Would you sign legal documents to attend swingers party?

[Fours Company 169]

Hi everyone. It's been a very long time since I've been able to visit the board and while some of it had to do with LS related reasons (including discussions here at the time) and I felt I needed a break; most of it was simply a matter of time and lack of enthusiasm caused by employment and other non LS issues. While we've still been semi-active in the LS throughout this time, a recent issue has caused me to have to turn to the only place I know to get logical and sage advice.

 

We've been invited to a private party by our good friends and play couple hosted by a couple they claim they've known for years. Since this other couple has never met us, we are required to sign a privacy agreement that while written like a legal contract (one of them is an attorney) basically says if we disclose any information about others attending we can be sued. Now understand, we very much believe in the need for discretion in the LS and are not the "fuck & tell" type and can understand others wanting to assure that same discretion especially given vanilla society's view toward swinging and thus don't have an issue swearing an oath or allegiance or whatever one wants to phrase it to that effect.

 

Our issue is thus not so much then the reasoning behind it, but the fact this agreement requires a lot of personal information, IMO. While we have no problem of course giving new couples our first names and even our phone or email info if there is trust, I guess my sticking point is the part requiring last names and full home address and to a lesser extent several questions dealing with our relationship and experience in the LS.

 

While we are an open book with our play couple it had taken us a few sessions to build up that trust and we do not feel comfortable revealing certain info to new people regardless of their need for reassurance to protect their "interests". What likely does not sit well with us either is the fact the need for trust seems one-way: while we must "prove" our sincerity for discretion despite our friends vouching for us, we must trust their vouching for the hosting couple that this is totally necessary and our info will be protected and they don't understand the big deal we are making out of this to the point of accusations of paranoia.

 

So has anyone else ever heard of such a requirement at a LS event, let alone a private party, and what would you do or have you done in such a situation? Am I really making a big deal about this or is my "red alert" somewhat justified? Do you feel like no matter how the need for trust in the LS, there is always some risk involved and trying to migrate that risk under the guise of a legal agreement and revealing personal info is over the top and takes the "fun" out of meeting new people or is such a move entirely valid in today's "expose all secrets" climate of vanilla society?

 

I look forward to any help of the fine, knowledgeable members here who've proven so invaluable in the past and hopefully I can find the time to reintegrate myself back into the community here and participate more again.

[AngelandTiger 364]

I would classify this, on the whole, as a rather resounding red alert. I agree that the one way disclosure is problematic.

 

T

[SW_PA_Couple 4,026]

Never heard of and never dreamed of such a thing. Makes a good story, however, to tell at the kind of parties that do not require a legal contract.

 

Or maybe just tell them you'll do it if your own legal council can be present.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Great to see you back in the forums again!

 

Before I even got to the part where you pointed it out in your post, what first came into my head was - ok, so you say you need this since you don't know us and therefore don't trust us, but working by those rules, we don't know or trust you either. So, guess that leaves us in a stand-off then eh????

 

No way in hell would we get involved in something like this. I likely would have literally laughed out loud right in someone's face if asked to do something like that. Not in an attempt to be intentionally confrontational about it, but just from the shock and silliness of the whole situation. My advice is just to say "sorry, we don't really want to get involved in something that seems like this much hassle, but good luck with your party" and then just move on.

[Guest Ready2dewit]

I think the best thing to do would be to counter with a request for SSN and driver's license numbers, as well as a list of all jurisdictions that the attendees have lived in for the last 10 years so you can do a full TSA-compliant security check. While they are gathering that, have them go ahead and sign a release of healthcare information form.......you can't be too careful.

 

I think the lesson to be learned here is don't play with lawyers. Requiring anything to be signed just to attend a party is like asking to be blackmailed at some point, let alone probably stalked.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Swingers clubs have a reason to do it, so I don't mind it then. Legally, they are a "private club", and you are a member of the private club, not a public customer, which gets them around all sorts of regulations regarding alcohol, etc. Many of them wouldn't be allowed to exist if they tried to organize themselves as just your typical nightclub.

[CB&DD 219]

We agree with the above statements about avoiding that situation. While we can understand a waiver at a club due to legalities and them needing to cover themselves, a waiver for a private house party seems both unnecessary and a little strange. Seems like a red flag to us.

[Fours Company 169]

Thank you all so far for the intelligent and informative answers and one of the things I missed about this community when I was away (and thanks to cplnuswing for the welcome back).

 

This has been one of these things that I feel like I've been forced into two minds over. On one hand we trust our friends when they say they trust this other couple and nothing bad has ever come over these agreements in the years they've known them and we did want to attend this party both to spend time with our play couple and to meet others especially given our vanilla constraints, the only way we've been able to meet others is through them.

 

On the other hand, by not attending because of our uncomfortableness over this we risk upsetting our friends, who already think we're being silly over this, as well as having no other New Years options in it's place, LS or vanilla.

