I'm having a hard time with swinging. I really don't want to.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

I’m really having a hard time with this. My GF was into this before we met and wants me to do this with her. It makes me feel less valued, inadequate and I feel guilty in many ways.

I don’t understand it. I don’t have a burning desire to sleep with other women and she keeps pushing me on them.

It also does nothing for me for her to sleep with guys. I really don't like it. Her with girls is not an issue for me but it also doesn't turn me on.

We've had some experiences but to be honest they weren't a big deal.

I’m trying to do this for her and she gave me an ultimatum about it. She was dumbfounded saying she'd think this was every man's fantasy. Can you point me to a resource that will allow me to get to a neutral place so this isn’t so unpleasant?

I have so many conflicting emotions about this in a wide variety of ways.

I really could use some help.

sunbuckus · July 13, 2015

First of all, welcome to the forum, benawyl. I'm sorry that you had to come here under your circumstances though.

Second, swinging isn't for everyone and clearly you aren't at all interested while it seems like this is something your girlfriend would like to continue doing in her life. This is a big difference of interest. Some people are happy with monogamy and others aren't. Since seeing her with someone else doesn't do anything for you, this is going to be a very difficult decision for the both of you...and I think it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. I know it's always a tough decision to walk away from a relationship but when two people have a difference of opinions on matters (such as religion, politics, family, monogamy, etc.) if it causes too much dissonance within the relationship, it is a chasm that will only grow with time. If swinging is more of a lifestyle for your girlfriend, then she is better off finding someone else who wants the same. And you are better off with someone who wants monogamy. If you two continue, she'll probably have growing resentment that you don't want to swing. Meanwhile, you will continue to feel the way that you do and even have your own resentment or bitterness if she continues to push you into it.

However, if your girlfriend sees swinging as a hobby that she can walk away from, then that's what she needs to do right now if she values you and the relationship above swinging. Many, many, many of the couples here see swinging as that...if one half of a couple decides to stop swinging then they both do and return to monogamy. For those couples, this is a fun hobby that they do together. If it stops being fun for one, it's not fun for both.

You'll also hear the advice of "going the pace of the slowest person". In this case, the slowest person is you. Your girlfriend should stop pressuring you and if you are ever ready in the future, you would bring it up and you two would go slowly from there.

Since you have used the word "unpleasant"...I sense that you are definitely not ready for any swinging at all and your girlfriend should listen to that feeling that you have. I hope you have told her that you feel that way. If not, then you two should sit down and have a heart-to-heart talk.

Also, I don't think you need to "find a neutral place"...you feel the way you do about this. Listen to your needs and feelings, too. I hope you let us know how your situation unfolds.

MrDiscover · July 13, 2015

Hi, welcome and thanks for your honest post. I think the ultimatum is the biggest red flag, it tells a lot about how unbalanced this is. In my humble opinion, the last thing you should do is giving in and only do it to please her. The most likely outcome of that scenario will be a very sad one.

Sorry.

MrDiscover · July 13, 2015

This is a reply on another discussion here, but were the role of man and woman are reverse. Still, very good advice I like to pass on here:

Personally, I don't think you are both ready yet...not from what you have said. As Sw Pa Couple said, she should want this as well, not just because you want it. If she isn't interested for herself, then it WILL NOT WORK. We have met couples in the past where the woman was 'just going along' thinking the man would eventually 'get over it' and move on. Thing is, the man then thinks that she is also interested and wants to do it more. This always ends up badly.

SW_PA_Couple · July 13, 2015

This is an unenviable situation. I can think of no place to point except to the doorway of a marriage counselor's office. There are some who feature themselves as being life-style-friendly.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

I can't just back out of it. I don't think that would be fair. Plus one girl I played with has already made plans to be at our next big event because she wants to play again. I feel obligated? What I'd really like to do is acquire a taste for it.

My whole life experience with non monogamy has been with don't ask don't tell open relationships. That's how we started. We were just playmates once or twice a week for an hour but it evolved to us living together. It's not so hard if I have no knowledge.

She on the other hand wants to hear about women I sleep with

I appreciate you all letting me vent. I have absolutely no one to talk to about this. I can't use the forum on SLS as it's linked to our profile.

If you guys are willing to bare with me I can go over what has happened so far. What the goals seem to be at least.

Thank you for listening.

MrDiscover · July 13, 2015

Why would that be not fair, benawyl? People change. And lives. As you say, it was different when it was only a meeting once in a while. Now you are a couple, other things no doubt have changed too. And they will keep changing. Sometimes in a big way, ways you never thought would happen and prevent you and/or her to do what they like so much. Which is not a problem if you both can discuss those changes. But ultimatums will not help.

Of course we are here to listen, so please do vent your concerns/fears/ideas if you want.

sunbuckus · July 13, 2015

You shouldn't feel obligated to play with anyone...it doesn't make it fun for you and if she knew that you felt obligated, she'd probably feel guilty for playing with you.

Please do share more of your situation, if you wish. The more you share the more we get a picture of how the situation is for you two.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

Why would that be not fair, benawyl? People change. And lives. As you say, it was different when it was only a meeting once in a while. Now you are a couple, other things no doubt have changed too. And they will keep changing. Sometimes in a big way, ways you never thought would happen and prevent you and/or her to do what they like so much. Which is not a problem if you both can discuss those changes. But ultimatums will not help.

Of course we are here to listen, so please do vent your concerns/fears/ideas if you want.

It wouldn't be fair because I've made a commitment to give it a run. A commitment that is leading her into a major life decision. We were both at a crossroads outside of our relationship, jobs, relocating, other people and that's all on hold for now. She is taking a big risk on me so I think I should do the same. If I can't get there my fallback position would be to let her go to clubs and events once a month while I stay home. I might be able to live with that.

I'll go over my issues hopefully somebody can convince me I'm being stupid.

I don't want to be replaced. Not just emotionally but sexually. ( she says this won't happen that the sex is too hot between us and that I'm too good of a man. She's not going anywhere) I overheard her tell the same thing to a couple we know at our last club visit. That this is something she wants for her and it's no reflection on me and how awesome I am.

I feel guilty. It's hard meeting a guy getting along and liking him and then sleeping with his wife. I also felt guilty with women rubbing my legs and grabbing my hand to hold in front of my GF. I find myself holding back with these women because of all this and I'm sure they perceive it as zero interest.

I don't have a burning desire to sleep with other women. I've had sex with a large number of women from a bunch of different countries so I've sown most of my oats. I have a few bucket list items but these days it's going to take very attractive women to even move my needle and even with some of those I talk to them a bit and I'm well I guess I could have sex with her (not damn I gotta have sex with her) I've only felt that way about one girl (maybe two now) out of all the women I've seen and met so far.

