is laughing and communicating with your partner(s).

[Vjklander 138]

I remember reading a study from England where a University was doing studies and took blood samples from a bunch of people. One of the surprises they found, which they weren't looking for in the beginning was that about 1 in 4 children are not the biological child of the guy they thought was their father. One guy had 11 kids and NONE were his.

[Brit_Pair 62]

Originally posted by Ashley

I have swung outside the U.S., Amsterdam, and it is different there, people are much more open in general but I did not see any single men that I recall...in fact I think Fun4Two(one of the swing clubs we went to) is couples only or at least on Saturday nights.

I think I'm right in saying that Fun4Two is exclusively for couples. That said, a couple can take a single friend along with them some Fridays, but they must play as a trio. The single man can't romp off with whomever he pleases.

[Uneed_Love 15]

Originally posted by oriel

It is interesting to speculate to what extent differences in attitudes to swinging are related to general cultural mores. For example, I've been told by a friend who lived in Paris that swinging is almost a mainstream way of life there, and the French seem to have a very comfortable attitude to sex in general. By the way, has any one read The Sexual Life of Catherine M?

Well I am going to ponderate Your enthusiasm about our mainstream way of life in Paris.... LOL

 

Yes it's true that new generations are very open about sex. Yes it's true that You can find dozens of swing clubs in PARIS and around but it's not every french family who go there to entertain their life. The prices of those places are expansive and you can only go from time to time except if you are among the happy few who earn big bucks in the cinema, TV, publicity, journalism, radio, etc...

 

For the rest of the country there are swing clubs in the major cities. LYON is a big place for sex (and religion....LOL).

 

In vacations, the females can go topless and wear a string which let's appreciate the shape of the buttocks. The biggest place to have sex in open air was the beach of the Cap d'Agde in the South of France where in the past years you could assist and participate in collective orgies on the sand in the sight of everyone! Nowadays things are calming down and this only can happen in the privacy of the swing clubs. Cap d'Agde remains the world capital of nudism. Each year about 1 million nudists are visiting the city from all over the world...

 

But the orgies on the beaches left the french South coast to go to the Spanish Coast. More sun and less police.

 

I must say that I was very disappointed at the reading of the book of Catherine MILLET... I was expecting something more spicy in the use of the words and the descriptions

 

Have fun.

[Uneed_Love 15]

Originally posted by Ashley

The only thing I did not like about swinging abroad was the very slight language barrier...the Dutch are taught English in school but it is still not the same, what with our slang and all. To me, half the fun of swinging is laughing and communicating with your partner(s).

Ashley, be happy that Germans are taught English because I am not that sure that many people in USA are taught German in exchange.

 

Yes it's hard for us - the foreigners - to understand the way you (US people) are talking with slang, jokes, short words (contraction of the language), or talking dirty because no school would teach us to speak this way!

 

I bet no US school would teach you to speak "dirty" french if you are learning my language. Just my 2 cents here... and I must say that this board is a great place to learn your daily way of speaking (with swearwords such as "holy cow", etc...).... LOL

[Brit_Pair 62]

Originally posted by Uneed_Love

Well I am going to pondarate Your enthusiasm about our mainstream way of life in Paris.... LOL

 

Yes it's true that new generations are very open about sex. Yes it's true that You can find dozens of swing clubs in PARIS and around but it's not every french family who go there to entertain their life. The prices of those places are expansive and you can only go from time to time except if you are amongst the happy few who earn big bucks in the cinema, TV, publicity, journalism, radio, etc...

 

For the rest of the country there are swing clubs in the major cities. LYON is a big place for sex (and religion....LOL).

I recollect having some interesting experiences in Toulon . . .

[omneesx 15]

We felt compelled to respond since we're Americans who recently returned to the states from living in Germany for the last few years. We got to experience more than our share of swinging in Europe and met wonderful people that we miss dearly. In our time there, we got to see that not just the swinging culture was more tolerant, relaxed, and mature but the general sexual culture was just as such. In most countries, sex is seen as a normal, healthy part of life, something not hidden from children but shown in positive light. A person can choose to share this with one or as many people as they like. It is simply a matter of preference that is no one elses business.

