If money is involved can it still be swinging?

[yawanna 17]

I have a question......several posters here offer links to their... PAY sites. Is swinging being exploited beyond clubs and events for money? When an exchange of cash (or credit card numbers) comes into the equation....is it still swinging?

 

And puhleeze no one give me that old tired line of 'we separate the business sex from the swinger sex'. Far too often we've seen a 'couple' ask for a 'donation'.

 

Is swinging confused with prostitution by some?

[fun_pairTX 26]

Seriously, I have never heard of anyone asking for a donation. If anyone ever asked us for one the response would be a large amount of laughter.

[WildFlower 17]

I have never had anyone ask for donations either. That doesn't fit my definition of swinging. I would call that just plain rude to ask for a donation of any kind be it for there pay site or to contribute to there vacation fund. That would be way to forward.

I would not call it swinging if the couple asked for cash I would call it prostitution.

[StacyCat 30]

I never seperate my "business sex" with my personal fun. Its my motto not to do anything on camera that I wouldnt do off :-)

 

I do have a pay site, but its on my terms. I would never ask the guys to put up any money (thats way too close to prostitution for my legal and moral tastes) I wont attend most local "swingers" parties because I believe that they are more to make money for the organizers than for actual swinging. I saw an advertisement that asked for 75 dollars for men, part of a couple or not!

 

But, there have been a lot of talk on webmaster boards on how to "exploit" or "get" swingers to join sites. I just offer my sexual truth :-)

 

But, sex for money is prostitution.

[yawanna 17]

sex for $$ is yes prositution (altho not in the criminal code definition....it's offering to trade sex for $$ that's illegal...actually taking $$ but not asking or offering is legal )

 

I understand businesses that offer a venue, be it a bar or hotel room, where people can pay a 'membership fee' for the opportunity of being in one location with other people who may, or may not, become sexual partners during the day, evening, what have you.

 

Selling pics of yourself/yourselves online, pics depicting supposed 'swinger' encounters is what I'm asking about really.

 

Swinging offers the opportunity to have real life experiences...I wonder what line was crossed, if any, where some 'swingers' sell their pics.

 

 

We can get it for free..why pay?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

As someone who had a pay site depicting my lifestyle, I'll give you my opinion.

 

 

Swinging is swinging. Yes, there were occasions where I did swing on camera. But money was not involved with people that I swang with.

 

In those cases the people paying money are those who wish to view the pictures of those encounters, not the people I was actually having sex with. And like StacyCat I would never do anything (or anyone) on camera that I wouldn't have done without a camera present.

 

THere are some sites/couples that do (I feel) exploit the swinging lifestyle to make a buck. They present themselves as swingers and the only extramarital sex they have is what they do on camera and for the sake of the camera/ website. That is a whole different story in my book. At that point, you are having sex to make money (whether or not you are getting paid to actually have sex).

[StacyCat 30]

Julie, that philosophy really came from you. I loved how you ran your site with integrity, and stayed true to yourself :-)

[jen 16]

If something can be done. Someone is willing to sell it and someone else is willing to buy it.

 

To each his/her own.

 

Or something.

[Brit_Pair 62]

I read this thread's title and thought someone over there had come up with a racy new t.v. game show.

 

[519Couple 15]

Swinging for $$$: You mean someone would actual PAY us to do this????

 

[lovers 25]

We have a pay site, but it is completely seperate from swinging. In fact except for a couple we play with on a regular basis, we don't let anybody know that we do a pay site. That way we don't have any "issues" with people who may take the pay site thing the wrong way or simply want to do a "porn star."

[yawanna 17]

ummm... your signature line on all your posts is a direct link to your pay site.

 

[StacyCat 30]

Originally posted by yawanna

We can get it for free..why pay?