She wants me to watch her with another guy. She has softened on this and shelved it for a bit knowing I'm not ready for that. (how do y'all do that? I think that'd be very painful to watch but then again I could be wrong)

She is across the country for three weeks and looking to play a little. Even tho it's within our rules I saw her send a message to a guy and it bothered me. My pulse jumps. I feel sick to my stomach a bit just an overall bad feeling.

Men are dirty to me. It's crazy but they are. If she has sex with another guy right now I want her to shower almost to the Ace Ventura Einhart is a man scene. I really don't want to catch any second hand dick. (I think this rule was broken but can't confirm.) Even with condoms I don't want to be inside her after somebody else. I'd like a next day buffer to get my head around it at a minimum ( again I think this happened)

For her there are few boundaries. One good one is no cumming on her or in her by anybody but me and that guys are covered from the time their shorts come off.

I'm worried that if she watches me with a girl like she fantasizes about that she could get hurt or come to the impression that I prefer sex with them if I get too enthusiastic. So I'm pretty sure I'd hold back which would suck for all three people but that goes back to my guilt.

Same goes for the woman I'm with. I felt bad for the husband of the girl cause she went out gushing to him how awesome I was and that she came eight times. He said I know the whole hotel heard you. I wanted to apologize to him.

So as you can see I have tons of shit going on in my head about all this.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

Also I don't want this to become the focus of our sex life. I read people say that sex gets old as the relationship goes on with monogamy.

That has not been my experience. My sex life with my ex was just as hot 16yrs in as day one. She even wanted to stay FWB after the divorce even tho she wanted the divorce.

I wouldn't feel good about her chatting with a guy while I'm at work getting horny from it then using me for sex. Or sleeping with some guy and having a great time then wanting more sex with me.

I want her to want sex with me just because she is lusting after me at the moment plain and simple. Not because she is in love with me and wants to bond or do something nice for me but because she has to have me inside her plain and simple.

We had phone sex last night (I have permission to play while she is gone but turned down two girls. I'm most likely just going to wait the three weeks she is gone) and the fantasies she came up with had to do with FMF and a same bed full swap. Really I wanted it to just be about us last night but it was our first phone sex so I just went with it.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

You shouldn't feel obligated to play with anyone...it doesn't make it fun for you and if she knew that you felt obligated, she'd probably feel guilty for playing with you.

Please do share more of your situation, if you wish. The more you share the more we get a picture of how the situation is for you two.

Well the girl has booked a weekend with her husband at this thing. I feel like I should try again with her. Maybe the sex will be better the second time since it was my first swap and my GF was in the living room with her husband. I couldn't finish and eventually just wound up masturbating after this girl was done having sex with me.

The other issue is my GF has zero interest in seeing the guy again. According to her he has no idea what he's doing. So that could solve the whole issue although B seems so intent on playing with her emails that he might give her a hall pass.

PleasingHer · July 13, 2015

Congratulations, you are the most clear cut example of someone who should not swing. Those feelings you have are normal for the vast majority of the world. You should not doubt your feelings just because you love this girl.

With swinging there is no middle ground, no gray areas, your either into or not. Your only prolonging the inevitable by humoring her. She took a big risk for you? Awesome! But what she wants in return will only lead to knots in your stomach and guilt.

Swingers enjoy seeing their SO's getting pounded like a nail. We are thrilled we can make some dude's wife cum 8 times. We revel in the passion our SO's display for someone else in bed. I see it as a shared experience because I want her to be pleased in every way and she wants the same for me.

This is NOT something you can wrap your head around. You either feel it or not. There is no advice that can be given to help you reach neutral ground because no such place exists. The best you can hope for is a hotwife situation. She goes and plays, you stay home and try not to think about it. Not a good scenario for you.

Please, please sir cut your losses now. It's going to hurt like hell. But it's clear she needs someone ok with non-monogamy. Sounds like you really care for her, your really wanting to work with her. I have no doubt you will continue to try. But trust your gut, you can't handle this. Sorry

angelkin · July 13, 2015

I just don't have any advice for you because, based solely on what you've shared, I don't think swinging is for you. Casual FWB relationships are one thing, swinging is quite another. I don't think you mentioned how long you and the GF have been together -and that's information that will help us as we share our thoughts about your situation.

Myself, I'm in a new-ish relationship (about 1.5 years now). We talked about non-monogamy early on and like your GF, I wanted it to be something we would seriously consider in the future if we moved into a committed relationship. Unlike you, my BF was on board and we've been exploring slowly, so far only having a couple of experiences with a trusted friend (after we'd been together about a year). I don't have a driving need to swing, but it could be fun once in awhile and it certainly is good conversational fodder for us.

Is there room to slow things down so you can take the time to get comfortable with all of this?

benawyl · July 13, 2015

I just don't have any advice for you because, based solely on what you've shared, I don't think swinging is for you. Casual FWB relationships are one thing, swinging is quite another. I don't think you mentioned how long you and the GF have been together -and that's information that will help us as we share our thoughts about your situation.

Myself, I'm in a new-ish relationship (about 1.5 years now). We talked about non-monogamy early on and like your GF, I wanted it to be something we would seriously consider in the future if we moved into a committed relationship. Unlike you, my BF was on board and we've been exploring slowly, so far only having a couple of experiences with a trusted friend (after we'd been together about a year). I don't have a driving need to swing, but it could be fun once in awhile and it certainly is good conversational fodder for us.

Is there room to slow things down so you can take the time to get comfortable with all of this?

We have been together for a year. The first six months we had just a plain old open relationship. I wanted don't ask don't tell. She would sometimes talk about stuff especially her disappointment in some of these guys.

I've had sex with four women in the year we've been together. Two she doesn't know about and two she does. When I'm away from her I feel no guilt knowing that she doesn't mind. It has zero impact on how I feel about my GF and zero impact on my level of sexual interest with my GF. Anytime she is around tho I feel guilt.

When she was keeping things from me I knew there was a possibility she was playing but not a certainty unless it came out of her mouth.

I think I can do this but it's like getting into a hot bath. I'd like to ease my way in a bit and get used to the temp instead of getting in too fast and getting burned.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

Congratulations, you are the most clear cut example of someone who should not swing. Those feelings you have are normal for the vast majority of the world. You should not doubt your feelings just because you love this girl.

With swinging there is no middle ground, no gray areas, your either into or not. Your only prolonging the inevitable by humoring her. She took a big risk for you? Awesome! But what she wants in return will only lead to knots in your stomach and guilt.

Swingers enjoy seeing their SO's getting pounded like a nail. We are thrilled we can make some dude's wife cum 8 times. We revel in the passion our SO's display for someone else in bed. I see it as a shared experience because I want her to be pleased in every way and she wants the same for me.