 

Upon our return to the states, we were not surprised to see that sex is still dirty. Our visits to Cap d'Agde not only saw various forms of sexual alternative lifestyles, but also happy family life (yes, the place was full of nude kids) being portrayed as just as valid as the other. Our favorite place to visit, Fun4Two (THE lifestyle club) is couples only and manages to allow for many if not all expressions of swinging without pressure or steering toward a particular activity or scene. Everyone we encountered understood the universal language of flirting (and many Dutch speak English) so language wasn't a problem.

 

Single males are tolerated moreso throughout Europe we believe simply because of manners. In our 9 years of swinging experience, single males are simply more polite and courteous in Europe. Not that Europeans don't have their share of hang-ups, but that they manage to keep them private for the sake of the lifestyle community. I suppose we have to say this has been our experience and we may have just been lucky, but then we're busy planning to vacation back as soon as we can.

[Brit_Pair 62]

Great post. It will be interesting (not to say informative) to get your perspectives on other threads.

 

(BTW, welcome to the board.)

[Ashley 22]

omneesx,

Yes welcome and please continue to post. Your Germany experience sounds much the same as L describes, very open. He says Americans specialize in "titillation and repression".

 

I very much enjoyed Fun4Two...the facility is fabulous but the Saturday night we were there, it was much too crowded for my comfort. Sunday afternoon was much better. Do you know the owners well enough to suggest?

 

We are planning to return to Amsterdam in October, for the marathon, but perhaps we will give Fun4Two another go.

[Soulfinger508 16]

Originally posted by Uneed_Love

Ashley be happy that Germans are taught English because I am not that sure that many people in USA are taught German in exchange.

 

Yes it's hard for us - the foreigners - to understand the way You (US people) are talking with slang, jokes, short words (contraction of the language), or talking dirty because no school would teach us to speak this way!

 

I bet no US school would teach You to speak "dirty" french if you are learning my language. Just my 2 cents here... and I must say that this board is a great place to learn your daily way of speaking (with swearwords such as "holy cow", etc...).... LOL

 

 

Did you try body language?

[OhioCouple 40]

Originally posted by Uneed_Love

... and I must say that this board is a great place to learn your daily way of speaking (with swearwords such as "holy cow", etc...)....

JC, "holy cow" is not a swear word in the US. It's about the same as saying "OMGoodness!"

[Alura 2,773]

We met in Europe and were invited to swing on our second date. Had we known each other better, we'd have said "Yes!" We wonder if our marriage would have changed had we accepted.

[Brit_Pair 62]

Originally posted by Alura

We met in Europe and were invited to swing on our second date. Had we known each other better, we'd have said "Yes!" We wonder if our marriage would have changed had we accepted.

Chances are, yes. For better or worse though? Still, at least when the rest of us are debating the creation of the cosmos, or asking ourselves "why are we here?", you guys will be able to sit in front of a roaring fire, a glass of your favourite poison in hand, and say, "I wonder what would have happened if we'd said 'yes'?"

 

Mind you, if you had said yes, it might have qualified you as having one of the fastest moving relationships ever! Those decadent Europeans, eh?

[Alura 2,773]

Originally posted by Brit_Pair

Mind you, if you had said yes, it might have qualified you as having one of the fastest moving relationships ever! Those decadent Europeans, eh?

 

It's hard to believe our relationship might have developed faster, BritPair! You see, it began the previous evening when we went out to dinner after working all today together. We sat and talked in that restaurant for hours. By eleven o'clock we were in bed making love. We've been together ever since.

 

Love those decadent Europeans!

[Uneed_Love 15]

Originally posted by Alura

Love those decadent Europeans!

We Love You too

[Oleg&Lena 43]

This widespread enough phenomenon now. But as well as in any other country, development of any phenomenon or movement begins in large cities. For example, in Moscow and St. Petersburg there are already now swing clubs, and from stories of visitors - very good. But in such city as Samara where person such clubs lives more than 1 million is not present. We live in the Samara region. Our city is very small and to get acquainted with the pair welcoming a swing it is practically impossible. Therefore we search for acquaintances with swingers from cities beside.

