Bothered by who should be point of contact for her first separate playdate?!

[NYFlirts 158]

For two years we've had a no-hall-pass / no-separate-date rule.

 

Well, that is until we started a semi-poly relationship with another couple.

 

A few of our swinger friends know about this relationship. In the past, a few of the guys in those couples have asked if we play separate. Well, now that they are getting word that we are playing separate, they are chomping at the bit! We've been pretty clear that this is the first time we've done this and so far we're only comfortable doing it with this couple because we are BOTH doing it, and doing it with a couple that knows each other, etc.

 

Well, yesterday one of the guys texted my wife (they have messaged a little in the past when we used to all play together) and asked if she is playing separate and if she'd be interested in going out on a date with him.

 

At first I wasn't bothered, but then I started to think about it: He and I have texted way more and have more of a "relationship" than he and she do. Since he knows this is something we haven't wanted to do in the past, why wouldn't he come to me first and ask me if it was ok? I mean, in the same situation, I wouldn't have gone right to the girl and done that. I would have totally talked to the guy first. I hate being "circumvented / stepped-over" and would never do that to someone else.

 

So, I'm a bit bothered by this. Not really upset, and I like the guy and think he's pretty harmless, so I have no intention of talking to him about it. I'm just wondering what y'all think.

 

In a situation where you were pretty good friends with a couple and knew they were just new to stuff, would you think the guy should go direct to the girl, or get the "ok" from the guy first?

[Lionheart72 2,189]

I have a couple of thoughts...

 

First, ask yourself this: why should he ask you? He doesn't want to play with you, he wants to play with her. She's the one to ask. IMO, it is your wife's responsibility to talk to you about it. If you think about it, wanting him to ask you first might reveal a measure of distrust. The only reason I can think of that it would really be an issue is if he asked, she said yes and she didn't tell you. After all, if he asked her, and she says no, there is no problem. Right? So the question is, do you trust your wife to say no and/or to include you in the discussion?

 

Edit: A point I left out, I do think he should also talk to you about it but that it is reasonable for him to talk to her first.

 

Second, perhaps you need to be clearer with other people about the terms of your relationship. From what I'm hearing, you're not "playing separately" in a general sense. Rather, you have a special relationship with this one couple. It think if you (as a couple) made that clear to your other friends that might help prevent this kind of thing.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I have to admit, I'm conflicted about this situation. On one hand, every sound advice I've read, received, and given is to verify with the spouse of the swing partner you are playing with. For example, during our very first experience the husband of the other swing couple asked Mr. Sun at every step of the way if it was okay to ______ me. He was respectful and conscientious that we were newbies and that something that we thought was okay might not really be okay in the heat of the moment. Same advice goes for when one half of a couple says they are free to play separately (like for a threesome)...we advise to reach out to their spouse to verify.

 

However, I can also understand Lionheart's position...but it does make a big assumption that the other couple's relationship is as great about trust and communication as yours. It seems natural to ask the person you wish to go out with directly and allow them to do the communication with their spouse to see if everything gets the green light. Or it could be making the assumption that their relationship may have reached a point of being a completely open relationship.

 

If Mr. Sun said to the other couple, "Yes, we are comfortable with sexting," and the other wife verifies with me if I'm really okay with it, I would not be offended by her question and would probably think much higher of her for being respectful of our relationship and my part in the group dynamics. If I were in Mr. Sun's place (telling the other couple that we can sext), and the other husband went to Mr. Sun to verify, I would be happy that they hold him in high enough regard to make sure he is comfortable with that activity.

 

I must agree with Lionheart's last bit completely though...make it much more clear to all of your other swinger friends that you two have a special relationship with this other couple and that is why you are comfortable with playing separately with them. If they get their feelings hurt, tough nuggets.

[Brad145 58]

Maybe I'm the exception, but when something similar happened to us (except we had made it clear that we never play separate) and a guy asked my wife out several times after being told we aren't interested, I paid a little 'visit' to him and his wife and made it very clear that I consider his behaviour a threat.

 

Haven't seen them since....

 

Sometimes you have to asshole-up or people will take advantage of you.

