Possible problems with a great couple

[TricianMike 788]

Haven't been on here in a while. A little background...we met a couple who are the parents of children in our children's classes. We met them some time ago and we would go out with them for dinner and drinks and have a good time with them. Nothing overtly sexual though my husband and I would joke privately. We swore they were vanilla and didn't want to ruin a good new friendship. One day at lunch at the mall, shopping with just her she asks if we ever....I almost choked. I sort of denied but let her talk. They never did but she felt by things we said that we did. I have to be careful in the future. She even asked if I had been with a woman. I admitted that years ago I had. I just let her talk and didn't admit much of anything but told her if she had thoughts like that, she should be careful. Of course I told Mike about this and he thought it better not to get involved with friends. BTW they are good looking and we really enjoy being with them.

 

Well of course you know we finally did it with them. It has been 4 times now. I am not going to complain about anything because it has been fun each time. But now she had another talk with me about her husband. She asked me if he satisfies me. I told her we have fun and what a great guy he is and I asked if she feels that way about Mike or if he is not doing it for her. She said just the opposite, Mike goes on and on. Of course I knew that. I knew where she was going but I said her husband is fine and all men are different but she said, and I knew, that her husband is kind of fast. I think since she has met us it is bothering her more maybe it always bothered her. I don't know what to tell her. Her husband is a great guy.

[cplnluv1 874]

Hello again. I think we have all read threads about that problem. I even posted about how long average is. I think it was about 7 minutes if I remember. Did this friend really have a problem or is she comparing to what your husband does? I have learned never to compare and you should have that conversation. Ask her if it has affected her marriage before doing this. She must have had other men before her marriage so she has something to compare to.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

There's always the 'why do you ask?' approach. Just ask her why she wants to know. Sounds like your husband 'does it' for her 'better' (aka differently) than her husband. This sounds like very dangerous ground and I would tread lightly but you need to talk with her more about this.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I agree that "better" and "different" are two totally different things. I also tend to think that how long he lasts has been an issue in her mind for a while, maybe just a small issue, but one that is there.

 

Based on your relationship with them and the topic in general, this is indeed dangerous ground. If I was to talk about it at all, it would be to gently remind her that many, many things make up a good relationship, and it's best to be thankful for what you have as a whole, and not get fixated on one of the pieces being not quite perfect. I think swingers know and accept that better than most do, i.e. we can accept that we don't own the other sexually, and that our relationship isn't based on sex, that is just one of many, many things. That doesn't mean you can't work on a small part that you wish was a little better, because all relationships always have something that could be improved, rather just don't get fixated on it and give it more weight than it is really due.

[sunbuckus 3,569]

Hi, TricianMike. There are a few things that came to mind when I read about your situation. First of all, it sounds like they are new to swinging and you two are possibly the only couple they have played with--combine that with the vanilla friendship that you two share and there could be a hint of emotional attachment growing as well. The latter part is a possibility and not a certainty.

 

Let's address the newness of swinging for the other couple. The other wife has only experienced your husband. For her to truly understand the difference between "better" and "different", I think she needs to experience other men. She will see that lasting longer in bed isn't always a good thing. She will also see that there are men that can finish even faster than her husband. Different lengths, different girths, different stamina, different motion in the ocean...she'll find that she enjoys certain men more than others and for different reasons. I would suggest that you let them know that there are swinger clubs, meet and greets, and online profiles for them to spread their wings.

 

As for the possibility of emotional attachment that may or may not be growing between herself and your husband...if it is there, it could also be a reason why she enjoys sex with him. Depending on how you all feel about emotional attachment with swinging friends will determine where you all go from here. The most important thing is that everyone communicates and will be honest about their feelings and thoughts about the matter.

 

One last thing, I don't know you personally nor do I know this other woman but it sounds like there is a lot of conjecture going around about what she is thinking and feeling. Unless she directly and openly used the words, "I feel..." and, "I think..." there is a possibility that you could be misreading what her statements to you really mean.