This is NOT something you can wrap your head around. You either feel it or not. There is no advice that can be given to help you reach neutral ground because no such place exists. The best you can hope for is a hotwife situation. She goes and plays, you stay home and try not to think about it. Not a good scenario for you.

Please, please sir cut your losses now. It's going to hurt like hell. But it's clear she needs someone ok with non-monogamy. Sounds like you really care for her, your really wanting to work with her. I have no doubt you will continue to try. But trust your gut, you can't handle this. Sorry

Can you tell me why you'd want your partner having great sex with another guy? You say you want to see her pleased in every way (I have no issue with your opinion) but why wouldn't you want to be the one pleasing her in every way?

I appreciate your feedback.

Oh and hotwife is out. I might let her go play and not want to know but I will reserve the right to have sex with somebody if I really want to. I'm not going to do just a one-sided thing.

Lionheart72 · July 13, 2015

Can you tell me why you'd want your partner having great sex with another guy? You say you ant to see her pleased in every way (I have no issue with your opinion) but why wouldn't you want to be the one pleasing her in every way?

I appreciate your feedback.

I can answer only for myself... I have strong voyeuristic tendencies. I like to watch my wife having sex because I like to watch her. I like to see her expressions, listen to her voice and watch how she moves. I can't do this while I'm having sex with her, because my own sensations and reactions blur what I see. It doesn't mean I don't also enjoy having sex with her myself. I do, very much so... but I also enjoy watching her. For her part, my wife loves to perform. Given the chance, she enjoys putting on a show and enjoys knowing that I enjoy watching. Thus, our particular kinks support each other and the experience is one of shared pleasure.

benawyl · July 13, 2015

I can answer only for myself... I have strong voyeuristic tendencies. I like to watch my wife having sex because I like to watch her. I like to see her expressions, listen to her voice and watch how she moves. I can't do this while I'm having sex with her, because my own sensations and reactions blur what I see. It doesn't mean I don't also enjoy having sex with her myself. I do, very much so... but I also enjoy watching her. For her part, my wife loves to perform. Given the chance, she enjoys putting on a show and enjoys knowing that I enjoy watching. Thus, our particular kinks support each other and the experience is one of shared pleasure.

Ok that's cool. In honesty I have no idea how I would react to watching her. I suspect it would be bad but it's an unknown. I don't like the unknown. If it's bad I can't unwatch it you know. That's why I'd like to ease into it.

She definitely wants to watch me and be watched. We kept the door open and let people watch us from a distance last time and she really got off on it.

I guess I should post what's happened so far and the chronology.

PleasingHer · July 13, 2015

Why wouldn't I want to be the one pleasing her in every way?

A fair question. I actually do please her. We have some amazing and often kinky sex. People swing not because something is lacking, but because everything is already great. So you want to share that greatness. I actually hope someone pleases her more than I can. Because what's the point of swapping if the new partner is lousy? I'm not intimidated in the least. I know I have her heart and her love, that's what matters to me. I see her in the throws of ecstasy and in that moment I'm sharing that joy with her, the source of the ecstasy is irrelevant because she is coming home to me. Back to our real life, our true love and back to what we have built together for 15 years.

sunbuckus · July 13, 2015

I don’t have a burning desire to sleep with other women and she keeps pushing me on them.

I've had sex with four women in the year we've been together. Two she doesn't know about and two she does. When I'm away from her I feel no guilt knowing that she doesn't mind. It has zero impact on how I feel about my GF and zero impact on my level of sexual interest with my GF. Anytime she is around tho I feel guilt.

Oh and hotwife is out. I might let her go play and not want to know but I will reserve the right to have sex with somebody if I really want to. I'm not going to do just a one sided thing.

Your posts confuse me, so I'm hoping you can clear it up for me. In your OP, it sounds like you don't want to sleep with other women. Then in the second quote, you're more comfortable hiding and being secretive about having sex with other women than you are about being honest with her with the ones that you have had sex with. And in the third one, even though you don't want to have sex with other women, you want things to be equal (although, it sounds like your girlfriend doesn't have any objections to you playing around) the wording of it makes it sound like you aren't interested in monogamy after all.

So, is it the honesty of having sex with other people that bothers you? For the majority of us here, we value honesty and truthfulness. We see deceit and lying as cheating. When the use of "hiding (some secret)" is in a post, it brings out the red flags to many of us. I know that the "Don't ask, don't tell," is how some couples operate but it doesn't cultivate intimacy, trust, or communication within the relationship. Perhaps that is what your girlfriend is looking for as well when she would rather have everything open and honest about who you all have sex with and swapping together.

However, I would agree with the posters above...you are definitely not in the right frame of mind to be doing any swinging and that's okay but your girlfriend needs to acknowledge this for you, herself, and the relationship.

sunbuckus · July 14, 2015

Can you tell me why you'd want your partner having great sex with another guy? You say you ant to see her pleased in every way (I have no issue with your opinion) but why wouldn't you want to be the one pleasing her in every way?

I'll answer this question as well, even though the roles are reversed. Why would I want to see Mr. Sun having great sex with another woman? Because I know and acknowledge that I cannot be great at everything in bed for him and that's okay. I don't like to swallow when giving a blowjob so if another woman can give him that pleasure, why would I want to keep him from experiencing that? I'm only in the mood for anal sex once in a while so if a play partner offers anal sex, great! He can experience that, too! Meanwhile, Mr. Sun acknowledges that, "Hey, my wife enjoys having sex with more than one man on occasion." He doesn't have two cocks in order for me to experience the double penetration that I like.

The idea that you have to be everything, sexually or otherwise, to another person is illogical, exhaustive, and puts way too much stress on the person that has that view.

cplnuswing · July 14, 2015

You've received lots of great advice so far, and I agree that I just don't think you are really wired for swinging, and that's totally ok. The vast majority of people aren't wired for swinging, and if you do much reading on this site, you'll find that trying to convert nonswingers to swingers is not our goal here, in fact it is often spoken against.

I do understand though you feel some level of commitment to give it a go. You told her you would try to make it work, and that's what you are trying to do. The problem is finding the right mechanism to make it work for you, but since you yourself feel you aren't wired for it to start with, that's going to be really tough and lead to some serious frustration, which you are already feeling.

If you both are dead set on how you feel, but you both are dead set on making your relationship work, then back up to the last known configuration that did work. Your relationship was on a different level then, but it sounds like some sort of don't ask, don't tell open relationship was working for you then, at least to some degree. It sounds like it worked better than some of what you are trying now, so the only hope I see moving forward is somehow incorporating parts of that into your current relationship. The odds are probably long on making it work long term, but maybe use that as a starting point for a real heart to heart about whether you can both ever give each other what the other wants.

benawyl · July 14, 2015

Alright so here's our chronology in a nutshell. Last August she approached me on a sex site and we became playmates. The sex is hot and frequent.