 

Im confused on what your question or problem is :-) Is your beef is the picture sets in which we say "this was a swinging party, see what fun we have?" Or is your beef in someone that says "you have to pay me for sex" or "you have to be a member of my site"? Or just a general "i dont like paysites" :-)

 

Yes, swinging is done in real life. and the internet, and offering pictures, uses fantasy to sell stuff :-) I dont see any line being crossed, I take pictures of me having sex (in real life) and put them on my website for my members to have "fantasies" about. I dont use hidden cameras, everyone in my pictures has consented to them. I dont pay people to have sex with me, nor do I accept payment for having sex with them

 

but, most "swinging" websites dont cater to swingers for their members. In fact, every online site caters to the fantasies of their members, because their members think that they cant have what the site offers. You join a "swingers" site because you like fantasizing about swingers, you join an interracial site because you like interracial pictures :-)

[velbuzz 17]

sell said cat

 

Swinging is mutual playing. No one is working. Unfortunately, some of those working realize that swinging is a catch word to lure people looking for fun sex. However, should the person parting with the green do so, that person is no longer swinging either.

 

I trust those that do sell pics of "swingers" have adequately compensated all the models.

 

And finally, to those business people who are operating venues for people to meet, they are not paying for swinging, but the opportunity for others to swing.

[yawanna 17]

StacyCat posted:

 

Im confused on what your question or problem is

 

Swinging = Respect = Discretion = sex with people including and with other than your primary partner. At what point does swinging become a source of income?

 

A pay site for people to share what they call their swinging experiences, stories and pics, is something I don't see fitting in there. I didn't say it was prostitution, but I pondered if it may be?

It was my original understanding that if and when swingers took pics, they were for personal shared use only, with permission. For those pics and stories to be put up for sale (or rent as it were) means it wasn't just like minded people getting together for their own amusement and enjoyment, it was a means of making some cash, too.

 

The equation Swinging = Respect = Discretion = Sex = cash ? ......

 

We know swinger club owners/operators who set up the venue, the bar, the location, the dj, the advertising and run the club for the night. Sure they may participate in activities during the evening of the house party or the off premise club, and we pay our membership or door fees to have the opportunity of participating. We don't begrudge them that as they are running the event so to speak and provided a service and venue for our $$$.

 

Even at house parties, private homes and one couple hosting, we contribute a minimal fee for the food, use of their home and hottub, and BYOB.

 

The connection to sex can = $$ is too great I think for some people to not say 'why the hell not?" and I think why the hell not because it's supposedly only for the participants pleasure, not to be sold online or elsewhere for those who can't or won't participate but for a small fee they can enjoy the pics and stories.

 

It just doesn't equate, for me, into the scheme of things of real swinging.

 

[lovers 25]

"ummm... your signature line on all your posts is a direct link to your pay site. "

 

True. However, when we go to clubs and the like we don't advertise the fact that we have a pay site. That was the point that I was trying to make.

[StacyCat 30]

Originally posted by yawanna

Swinging = Respect = Discretion = sex with people including and with other than your primary partner. At what point does swinging become a source of income?

[/b]

 

ah, I get it now :-) I think.

 

The vast majority of my swinging experiences do not take place on camera. I dont represent myself on my site as a swinger (because I do believe that it is more for couples, im just a single female that likes sex :-)

 

The only pictures that I have on the web are people that have consented to them, they have provided me with identification to show that they are over 18, and signed a model release giving me the rights to use those pictures on my site.

 

And, whenever I do get together to take pictures, hardcore or otherwise, it is "like minded people getting together for their own amusement and enjoyment" I am an exhibitionist. All of my pictures are taken with someone else in the room, and I feed off the energy that my photographer and the other people give me. My "real swinging" doesnt take place in front of a camera, my "sex for exhibitionist pleasure" kinda does.

 

I dont view swinging as a source of income, I view it as a way to get laid more :-) I also dont pay any of my "partners" that I have sex with on the site. They do it for their own exhibitionist pleasure, for seeing themselves as a "porn star" on my website.

 

Does that answer your question?

[yawanna 17]

Does that answer your question?

 

..not really but I very much appreciate the effort

[Michcouple 15]

Frist of all....I think that both Cat and Julie had wonderful responses.

 

There are some amateur websites that do exploit the swinging lifestyle for personal gain. However, you don't find those people here at Swingers Board. I've never seen anyone post a message that stated....VISIT MY PORN WEBSITE. People are here to dicuss the issue of swinging.