 

Our first pair from which we the first time were engaged in sex was from Samara. On that moment they knew almost all to whom the swing in their city is interesting. They have told us, that almost all the swinger pairs from their city are familiar with each other so it is not enough of them. However, many lonely men who would like participate in sex with pair. They are married, but their wives refuse such experiments. In most cases conducting part in a swing to pair - the man. Women in the country are more conservative. Therefore now it is a lot of married couples which yet do not dare to cross a threshold of practical experience, and the swing remains only imagination.

 

But the swing at us in the country constantly develops and grasps minds (wits) of the increasing quantity (amount) of people. Basically it is the pairs married during 8 - 10 years.

 

And all of our society still while is very conservative. The reason - long years of the totalitarian mode, known those years in Russia a phrase "At us in the country of sex is not present".

[bear_n_bunny 43]

This may be a bit off topic, but I've always found it amusing to see people in this country complain about how "sexually repressed" Americans are, compared to other countries.

 

Yet when one looks around, we see that sexuality is part and parcel of everything we (and our kids) see in the media (TV, radio, movies, advertising, and the Internet since it became public), and it has been so since the 1970s. In reality, sex is a pretty open and freely discussed part of this society, and has been so for many years now.

 

And even here in "repressed and reactionary" Texas, Houston has at least five (that I know of) off-premise swing clubs, as well as a few on-premise, and who knows how many private groups around town. And no one bothers them for the most part (except the off-premise clubs are careful about on-premise sex lest the cops pay them a visit). And from what I've seen here and on other sites, it's pretty much the same in cities all over the country.

 

Indeed, according to Uneed_Love, even in sexually liberated France, with it's apparently limited number of nude and/or topless beaches and such (and we have those here as well), had the authorities crack down on people playing slap-and-tickle on the beach, to the point the players had to move to Spain. And that swinging seems to be concentrated in the large cities...just as it is here....

 

And I have not read anything regarding people's swinging experiences in Europe that one could not find here just as easily (except that maybe the single males who impose themselves on the swinger crowd in Europe are not quite as obnoxious as those here in the States... .

 

Something to keep in mind is that it is really rather fallacious to compare other countries to the US when it comes to sexual mores, especially when you are saying that (fill in the blank) is more sexually liberated or what-have-you, and for a couple of reasons. First, there are over a quarter of a billion people living in the United States, compared to the average European country, the average population of which is often measured in no more than the tens of millions (Russia being one exception).

 

Second, most European countries are far more culturally homogenous than the highly balkanized (especially in the last ten years or so) United States, where the sexual mores of these various subcultures are by no means uniform (what do you suppose, let's say, the Muslims in this country would think about swinging, as a group?). This sort of thing can make a big damn difference, because it was learned a long time ago that even a very small group (compared to the population as a whole) can make a great deal of public noise about a particular issue they feel strongly about.

 

(Actually, this last is a bit more complicated, with variables like the particulars of how this or that group goes about making their displeasure known, and more importantly how much attention the mainstream media pays to this or that group, but you should get the idea just the same.)

 

All this being the case, and with all due respect to our European friends, on balance they don't have just a whole lot over us when it comes to being sexually liberated in general and with swinging in particular...

 

Bear

[omneesx 15]

As American that spent some wonderful years living in Europe we must respectfully disagree with Bear's comments.

 

First: Sexually oriented businesses are sanctioned and protected by the state in Europe. You rarely hear of a brothel, couple's club, or sex shop being closed by a local community. These places are against the law in much of the US.

 

Second: The age of consent is higher in the US than anywhere. Many European teenagers are not expected or pressured to remain celibate until marriage. Virginity is not valued as much as experience and self confidence.

 

Third: Has anyone seen a couples club advertised in local media in the US as they do in Europe? Swinging is accessible in our country but not as easy as browsing through the ads in a newspaper.

 

Fourth: Authorities will remove any disruptive sexual display in Europe. In the states, authorities will remove you for wearing a thong on a public beach, let alone going topless, which you can do at any beach, park, or lake in Europe.