About Nov. we are spending more time together outside of sex. We know we aren't exclusive she mentions a sex club and that she went one time with her late husband. She mentions we should go sometime and have sex in front of a crowd. No mention of sex with others. She also says we should have a FMF at some point.

Dec. I'm about to have surgery and she says before I do she knows of some huge weekend event how it'd be the most electric thing I've ever done. I was pretty non committal and we didn't go.

NYE I'm at my place recovering from surgery she goes to a swinger event but nothing happens. We are getting more bonded everyday. Some fantasy talk here and there I start hearing about more of her unicorn sessions.

March we are driving out of town and she mentions in passing if she finds a couple to play with would I join her? I kinda said ok if the situation was right and I felt comfortable.

April she is gone for the month. I've moved in.

May she says I've booked us for a weekend long hotel takeover pool party in June. (this was based off my ok I guess we could play with a couple in the car)

June my first time. I was really nervous leading into this for a week. She could tell and was somewhat amused. A lot of stuff going thru my head. A lot of unconscious sighing to relive stress. Her only concern is me kicking somebody's ass or intimidating guys (she admits she has never seen me treat anybody badly ever and relaxes)

Friday I'm amped up. I feel like I'm going into combat or sitting in the locker room before a big game. We meet a great couple who have become great friends (they told me they are coming to the next event today and I'm stoked) he eases me into things. Has his wife and other girls put boobs in my face it helped me relax. Spent the night dancing with my GF and having great sex in the room.

Sat daytime I see people having sex on the balcony and it's no big deal. My GF takes off her top for the first time and that's ok. Guys talk to her and it doesn't bother me. I'm making more friends and having fun in a non sexual way. A group of people are marveling at her body she's 59 and they can't believe it. Every time somebody walks by they ask them how old she is. She opens her wrap and they guess 38-44. Then they feel her boobs are flabbergasted they are natural. One was a guy 32 (I'm 45)it doesn't bother me. She grabs his crotch real quick and I was ok again. We go up to the room and have sex (just us) go back downstairs for the night.

We thought about playing with the young couple (crotch grab guy and his wife who had been rubbing all over me that afternoon) but something went south. We dance a bit I walk around and rescue her from some guy. Then I see her talking to a couple.

Enter B. I go over and sit down and think this isn't going to happen (the guy) my GF knows this girl really wants me talking about how hot I am (GF says why do you think I'm with him) anyway she tells my GF they've been doing this for 6 months but hasn't found anybody she wanted to play with at any clubs but when she saw me she was ready. She makes out with me and has 2 O's by the pool and says let's go. My GF gets the hub to agree to separate rooms (I need this for now). I take the BR and they take the pullout in the living room I leave the door cracked.

After we are done girl gushes to her hub and my GF. My GF is proud of me and said she wanted me to be the girls first time so she would have a positive view of the lifestyle. I said it's like you are farming me out like a pimp. She laughed and said I am.

I had no negative feelings about her and the guy. Not much happened he had a hard time getting an erection then blew as soon as he did. Evidently they were waiting for B and I for an hour.

She has since been telling women at our events how I made the girl cum 8 times she's like proud of it. I don't know why she does this it makes me a bit uncomfortable. They don't need to know that but she keeps bragging about me.

We go out on a date with another couple. They want too have sex we don't. On the way home she's frustrated she can't find a guy like me or a couple like us. I said well there's always more people besides we still have us.

July 4th we go to a pool party at a swing club. A couple that wanted to meet us earlier said they'd see us there. Again she's no go on the guy. I could with the girl but not dying too plus I'm still unsure of the social conventions of all this.

I tell my GF if she see's somebody to play with to use the far inside rooms close the door and I'll stay by the pool. Tell the guy not to get in my face about it and we can go from there. I walk into the community room and there's the only other guy besides me she may be interested in. He introduces himself and says she was telling him how much of a stud I am. Don't know why she was telling him. We go outside and she tells me he propositioned her she told him she'd think about it.

This was info I didn't need. Later she disappeared for a while. I assume she banged him. It kinda depressed my mood. She came out later asked me for sex and I declined asked me to go hang out with her and a girl I again declined. Later we were kinda getting back together she asked me for sex I wasn't ready. She mentions a threesome with said girl I said no I wasn't attracted.

She tells me she loves me for the first time. We hang out just the two of us and then with some friends she asks me to have sex with her again and this time I say yes. I have sex in front of people for the first time she has a massive O but I can't finish.

My last three sessions at events B,GF,GF I can't finish. Normally she just takes off her clothes and I'm 90% there lol.

I did realize while typing this that there is one guy I've met that I could green light for her. I don't think I could watch or want to know but I'd be ok. So perhaps there's a chance there's more.

I'm sorry I wrote a novel but I've been keeping this in and it all came out. I appreciate everyone's help.

benawyl · July 14, 2015

Your posts confuse me, so I'm hoping you can clear it up for me. In your OP, it sounds like you don't want to sleep with other women. Then in the second quote, you're more comfortable hiding and being secretive about having sex with other women than you are about being honest with her with the ones that you have had sex with. And in the third one, even though you don't want to have sex with other women, you want things to be equal (although, it sounds like your girlfriend doesn't have any objections to you playing around) the wording of it makes it sound like you aren't interested in monogamy after all.

So, is it the honesty of having sex with other people that bothers you? For the majority of us here, we value honesty and truthfulness. We see deceit and lying as cheating. When the use of "hiding (some secret)" is in a post, it brings out the red flags to many of us. I know that the "Don't ask, don't tell," is how some couples operate but it doesn't cultivate intimacy, trust, or communication within the relationship. Perhaps that is what your girlfriend is looking for as well when she would rather have everything open and honest about who you all have sex with and swapping together.

However, I would agree with the posters above...you are definitely not in the right frame of mind to be doing any swinging and that's okay but your girlfriend needs to acknowledge this for you, herself, and the relationship.

I said I don't have a burning desire not that I wouldn't sleep with other women. I don't go to a party thinking hell yes I'm going to get laid. I just go to have fun with my GF and if I win the lottery and get struck by lightning at the same time and see a girl I'd want to have sex with I'll do it. (if she's interested) I'm free to play alone anytime I want with only two rules for me. So I'm saying it's just not that exciting to go. I'd be more geeked going to a NFL game than I'll ever be going to a sex club. I'm not opposed to going especially to hang out with friends and my GF just not sexually turned on by the atmosphere. I'm a 6 if 5 is neutral.

