Girls playing the norm?

[Shore2Please 611]

We just joined this site and I am still exploring what it has to offer as far as advice. I have posted a few times and wrote about how we even got started. I know I have many questions in my head and probably will find answers without asking it here.

 

Little background, we met a couple last year on a vacation. The short of it is we never planned or ever discussed swinging before we did it with them. From swapping , the first night to my first experience with a woman the second, we have since met that couple once alone and once with two other couples (they have become more involved in this than us) We have now met one of those couples alone. In the year from our first experience we have had three experiences, almost doubling the number of men I had ever been with. Not quite. We have had sex separately and in the same room.

 

The question, when doing this, is it the norm for women to be with the other women. It seems that it is the thing to do. I have enjoyed what the women have done but I am not sure I am giving them back what they are looking for. I react to oral sex and I am finding I may react better with the women that their husbands but I am still timid doing it back. I have no problem giving oral to the guys and I think I am good at it, my husband says I am. Am I being shy or do other women feel that it I am not giving back?

The men all get excited watching but I am not the type to do something because someone else wants it. The other women seem to enjoy that part.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

Hi, Shore2Please. For us, it isn't the norm for girl/girl play all the time. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. It all depends on if the girls are into other girls and if they are attracted to one another--just like it is with male/female play. We've played with couples where both halves are straight and couples where the woman is bi. Just because a woman is listed as bi or bi-curious doesn't mean she wants to play with every woman she sees. That's like saying a straight woman wants to play with every man she sees.

 

So, if you aren't into the girl/girl stuff as much, you could say that you are bi-comfortable with the waist up (if you don't like to orally reciprocate) or just say you are straight.

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

The very first rule of swinging is that there really aren't any rules (other than the rules you and your partner agree to). It's okay not to want to play with other women...but at the same time, you didn't say that you didn't want to play, just that you are not sure I am giving them back what they are looking for. There's a solution for that...ask them. I'm sure that most would be more than happy to help you IF you are not giving them what they want. But if you don't want to play with other women, that's okay too. Just be up front and open about your wants and needs. Don't do something just because you feel that you should or that others are expecting/wanting you to. This is supposed to be a fun time for everyone involved, including you.

[Guest]

One of our surprises in swinging was the amount of girl on girl play. Hubby would love me to do it but I have tried taking a step in that direction but I'm just not into it. Certainly that limits us from some invitations and activity but is certainly not a major handicap. It's fair just to pick that area of activity that you both enjoy.

[kikonkrome 844]

The question, when doing this, is it the norm for women to be with the other women. It seems that it is the thing to do. I have enjoyed what the women have done but I am not sure I am giving them back what they are looking for. I react to oral sex and I am finding I may react better with the women that their husbands but I am still timid doing it back. I have no problem giving oral to the guys and I think I am good at it, my husband says I am. Am I being shy or do other women feel that it I am not giving back?

The men all get excited watching but I am not the type to do something because someone else wants it. The other women seem to enjoy that part.

 

 

There is such a thing as 'Good, Giving and Game: Dan Savage', you should strive to be good at pleasing your partner, you should give as much as you receive, and Game for what your partner wants. If you are choosing to engage with a girl, you should be GGG.

 

This is quoted from Kiko(my wife)

 

'In Kiko's experience it is a big part of the swinging experience for women. Women are really more comfortable flirting and having sex with each other and less comfortable with unknown men. Bi for play is different than bi in life. It's OK if you really prefer to play with men more than women, just don't lead on the girls more than you are willing to give.'

 

On a final note one of our funner swing friends regular complains about girls that don't give as much as they receive, that's why they play with us.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

Well, Shore2Please, you've heard a couple of different perspectives on female bi play. What you've heard rings true to me (Mr. CoupleInMD79), even though some of it may sound contradictory.

 

There does seem to be a fair amount of girl-girl play in the lifestyle. The Mrs. was not oriented that way at all before we started playing, but she has had a few experiments and seems to enjoy equitable F-F fooling around above the belt, and is OK with receiving below the belt. Some people would say that makes her a "pillow princess"! But she will not allow her swinger-site profiles to show her as bi-anything, because she doesn't want people to get their expectations up for F-F play.

 

I think if you make it clear that you are good with receiving oral, but uncomfortable with performing oral on the woman, then the woman can make her own decision about whether she wants to play that way. If she feels that it's an unfair scenario, she can pass on it with no harm and no foul.

 

I do encourage you to keep an open mind, however. I hope you will allow for the possibility that, one night, you may be in the mood to go down there and try it for yourself! My Mrs. has done that on very rare occasions, where she has felt really comfortable with the woman and the situation. She doesn't feel like she quite knows how to do it right, but I think she is kinda proud of herself for trying it!