[Lionheart72 2,189]

However, I can also understand Lionheart's position...but it does make a big assumption that the other couple's relationship is as great about trust and communication as yours. It seems natural to ask the person you wish to go out with directly and allow them to do the communication with their spouse to see if everything gets the green light. Or it could be making the assumption that their relationship may have reached a point of being a completely open relationship.

 

I think my assumption is that if I know a couple is engaging in separate play, then part of my knowing that is knowing they are in a place in their relationship where they have the trust and communication to engage in separate play. If I don't know that they do separate play, and don't have that trust, then I wouldn't ask. Conversely, if my wife and I are engaged in any type of respectful non-monogamy, than by definition I trust her enough to follow the rules and guidelines we have laid down. If we've agreed separate play is OK, then I trust her to follow the rules we have for separate play. If we don't do separate play and someone asks her about it, I trust her to decline. If I didn't trust her, we wouldn't be swinging in the first place.

[Lionheart72 2,189]

... and I suddenly think I've answered the wrong question.

 

So, I'm a bit bothered by this. Not really upset, and I like the guy and think he's pretty harmless, so I have no intention of talking to him about it. I'm just wondering what y'all think.

 

It's OK for you to be bothered by this. That's what you are feeling, so be honest and embrace it. Figure out why you are bothered by this.

 

I'm guessing, but my guess is that you are ok with playing separately in this one special relationship but you are not ok with playing separately in general. If that's the case, that's fine. Not everyone does separate play. Just because you do do it with one specific couple, does not mean you have to do it with everyone.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I think my assumption is that if I know a couple is engaging in separate play, then part of my knowing that is knowing they are in a place in their relationship where they have the trust and communication to engage in separate play. If I don't know that they do separate play, and don't have that trust, then I wouldn't ask. Conversely, if my wife and I are engaged in any type of respectful non-monogamy, than by definition I trust her enough to follow the rules and guidelines we have laid down. If we've agreed separate play is OK, then I trust her to follow the rules we have for separate play. If we don't do separate play and someone asks her about it, I trust her to decline. If I didn't trust her, we wouldn't be swinging in the first place.

 

Yes, I understand the assumptions and it seems logical...but we often forget that others have the same trust and respect as our own relationship. Others might say they do separate play but they are really cheating. Or they might be engaging it as a last attempt to salvaging their relationship and don't really consider the same aspects of how their actions may/may not seem to a relationship that is on strong foundation. As they always say, assuming makes an ass...well, you know. I think for anyone doing separate play, they should exhibit consideration and respect for everyone involved...just as if they were doing couple play.

 

Perhaps the crux of the problem is that this is coming from a guy he thought he was good friends with but then he behaved in a way that seems to undermine that friendship. Combine that with all of the other emotions due to the possibility of Mrs. NYFlirts playing separately with "friend" and being new to playing separately with special couple...it can probably be unnerving.

[msgemily 30]

In a situation where you were pretty good friends with a couple and knew they were just new to stuff, would you think the guy should go direct to the girl, or get the "ok" from the guy first?

 

One of my friends has the exact same situation. Separate play poly relationship with another couple. Then some other friendly couple they met and trusted communicated with him initially. Then the guy going through a relationship problem (didn't informed my friend) bypassed him and communicated with his wife directly. Initially he let it slide. But wife kind of broke the communication part between them and the rules since she thought he already knows and accepts the interaction.

 

After 6 months of play, rules got flexible for her. The other couple went through a divorce. And my friend's wife asked for a divorce. And now his wife and the other guy are happily settled.

 

Swinging for me started as a couple, and I would not accept any communication where I have to inform my bf about something that is going on behind his back. I would like it if the guy informed him first. My bf goes that extra mile to get my opinion and inform me about his interaction with other women even though he has full trust and freedom from me and I appreciate him for it. He may end up with this same question and confused if I allow direct interactions. Many things can go wrong, I rather not take the chance. Doesn't matter how much I trust the friends.

[NYFlirts 158]

Great discussion, thanks everyone!