Does that make sense? Of the four girls (which is really nothing) one was the girl I was dating prior to this relationship (known) one was B (known) one was a bucket list ONS out of state on business (known after) one was a bucket list ONS (semi known.

Yes she is fine with me playing. She even said I should go have sex with the ex who's trying to get me to come back. I declined my exes advances but that's how much my GF trusts me that she said go do it. It'd be fun for you. I know you aren't going anywhere.

There is one girl she knows I really would like to sleep with. They are going to be at the next thing we are going to my GF says she is going to make it happen. Maybe having actual fun will change my mind a bit?

benawyl · July 14, 2015

I'll answer this question as well, even though the roles are reversed. Why would I want to see Mr. Sun having great sex with another woman? Because I know and acknowledge that I cannot be great at everything in bed for him and that's okay. I don't like to swallow when giving a blowjob so if another woman can give him that pleasure, why would I want to keep him from experiencing that? I'm only in the mood for anal sex once in a while so if a play partner offers anal sex, great! He can experience that, too! Meanwhile, Mr. Sun acknowledges that, "Hey, my wife enjoys having sex with more than one man on occasion." He doesn't have two cocks in order for me to experience the double penetration that I like.

The idea that you have to be everything, sexually or otherwise, to another person is illogical, exhaustive, and puts way too much stress on the person that has that view.

I feel like I'm in direct competition with every guy she has sex with in the lifestyle. That if I can't outdo them that she'll get bored and we'll fall into that stereotypical LTR sex. Where for her it's more about love and bonding than lust.

Well I don't do slow and sensual and every relationship I've ever had the sex stayed hot the entire time. I won't accept less.

So that's another thing I have to deal with. Competition.

PleasingHer · July 14, 2015

Ok thanks Ben for the chronology. It certainly clears things up. So you have been exposed to the lifestyle but from everything else you wrote it's just not your bag. It can be difficult to finish even if your really into it. People are watching, you want to please her, but concerned with your SO as well. But your not into it so I can understand not finishing.

It also appears she took her time seeing if your interested in the lifestyle. Good for her, shows she really does care about you.

However, my advice remains the same. It sounds like it's not your thing. I feel for both of you because it's sounds like the relationship is on relatively stable ground otherwise.

Let's bottom line this:

She really, really enjoys being with other people. It doesn't sound like she does it a lot, but enjoys swinging being on the menu. She is drooling over the main course and your reluctant to even open the menu.

This is just my opinion, I'm not a fly on the wall of your life. But most swingers really want to swing unless something really dramatic happens to change their mind. Most monogamists can't fathom sharing their SO, it's emotional so nothing I can say will help push you through that mental block. It's something you feel deep down. If both of the above are true then it's highly unlikely you can salvage the relationship in its current form. I truly see that you tried, but still feel out of sorts about it. Never, ever compromise your internal motivators. They are your anchor. You and you SO have very different internal motivators. I'm sorry brother, I hope it works out. I just want to prepare you for the worst.

benawyl · July 14, 2015

Ok thanks Ben for the chronology. It certainly clears things up. So you have been exposed to the lifestyle but from everything else you wrote it's just not your bag. It can be difficult to finish even if your really into it. People are watching, you want to please her, but concerned with your SO as well. But your not into it so I can understand not finishing.

It also appears she took her time seeing if your interested in the lifestyle. Good for her, shows she really does care about you.

However, my advice remains the same. It sounds like it's not your thing. I feel for both of you because it's sounds like the relationship is on relatively stable ground otherwise.

Let's bottom line this:

She really, really enjoys being with other people. It doesn't sound like she does it a lot, but enjoys swinging being on the menu. She is drooling over the main course and your reluctant to even open the menu.

This is just my opinion, I'm not a fly on the wall of your life. But most swingers really want to swing unless something really dramatic happens to change their mind. Most monogamists can't fathom sharing their SO, it's emotional so nothing I can say will help push you through that mental block. It's something you feel deep down. If both of the above are true then it's highly unlikely you can salvage the relationship in it's current form. I truly see that you tried, but still feel out of sorts about it. Never, ever compromise your internal motivators. They are your anchor. You and you SO have very different internal motivators. I'm sorry brother, I hope it works out. I just want to prepare you for the worst.

It is a fair and honest point and why we discussed maybe her going by herself at some point in the future. I think there is a winnable solution. I wouldn't have let her take a risk on me otherwise.

She said she'd like to go out about once a month. So it's not an everyday thing.

I did realize one guy I could green light and told her. Plus she is fully bi so theoretically she could get tons of extra fun there right? I'm fine with girls.

I had no issue having sex with her in front of others. It was hot she had a huge O and the shelf on the headboard collapsed during and all the extra sheets fell on me which was kind of funny.

I want this to work. It's the best relationship I've ever had.

cplnuswing · July 14, 2015

You haven't even been together a year yet. That's the answer then, to put it bluntly, y'all don't truly know each other yet, not even close. Once you have years together under your belt, through good and bad, that's when you do know each other and that's when many of your fears would start to drop away IF you are wired for swinging to start with.

If you value a serious long-term relationship with her, and she values the same with you, swinging needs to be shelved for a good while. Once confidence in each other and in the relationship comes, then maybe revisit the subject, starting from scratch as a couple in a stable, matured relationship. That's the only way it's going to work.

sunbuckus · July 14, 2015

How much talking did you two have about exploring the LS together did you two have? Was there a lot of communication or was it more of assumption that since you two had a casual sex relationship that you would naturally be okay with seeing her have sex with other people even as an emotional bond was being built?

Even when two single swingers have met in the LS and come together to have a relationship, the usual step is to take a break from swinging to concentrate on the relationship and build the necessary foundation. When a relationship is new, there's a lot of unknowns and new emotions running rampant. Many swinger couples don't enter the LS until they have been together for many years, sometimes decades. Yes, there are couples who can swing right from the get go but I think they are more the exception than the rule.

I also stick by my previous advice...if she values this relationship with you, as long as you have been honest with her about your feelings about swinging, she should be able to stop her swinging activities to focus on building the relationship she has with you. If her priority is swinging, then you have some serious questions to ask of yourself and where you want to go.

benawyl · July 14, 2015

How much talking did you two have about exploring the LS together did you two have? Was there a lot of communication or was it more of assumption that since you two had a casual sex relationship that you would naturally be okay with seeing her have sex with other people even as an emotional bond was being built?

Even when two single swingers have met in the LS and come together to have a relationship, the usual step is to take a break from swinging to concentrate on the relationship and build the necessary foundation. When a relationship is new, there's a lot of unknowns and new emotions running rampant. Many swinger couples don't enter the LS until they have been together for many years, sometimes decades. Yes, there are couples who can swing right from the get go but I think they are more the exception than the rule.