 

You could always steer her to this website so she can gain information and advice for herself. It sounds like you two inducted them into the world of swinging. You never know how much communication occurred between the other couple to see if they truly thought about how swinging can affect their relationship. Perhaps reading about different situations, issues, and scenarios here will spark conversation between them and they can strengthen their relationship bond (and communication) which will in turn, create better sex between them as well.

[TricianMike 788]

So I am reading these answers this morning with my first cup of coffee. I haven't thought about the danger of an emotional attachment forming. We have been good friends for some time and for me it has made this even more playful than other couples we have been with. It is their first and from what I can see their only time they have done this. It has been very playful with laughing and joking, lights on playing with enthusiasm from both of them to continue to explore. From the first I wanted to make sure this is what they wanted. Not only were we the only couple, she said she never even saw another couple have sex live or been naked in front of more than one man. Part of the fun for us was she had never been in bed or really touched another woman sexually. Everything we have done has been in the same room. She is more vocal than me but I didn't sense any jealousy or any attachment to Mike. Yes there is kissing between them and I have kissed her husband. From what I can see or sense her biggest challenge was touching me and though she was somewhat at first reluctant to really have oral with me she was not at all reluctant with Michael.

She asked me if I enjoyed being with her husband. I really do. Maybe it is because I don't scream or get that verbal or because he does finish sooner than Mike and her. I can tell you his oral skills are fine and by the time we have full sex I have already had plenty of excitement. I have been with other men who are less fun and faster and men who I wished were faster. I have enjoyed watching her and Mike and even joining them as they were at the finish point. She has made some Wow comments and I have always said that it's great for all of us.

We have gone out together for vanilla times since we have become intimate and to me it is still fun. It is not like she is asking to fuck Mike all the time. I just hope it hasn't affected their relationship and their times together. I would never say her husband is quick or make either one of them uncomfortable. I sort of know who I am with and though I have a sense of pride that Mike is the best, I don't want anyone to think it's a contest, especially with friends I enjoy.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

She asked me if I enjoyed being with her husband. I really do. Maybe it is because I don't scream or get that verbal or because he does finish sooner than Mike and her. I can tell you his oral skills are fine and by the time we have full sex I have already had plenty of excitement. I have been with other men who are less fun and faster and men who I wished were faster. I have enjoyed watching her and Mike and even joining them as they were at the finish point. She has made some Wow comments and I have always said that it's great for all of us.

 

Make sure SHE knows this.

[TricianMike 788]

Make sure SHE knows this.

I sort of did tell her. I didn't make a big deal of how long her husband lasted, I more of made fun of how long it takes Mike. I tried not to make a big deal of it. Maybe I should have let her talk more and let her ask questions. I am sure it wasn't easy for her to bring it up and maybe if they were strangers I would have not been as uncomfortable with the conversation she was trying to have. Thinking about it, what could I tell her? We all know every man and every woman is different. Maybe it is a problem for them and she was reaching out to me. Maybe it is why she started the original conversation about doing this. I hope she isn't using us as a substitute for something missing

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

That's what it sounds like to me. That she wants someone to talk about this...not that it's right or wrong or better or worse, just that it is different and therefore it's all good. Start there and see where she wants to go...and let us know how it went.

[TricianMike 788]

I wonder if I took away the possibility for her to open up about this. Maybe this is a deep seeded problem they have and I dismissed it with trying to make light of it. How do I get her to open up again and if his "quickness" is a problem for her, I have no idea what to tell her. These people are good friends not just a couple we meet for sex. He really doesn't go that long but as I said before he is fun in and out of bed. I also know they aren't prudes and experiment with toys and he is pretty good at foreplay.

Now I feel bad about not letting her talk. I am also not afraid that she is becoming attached to Mike.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Maybe just some girl talk about sex in general? What you've tried and like or disliked, what you haven't tried yet but want to, favorite toys, etc. That will naturally probably work its way toward what you like and what you don't like, and will give her an opening to go there if she wants to.