 

Yes alot of people with website are quick to say they are swingers. Keep in mind that those website follow strict rules by obtaining model releases from those in pictures or videos. As they have to much to lose by taking "secert" pictures.

 

Are people with websites true swingers? Well in your opinion they wouldn't be, and your always intitled to your opinion. Just keep in mind there's a big difference between making love to your spouse and swing sex.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by Michcouple

There are some amateur websites that do exploit the swinging lifestyle for personal gain. However, you don't find those people here at Swingers Board. I've never seen anyone post a message that stated....VISIT MY PORN WEBSITE. People are here to dicuss the issue of swinging.

 

Say, MichCouple...I wanted to interject here that the reason you don't see those types of post here is because Julie and mods are quick to remove that type of spam...otherwise, I think we might be overrun with it. That is what makes this Board better than most.

 

OK...back to topic...thanks - EBF

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Originally posted by Michcouple

Yes alot of people with website are quick to say they are swingers. Keep in mind that those website follow strict rules by obtaining model releases from those in pictures or videos. As they have to much to lose by taking "secert" pictures.

 

Are people with websites true swingers? Well in your opinion they wouldn't be, and your always intitled to your opinion. Just keep in mind there's a big difference between making love to your spouse and swing sex.

 

 

As far as the "strict rules" go. Those have nothing to do with whether or not those participating are swingers, and everything to do with the need to run a legal website. We've seen here lately how easy it is to get on the wrong side of the law with something very simple (ie. the recent club raids), and amateur websites deal with the same things. One of the things that they HAVE to do to remain legal is to document that all parties are

a) of age to participage in such photos

b) have consented to doing so

thus the reasons for the model releases, and obtaining ID's of those in the photos, as well as not using hidden cameras, etc.

 

Just because we swing (and sometimes choose to swing on camera) doesn't mean we don't want to stay out of jail.

[EternallySingle 32]

I had a TOTALLY different experience to ralate about the swinging for $$$$ issue (being a single male and all) but I see its totally unrelated to the topic at hand.

 

Putting up a site and putting "swinger" on it is a good way to attract voyeurs. Its also a good way to make a buck or too. Nothing wrong with that as long as everyone involved negotiates their cut and is paid on time. The only time I would see a problem would be when someone from one of those sites holds a "contest" to meet fans after you pay $20,$30,$40 a month to join. Give me a break.

 

OK, I got duped once, but thats my fault for believing stripper whose website was three years old and her pictures were even older. LOL

[yawanna 17]

Thanks all.. especially Eternally what I'm saying is swingers setting up pay sites for people to read, or see pics of their swinger encounters.. is that still swinging? Are they swingers?

 

Am I not being clear?

 

 

I can be more if I'm not

[StacyCat 30]

Originally posted by yawanna

Thanks all.. especially Eternally what I'm saying is swingers setting up pay sites for people to read, or see pics of their swinger encounters.. is that still swinging? Are they swingers?

 

OKay, what do you define swingers as? A couple or person that has sex outside of their primary relationship? Does that definition have anything to do with that their profession is, or other things they like to do in their free time?

 

I would more define if someone is a "real" swinger as if they swing in real life without a camera. For example, Julie is a swinger, even though she filmed a few of her experiences. Would you doubt that? I like having sex, either on film or not. Doesnt mean that I am not really having sex because its on film? :-)

[WildFlower 17]

I think they are still swingers if they still do the same things off camera on there free time as they do on camera for there personal enjoyment.

Example I am a quilter. I love to quilt. I can do it for my own pleasure or I can make one and sell it. I am still a quilter even though I am getting paid to do it. The best job in the world is doing something you love and getting paid to do it. Such as swinging and have pictures tooken while doing it.

I still stand by my opinion though that a couple who has a pay site askes you to donate or give money to them after just meeting them. That is just plain tacky.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by yawanna

Thanks all.. especially Eternally what I'm saying is swingers setting up pay sites for people to read, or see pics of their swinger encounters.. is that still swinging? Are they swingers?

 

Am I not being clear?