I also stick by my previous advice...if she values this relationship with you, as long as you have been honest with her about your feelings about swinging, she should be able to stop her swinging activities to focus on building the relationship she has with you. If her priority is swinging, then you have some serious questions to ask of yourself and where you want to go.

Her issue is her age. She feels she only has a couple more years to do this. She is 59. She isn't attracted to many men or women over 50 at all. She looks 40-45. Her body is better than 90% of 30+ yo women. She's 5'11 145. So that's her drive. She feels time pressure like a 38yo might to have her first baby.

I don't feel like I have a choice. It's not a big enough deal to be a deal breaker for me. I'm not willing to walk away. I'd rather go down in flames than never get in the fight.

I'm going to give the separate room play more time. See how it goes.

PleasingHer · July 14, 2015

Cplnuswing brought up a good point about time. My wife and I just celebrated our twelfth wedding anniversary. More than enough time to build a rock solid relationship. There is a reason the median age of swingers is mid thirties. It's enough time to build a solid union and have jumped many of the turtles a relationship can have.

If your serious about this, give it time. Sounds like she wants to party while she can. I don't blame her. So it comes down to how much can you take in the couple of years left she wants to swing. Will you still respect and love her once she hangs up her swinging license. Only you know that.

JandKinBoise · July 14, 2015

My first impression at the initial post was this was not a swinging couple. It's not a couple where one is pure vanilla and one swings. Both parties have plenty of experience. As info was revealed, my opinion changed.

Seeing an SO having passionate sex is a very intense experience. In order to make it a positive and highly erotic experience for you, requires a strong sense of security in your relationship. You have to know in your soul that she is going home with you tonight, hugging you and sighing in relaxed satisfaction.

Feeling competition from other men is normal. If you only are happy when she is unhappy with her experience, you win, she loses. This situation requires you to be able to handle the fact that other guys are good lovers as well. Feeling competition is normal, acting on it, or even paying attention to it is a problem. Look at it like skiing. 2 good skiers can have a wonderful time together. If one makes it a competition, it turns to crap.

This will all workout as soon as you become more secure in this new relationship. All your feelings are based on insecurity.

my 2 cents. Good luck.

GoldCoCouple · July 14, 2015

I can see the conflict here: you met on a casual sex site and she figures that you want to just have casual sex. I don't think that YOU have let her know that you want a more serious relationship. She is now single and hot looking and wants to have some fun (why else would she be on a casual sex site?). YOU want her to change the rules and understandings but haven't let her know.

Here's your problem: You are not COMMUNICATING with each other and both seem to be working towards totally different goals. FYI: if Ms. Gold said that she wanted to stop doing this, I would stop...no ifs, ands or buts. This has been a GREAT experience for the both of us but I would NEVER TRY to make her do something she wasn't on board 100% with. One of our 'golden rules' is NEVER take one for the team (and you seem to be taking them ALL for the team). Your GF thinks that you are fine with this and probably doesn't understand (since you were both looking for NSA sex when you met) what your hesitation and/or difficulties are. She wants to be able to WATCH you have NSA sex with someone else (since you won't tell her about you having sex with these other women).

Solution: TALK TO HER. Either she will have an 'ah-ha' moment, stop putting the pressure on you and stop with the idea of swinging...or she will be surprised that you are not on board since you both just wanted sex (I'm guessing this one will be the one she picks). as others have stated, I too don't think you are wired for swinging. To be successful, your relationship needs love, trust and communication and I don't think you have...any of the three. You met on a sex site, she's looking for sex not love. You obviously are not communicating, and you both don't seem to be on the same page (same book for that matter) so there can be no trust. You are quickly coming to a cross roads but you need to find out her thoughts and opinions on this. TALK TO HER.

We wish you luck with this.

benawyl · July 22, 2015

I appreciate everybody's help. May I ask a few more questions please?

I've read a lot of posts here and other boards and want to know if I can cut out a niche for us? I am not opposed for her playing solo or if we go to a club and I don't see anybody I want to play with her playing with a single or somebody's husband. But it seems the reverse isn't true? In that husbands most likely won't let their wives play with me?

It seems that same room only folks might think I have too many issues because I don't want to do same room. If she liked both of them I'd be more than willing to let her just have a threesome with them while I wait out by the pool. No alone play with his wife expected. That's a fair compromise right?

It seems that if I'm not into MFM I'm screwed right? Even tho she puts me in an MFM with her in fantasy talk I'm not sure if I could ever do it. Even with another guy and his wife.

I don't have any voyeuristic tendencies at all.

My perception of clubs is probably off. I would think that at an on-premise club that if a woman wanted to play with a guy she could just go do it and vice versa. But it seems that is not the case. That most people still want a four way match. That doesn't really make sense to me. Seems it would be easier for people to do whatever. What's the general consensus here?

I see women talk about it's just sex not making love. Define making love. I've seen a guy talking about it's athletic sex not like the loving connection at home. I don't get this. I always have athletic hot sex at home with my long term partners. I don't do slow and sensual. I do hard and fast. (most girls say I hit the just aggressive enough spot) I'm just confused by these statements of swinging is fun sex (shouldn't at home be fun sex too?)

I'm sure I have a few I've forgotten as I've been thinking about this for a while. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Lionheart72 · July 22, 2015

I appreciate everybody's help. May I ask a few more questions please?

Folks here love to answer good, honest questions.

I've read a lot of posts here and other boards and want to know if I can cut out a niche for us? I am not opposed for her playing solo or if we go to a club and I don't see anybody I want to play with her playing with a single or somebody's husband. But it seems the reverse isn't true? In that husbands most likely won't let their wives play with me?

It really depends on the dynamic of the couple involved. I let me wife play with other guys. In fact, I really enjoy it.

It seems that same room only folks might think I have too many issues because I don't want to do same room. If she liked both of them I'd be more than willing to let her just have a threesome with them while I wait out by the pool. No alone play with his wife expected. That's a fair compromise right?

Be honest with yourself... you do have a lot of issues with this. I think people will pick up on that and be very gun-shy about you. The one thing any experienced swinger wants to avoid is drama and you are carrying a lot of potential for drama. I don't mean this in an unkind way. Quite the opposite, in fact. You need to be aware that people are going to pick up on your concerns and be hesitant, and wisely so.

It seems that if I'm not into MFM I'm screwed right? Even tho she puts me in an MFM with her in fantasy talk I'm not sure if I could ever do it. Even with another guy and his wife.

I don't have any voyeuristic tendencies at all.

I think where you're screwed, so to speak, is that you're not into swinging. You really don't seem to have the mindset for it. Which would fine... the vast majority of people don't... except that you keep trying to put yourself into it.

