Is this the letter I should send my wife to bring up some issues?

[gingerandwasabi 39]

Hi Everyone:

I've been lurking here now and then for over a year. My wife and I have been involved in sharing our fun for a couple of years. All in all it has been fantastic but some of it has been kind of rocky for us. I guess this is a rocky moment. I hate to make my first post such a needy one but I've seen you all give such great advise to others. I've written a letter below to my wife expressing my frustrations. I know it's too full of negative emotions to send. so I guess I am asking for your advice about what I should say. Thanks.

 

Hey Hun:

I want to talk about our sexuality. You are my love and a fantastic sex partner. I am always satisfied with the quality of our sex together but not always with the way we go about it. I absolutely love the fun and freedom of including other people in our sexuality, but it has not been going the way I like lately. I'd like to ask a few things of you.

 

1) Don't come home with me after a party weekend and lose all interest in sex with me during the week. When we go from all the fun of flirting and touching and fantasy with others that happens on a party weekend and then you lose all enthusiasm for sex with me when we are home alone, it sends the message that you are attracted to others but not to me. Either keep up the fun with me or stop flirting with the other guys and girls all together. I've asked for you to stop pulling away from me after these weekends before. I'm tired of asking. Just agreeing to have sex after my advances is not enough either. You were hot on Saturday night when (several guys and girls names) and whoever else wanted you. I'm not the boring guy you go home too. Either you want me or you don't. Wanting me unenthusiastically or only occasionally if the laundry is put away sends a message that sex with me is not that great and it robs me of what could be a beautiful memory and fantasy with you.

 

2) Don't expect one set of rules for you and another for me. If we go to a strip club together enjoy my fun too. I'm happy to buy you dances with the girls and watch your skin get all goose bumpy but don't disappear if I get a dance. Stay and watch and enjoy how my hips look in rhythm with hers or enjoy the expression on my face. Find something sexy about it. Similarly, I'm happy to give you your freedom to enjoy flirting with a back room bachelor party full of guys at the strip club but don't make me come find you hours later. Similarly, I've let you go off with a stripper and a stranger to the back and waited for you to return. I'm not asking for the same thing but you take a lot of latitude and don't give back in return. Similarly, I've enjoyed letting you kiss other guys in the parking lot and at the bar and even drove you around while you made out in the back seat with our guy friend. You know we have girl friends that would do the same with me but you have not been comfortable with the same type of thing. Similarly, I'm happy to hold your drink or shoes or phone and watch you all night on the stripper pole at the party with a new girlfriend but I doubt you would allow me to spend a similar amount of time chatting or dancing with another girl? I'm not asking for you to stop enjoying anything. I hope you won't stop because most of the things you do are a real turn-on for me, but I am not comfortable with things being so unequal. Either you find a way to enjoy me playing too or I'm afraid we better stop playing. I like seeing you with other men and women but I'm not a cuckold to be humiliated or cheated on. I'm afraid that's where we are headed unless there is room for two to play.

 

3) Don't take back what you have enjoyed with me. It feels like a slap in the face. I've seen your skin turn to goose bumps from a strippers lap dance. I've heard you say wow, I'm amazed at how much I enjoyed the touch and kisses of another woman on the orgy pile. I've seen you orgasm while (friends name) worked her fingers in your pussy. I've seen you seduce several ladies on the stripper pole. But, I've also heard you say over and over I don't like girls. It's not true and it robs me of the fun I thought was there in that memory. I've seen you totally rock a strangers cock with your oral skills and tell me on other nights how you liked it. And then you take it all back other times. I've seen you have multiple orgasms in a foursome and say it didn't go well. And the hardest I have ever seen you cum was fantasizing about a gangbang story or imagining more than one guy with me and a dildo. Then you say the next day that you don't remember that story or that I was shoving the dildo in your mouth rather than how much you enjoyed it. I loved doing all these things with you, but when you say you don't, you rob me of my enjoyment. If you don't enjoy these things fine. We don't have to do them. I think we would both be missing out though.

 

I know I'm the one that has lead us into most, if not all of these extracurricular activities. If you don't want to continue you can simply blame the whole experiment on me and we can stop. But I'm hoping you won't choose that option. I'm hoping you will see all the fun and great times we have had sharing with other people. I'm hoping you will cherish our times doing crazy things, and relive them with me for days and weeks afterwards. I'm hoping you will love me enough to enjoy my pleasure as much as yours, and get excited for the possibilities that have not yet been discovered. I promise to keep you safe, and I'm not asking to fuck everyone I see. I am asking for you to be enthusiastic about our fun and for that to include me playing too. No more me watching you shoot off bottle rockets on a Saturday night and then you denying the whole thing. How about we both enjoy the fireworks and then relive it the next week or two until we go out again?

Love,

Hubby

[two4youinswva 3,068]

A quick reply to get the discussion rolling:

 

How many of these "Don'ts" can you change to "Do"?

 

1) "Let's try to keep our sexual interest and activity up throughout the week by building on the weekend fun".

 

2) "Let's revisit our rules, and see if there is room to move closer in our boundaries".

 

3) "Let's commit to each other to be open, honest, and non-judgmental about what we do and don't like".

[kikonkrome 844]

Does it have to be a letter that you send?? Can you go to dinner with her and use the letter as a crib sheet?? I think it makes valid points about what you are enjoying and what you are not. I think taking this conversation to a public place with intimacy would be in order to keep yourselves focused on the subject.

 

If she denies the things you see her enjoying, do you know what she enjoys that she doesn't deny? Does she have any suggestions to improve your love life at home?

 

I didn't really think the letter was negative, I expected worse. I know I wouldn't send it, too one sided. I would use it as notes though.

