First officially "committed" swing relationship - having problems

[Leigha 23]

Hello there! This might be long, but hopefully the details will help.

 

Hubby and I started swinging 2.5 years ago. We started out with a couple of semi-anonymous club play nights and then quickly moved in to meeting couples through lifestyle sites. We're both pretty picky, so we went on a lot of first meets that didn't turn into anything else, but we had some sporadic success with 3 or 4 couples over the first year.

 

For the second year, we pretty much dedicated ourselves to a couple we made friends with first and hung out with only in a vanilla fashion for the first year. We only got together for sex about once a month... and then that started to dwindle. They told us later that they were dating again, so we did the same.

 

A couple of mistakes later, about six weeks ago, we met a really nice couple. Let's call them Amy and Adam. We're all in our early 40s.

 

Amy and my hubby are extroverts. They text A LOT. When we get together, they're the talkers. Adam and I are the introverts. I hate small talk. I'm not a big texter. I need a bit of alcohol just to loosen up enough to have fun. He's not really my type physically, but he's not a bad looking guy. So on our first date, we end up back at our house having sex, which is fine. In line with how everything else had been going lately, I figured this would just be a one and done situation and then we'd move along. Evidently I'm the only one who felt that way.

 

Within days of the first meet, hubby suggests that we become exclusive. I agreed, thinking we were still in the "hey let's get to know each other" stage, but in the meantime, we're not going to try to meet other new people. 100% cool. Meeting new people is painful for me, and Amy and Adam are really nice people, so that worked.

 

Next thing I know, before we've even had sex a second time, all three of them are throwing around boyfriend/girlfriend terms for each other and I start freaking out. Adam's spilling to me about how he doesn't have many good friends and he hopes that I might grow to be a best friend for him. I don't want that. I've never said I wanted that.

 

I know people have different reasons for swinging. I married young-ish, got divorced, met my now hubby, and that brought my grand total of sexual partners up to 2. Swinging provides me the opportunity to experience other men, which I really enjoy. I'm not looking for close, intimate relationships. I just want the sex, and I'm happy with just that. I get my intimate relationship needs fulfilled by my hubby. My hubby on the other hand needs more of a connection with the other lady to make the sex part of things work for him. I completely understand and respect the differences we have. (Believe me, we've talked this to death.) So when he and Amy hit it off and she expressed how much she really likes him, I was happy. But I don't want the same thing they have between me and Adam.

 

Adam is really big on fairness. Total tit-for-tat kind of guy. He gets jealous if Amy gets "more" than he does. He complains that he thinks I don't like him. I've talked with him a lot about what I expect, what I want, and what I don't want. It doesn't make a difference. I like the guy but I don't LIKE the guy. I don't know if I ever will. Maybe that'll grow and maybe it won't. I didn't shoot off on the rocket that the rest of them did from the beginning, so now I'm on the ground sucking dust.

 

I feel like I'm in a lose-lose situation. I don't want to "take one for the team", and hubby and I have always said that we'd never put each other in the position of having to do so. I enjoy sex with Adam but don't want a whole "relationship" to go along with it like everyone else wants. But this is the first time that hubby has had a really good connection with a lady who really, really likes him. I know it makes him feel good, and I want him to feel good. So maybe I kind of am taking one for the team. I have hope that something more might grow out of this for me, but who knows if that will happen or not.

 

We have four-way chats going along with the one-on-one chats, we've Skyped to talk through things. Whenever there's any kind of issue though, Amy completely folds up. She wouldn't sit at the dinner table and eat with the rest of us last weekend because she was upset at Adam about something. She actively avoids eye contact when we're talking through normal issues. When I made a joke that inadvertently hurt her feelings, she put her head down on the table and sobbed. I asked what was wrong. She ignored me. Whenever there's something we have to address, she expresses her fear that we're going to dump them. It makes it really hard to talk through things. I don't know how to deal with that and it scares me to think of the nuclear breakdown she'll have if/when we (I) do break things off.

 

To summarize:

- Everyone else is now trying to slow down to my speed so that I'm not uncomfortable. Boyfriend/girlfriend names are no longer being used.

- I feel like poop for making everyone slow down. I never wanted to be the person who set the rules for everyone else. I'm usually the one doing what it takes to make others comfortable (in general), so it's awkward to be in the position where others are catering to me.