[TricianMike 788]

Just an update. We were with them sexually again the other night. Before that I did speak with her (on the phone) and we were having some sexual talk, more than we ever did before and I guess I kept pushing her to open up about fantasies and what they do privately, things we never really went deep about before. I think she was embarrassed to ask things any I of course wasn't. Talk came to toys. She was hesitant to say they use them. I told her we have always used them and what did she think those stores and websites were there for, just a few couples? I told her more couples than she would believe use toys. I think we need to have more conversations but other when we are together I don't thing she has a thing for Mike. BTW we had fun together again.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like she is still hesitant but slowing becoming comfortable with her sexuality. Sounds like she needs someone like you who she can open up to and learn that she really is just a normal sexual woman (well, what does normal really mean anyways...). Keep us in the loop with any additional updates.

[cplnluv1 874]

Was interested what your husband has said about all of this. I would think just like you talking to your friend, he probably had guy talk too. Did you share your conversation with him about what your gf said to you? Swinging with friends is unique that you still keep a normal relationship with them. Also do you have other mutual vanilla friends and how do you hide what I am sure is a new closeness?

[TricianMike 788]

Mike and I always talk about everything. We both were hesitant to do this with them because of what might happen. We even talk about how we feel about almost everything in general. Maybe I am more open about the men we have been with because Mike always asks me how it was. Remember we are ALWAYS in the same room and many times in the same bed inches away from each other. To be honest we have fun talking about our partners. The shape or size of a guy, how excited someone gets. noises lol, and screamers. Mike has made mention that the guy asked how he stays so long, but Mike told him he always has. Never mentioned that I may have said something about that to him. He did say that there are always questions about what I do. I know he wants my butt Mike always says he talks about wow Tricia ass is this and that. He has asked Mike about butt toys and other things we do. It seems they had plenty of toys and assistance in bed which is fine.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

An interesting thread. One of the joys of the LS is variety. People are different anatomically, physiologically, technique-wise and more. Toys are fun, of course, and many women find them essential regardless of the stamina of their partner.

 

There are three issues that are worth exposing and exploring with the other couple.

 

First, the husband should know that there are medical strategies to address timing of ejaculation. If he feels that he can't last as long as he wants, several of the SSRI medications (paxilitene is most commonly used) will reliably delay orgasm. Often used in combination with one of the PDE5 drugs (Viagra, Cialis, Levitra). So if that's an issue with him, his wife and/or any other partner, it's addressable.

 

Second, it sounds as if their communication pipeline might not be as wide open as it could be. Marriages are funny things. Partners sometimes tiptoe around sensitive areas out of fear that their partner will think badly of something. Men especially do not "do" weakness or vulnerability easily. Their mates know this and therefore the shields go up. It's worth reflecting how -- through casual conversation -- you might be able speak about how you and Mike got rid of the barriers and were able to get to that wide open communication.

 

Third, having fun in the LS is founded on many things. The most important is the absolute confidence in the emotional fidelity within the marriage. Put differently, vanilla folks use monogamy to strengthen (and sometimes patch) emotional fidelity. This is why cheating is thought to be so prevalent--not because of a need for sexual variety but rather because emotional needs are not being met. Long-term, secure LS couples have such strong emotional fidelity and often sense it in others without realizing it/recognizing it. (Indeed, this is why we like being around LS couples in any circumstance, vanilla or intimate. ) What you are sensing is, in a word, insecurity. Who is insecure about what, not clear and best left to others to sort out. On the other hand, there might be some value--again, just casual conversation--in talking about all of the little things you and Mike do for each other both to remind and reinforce that 'fierce and unbreakable emotional bond.'

[TricianMike 788]

Mike and I had really talked about all this last night and he brought up a very good point. Do we want to mess up a great friendship? We had this talk before ever "getting involved" with friends. Before ever taking the first step, which they actually initiated, we knew the dynamic of our friendship was going to change forever. We knew that we are over any jealousies that might occur. We have both watched each other with other partners and we know we are fine with what we do. We did discuss what would happen if our friends couldn't get the same enjoyment we do. With other couples we have met, we felt if it didn't work we would just move on. These are our friends. A problem would be more lasting and might ruin a great friendship.