[cplnluv1 872]

It is hard to say what the norm is. Normal is what you make normal to be. I found nothing wrong in girl play before I met my husband. I think it was girl play that got us thinking about getting into this lifestyle. I see you are new here. Search through posts and you will find one persons norm is the next persons weirdness. You have to ask yourself if you want to explore this part of the scene. There are couples that only share in the same room, others prefer separate rooms. We have only met couples that have had the women play or wanted to have the women play. I have been the first for several women. I never liked being the first for a woman who is being urged by her husband to this. You have to want to do it. I have asked the why question to the first timers. Because he wants me is a terrible answer. I say don't do it if that is the answer. I rather hear that you aren't sure. Ask yourself that question. If it is because your husband wants it, maybe that is a problem.

 

If it is because everyone else is doing it, that's a different problem. If you are curious about it, take your time. Maybe there is a one of the women you have been with that you can talk to. Look back in your life and remember your first time with a boyfriend. The first time you took him in your mouth. You probably got nauseous, I did. Maybe you kissed it the first time, then a little lick. If you are like me I went slow before I went all the way. You can do that with the women you are meeting too, but only if you want. If you don't want to do it, your norm is to not do it. Tell your husband and the other couple that you don't like or want to be with a woman. There are plenty of couples that are happy to just swap partners.

[Shore2Please 611]

Thank you all for some advice and things to think about> This whole thing came on so suddenly to me and to my husband. I can't even say I had a fantasy about being with anyone else and I know I never though of sexually being with a woman. I have thought of women who are attractive and like all of us have seen lesbian scenes in movies but never put myself into being part of that. Maybe it was my upbringing. I am an educated person and have a problem with other peoples moral issues. I have had conversations on what others feel are right and wrong. This includes gay marriage, which I see nothing wrong in. When I was younger, going all the way was a sin. But who said so? Touching myself was wrong. Who said so? Sorry if I get off track here. I am reading so much on this board and it is bringing me back to firsts. First time being touched. It was through clothing and only breasts I let him but was I doing something wrong? It was the first time I really thought about doing it but was scared. I didn't do it then or for weeks after that. I knew friend of mine had done it but I just couldn't. I recall the first time he touched me below the waist. Again all sorts of thoughts. My first of touching him and really the first time I actually saw a penis up close. So wrong but I "loved" him. LOL The first time I said yes to having sex but had me give my first real blow job and I threw up and we never got passed that, that day. Eventually we had sex and eventually broke up. I had moral issues about sex but I tried to say to myself that it was stupid and everyone was doing it. So why am saying this? Because a year ago I didn't have a moral issue sleeping with a man I just met who wasn't my husband. I didn't have a moral issue letting this man do what he was doing and I enjoyed the night. I enjoyed being desired and I enjoyed the physical part. And I didn't think I was cheating even though my husband wasn't in the room.

 

So the question is, why am I having problems with oral sex on a woman? Maybe it is the moral issue. Maybe it is because I feel I am putting on a show and I am not doing it for me. Just like the first bf, I am afraid to do it. I gagged again. But maybe at the right time I will enjoy it as much as I learned to enjoy it with guys.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

Ms. Shore2Please, I'm glad you posted that- never mind about being on-track or off-track! I have a feeling that you needed to express all of that, and you know you have a lot of friendly ears here.

 

Your ambivalence and evolving feelings on various sexual activities, the moral voice that pops into your head, those I think are not uncommon reactions. The interesting thing about your story is that you seem to have opened yourself up to new experiences, even if you had some (or a lot of!) hesitation initially.

 

I (I'm the Mr., BTW) think you should give yourself permission to have whatever feelings you are having about bi play. As your previous sexual experience shows, you have often opened yourself up to new things, after going through a process, an evolution of your feelings. The great thing about bi playing is that you never have to change your outlook about it- there should never be any pressure, external OR internal, to engage in bi play. You can be permanently strictly hetero, and enjoy an adventurous and fulfilling sex life. And that is completely OK! That said, if I were to put down money on you after hearing your story above, I'd bet that your feelings may evolve over time- at their own pace, with no rushing from outside or inside forces.

 

Have fun, and don't think too much!

[cplnluv1 872]

I just saw another post from you asking about separate rooms. Maybe meeting one of the women who has shown an interest in being with you could meet you and play privately, so you don't feel you are putting on a show. You should do this only if you are truly curious and don't do it just to prove a point. Maybe you can play with some toys first and be honest with her. If you don't want to do oral, don't. This part is not for everyone. Remember to keep it fun.

[Shore2Please 611]

I just saw another post from you asking about separate rooms. Maybe meting one of the women who has shown an interest in being with you could meet you and play privately, so you don't feel you are putting on a show. You should do this only if you are truly curious and don't do it just to prove a point. Maybe you can play with some toys first and be honest with her. If you don't want to do oral, don't. This part is not for everyone. Remember to keep it fun.