- Hubby and Amy are way more attached to each other than Adam and I, and that really bothers Adam but doesn't bother me at all.

- Amy sucks at conflict resolution.

 

I ended up rambling all over the place with this. I just wonder if anyone else has been through situations like any part of this and can offer any advice. I don't know whether I should keep trying--they really are nice people!--or give up now and steal from hubby the best match he's ever had.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Hi, Leigha. First of all, I'm sorry to hear how hard this situation is for everyone. It's easy for us on the forum to read the words, offer some advice, and be done with it but you, your husband, and the other couple have to actually live through this, feel the emotions, and deal with whatever choices everyone goes with...and no matter what they are, it's going to be hurtful for someone.

 

First of all, a four-way attraction and chemistry is terribly difficult and hard to find. It's hard enough to find that type of attraction and chemistry for two people, let alone four. So, it's not really surprising that there's only a strong chemistry between two but not all of you.

 

Second, it sounds like Amy and Adam haven't been swinging very long or else they would have known that a tit-for-tat attitude in swinging is much more detrimental to their relationship than not. Asking for a tit-for-tat can lead to resentment, disappointment, and drama...and that's where this seems to be heading.

 

Third, an exclusive swinging or poly relationship where even all four involved have incredible attraction and chemistry with each other requires strong communication skills. Just like a successful swinging couple needs to be able to communicate with each other about boundaries, limits, desires, fears, etc. adding more people into the mix makes this even more important 10-fold and this means all involved need to be able to have those skills.

 

So, in my humble opinion, here are the following issues that makes this 4-way relationship not do-able at this time with this couple:

 

-You and your husband need to sit and talk about what each of you really wants from swinging. It sounds like your husband might be looking more for exclusiveness or even poly-type of relationship with others. Whereas you want to keep things skin deep. Neither are wrong but if your husband needs more of a connection with his partners and you don't, this might mean you two need to figure out a suitable way to make swinging work for both of you because you both are coming from different ends of the spectrum.

 

-Adam's tit-for-tat attitude and Amy's inability to deal with conflict and lack of communication skills spells trouble. Since you aren't into Adam as much as your husband is into Amy, I can only sense that this situation will worsen if you two continue with this couple unless Adam's attitude changes and Amy is able to improve on her communication skills.

 

-Someone (or more likely someones) will get hurt from this point on.

 

If you cut off all ties with this couple, everyone is going to be hurting for a bit. Your husband and Amy will miss each other. You will feel bad. Adam will wonder why you didn't like him. However, this might be the best course of action for everyone. Hopefully, your husband and yourself will be able to reconnect and reconcile with what each of you would like from swinging and find a compromise. Perhaps Adam will find out that the tit-for-tat attitude isn't compatible with swinging. And maybe Amy will learn that she needs to deal with conflict resolution better.

 

If you all drag the relationship forward, it's clear that there might be some resentment building from everyone. They feel resentment that you are making them slow down. You feel resentment that they want you to feel something that you don't. Adam probably already feels inadequate because he wonders why you don't like him like Amy likes your husband. Meanwhile, your husband and Amy might get so wrapped up with their new relationship feelings that they become oblivious to what tension is building between you and Adam and what each of you feel toward them. Eventually, you or Adam will call it quits between everyone and everyone still gets hurt in some way or another.

 

 

Looking back to our own experience...I'd say that Mr. Sun and I were the "Adam and Amy" of your story. We never called it exclusive but we definitely did try to have a more boyfriend/girlfriend quality to it with a certain couple a few years ago. There was more of a connection between myself and the other husband, while the other wife and Mr. Sun didn't seem to have as much. The other wife eventually stopped wanting to go out with Mr. Sun. And Mr. Sun, since we were still newish to swinging, still wanted things to be "even" (tit-for-tat) and probably stung from the rejection so he wanted me to stop seeing the other husband.

 

Being the "Amy" part of this story, it was difficult. I won't lie about that. It hurt and it took awhile to get used to not seeing the other husband but in the end, I realized that I was also not being more aware of Mr. Sun's needs and feelings. He was feeling left out and I was being blinded by being in a new relationship. So, now I try to be a lot more aware of how something might affect him. The downside of this is that now I'm too sensitive and I am always second-guessing whether I'm doing something that bothers him, or upsets him, or prohibiting his happiness.