 

As I stated our sticking point is not so much this other couple's automatic assumption we are going to expose everyone there to vanillas (though that is a significant part) but leaving a permanent record of our involvement in the LS by having to fill out a form that requires a last name and home address.

 

While I might believe our friends as far as this other couple not deliberately using this information against anyone (since they also would be exposing themselves and claim it is also for our protection as well), in this day and age anyone with sense knows private info can get away from someone no matter how well the promise of confidentiality. Databases can get hacked (just ask Target & Home Depot), to say nothing of what will happen to all those signed agreements after they decide to no longer wish to have parties or even if they are no longer around. What will their relatives do with it? Will they just be discarded in the trash the same way a lawyer's office in our area had recently done with their legal forms after he died? We just don't feel comfortable having the potential of anything proof-positive tie the "real" us back to having attended a swinger's party should the info get out of the control of the holder for whatever reason, malicious or not.

 

So I guess when all that's said and done we might have to nix the whole thing even at the cost of upsetting our friends and missing what might be an otherwise good party, though that fun would likely be diminished even if I gave in, since once I get a bad taste about something, it's hard for me to move beyond it and enjoy it. At least, there seems a general consensus here that I'm not being paranoid over this and find it obtrusive.

[Alura 2,775]

My guess these folks are trying to protect themselves in a suit-happy America. Still, I'd skip the party rather than sign such a document. Make a date with your friends to play on the same night. Good luck!

[sunbuckus 3,569]

First of all...it's great to see you around again, Fours! Second, this is a completely new idea that I've never heard of. We would definitely pass if something like this was passed around our table but if you want to go and you're leery about the one-way information disclosure, turn the tables on them and hand them the exact same form for them to fill out. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? If they really feel it's necessary for such personal information to be given to them, then they should be able to put themselves in the other couples' shoes and be willing the fill out the same form for every other couple that they come in contact with in the LS.

 

I'm getting "frothy" as Mr. Sun says. I'm not sure whether to laugh at the preposterous-ness of the situation or shake my head at the audacity of people.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

Welcome back. Commercial enterprises that enable risky activities (bungee jumping comes to mind) will require various hold harmless forms. It's a commercial enterprise and therefore a contractual relationship is anticipated. Attendance at a private party is a matter of mutual consent. Perhaps it is closer to a covenant--we affirm that we have no known transmissible diseases, we will play safe, we will keep each others confidence. Once a private relationship becomes contractual, it no longer feels like a private relationship. We would gracefully decline this opportunity and wish them well. Then, to quote the inimitable Snagglepuss, we would "Exit, Stage left!". (for those of you too young to remember, go ahead and search Snagglepuss... )

[JoCoCpl 99]

Yeah - the main lifestyle matchup site we use just had a forum question similar to this, where the private party hosts were asking all attendees to provide first/last names, address, e-mail address, and phone numbers. I was surprised at how many people were in support of the idea of requiring this info, as well as the number of people who do so for their own house parties.

 

The reasoning given by many was so they would have contact information "just in case something went wrong." Another justification was that the hosts are giving their info to potential guests, so it was only fair for the guests to do the same. IMHO, hosts voluntarily give up some privacy, but guests shouldn't have to just to even the playing field. There was one who even ran background checks before guests would be able to attend.

 

Many respondents went on to say that those who balked at giving this info were paranoid and being unreasonable.

 

Bottom line: we feel that hosts can feel free to ask for whatever they wish. Those considering attending can feel free to take this into account and decide accordingly whether to attend. We would choose not to.

[tribbles 490]

A swinger hotel or rv park, gets my real ID.

 

A house party gets what I write down and it's gonna be hard to find us.

[Fours Company 169]

I was surprised at how many people were in support of the idea of requiring this info, as well as the number of people who do so for their own house parties.

 

The reasoning given by many was so they would have contact information "just in case something went wrong."

 

Many respondents went on to say that those who balked at giving this info were paranoid and being unreasonable.

 

The "just in case" reasoning was one of the excuses given to us as well, claiming if someone came down with an STD, the hosting couple could contact anyone else who attended and warn them. Now to that I say even if I thought that was a good thing, a phone number or email could accomplish that task as well as our friends, whom they communicate regularly with, keeping us in the loop. To me, there is simply no reason that has to be accomplished by knowing our full names and address. I mean, are they going to have to come tell us in person we might have been exposed to something?

 

I do find, as you pointed out, how unsettling it is that most attendants see nothing wrong with giving out unnecessary information as well as turning it around on anyone who objects and making them out to be unreasonable. I think this is just an extension to the direction vanilla society has been going for some time now when the majority are willing to give up personal info and rights for a little security and convenience as well as the "tell all" nature for entertainment and exposing every mundane and personal aspect on social media.

 

For my thinking, information is power and no one can guarantee 100% no matter what they claim that info will never be out of their control and bite some one in the ass in the future and it is the height of naivety for anyone to believe otherwise when signing such documents. That caution has at times made me out to be the paranoid, odd-bird in vanilla life and now, I guess in the LS as well with some couples.