My perception of clubs is probably off. I would think that at an on-premise club that if a woman wanted to play with a guy she could just go do it and vice versa. But it seems that is not the case. That most people still want a four way match. That doesn't really make sense to me. Seems it would be easier for people to do whatever. What's the general consensus here?

It depends. It depends on the club and on the people involved. Different clubs tend to attract different kinds of people. In my life, I've been to three clubs and they have all been very different. Some clubs will have a situation like you describe, with couples engaging in separate room play. Others will only have full four way swaps. There is a lot of variety of swinging... so anyone who tells you "this is the true and only way" is probably wrong.

I see women talk about it's just sex not making love. Define making love. I've seen a guy talking about it's athletic sex not like the loving connection at home. I don't get this. I always have athletic hot sex at home with my long term partners. I don't do slow and sensual. I do hard and fast. (most girls say I hit the just aggressive enough spot) I'm just confused by these statements of swinging is fun sex (shouldn't at home be fun sex too?)

"Making love" involves emotion, passion and caring... it could be slow and sensual or hard and fast, it could involve gentle music and candle light or hard rock and hot wax.... what matters is the feeling behind it, that there is feeling behind it.

Just fucking for fun is... like a friendly game of soccer/baseball/insert your sport of choice... it's a vigorous physical activity between friends or like-minded strangers for the sake of enjoying the activity but without any feeling behind it beyond a shared pleasure in the game. The physical action has the same range of possibilities as "making love." The difference is in the emotion behind the act.

That you don't get the difference further supports my thesis that you are not cut out to be a swinger. Which, again, is... just... fine. Most people aren't. Even people who can have casual sex can't necessarily swingers. I really, honestly, think this just isn't right for you.

benawyl · July 22, 2015

Lionheart I'm committed to giving it a fair shot. I haven't caused any issues with anybody in my two months of swinging. Honestly even if I had an issue with something nobody would know. I wouldn't bring it up till we got home. There would be zero drama. I don't think it'd be right to do that to others.

Why is my not wanting to watch a big deal? Why should that bother other people? I just get nothing out of that if it's her or strangers. I'm a participant not a spectator. I've done open non mono deals before where I was emotionally invested. But they were typical non exclusive relationships. I can guarantee I won't be messing up someone else's time.

benawyl · July 22, 2015

Can folks elaborate on this being wary of me? We have our own solution to this but I'd like to get feedback.

Lionheart72 · July 22, 2015

Lionheart I'm committed to giving it a fair shot. I haven't caused any issues with anybody in my two months of swinging. Honestly even if I had an issue with something nobody would know. I wouldn't bring it up till we got home. There would be zero drama. I don't think it'd be right to do that to others.

Why is my not wanting to watch a big deal? Why should that bother other people? I just get nothing out of that if it's her or strangers. I'm a participant not a spectator. I've done open non mono deals before where I was emotionally invested. But they were typical non exclusive relationships. I can guarantee I won't be messing up someone else's time.

Can folks elaborate on this being wary of me? We have our own solution to this but I'd like to get feedback.

I'm afraid of heights. It's just one of those things. I'm not comfortable in high places. A couple of years ago, I went to the county fair with my family. My wife likes ferris wheels. For her sake, I decided I was going to go up on the ferris wheel with her and I did. I didn't complain. I didn't freak out or cause any issues. When we got off, my wife looked at him and said... in that gentle voice you use with frightened children and small animals... "you never have to do that again."

Not all communication is verbal. Successful swingers, I think, are rather good a picking up on non-verbal cues. It's how they gauge mutual attraction, how they measure their responses with new partners... it's a big part of the game. I can read you ambivalence off the words you write. I can only imagine it would be even clearer in person.

You can say that you're committed to giving it a fair shot... just like I gave the ferris wheel a fair shot... but it doesn't change the obvious underlying truth. It's not that you don't want to watch. It's the why behind your not wanting to watch that I think people are picking up on.

Again, I don't mean to be sound harsh. I'm just giving my honest opinion with every good intention.

intuition897 · July 23, 2015

I've had to skim a lot of the posts; you've gotten some good advice so far. If it were us hearing your situation as potential playmates, we'd be inclined to take a pass because of the potential for drama. We just want to have fun, and if someone is feeling guilty, ashamed, jealous, sad, etc., well...it's no longer fun.

I've had sex with four women in the year we've been together. Two she doesn't know about and two she does. When I'm away from her I feel no guilt knowing that she doesn't mind. It has zero impact on how I feel about my GF and zero impact on my level of sexual interest with my GF. Anytime she is around tho I feel guilt.

Your girlfriend might have an issue with being lied to about those two women you didn't tell her about. Just sayin'. Know what the difference is between cheating and swinging? The lie. That's what hurts, not the sex.

Anyway, you've hit on something in this last quote. If you say the sex that you have - the attraction that you feel towards other women - has no impact on your feelings toward your girlfriend, or your level of attraction to her, why then do you think the same isn't true for her? You have expressed frustration at having to "compete" with the rest of the dicks out there, making sure you come out in the lead every time. I'll let you in on a secret. You are NOT going to be the best at everything, sexually. There will always be a bigger dick, a more experienced tongue, bigger muscles, etc. If you're blond, you'll never be dark-haired. If you're short, you'll never be tall. The good news is, you will always be better at some things than they are. Like being yourself, for example. No one is better at being you than you. And that - not your magnificent skill as a lover - is why your girlfriend goes home with you. She has her pick of anyone in the world, and it is pleasant to be able to enjoy the world this way, but it is YOU she wants to share her joy with. That's what it's about: emotional intimacy.

With swinging, you're throwing away the idea that sex IS love. Sex is not love any more than the alphabet is the poem. You use the alphabet as a tool with which you create what you want to say. When I'm with Mr. intuition, I can create beautiful poetry, rich and passionate, with great emotional depth. With swing partners, my inspiration is more limited...kind of the poetic equivalent of "There Once Was A Man From Nantucket..." It's still a ton of fun, but like I said...I only have so much room in my heart, and the rest belongs to my husband.