 

Mike asked me if it bothers me that he is quicker. Honest answer is No. We have been with other couples where the guy was faster. I said I was more concerned because she brought it up but maybe I am reading too much into that. He asked me if I am having fun with them. Again yes. Do I think she is having fun. Yes. We both know she is having fun and excitement. She has opened up to something she never did, being with a woman and she I admit has been very good at learning lol. And as I said before I enjoy being with him. Our foreplay, oral sex can go on for quite a bit. And he has made me cum almost every time. Mike said he has enjoyed and still enjoys her. Being with friends is fun and we are finding very playful.

 

Mike and I have decided to not worry about how long but to enjoy what we have with friends. We are not going to get involved with recommending drugs. I looked up the drug that was mentioned, different spelling, and see it is for anxiety. Maybe I will just try to make him more relaxed. He certainly doesn't have an erection problem. They have both mentioned toys. We are going to buy brand new toys to mix things up the next time we are with them. It is said we swing because we enjoy something new and different. A new person, a new position, a different tempo. I know this has always been me. Yes the first time with a new couple is extremely exciting for both of us. The first time with them was so much different but so much the same as any new couple. The first time excitement and mystery. We want to keep this fresh and take the anxiety he may have away. Cheers to great friends!

[JandKinBoise 859]

One thing we have noticed is that when the quick comer starts to really screw, it's a race to the finish line for them. You might try throwing a wrench into his tranny when he is at full steam. Ask for a new position, ask for more oral, ask him to do something that will distract him for a few seconds. That will sometimes push the reset button and he can go another 5 minutes.

 

Probably the reason Mike is able to last so long is his mind is going thru a long list of things he is enjoying. He isn't just focused on the head of his dick. We have found that that isn't something most do. Most likely, your new friend will get better as time goes on and the newness isn't so prevalent. And if nothing works to help him last longer, focus on the good parts. Like you said, this isn't really a problem. They just need to understand we are all different in our approaches and he is a good attentive lover and you enjoy being with him. Really..7 minutes and that's a problem? We've had guys come on J's pussy before getting in it. That's fast.

[TricianMike 788]

Not to go over the whole thing again, he is a great guy. The post started because I thought maybe his wife was having a problem with how long he went and was comparing it to Mike. I enjoy him and I enjoy the oral we do to each other. I know how to change things up. It is not the newness or excitement he has with me. From my conversation with her he just doesn't last that long. And no it's not seven minutes. Maybe two or so of sex but he is longer with oral play. If he is in me, I am not going to stop him. He could stop if he wants to slow up but I enjoy his enjoyment.

[cruisingcouple 31]

We've run into issues like this as well. Seems it comes down to a "competition". That is one reason we withdrew for a long time. That isn't what this lifestyle is about. Some of the beginners have to learn that lesson. One of the reasons the wife and I always want to be friends first and disclose all our "strings", etc... The wife and I are crazy in love with each other, but we both enjoy sharing those emotions with others - IF and only IF it feels right.

[TricianMike 788]