 

Fifth: On European evenings on late-nite free TV, you can see adult entertainment that is only available to paying customers here in the States. Not only is porn readily available but many shows considered prime-time by American standards are also shown in this block due to their violent content or adult themes (like pro-wrestling, soap operas, and "reality" TV).

 

We could go on, but we hope we've made our point. When it comes to repression the US wins again.

 

A & L

[imsnowman 34]

It seems that the diversity of this board has greatly increased of recent months. We've seen many more folks coming in from other parts of the world, something I am very happy to finally be seeing.

 

With that we have noticed a few things that seem to be different in various parts of the world. The two main things I have noticed are

 

1. Swinging seems to be much more open in general in countries outside the US (especially those in the UK)

 

2. Single males seem to be much more accepted in other areas.

 

On the latter note I'm wondering why. Is it just due to the fact that swingers there are more open in general or is it that the quality of single males in those area is higher?

 

I would love to hear from those who have lived (or even just swung) outside of the US on how swinging is in those areas. Those who have experience both in the US/Canada and in other areas are especially encouraged to share their observations.

 

I've spent some time in Europe and I'd say it's our Mucho, Macho, the individual-is-all attitude here in the US that makes the single men less attractive and has the men in couples less accepting. Remember we're talking gross generalizations here not talking about anyone individual on this board.

[Fireman412ntee 16]

I definitely agree with may of the other post here. We just got back from living in Europe (Germany) for five years and my wife is Scottish/British. Things there are soooo much more laid back there and it was a little difficult coming back to the States. Now, don't get me wrong, this is still the best country in the world but we have an awful lot of growing up to do. The body and sex are things of beauty and enjoyment. Many in Europe understand that and embrace it. There are those that don't but, generally, that is the case. They couldn't understand what the big deal was about Janet Jackson and the Superbowl fiasco.

 

Swinging is meant to be something fun between adults. Not something to be ashamed of and hidden. I just hope the attitudes in the States eventually change to accept the beauty of the body and the fun that can be had with it.

 

Ok I will get off my soapbox for now. lol

[taomaster 15]

1. Swinging seems to be much more open in general in countries outside the US (especially those in the UK)

 

I agree with the other posts that have pointed out that, in general, sexuality is treated in a much more open and healthy fashion in Europe. So it's not surprising that a particular facet of it, i.e. swinging, would also be more 'out'.

 

We live in a University town with a fair few US exchange students. You can spot the Americans in an instant - especially on a warm summer's day. They're the ones wearing lots of clothes

 

Just because the American media is full of sexual images does not mean that the Puritan influence is not there. Just the opposite, that's why the advertising works so well!

 

(On a side note I'm quite impressed with the Americans who have managed to break through this Puritan conditioning. Quite a feat!)

 

2. Single males seem to be much more accepted in other areas.

 

Maybe because they've learned manners and have a world view that doesn't see 'me first' and 'If I want it all I have to do is demand it (with a gun in hand)' as the way to succeed in life?

 

It's much sexier when a man lets a woman know she is in charge - and treats her male partner with respect.

 

But it is different - we've been to clubs where there have been very pushy males. Not wanting to stereotype but unfortunately the worst behaviour was from men of Arab origin

 

So it seems to me that cultural background plays a big role. Mrs. T. like Frenchmen...

 

Mr. T.

[HotMoCpl 20]

Interesting. I'd like to speculate on "why" its so different in the U.S. Look at the religious end of how people, in general, are in this country. Look at how our laws are. What we have done is opened ourselves and made room for "cheaters" and "predators". I believe our U.S. society places too much emphasis on "religion" then it does on honesty and communication.

[HotMoCpl 20]

I've been reading more and am really entertained with all this European stuff so now I'll talk about the Far East. I spent nearly 5 years in South Korea and I was also married to a Korean woman for nearly 20 years, thank goodness it is over.