 

 

I can be more if I'm not

 

After reading this thread, it did take a while to figure out just what the hell everyone was talking about. Now, I have attended a swing party where there was an admittance charge ($100 a couple). The woman who ran the thing was doing it to make money; it was a business. And that was the first (and last) time I attended one of her parties. Was it swinging? Well, the couples who showed up were swinging; the people running the thing were not.

 

As for what yawanna is referring to here, I would say no. Putting up a pay site to show pictures of you and your SO fucking other couples is pornography, not swinging. You can call it a "swinger's site" from now until the cows come home; I don't give a rat's ass. You can call a Volkswagen a Lamborghini, too, but saying it is will not make it so.

 

-- Bear

[yawanna 17]

Thanks all....esp. bear_n_hunny . I'm trying to get my head around this issue because of recent events in our local swinger community. One woman we know liked having her picture taken naked and playing, by swinger friends, and asked that her pics be posted on various free sites, including the friends free msn site, several other free msn sites, and a few sites for local swinger clubs, again free. She then set up her own site that you had to pay to see her pictures.

 

I understand club owners and event organizers running events and 'dances' for swingers. Yes there are costs incurred, capital funds for set up, etc. etc. and yes those are legit business ventures run by and for swingers..the ones I support anyway. But the people making the $$ are still separate and apart, in my opinion anyway, from the folks paying and playing. I know first hand how lucrative a market it can seem to be for people in swinging thinking 'hey! I can make some cash from this!' and I think that if they pursue that, they are no longer swingers.

 

This forum is yet another issue....the webperson offers some pay per view pics and I think the overwhelming majority of this site being free offsets any inference that this is a cash grab venue. Plus it's not attached to any other for profit from swingers ventures.

 

Can a swinger cross over into pay for porn and still be a swinger? Stacey cat has said that pay sites are kept separate from private swinging activities. And I sort of get the quilting analogy.

So are some swinger activities done for pay, or for personal and private pleasure only? My understanding of swinging, including club owners, is that they were supporting and evolving the swinger community, and not using it as a stepping stone to becoming Nina Hartley or something.

 

Is swinging an alternative lifestyle that we, without cost, share?or can it be turned into pay for porn and you get to pop back in every so often and be just a swinger?

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Originally posted by WildFlower

I think they are still swingers if they still do the same things off camera on there free time as they do on camera for there personal enjoyment.

 

What she said.

[yawanna 17]

bingo. Personal enjoyment. Not pay per view. My thought anyway.

 

and it's spelled 'their' not 'there'.

 

[Tom & Bonnie 99]

Originally posted by Brit_Pair

I read this thread's title and thought someone over there had come up with a racy new t.v. game show.

 

 

Well, if it was a new TV Show it would mst definitely originate with the British. They have contributed more hit tv shows to the Americans than I could name!

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

This is one of the most interesting threads we’ve read in a long time. We don’t necessarily believe that swinging and swinger pay sites are mutually exclusive, but we do understand how some might feel that the integrity of a swinging encounter is comprised when photos of that encounter are sold.

 

We aren’t very familiar with the pay sites for Stacy and Angie & Ken, but we knew Julie’s old site pretty well. There is little doubt in our minds that Julie is a true swinger. Anyone who is a regular on this board knows how devoted she is to this lifestyle. Just because she was able to make some money by selling some photos of her adventures doesn’t make that any less true. Furthermore, as Julie herself said, there isn’t anything (or anyone) she did on camera that she wouldn’t have done off camera. Regardless of the circumstances, Julie and her playmates experienced mutual pleasure.

 

Still, it would seem rather awkward to have to ask your playmates to sign model releases. If we tried to use photos of our playmates and us on a pay site, we’d be afraid that they would think we were using them. Furthermore, if we ever made a profit from those photos, we would feel obligated to give a cut to the people who helped us make those photos. That would be awfully close to paying people for sex.