Found out it is harder to have a discussion with a friend than to have sex with her and her husband. Yesterday I had a pretty long and honest conversation with my very good friend. We have now had sex with them enough times that I felt we can be candid and open up. I asked her if she is having fun with us. I pretty well knew she was and I was too. We got into our sexual history. I really never have that conversation with anyone. I think it is easier to blog that than to tell someone what my past or private time with Mike is. I was sort of afraid to tell her some of the things we had done. I didn't want her to think we were too dangerous to be with. It seems like her past was pretty tame and not extremely experienced before she got married. Her first was when she was drunk in high school and she had three boyfriend is college. One real relationship before meeting her husband. I asked her about her sex life and she said they have sex all the time and have tried or done plenty of things they have heard or saw in porn movies. I think she wasn't comfortable being that open but I assured her we have done everything as well. Probably much more than what she did. Then I asked her about the question she asked me about her husband pleasing me. I asked her if he pleases her. She said of course he does. Then she asked why I was asking. I really didn't know how to really get to the point. But, I did. I said she asked about it when she said that Mike lasts so long, I figured maybe her husband wasn't lasting long enough for her. I think I hit a chord with her but she went on to tell me she cums all the time. Then she started asking me questions about what we did alone. She said they have plenty of oral sex and that she cums from that and that they use all different toys that really makes her cum. She asked if we ever use toys while screwing, that she likes that. Again the conversation from her was hesitant. I pushed the anal topic because I knew her husband told Mike he wanted to "do Tricia's butt". She said yes they she does do it but she usually has a toy in her too when he does it. I assured her that we do that too. Then I asked her does he last long enough to have her cum. She said yes but usually more so if they do it more than once and that if she is on top he she will. I almost choked when she asked if I ever had a guy in front and back. See I think her mind is fantasizing

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

What I'm reading here is that you are worried she is looking at her own sexual relationship in a more negative way after experiencing something "better". Although, at the same time I didn't really read "he goes on and on" as Better.

 

That said, I can see (and I've seen it happen) where having something new and different can make you look at what you have differently. It can make you ask yourself if you are really happy with what you have. Does your partner really do it for you? Are you really happy, or would something else make you happier? All this thoughts are normal, but I think what's really important when you see someone going through this is to remind them of how there is so much more to their relationship than just what a person does in bed. You can also train someone to do things differently in bed. If the guy doesn't last long enough then you have to focus him to do other things before sex to ensure that both parties are pleased. If he goes on forever it's a different story and that may mean less foreplay, or more foreplay focused on him so that he doesn't last as long. It may also mean that there are times when he doesn't get off because he lasts too long and some women just can't handle that kind of friction for that long.

[TricianMike 788]

Julie, I think I was afraid she found something in Mike that she didn't have at home. Maybe I was reading something into her remark that didn't exist. Her husband doesn't last that long and she asked me if I was pleased by him after our first meeting. I was thinking she felt cheated because Mike lasted longer. I think I made more of it than I should have. He certainly does everything right. I have said I enjoy him as a fun guy and as a sexual partner. And now after our talk yesterday I see she doesn't have any problems with him. She is pleased by him. Mike isn't better just different just like her husband is different for me. They are great friends of ours and maybe I had second thoughts playing with friends. I had hoped that it wasn't mine is better than yours. It hasn't become that. It's funny that I am writing these things but usually I lose interest in a couple we meet after the original excitement of the newness wears off. With them it's more of a fun thing. And I never that open with any of the couples we have met but the open she has been has made me more open with her. I am now sharing my inner feelings with her.

[cplnluv1 874]

It is good to see that the possible problem is not really a problem. You may have been more concerned because they are friends of yours and you knew you were more involved than a couple you meet just for sex. From your post I was reading that maybe you were afraid she was getting more from your husband than her own. If they were a random couple you might have been disappointed but not concerned. If you have met enough couples, you know some men will last longer than others and some men won't always be able to last or even perform. Our first couple we ever met was a bummer. Fortunately for us, we were really looking for a woman for our first, which we couldn't find. I know my wife was disappointed only because her first new partner was handsome and big. She was truly nervous before but things work out.

I see that you have a great relationship with this couple, more than just the sexual part. You have found other ways to enjoy as well. For my wife, we have found, even when we are alone, that oral does the trick. From your post I see there is a bisexual side to your play with toys. I would imagine that is a major part to your sexual gratification. One more thing, what is your husband saying about this? Is he enjoying playing with friends or is he being inhibited? I wonder how I would react or play differently.

[TricianMike 788]

Maybe just some girl talk about sex in general? What you've tried and like or disliked, what you haven't tried yet but want to, favorite toys, etc. That will naturally probably work its way toward what you like and what you don't like, and will give her an opening to go there if she wants to.