 

In general it is accepted that the male is okay with cheating on his wife but the female is not allowed this. BUT! I know of several stories where the wife DID cheat on the hubby with an American! I'm talking your typical "rich bitch" type. When this happens, it most always continues as an affair until the soldier return to the States; after that she finds another soldier to take his place. I also know the "why" behind this. On average, Americans have more length by nearly two inches over Korean men, and much more in girth. Let's just say that I'm familiar enough with the language that, if two Korean women were talking in their language, I can pick up a lot of what they are talking about. In the end? In Korea, China, and Japan, this lifestyle is not very acceptable.

[curiousagain 326]

I remember reading a study from England where a University was doing studies and took blood samples from a bunch of people. One of the surprises they found, which they weren't looking for in the beginning was that about 1 in 4 children are not the biological child of the guy they thought was their father. One guy had 11 kids and NONE were his.

J

 

Same type studies in the US show about 1 in 4 children are not the biological child of their Mother's husband. In some cities it was approaching 40%.

 

That is one reason that biological testing is almost mandatory in any custody/child support fight.

[northindycpl 32]

Has anyone else noted that there is tremendous diversity in the United States too? Especially in age?

 

I have noticed that it seems the younger generation is definitely more open sexually than ours. I have noticed that there are so many really young (21-27) people at the clubs, on sites etc... Maybe because our favorite club is in a college town, I am not sure, but there does seem to be an insurgence of youth there.

 

On a side note, there was a professor that visited our club from Russia and the vast etiquette differences were extreme! So much that I think the guy broke every rule in the club, before he was escorted out.

[taomaster 15]

 

On a side note, there was a professor that visited our club from Russia and the vast etiquette differences were extreme! So much that I think the guy broke every rule in the club, before he was escorted out.

 

I've had a bit to do with Russians. Lovely people, but hide the vodka. And whatever you do, never, ever, accept a 'see how much we can drink' (neat shots) dare. You'll lose.

 

The hangover lasted 25 years. And there were witnesses to my disgraceful state as well. And who was that Polish women I ended up with...

[romy 15]

I've been reading more and am really entertained with all this European stuff so now I'll talk about the Far East. I spent nearly 5 years in South Korea and I was also married to a Korean woman for nearly 20 years, thank goodness it is over.

 

In general it is accepted that the male is okay with cheating on his wife but the female is not allowed this. BUT! I know of several stories where the wife DID cheat on the hubby with an American! I'm talking your typical "rich bitch" type. When this happens, it most always continues as an affair until the soldier return to the States; after that she finds another soldier to take his place. I also know the "why" behind this. On average, Americans have more length by nearly two inches over Korean men, and much more in girth. Let's just say that I'm familiar enough with the language that, if two Korean women were talking in their language, I can pick up a lot of what they are talking about. In the end? In Korea, China, and Japan, this lifestyle is not very acceptable.

 

I don't know when you were here but times sure have changed. Less so in Korea that is more xenophobic than Japan. In Japan now there are so many swinger clubs and online clubs. Just take a look at AFF. When we ask new girls to join us we haven't as of yet had a negative reply. Quite the contrary most girls are very enthusiastic. A girl we introduced this last x-mas had no problem going down on my wife with me at all her first time or taking me from behind while my friend was in her mouth. China too is changing fast too. Korea is still the laggard. As for the rest of Asia it has almost always been open sexually with the exception of Muslim countries which are changing, albeit at a snail's pace.

[Sunnylow67 15]

Reporting from Singapore here.

 

The scene in Singapore is definitely changing in the past 10 years I'm here. Westerners are considered as a part of the race living here, so we have Chinese, Malays, Indians and Westerners in general (a lot of British and Australians).

 

The Malays are almost 100% Muslim but the younger Malay girls are considered the hottest here. They are very open towards sex. Strange.

 

The Chinese are split between the conservatives and the moderns (or so-called-western-thinking). At one stage, the local Chinese men complained about loosing their girls to Western men.

 

So there was a term here called SPG (Sarong Party Girl). Sarong is a piece cloth, waist to knee length, wrapped around the waist to form a skirt. This calling to a girl is a very derogative term. Thus, try not to use it on any girl.

 

However, it seems that they have eventually become quite indifferent towards race nowadays. In the local swinger mailing list that I am in, we have Indians, Chinese, Westerners, and Malays in it.