 

 

Anyway, I guess that's my way of saying, "Yes, we've been there but it was on the other side of the coin." All I can do is share what happened for us but ultimately, the choice depends on you, your husband, and the other couple. All it takes is for one of you to say, "No, I don't want this anymore," and call it quits. Then, it's up to how everyone else reacts to it. Will they all accept that? Will they fight it? Will some accept and others will sneak around it? I can't predict what will happen but if I were in your shoes, I would sit down and talk with your husband and re-evaluate the situation. Let him know how you feel and see if you two can come to an agreement in how to deal with it. The first priority should be your relationship with each other. All others should help support and enhance it...and it doesn't sound like the other couple is doing that.

 

 

PS I'm sorry I wrote a book, by the way!

[cplnuswing 4,713]

The advice above is right on I think, so I'll just add my hopes that you will be very, very careful here and start immediately with trying to resolve the issues between all four of you. Waiting and hoping it will go away will only increase the already strong potential for relationship disaster. The situation you are in is a very tricky one to navigate even when all four have the maturity, experience, and interpersonal skills to do so, and that doesn't sound like the case here, so that's going to make it much more difficult to bring it to a successful outcome with as little hurt involved as possible.

 

You say you never wanted to be the one setting the rules. I totally understand that you feel your personality isn't suited for that, but in swinging, all have to play their part and helping set the rules is just as much your responsibility as anyone else's. I'm not trying to throw blame over on you at all, just pointing out that everyone has to be an equally engaged participant, or it simply won't work, or not for long anyway.

 

Good luck with this, and please, start to work on resolving it now before the job gets any more difficult.

[Leigha 23]

Thank you for the feedback. Hubby and I have had many talks about this already, and I've shed plenty of tears, too. He has it in his head that I don't like that another woman likes him so much, and I hate the promise of guilt that will come if I end this whole thing. I've offered the suggestion of the two of them doing their own one-on-one thing, but he doesn't want that. More discussions to be had I guess!

 

You're right that Adam and Amy are new to swinging. I've had a convo with Adam about how unrealistic the tit-for-tat attitude is. He's backtracked on it a bit now, but I don't know if he's sincerely changed his mind or if this is the precursor to a big blow up from him.

 

Thanks again for the thoughts and alternate perspective!

[cplnuswing 4,713]

You're welcome! There are some really perceptive people here that are always willing to help, so I'm sure you will be hearing some other perspectives too so please keep checking back.

 

You're right that Adam and Amy are new to swinging. I've had a convo with Adam about how unrealistic the tit-for-tat attitude is. He's backtracked on it a bit now, but I don't know if he's sincerely changed his mind or if this is the precursor to a big blow up from him.

 

I think that explains a lot. Swinging can make your head swim at first, and that's just the no-strings casual sex variety. Throw in the close friendship aspect on top of it, and you are really talking some powerful emotions. That kind of swinging is awesome when it works, but I think everyone has to be really grounded and mature in both their own relationship and swinging in general for it to work well and for very long. The same things that make it extra powerfully good can also make it extra powerfully bad if things go south.

[Leigha 23]

Oh, I'll definitely be checking back. I'll keep you all posted as things develop, too.

 

I reread Sun's response and just want to say again how helpful it is. Thank you! I'm happy I'm not the only book writer, too.

 

I have to say, if there's one thing that swinging has taught me, it's how to communicate better and sooner with my hubby about things--especially uncomfortable things. It's been great for our relationship overall and helped us become closer than we've ever been. The coming conversations will be more difficult since his feelings are very wrapped up in Amy, but better to discuss it more now than later when it'll just be worse.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

You are more than welcome, Leigha! I look forward to hearing your updates on the situation. I hope your husband will be able to stop and listen to what you say and have the ability to put his new relationship feelings aside to help put things in perspective. Since I have been in that place before, I know it will be hard to do but I hope the future conversations are productive and enlightening for all. Good luck!

[angelkin 1,326]

Leigha, I'm sorry you're in this precarious situation. I've not been in any swing relationships that came close to exclusive or poly in any way, so I don't have much new advice to offer. I think you've received some very sound advice already and hope to read more from you as things progress in this resolution.

 

Hang in there - and we're good 'listeners', feel free to write posts as long as you like.