 

A few points:

 

1) We've told this guy (and everyone else) that we don't do separate play... and said it a few times. He's heard that we have been doing private dates with this other couple... and ONLY this other couple, and I think he got his hopes up.

 

2) In this case, the guy knows me and knows our relationship and IMO *should* know that he should have come to me first to ask it it was ok.

 

Another guy that's in the same position (has asked a few times over the years and been told "no") also knows we're seeing this other couple, and he had the respect to come to me directly.

 

I think I'm also mostly bothered because I always try to err on the side of caution and know I'd never do that knowing what he knows.

[msgemily 30]

1) Yes if he got his hopes up then as per communication with your wife you both should be on the same opinion about things. Guy who heard that you have been doing private dates is going to try of course. For that matter the bar guy serving her drinks might also give a try but then men are men. I agree that you have clearly stated to others that the hall pass is for this couple only. In that case your wife shouldn't be using the hall pass for the other guy. It's breach of trust and in my opinion it is not your fault. It was her choice.

 

2) Yes he crossed his boundaries. But if he is doing that then it is your wife's role to put down the request, doesn't matter what event she's in or how much she likes the other guy if at all. Trust gets compromised. It would be like telling the other guy I have a hall pass and don't care about the consequences my husband will face. He circumvented / stepped-over because he was allowed to do so. Knowing when to say "No" is as crucial as knowing when to say Yes.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

This is just my opinion as a wife who plays alone rarely, under special circumstances.

 

If someone wants to play with me they should ask me. I'm my own person; my husband doesn't own me. If I want to play with someone then I will discuss it with my husband and get his ok. If the third person wants to verify that it is ok then they are welcome to talk to my husband after I agree to play. I would be turned off by someone asking my husband instead of me. It seems archaic.

 

I'm also of the opinion that it never hurts to ask. Asking repeatedly is rude, but asking once is not a problem for me. So since it's common knowledge that your rule has changed for one couple I can understand other friends inquiring.

[Guest sandraandalex]

I think this is my first post here, usually it's my wife. I may be only 26, but I would not ever think of inquiring something so personal in a text message. Since so many things can go wrong, my thought would be how could the least number of things go wrong. For that to happen you have to be very transparent and very grown up. For me it would be to ask the both of you,"I've heard your dynamics have changed and it would be great to be part of that if you both think it would be as much fun as I do. Let me know." There are variations on this, but this creates the fewest surprises. By being completely transparent, they both know. If the woman is bothered that I raised the topic with both of them, well, I'm probably not for her. I would want NOTHING to suggest the idea of adultery. They have to be both as 'in' as if we were playing in the same room. If not, I don't care if she's the lay of the century , it is not going to go well.

 

Also, I can agree with the woman from Dayton Ohio, in that I never would ask the husband first. For me, asking them both eliminates getting her to agree and verifying it with him. By asking both of them, at the same time, it's no muss, no fuss and I can see if either of them 'flinches' at the idea, even if they're going to get back to me later. Oh, and once asked, the ball is in there court, to reply. If I didn't hear back, I'd take that as a 'no' and not concern myself further.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I would be turned off by someone asking my husband instead of me. It seems archaic.

 

This is part of why I was conflicted about this. However, in my mind, it's more about making sure everyone is on the same page and that there isn't any cheating or going behind someone's back, especially if this is just a one time. If this is going to be an ongoing separate dates situation, then after the verification that there is no cheating and it's clear that the relationship is an open and honest one where communication is always ongoing, then future "asking out" can be done directly to the person who they want to take out. I'm beginning to think that sandraandalex has it correct in these situations--do it in person with everyone involved present.

[NYFlirts 158]

Great discussion!

 

So, IMO, the fact that there are so many different perspectives on this proves that people probably should err on the side of caution and either ask the husband his thoughts and/or both of the people in the couple at the same time.

 

Regarding the "ownership" aspect of asking me: I do take a little issue with this. I don't "own" my wife, but I am a big part of the relationship and her activities in this lifestyle 100% directly impact me. I'm not saying the guy should have asked me to let my wife play with him... I'm saying he should have come to me and said, "Hey, independent of your wife, how do YOU feel about me asking her if she wants to go on a private date with me?"