 

The government's stance is similar to that in the US. To a certain extent, I view it to be quite hypocritical. They air all the cruel butchery of humans on TVs but censored all the sex scenes in movies and TVs. On the street however, we see girls dressing up in mini skirts and sometimes in bikini tops. One night stands (ONS as they termed it), is becoming quite common these days. Gay societies are becoming stronger by the days although they are somewhat underground.

 

There's a danger of deceiving ourselves when we try to sweep things we consider as "ugly" under the carpet. A bigger problem is ominous.

 

So if you happen to pass by here, do contact me and I'll show you around.

 

Thanks.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I know we have some new folks on the board from Europe and other areas, maybe they can add their views on this thread.

[CrimsonCrew 15]

You must be amazed on the diversity front. We have seen couples swinging in Pakistan..Isn't that amazing or wonderful or both? BTW we are from Pakistan..

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

You must be amazed on the diversity front. We have seen couples swinging in Pakistan..Isnt that amazing or wonderful or both? BTW we are from Pakistan..

 

So how does swinging differ in Pakistan? Or does it?

[CrimsonCrew 15]

Pretty much the same. Except that it is very hush hush and couples in the higher income brackets do it (read super rich) with lots of exposure to foreign countries (by way of travel).

 

We started when we were in Pakistan and continued after we moved here. My (wife) point of view was that it done everywhere regardless of a country or religion and people do indeed enjoy it.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Pretty much the same. except that it is very hush hush and couples in the higher income brackets do it (read super rich) with lots of exposure to foriegn countries (by way of travel).

 

 

So is it pretty much invitation only then?

[ncmd_couple 597]

Julie,

 

Your reviving older topics is interesting. And I found this one to be enlightening as well.

 

Crimson,

 

I find it very interesting that swinging is going on in Pakistan. I would think that it would be a dangerous lifestyle in Middle Eastern countries. But then, I have never been there, so your views are very interesting to me. How long have you and your wife been in the states?

[CrimsonCrew 15]

NMCD, It's the wife here. We both use the same screen name.

 

You would be surprised to know what goes on in Pakistan in particular and middle east in general (BTW Pakistan is in South East Asia and Middle East is like Saudi Arabia and Dubai).

 

In our experience Dubai or the Arab nations are very modern nations. If we discuss openness in sex than Iran is the most open nation (difference is that everything happens in the comfort of homes, and those same people wear hijab and head coverings in public. Amazing huh?)

 

I must say, even though the frequency may be lower than US for example, but things are there, people just don't talk about it in open.

 

We have been here for 6 years now. My husband just completed his PhD here.

[CrimsonCrew 15]

Julie:

You might groups of friends, very close circles...

[ncmd_couple 597]

CrimsonCrew,

 

You are right about South East Asia and Middle East. I guess that from this distance I wasn't paying attention to my terminology! Congratulations on your husbands PHD! An old friend of mine is married to a surviver of the Afghan Royal Family, she was in London when the Russians came in. So I base most of my views from my knowledge of her, and she is a difficult woman to get to know even after knowing her for 25 years. I guess that people are just people, and they are going to do what they want behind closed doors if the society doesn't agree with what they are doing. It is the same here in the states really. Are you two going back to Pakistan or staying here?

[ratimadan 75]

So what's new about Europeans being more open about swinging and sex in general. We Americans are a puritanical people and consider sex dirty and sinful activity. Our politicians of whatever stripe promote this attitude. Or, is it one of those hypocritical, holier than thou, attitudes that Americans are known for.

[CrimsonCrew 15]

NMCD

Thank you and Yes, for the time being we intend to remain here. Long time plans? Haven't decided yet.

[sereneiders 263]

Long ago I was wondering about the way cultural differences affects swinging in a thread, but I couldn't find it.

 

Let's shift to Latin America. I am from Argentina, a country that isn't representative for the rest of the continent, moreover in the big cities, due to the immigration we've got, leading to a mix of cultures comparable with the one in the US (mostly from Latin European countries: Spain and Italy, then Europeans escaping from the WWII, people from Middle East -thus having a coexisting Jew and Muslim communities, and Orient). Buenos Aires shows a weird mix of European architecture because of this.