 

We have talked about this and I thank everyone for their thoughts. I think I might try to enjoy being with a woman. I feel like what you said I should try just a one on one with someone. So I called our vacation buddies and had a long talk with her. It is funny what you can say on a phone and we did talk for well over an hour. So here I am the quiet wife who never talked about sex acts with any friend now talking to someone I barely know, how I had great sex with her husband. Then she also told me about my husband and what they did. It was funny and weird at the same time. I didn't know how specific or graphic to get but she opened up and it got me to open up. The talk got to us, in front of our husbands that first time. I told her I never thought of doing any of this, especially with a woman. She admitted that she had and that they talked about it during the day. Her husband wanted to watch us. I had apologized for not giving her back what she was doing. She said she was fine and that she had fun and was excited that she could turn me on. She knew she made me have an orgasm. We then talked about switching in front of our husbands. I was honest and told her that I felt like I was putting on a show and that her husband was completely different when we were alone. I said it felt like he was trying to prove something.

 

Then I got to my point. Would she be interested in meeting, just us. No husbands. I told her over the year I had become more curious but was still unsure what I could do. I told her if she would like we can meet or I could come to her place and we can spend as much time or even an overnight, just us. Nobody watching, no showing off. I even offered to buy some new toys.Of course she laughed about that. So I think we are going to try doing that.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

That sounds like a good plan. You're really jumping in with both feet, being open to an overnight! Perhaps you have gotten very curious! I hope you feel comfortable and have fun.

[Shore2Please 611]

We don't know about the overnight yet. I did spend the night with her husband as my first experience. Of she spent the night with my husband. I figure if we do, there will be more talking than I had with him. I think a few hours would be good.

[cplnluv1 872]

Not sure if you met your friend. I want to go back and say I hope you are making the choice for you. No pressure. It is because you are genuinely curious. You never mention that your husband is pushing you but you did say liked watching. It is your choice to explore privately with no outside influence. Not every woman can do this. I do have some advice. If you go all they way, remember that if you like something, probably she will too. Remember what your husband does that you like. He most likely did the same things to her when they were together. It should be easy for you to do the same thing once you get past the part that scares you the most, doing oral to another woman. Just have fun.

[TricianMike 772]

With us girls playing is the norm because we chose to find couples where the girl wants to play. If you never had thoughts of bi play I would think it would be very hard to do, and with the men watching you seemed to be pressured into an act you weren't ready to do. I can only imagine what was going through your head that first time. Receiving oral from your new friend may have been easier than reciprocating. I don't know any women who doesn't enjoy getting. I commend you on having an open mind but as someone in this thread said, you should be doing this for you and not because you are being pressured. You are lucky that you have that first woman to talk to and maybe guide you. The one on one alone might be the way to go as long as if you are uncomfortable you can express that. Good luck and keep us updated

[Shore2Please 611]

I never thought about it before. I considered myself totally hetero. I have to say it was only because of the situation that I went through the motions the first time. I admit I never even saw a clitoris, my husband calls it a love button, that close before. When she turned her body around and there it was, I gave it a kiss. I think she more rubbed it on me than me giving oral. It was also the two men cheering us on and she did go down on me and I did cum from her so I felt like I couldn't stop. Since the first time I have become a little more comfortable but not totally.

[Shore2Please 611]

My friend called and asked if I wanted to do this today. We had planned to go to the shore but the weather sucks. To be truthful, I don't know. They are a few hours from us. My husband says I should and then I will know for the future. Maybe I should suggest doing a swap instead.

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

LET GO! Quit worrying about so much. Enjoy yourself but quit stressing about it (I know, all easier said than done). This is supposed to be fun, try to let it be just that. There's no pressure and never any expectations. If you can't get past all of that, then just tell them what you are feeling. Ask her for feedback on what you are doing and I'm sure that you will get it. Most important is to enjoy yourself.

[Shore2Please 611]

LET GO! Quit worrying about so much. Enjoy yourself but quit stressing about it (I know, all easier said than done). This is supposed to be fun, try to let it be just that. There's no pressure and never any expectations. If you can't get past all of that, then just tell them what you are feeling. Ask her for feedback on what you are doing and I'm sure that you will get it. Most important is to enjoy yourself.

 

Or as my kids sing Let It Go... I guess I am stressing about it. I should have stressed more the first time I went with him and I didn't, that much. It was so spur of the moment when it happened. Maybe it was natural for me to be with a man. Someone we knew a few days and had laughs with. I was nervous but not stressed. Again not natural to me with another man, but he was a man. We kissed and had foreplay and it seemed fine. When he was in me in felt fine. Okay it felt really good. When I took him in my mouth, something I think is more intimate than sex, I totally enjoyed pleasing him. It is being with her or any woman. It is so new to me. And the first time it was in front of others, our husbands. I wasn't comfortable. Maybe it's unnatural to me. At the house party all the women were into it. My husband isn't pushing but he is saying I should give it a better shot. He knows I have given a "total" bj to more than one of the men. He said a woman is easier and nothing is going to shoot into me mouth other than being wet. Let it go? Still building to that.