 

We’d love to hear how the pay site operators go about approaching other couples about the idea of appearing on their sites. It seems easy to solicit lonely single guys (we see them all them time on pay sites where cuckold sex and gangbangs are prominent themes), but soliciting couples seems much more complicated. We enjoy taking photos our encounters (in fact, we have a fantasy about having a pay site of our own), but it’s hard enough to find couples who are willing to be photographed even for personal use.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Originally posted by Greg & Sheryl

Still, it would seem rather awkward to have to ask your playmates to sign model releases. If we tried to use photos of our playmates and us on a pay site, we’d be afraid that they would think we were using them. Furthermore, if we ever made a profit from those photos, we would feel obligated to give a cut to the people who helped us make those photos. That would be awfully close to paying people for sex.

 

We’d love to hear how the pay site operators go about approaching other couples about the idea of appearing on their sites. It seems easy to solicit lonely single guys (we see them all them time on pay sites where cuckold sex and gangbangs are prominent themes), but soliciting couples seems much more complicated. We enjoy taking photos our encounters (in fact, we have a fantasy about having a pay site of our own), but it’s hard enough to find couples who are willing to be photographed even for personal use.

 

I would never approach our swinging friends and ask them to be in pictures. That just seemed wrong to me and made me feel like I was using them. 99% of the photos I did were with other swingers who either

a) had their own website, so we shared rights to the photos

b) were people who knew me through my website and approached me about being in the photos. In which case in return for allowing me to share the photos they recieved free access to the site.

 

I was lucky enough to have a core group of friends who were real swingers with websites. We played together both on and off the camera. Until I met those guys I never did any hardcore pics with anyone except my husband, simply because I never would have felt right approaching our swinging friends and asking them to be on my website.

[WildFlower 17]

It looks like the majority of the people who answered this post think that people who have pics posted on pay sites and swing on there free time are still considered swingers. I totally agree.

But alas we all have different definitions and ideas of what swinging means to us. Yawanna it seems your opinion does not agree with my opinion of swinging in this instance. But thats what is so great about the world everybody is different ( thank goodness) and each have there own opinion.

I would like to thank Julie for having this site it is awesome. I love coming on here and reading all the posts and replies. Some posts have been really helpful to me personally.

[Greg & Sheryl 368]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie

99% of the photos I did were with other swingers who either

a) had their own website, so we shared rights to the photos

b) were people who knew me through my website and approached me about being in the photos.

I was lucky enough to have a core group of friends who were real swingers with websites.

 

Thank you for clarifying that, Julie. We had noticed that many of your photos featured other webgirls, so we suspected much of this to be true. Being a webgirl must have made you part of a very exclusive sorority.

[yawanna 17]

It looks like the majority of the people who answered this post think that people who have pics posted on pay sites and swing on there free time are still considered swingers. I totally agree.

 

Thank you wildflower

 

I don't have a totally set position on this issue, yet.... thus my asking for other's input on it. I have had my pictures posted on swingers personal msn sites and on one swinger club website. I was approached a few times to turn my pics and swinging into pay per view and I refused. It didn't sit right with me and my philosophies about swingers which are that it's free, it's shared and it's equal. No one except the club owner or event sponsor, who have paid out capital or front $$, should attempt or succeed in making money from a supposed 'lifestyle'.

 

At the same time, I have no problem with Julie selling a portion of her site of sex pics to offset the cost here. It's a balance issue..most of this site is free. She doesn't have a club or other swinger related business sustaining, or dictating the content, and I don't mind that. I should in fact make a donation to keep this site going. I did, after all, get my free tshirt just the other day

 

 

[yawanna 17]

..thank you julie

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

Originally posted by yawanna

Thank you wildflower

 

No one except the club owner or event sponsor, who have paid out capital or front $$, should attempt or succeed in making money from a supposed 'lifestyle'.

 

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that just like a physical swingers club, there are costs involved in having a website. Those who have done so will tell you that most who have amateur pay websites are lucky to make enough to cover the costs, and it's usually at least 6 months of having one before that even happens.

 

So, while there are many out there who start websites just for the money, most of those don't last simply because they find that it takes too long to make that money. Those that stick around are those who have their hearts in it and really enjoy what they do. Whether they be just exhibitionists showing off naked, or swingers sharing part of their lifestyle.