 

Our society was pretty conservative, although more open regarding people's physical contact: is often common to greet people you don't know with a kiss, even in places like a work environment. People are way more "touchy" than in the US. This conservativeness was broken after the last dictatorial government, 30 years ago, when we embraced tolerance as a valuable good to keep and reinforce. Besides, psychology is a respectable field even among the regular guys (to attend a counseling isn't ill seen, moreover is appreciated as a way to improve yourself as a person) so people trend to be analytical regarding human behavior, which includes the way the sexuality is perceived.

 

I never went to the US as to be able to compare, but a girlfriend of us (who played with us as a threesome) came here and pointed out several differences she noticed. It called her attention the amount of crossdressers walking by in the streets or at bars, pointing out they wasn't as discriminated as in the US... even when local laws doesn't follow this lead, nor protect their rights the same way the US laws does. Generally speaking, she said people behave on their own as if they were honoring the US laws regarding privacy and personal rights, even when the laws didn't reflect this, as opposed to the US where people trends to be less respectful of privacy and personal rights than what's stated by the law (her words, I don't know!).

 

From what I've read here from Europe, it seems we follow their lead regarding sexuality. We don't do topless at beaches, but in late night you have sexual oriented/violent content on TV as (from what was posted) you'd expect from special paid channels (that we have as well). As example, this girlfriend was amazed from a local TV advertising she saw at 10 AM on a news channel from an insurance company: a guy driving his car on a road crashes against a tree after avoiding to hit an animal. Instead of the airbag, it pops out an inflatable sex doll with her legs over his, "with us you'll have immediate satisfaction". Upon her words, such ad wouldn't be allowed on open TV at 10 AM where she lives.

 

At Buenos Aires we have half a dozen swinger's clubs, there exist one magazine devoted to swingers you can buy at any newspaper store, and it is shown openly as porn magazines are (those stores are in the streets, so at first glance of anyone walking by). Clubs are on-premise and more like discotheques, no need to register, although some require you to call in advance unless being a regular. Except for one installed as a hotel with rooms, the remaining have seldom public places where to have sex, and some allow the action to take place anywhere (dance floor, or over the bar), so usually gals dance in topless. Selling alcohol is legal, they offer stripper shows, singles are allowed but discouraged on Saturday nights, and even one of them opens during the week on day times to organize gangbangs. Besides, there are several "on premise non swinger's clubs" (if there exist such a thing), i.e., discotheques with public places to have sex, but without any swingers etiquette code. Clubs and discotheques are open from 11 PM-1AM to 9 AM, and there are "after hours" clubs that open from then and on (so you could spend all day long partying... if you're crazy enough).

 

Swingers get to know each other mostly at clubs and private meetings, and in forums and devoted chat rooms in the web.

 

But I guess we all end up having the same sort of fun, no matter where we are in the world!!!!

[Malachista 170]

oh... as for seeing naked people on TV: A lot of shampoo or shower gel commercials will feature naked breasts at any time of the day

[absingleman 178]

During my two years in Germany and the weekend trips I made to Austria, Italy, and Sweden, I found that the people were less embarrassed to openly talk about their own sex life or even proposition you for sex, but they were also very protective when asked about someone else's sex life unless that person was there and gave their permission. If I was interested in someone the answer was "Just ask them, or you really don't want it". Swinging was apparent but not talked about, basically for the same reason. Everyone knew it was there but they didn't go around exposing anyone's secrets. The right conversations in the proper manner opened a lot of back doors (;p) to clubs and house parties, but here you have to do a lot of name dropping to get into those same social circles.

[Glida 250]

I'm from the UK but we live in Israel (Mr Glida is Israeli)...we've only ever played in Israel so I can't compare but I will say here, people seem to be very open and casual about playing,we have never met a couple with 'rules' like no kissing which I've heard is a rule for some but certainly not here. you are either a soft swap or full swap!