[Shore2Please 611]

Still not sure about this all. We were invited to a party the other night. Four other couples. Two we had been with and two new couples for us. They all live near each other and have played before. We don't live that near. It was the couple we started our adventure with who had the party. She is also the one I had been talking to about my hesitation to be with women. She must have said something to one of the others because when things got started this one outgoing one picked up on that hesitation. Parties are a little hard for me and I think I prefer one on ones but we agreed to this party. So this one new friend says out loud, I heard you don't like to eat pussy. Of course it was a fun thing to everyone but it lead me to doing it in front of everyone. She was not shy about directing me to do things. I went along and after she came everyone cheered. I was a little embarrassed but it did open up the party and I became the center of attention in the beginning. My husband said I was the hit not because of that but because I am attractive and desirable. He is my husband and has to say that I think. I am thinking that it's not terrible to do things with other women, I enjoy them doing it to me. Maybe I will be more relaxed if and when it happens again.

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

We agree with your husband...you are an attractive and desirable woman. Beauty is only skin deep (and we don't know if you are beautiful or not never having seen you), but attraction, desire, and sexiness comes from within and you are all of those things. Glad that you have made it past this next milestone and thanks for keeping us updated.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,024]

So this one new friend says out loud, I heard you don't like to eat pussy. Of course it was a fun thing to everyone . . .

This is a pretty rude thing for somebody to say and the other people's reactions are cruel. I think you should look around for a new party group.

[sunbuckus 3,567]

I agree with SW. Not only was it rude but quite a small minded thing to say. There are plenty of women who swing who aren't bisexual. They shouldn't be discriminated or ridiculed for their sexuality and "not liking to eat pussy".

[cplnuswing 4,713]

There's a term in the Lifestyle called "bi-furious". For some reason, a few bi women find it their mission in life to try to convert others and also don't seem to recognize the concept of boundaries when it comes to another female.

 

My response to that comment would have been a shrug and half-joking "nope, sure don't" with the other half being some direct eye contact with enough flint in them to know my next response wasn't going to be joking at all if she wanted to persist with this. If your hosts didn't jump in to redirect when they saw her out of bounds and sensed your unease, then you need to find another party group.

[njbm 2,870]

We've been to overly bi parties where the guys end up watching TV. We prefer hetero swaps. We like everyone playing.

[TricianMike 772]

There's a term in the Lifestyle called "bi-furious". For some reason, a few bi women find it their mission in life to try to convert others and also don't seem to recognize the concept of boundaries when it comes to another female.

 

My response to that comment would have been a shrug and half-joking "nope, sure don't" with the other half being some direct eye contact with enough flint in them to know my next response wasn't going to be joking at all if she wanted to persist with this. If your hosts didn't jump in to redirect when they saw her out of bounds and sensed your unease, then you need to find another party group.

 

Before we condemn everyone at the party, there are questions to ask Mrs. Shore. Did you know when you said yes to the party, did you know that the bi part might be there? Are you against trying this or afraid of it and what people might think because you are doing it. I have read your thread and you sound intelligent. I don't think someone could shame you into doing anything you don't want to do. You wrote that you were willing to meet a friend and try new things with her, you just were not into putting on a show. To me you are curious and don't want to show your inexperience. If this is not your first party you knew this was bound to happen and sex in front of others was going to be there. You had been with two of the couples before and the women played. You said her telling you to do this was said in fun, not in a mean way. If one of the men had said to suck him would that have been different.

Thinking back, did you enjoy doing it? What were your feelings when you made her cum? And most important, did you enjoy the party? Some have said you should find new friends, is that what you want or do you like these people to play with?

[Shore2Please 611]

Thanks Tricianmike for you understanding. Since I found this site my attitude changed on a few things. I read some posts old and new and everyone has opinions and I like the give and take. The more I read the more curious I become. This whole bi thing was never a thought before. You can say I became curious after my first encounter. Scared too, not sure if or why I should just let it go. A few weeks ago I thought enough to say I wanted a 1-1 with a friend. Thinking it would be easier and I could go at my own pace. Even with the men I have met, I am more comfortable 1-1. This party, I figured there would be bi play with the women. When she said eat me it was a fun eat me. There was some sex play going on already. I figured let's do it. Why not now? It's like the first time you do anything ( it wasn't my first) you say here goes and you do it. Just like the first time for sex when I was younger. What did I think. First I was worried that I wasn't good but that went away as she got loud (I do too) and I knew she was excited. To answer your question I felt accomplished and I enjoyed that I was able to do that. New friends are exciting and these friends are still new to us and they are fun.