[Leigha 23]

An update: Hubby and I have been talking A LOT about this whole situation, which is great. I haven't pulled the plug yet (I know, I know). I think he might be about to though. He was saying last night that the glamour and newness of the relationship is already wearing off for him, and now he's not nearly as enamored with Amy as he was at first. (I think one of my main concerns this whole time has been with keeping him from feeling like I was nixing the whole thing out of jealousy over him having a lady who likes him so much, so I've been stepping very carefully to make sure I'm not "denying" him that.)

 

Ultimately, it's all boiling down to this foursome creating a lot of shitstorms between the individual couples and the four of us as a group, and it's exhausting. The latest was earlier this week when both Adam and I happened to be out of town for work at the same time (not the same place), leaving hubby and Amy in town. I left hubby with the approval that if it worked out for him to see her and he wanted to, it was fine with me whatever he wanted to do. The latest from Adam before the work trips was that Amy and hubby could see each other whenever they want. But then he told her as he left, "No visits." She had to work and has two kids to look after, so she said that of course there wouldn't be time for that anyway. Long story short, she ended up grabbing some food and dropping it off at our house for hubby after work. She was here for 15 minutes, and they did nothing but chat. When she left, she had two angry face texts from Adam. He wouldn't respond to her texts asking what that was about and wouldn't answer her calls all night either. She figured out that he must have been tracking her phone location without her knowing and saw that she was at our house. He wouldn't talk to her until he was back in town, then she took a day off work so that they could reconnect. This just screams bad news to me. There are obviously issues (trust? the fairness thing? something...) that they need to work out, and I don't want me and hubby to be in the middle of it.

 

The drama some of us are able to create and feed never ceases to amaze me. I recognize my part in this by not cutting it off, too. That's not lost on me.

 

On the flip side, the shitstorms prompt really good conversations between me and hubby, which make us both feel closer to each other. If nothing else, at least we're getting more practice with those skills. Bright side, right? Ugh. It's only a matter of time now.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Kudos on making lemonade out of lemons with the good conversations between you and hubby. On the other issue, get far away, that is a drama bomb just waiting to go off. I agree, that would be exhausting, and this is supposed to be fun, not exhausting, right? Whenever you aren't having fun, that's always a good time to step back and start asking "why is that and how do we change it?"

[AngelandTiger 367]

"he must have been tracking her phone location without her knowing and saw that she was at our house."

 

O.M.G. The red flag this sentence raises would blot out the sun. I can't advise strongly enough to get far, FAR away from this couple before things REALLY explode....

 

Just my 2 cents, but.....wow.

[MrDiscover 802]

I agree with AngelandTiger, this sounds very alarming. It seems this went much too fast for them, this has completely overrun them. They just started swinging seven weeks ago, and already want to be exclusive, whine an sob when things don't go perfect, they keep on texting, using 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend' names, preparing diner when the other spouse is away (?!) etc. They just claim you two.

 

If you don't want to stop this, at least agree on a break from this. Just let it rest for a while. And don't hesitate because the other woman may go into a tantrum, that sounds like being blackmailed. You can't prevent that anyway, it will happen too is you two do nothing.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Leigha 23]

Thanks everyone, again. You're all great.

 

It's over now. Seeds were planted in a text conversation between hubby and Amy last night, and then the four of us had a Skype call today so I could say my piece, and we ended it "in person".

 

It sucked.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I know that had to suck. It's easy to sit here on the other side of a keyboard and say you needed to go put yourself through that, but it had to happen, it really did. This situation was headed nowhere good.

 

By nature I'm someone who will take chances, but who always looks before he leaps, so people that rush full speed into uncharted territory make me nervous, especially when that somewhere new has as many potential land mines as swinging does. Try not to let what happened turn you off from swinging, or new swingers. You enjoyed it before, you'll enjoy it again. Some people just have a harder time not allowing their impulses and emotions to override their thinking side. That can be fun...while it lasts, but when all is tallied up, the bad usually outweighs the good with that approach in my opinion.

[angelkin 1,326]

Thanks everyone, again. You're all great.

 

It's over now. Seeds were planted in a text conversation between hubby and Amy last night, and then the four of us had a Skype call today so I could say my piece, and we ended it "in person".

 

It sucked.

 

Sorry to hear that it sucked, but happy to know that you've managed to extricate yourselves from the situation. Lesson learned - like cplnuswing said - don't let this experience sour your fun.