 

Or perhaps there is no rule about asking before touching There are two kinds of parties here, one where everybody gets to know everybody else and can be selective or even just meet other couples, swap details and meet them again...like a way of just meeting people if you don't want to play that night...And other get-togethers where it's everybody with everybody no questions asked. Here there would be no 'asking before touching' it would just be assumed that you're fair game...I was at one party once where we had meet another couple and the 4 of us had gone to a separate room to be a little more intimate and after about 10 minutes, one guy walks in, takes off his shirt and just starts kissing the other girl....his partner was nowhere to be seen, he just felt like playing with the lovely blonde lady....now!

 

Organized parties here a few and far between, and the protocol is that if you are at a party and feel like playing that you are not allowed to enter the play rooms without a partner, you can only go in as a couple (unless you are a woman) I don't know how it is in other countries....

 

There aren't many clubs and organized parties here so most swingers have private parties in their homes, it's hit and miss really what you find once you get there.

 

And soooo many fakes, people who send other people pictures, people lying about their marital status, some people just want to get laid so they bring along a casual girlfriend who will pretend to be the wife for the evening, just so he can 'get his rocks off' because all of us swingers must be 'easy' and up for it.

 

You do meet lovely couples, genuine, fun and 'together' but you need to do a lot of filtering first!

[Guest]

One of the things I like about Desires is the nice mix of people from around the world. When there, we have met a lot of Canadians, folks from the UK, Scotland, Belgium, Finland, India, Israel, Brazil, Columbia, the Azores, even Russia.

[Farcanal 32]

The biggest thing I found to overcome was the language barrier. Most people in western Europe speak English and a few speak a language that they fondly call English!

 

I found that just be polite and respectful and never divulge any info on any others and it is cool. The French can, at times, be somewhat pompous but it's usually just a front. Swingers in Poland can be a bit distant until you get to know them well. Slovaks are good too (the language there is a dialect of Russian), Czechs are very laid back and easy to approach. Hungarians are a bit reserved too but cool once you get to know them. Romanians are quite friendly so are the Bulgars. Ukrainians are open and friendly but not many swingers there at present. Georgians are always prepared to invite you to their parties (swinging is done in private houses there). Russia -- well 'nuff said. If you're a single bloke you can get a shot away anytime in Russia!

[msgemily 30]

I am from Eastern Europe but have traveled the world and now settled in USA. Here I'll mention some experiences...

 

France - Les Chandelles in Paris is my favorite place. France is swingers paradise I would say. About 300 clubs in Paris alone. Not to mention Cap d'Agde seaside resort town. Communication between couples is as easy as ordering coffee. Sometimes ordering coffee is even a more nightmare

 

Spain - Ibiza the place to be. Malaga Costa del Sol, Valencia etc have lots and lots of swinging clubs. Couples are very friendly and speak many languages although you might meet someone you like which may not know english. Always good to have some information about the location you are visiting not to end up explaining you like someone and hearing "por favor" to no end... por favor

 

Poland/Czech/Hungary - Half the world travels here for well basically hooking up and alcohol. Major problem is language. And couples are uptight. It all depends on who you know locally. If you know someone things get much easier as many couples would only communicate about swinging where they can trust the crowd. And they are specially shy for foreign visitors. Basically YMMV depends on your luck. Bisexuality is seen as a taboo and men are very dominating in the region. So very very few couples who actually are open about this.

 

Italy - More touristy and less communication friendly. There are few clubs in Milan and Rome. But my luck has been terrible in this country.

 

Germany - If you can cross the language barrier very swingers friendly. Kinkiest country in Europe. I have spent many months here with my boyfriend since it is a BDSM mecca. I have never had problem in this country and locals are very open and direct about this lifestyle.

[DnM69 70]

Well down here in New Zealand everyone is uptight when it comes to talking about sex and even at parties it can be difficult getting people to talk about it. The kink and BDSM scene is however quite large. We only have about 5 clubs in the whole country and most swinging is done privately, with I assume hookups from the online community. I assume this as we have never met anyone from an online site that we have wanted to play with, and there appear to be a lot of fakes on the sites here.

 

However we have met some great people at a club and the local regular house party we attend. These genuine people have all been very welcoming and friendly but a little slow to accept new people.