 

Spent Sunday with her. Guys went to a ball game and we had plenty of time to talk. There was no talk about how long or problems she is having. She was more interested in people Mike and I have met. She asked if we ever met just men or just women. I wasn't sure how deep I should get into our meetings but she pushed whether I have been with several men at once. She kept telling me that being with me was scarey but she had a curiosity and she was thrilled that it was me. Then she shocked me. She said she had met someone behind her husbands back. It never crossed my mind that she had done that. She said she is on Facebook and someone she knew from high school wrote her and she wrote back. She said it was innocent and just good old time stuff. They had been writing for two years about family and friends and things they did. She said nothing really sexual just fun teasing. He lived in another state now so she knew it was just fun. Well he came to town and they met for lunch. She never told her husband about her friend. This was before our friendship went as far as we did. She said she has felt guilty about what happened but she enjoyed having sex with him. She said they only met the one time but it got her interested in being with new people...us. So now I know she did this and I have to keep a secret. I hate that part of it,

[angelkin 1,326]

I've been watching this thread since the beginning. Lots of red flags IMHO. Secrets in swinging aren't good. Clearly, cheating isn't a good thing either. I wonder if this is reason to take a step back.

 

People make mistakes, but given all you've shared here, I am not sure this friendship is a good thing. She's looking for something more and as I read the scenario, swinging is a way to "fix" her relationship with her husband. That rarely ends well...do you want to be part of that?

[TricianMike 788]

I never thought she had cheated on her husband. It was a brand new revelation. I didn't know how to respond when she told me. You are right about the secrets part never going well. We never keep secrets from each other. We love the sharing part of what we do. What we had kept secret was our lives to our friends. Maybe our biggest mistake was allowing them to know too much about us but on the other hand we both enjoy being with them both socially and somewhat sexually. I don't think Mike nor I have a sexual attachment too them or anyone we ever meet. We try to separate that from our lives. Our mistake was not keeping our this part of our life separate from our friendship. But they are friends and we hate to lose them as friends. I think she needs me now too as a sounding board and an ear. Yes I sensed a problem, just misread it.

[TricianMike 788]

My friend told her husband and all is fine. After we talked and I told her that I am very truthful to Michael about my sex life before him, she said she felt guilty. Not sure what happened but she told me her husband knew she had met someone. She told me her husband saw her emails when it happened but never brought it up.

[cplnluv1 874]

Can I go back to the original post. This thread started with you saying he didn't last long. You say you have fun with them but has he taken any steps in getting longer lasting? Are you still meeting other couples? For us, we enjoy new people and to stay with this one couple exclusively would be a problem

[TricianMike 788]

The original "problem" was that I feared that she was going to find that Mike lasted longer and it would become a problem in our friends relationship. I was afraid she was going to find fault with her husbands ability to go longer. Is it a problem for me that he doesn't last? I stated before we enjoy their company. When we are playing with them I know not to rush anything. We have long pre sex, plenty of playful time and quality oral. He can control himself during oral and if he finishes with oral I am fine there too. We have finished together that way a few times. Once in me I can't say he goes long and when he finally got something he really wanted, my rear, he didn't last at all but it was all fun.

You asked if we have seen anyone else since starting this with them. No we haven't. Yes we too enjoy new people, whether couples or me with new men. We just don't have the time. But most likely with the weather getting nice, we may look.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

It started with a question about how long he lasted and ended up with another couple that none of us has ever talked with (except TricianMike) getting to a better place. Sounds like a win to me...

[cplnluv1 874]

It started with a question about how long he lasted and ended up with another couple that none of us has ever talked with (except TricianMike) getting to a better place. Sounds like a win to me...

 

I say we started with someone thinking there was a problem and ended up that there is no problem. We have a new couple exploring and friends enjoying a closer more intimate friendship.

[TricianMike 788]

I say we started with someone thinking there was a problem and ended up that there is no problem. We have a new couple exploring and friends enjoying a closer more intimate friendship.

You got that right. No real problem there