[gingerandwasabi 39]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I felt a little stupid posting it but I'm already glad I did. If I was giving myself advise I would probably say that anger and complaints rarely produce the results hoped for. I guess I'm just frustrated that I ask for things and don't feel heard. Keep the suggestions coming and I will put together some discussion points for us. Has anyone else experienced this whole that never happened thing?

[kikonkrome 844]

Has anyone else experienced this whole that never happened thing?

 

I never got outright denial. I did, however, have to have a pretty frank talk about her talking about what happened and whether she enjoyed it. Pretty tough to explain, but she wouldn't put into words that she enjoyed the activities at the club, but she always wanted to go. No, it didn't make any sense to me either.

 

Last time she had sex with another guy was the first time she said how much she enjoyed it. She said she was REALLY embarrassed by it (telling me how great it was) and was blushing, really stammering, etc. You are right being negative about it will not produce an honest response, which I am guessing is what you are looking for.

 

I am glad she did become more forthright, it's brought us closer.

 

People deny stuff all the time, for all sorts of reasons. It's weird I will admit.

[gingerandwasabi 39]

We talked last night and this morning and are really feeling better about the issues I raised. I think the hard part about communicating is that we don't notice the incremental changes that take place if there has not been clear words spoken about how we have already changed. I think me initiating an occasional extra how are you feeling about things and what would you like to do different would go a long way to head off frustration but it can be hard to get her to talk about it. I also think I probably owe her an apology for encouraging her to enjoy little situations where she has fun and I just got to watch. I encouraged her so it's not really fair to say then I deserve the same. Maybe just that I want the same not that I deserve it. The only problem is that this morning she agreed to make an effort to try to enjoy seeing me have fun too. I do have a little fear that my apology might take all that back, but we are in this together for the long haul swinging or no swinging so it's not like I want to hold her to something she doesn't want. It's amazing how much communication this all takes!

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I'm glad things are going better after talking. It sounds like there is a lot going on and a lot brewing over time.

 

I will say that with your wife's personality as I see it from your perspective, a letter or email may be a great way to go. She can read it and see that there are some serious things going on. She can take some time to read part by part and go over it again. She can think about it before just denying. It's really heartfelt and clear.

 

For me, if my husband complained verbally to me, honestly, I might tend to brush it off a bit or get defensive. If he sent me a note, I would know it was serious, and we really needed to make changes. It sounds terrible, and we do communicate quite well and swing pretty well, but I think a note is a good idea. It is composed and thought out, methodical. It would work for me. Whether it would work for your wife, I can't say.

[angelkin 1,326]

I try to use phrases like "When xx happens, it makes me feel xx". In this way, you are owning your feelings without openly placing blame on the other person, it's more like a cause and effect statement. My guess is that we all get better results when we speak this way during a disagreement. It removes the need for the other person to defend themselves and it puts them in your frame of mind, creating empathy.

[Tahoecple 319]

Maybe I’m missing something, it wouldn’t be the first time, but from what I read, I came away from your letter with one impression. You talked about strip clubs, bachelor parties, playmates, and on and on. You didn’t say anything about any activities involving just the two of you. That is other than your wife’s lack of libido the week after a party at home.

 

For us anyway, the swinging lifestyle is the appetizer for a well-balanced, robust personal sex life between the two of us. Too much of a good thing is never a good thing. If the total focus of your sex life is with outside stimulation from other people instead of your spouse you are looking for trouble.

 

It’s all but impossible to give any advice without hearing from both sides so you can take mine with a grain of salt. I would suggest that you two focus on just the two of you for a while. Instead of going to a strip club or swingers party, you might consider a romantic get away with just the two of you. You two sound like you need to strengthen your marital sex lives before you add any extramarital stimulation to the mix.

 

The swinging lifestyle can add spark to an already strong and vibrant marital sex life. However, the swinging lifestyle will also expose and amplify any sexual or personal problems in a relationship.

 

I would suggest you and your wife open an honest, open, and frank line of communication. Don’t be confrontational be communicational, and make it a two way street with both of you interacting with the other. I would also suggest that you do this at a neutral location away from home where you won’t be disturbed, maybe take a weekend get away with just the two of you. In addition, whatever you do make sure she is aware of the purpose of the getaway, don’t blindside her with it when you get there.

 

I also like the idea of the letter. You might suggest that you both put in writing how you feel about the way things are going in your relationship, what’s right with your relationship, what’s wrong with it, and what you both can do to make it stronger. Also keep in mind you might not like everything she has to say and she may not like everything you have to say. The secret is not to fight about the problems, instead to fix them.

 

I hope this helps, it’s just a thought.

 

PS, I don’t have a degree in how to make a marriage work, I only have 47 years’ experience being married to the same woman, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[JandKinBoise 858]

I can see how she got herself into this position, with your help. I think if you initiate sex outside the marriage, the plan you set forth in the beginning is the plan until it's changed.

 

J agreed to MMF with me but was very vocal about her jealousy issues and does not want to see me with a woman. She can screw any guy she wants but I can't have any woman at all. Well, that's fine. I have had other women and no one can measure up. But that's me.

 

Take a look at how you went into this and the expectations that followed, vocalized or not. I like the idea of the letter. It's too easy to let the conversation drift. With a letter, it's all there, no input asked for until all is read. I think it is a great way to get the ideas across. The advise on how to word it will help bring her to your side if that is possible, rather than to make her defensive. Good luck

[AngelandTiger 364]

"I also think I probably owe her an apology for encouraging her to enjoy little situations where she has fun and I just got to watch."

 

No, you don't. If you encouraged her to do things that you didn't get to be a part of (something that is VERY, VERY common in swinging....in my experience, and others' as well, under normal circumstances the female of the couple has exponentially more options to play than the male, and then expressed displeasure to her when she followed your suggestion, that's what you should apologize for.