If you wish to make this relationship work, you have a long road ahead of you and a lot to wrap your head around. You need to be willing to let your world-view change. Are you willing to do that? All of those things you describe are serious barriers and are pretty much the opposite of what you'd see in the lifestyle. We enjoy seeing our partners pleased, whether by us or someone else. We like the idea that they get the best of both worlds, and we feel really good that we are able to make that happen for them. We're so proud of our partners, we feel it's a crime to keep them to ourselves. "Oh my God your husband made me come, like, 8 TIMES IN A ROW!" "I know, right?! What did I tell you? Isn't he AMAZING?" We don't compete with one another, because that's silly. There is no "better"; there is only "different". The only thing other partners have to offer me is novelty. And that wears off quickly. Mr. intuition once said, "Well these other women HAVE to be prettier than you; that's about all they have to bring to the table. I don't have any history with them, no connection." I was okay with that. I will never have a lean, athletic runner's body with washboard abs; I will always have an hourglass figure. I am a brunette, and I will never be a (convincing) blonde. I am white, and will never be black. I probably will never figure out that trick that the wife of our first full-swap couple used to do to Mr. intuition that got him to salute over and over...and OVER again. All I can do is be me, and you know what? That's okay. I am desirable, too. I just can't be everything to him. I can, however, offer him the world as his playground without making him choose between me and them. He gets to have both. Which makes me a pretty awesome deal, don't you think? If he can find someone who loves him more unconditionally than I do, he should hold on to her with both hands.

SW_PA_Couple · July 23, 2015

. . . Why is my not wanting to watch a big deal? Why should that bother other people? I just get nothing out of that if it's her or strangers. I'm a participant not a spectator.

Like you, I am a participant, not a spectator. I have no interest in watching my wife fuck another man. I am interested in watching me fuck that man's significant-other.

In short -- you are not alone.

benawyl · July 23, 2015

I've had to skim a lot of the posts; you've gotten some good advice so far. If it were us hearing your situation as potential playmates, we'd be inclined to take a pass because of the potential for drama. We just want to have fun, and if someone is feeling guilty, ashamed, jealous, sad, etc., well...it's no longer fun.

Your girlfriend might have an issue with being lied to about those two women you didn't tell her about. Just sayin'. Know what the difference is between cheating and swinging? The lie. That's what hurts, not the sex.

Anyway, you've hit on something in this last quote. If you say the sex that you have - the attraction that you feel towards other women - has no impact on your feelings toward your girlfriend, or your level of attraction to her, why then do you think the same isn't true for her? You have expressed frustration at having to "compete" with the rest of the dicks out there, making sure you come out in the lead every time. I'll let you in on a secret. You are NOT going to be the best at everything, sexually. There will always be a bigger dick, a more experienced tongue, bigger muscles, etc. If you're blond, you'll never be dark-haired. If you're short, you'll never be tall. The good news is, you will always be better at some things than they are. Like being yourself, for example. No one is better at being you than you. And that - not your magnificent skill as a lover - is why your girlfriend goes home with you. She has her pick of anyone in the world, and it is pleasant to be able to enjoy the world this way, but it is YOU she wants to share her joy with. That's what it's about: emotional intimacy.

With swinging, you're throwing away the idea that sex IS love. Sex is not love any more than the alphabet is the poem. You use the alphabet as a tool with which you create what you want to say. When I'm with Mr. intuition, I can create beautiful poetry, rich and passionate, with great emotional depth. With swing partners, my inspiration is more limited...kind of the poetic equivalent of "There Once Was A Man From Nantucket..." It's still a ton of fun, but like I said...I only have so much room in my heart, and the rest belongs to my husband.

If you wish to make this relationship work, you have a long road ahead of you and a lot to wrap your head around. You need to be willing to let your world-view change. Are you willing to do that? All of those things you describe are serious barriers and are pretty much the opposite of what you'd see in the lifestyle. We enjoy seeing our partners pleased, whether by us or someone else. We like the idea that they get the best of both worlds, and we feel really good that we are able to make that happen for them. We're so proud of our partners, we feel it's a crime to keep them to ourselves. "Oh my God your husband made me come, like, 8 TIMES IN A ROW!" "I know, right?! What did I tell you? Isn't he AMAZING?" We don't compete with one another, because that's silly. There is no "better"; there is only "different". The only thing other partners have to offer me is novelty. And that wears off quickly. Mr. intuition once said, "Well these other women HAVE to be prettier than you; that's about all they have to bring to the table. I don't have any history with them, no connection." I was okay with that. I will never have a lean, athletic runner's body with washboard abs; I will always have an hourglass figure. I am a brunette, and I will never be a (convincing) blonde. I am white, and will never be black. I probably will never figure out that trick that the wife of our first full-swap couple used to do to Mr. intuition that got him to salute over and over...and OVER again. All I can do is be me, and you know what? That's okay. I am desirable, too. I just can't be everything to him. I can, however, offer him the world as his playground without making him choose between me and them. He gets to have both. Which makes me a pretty awesome deal, don't you think? If he can find someone who loves him more unconditionally than I do, he should hold on to her with both hands.

Ok the girls she doesn't know all about. We've had a don't ask don't tell open relationship since day 1 so I'm not breaking any rules there. She knows something about all of them but not details and exactly when it may have happened. She likes to live vicariously thru my adventures.

So far we haven't run into any real issues. As far as playing with others outside of the one couple we never really got that far with they have all wanted to swap with us. My GF has been the one saying no so far. She hasn't found a male half of a couple that was good enough for her. She got pretty frustrated with the last date we had saying," Why can't these people be like us?" She is having a hard time understanding why these good looking women don't have an equally good looking man. But what bothered me about that tirade was her disappointment that we didn't get to play. She said I really wanted to play tonight.

I'm thinking what the fuck am I? It was like I was a disappointing consolation prize.

Now I get my fears or issues may be irrational. If I look at it logically she picked and approached me on a sex site. She gets tons of messages every day. There was no reason for her to keep me around. She didn't catch feelings for me for a while. She flirts with me daily. Called me three times for phone sex today instead of going out to play. She teases me regularly by waling thru the living room nude or asking does this robe make me look fat while opening it to her nude body. She initiates more than I do.

These are all signs of a highly attracted woman. I like this. I like that we have sex all the time and that she's into it WITH ME. I don't want that to change. I don't want her getting turned on by somebody else then using me for sex. I want her getting turned on by me then using me for sex. Do you understand the difference?

Yes I want her to love me. But for me love isn't enough. I want her to lust after me. I want the total package. I deserve that.

I don't want this to mess that up. Does that make sense?

Why do I think that I can compartmentalize better than her? I don't know. I just know that I definitely can. I think in a broad general term men are better at that than women. She is unique in that she was a unicorn before I met her and had MFM FMF DP adventures before I knew her.

Yes I agree not everybody can be the best at everything. I'm not sure out of all the women I've been with if I really have a favorite. I think I have a group of girls that stand out and they each had something they did very well or others that did lots of things pretty well but nothing super excellent.

Am I making any sense in my rambling?

By the way there was a point in time years ago that I was anti toy now I'm all about toys. So maybe the same thing happens with swinging?

tribbles · July 23, 2015

Can folks elaborate on this being wary of me? We have our own solution to this but I'd like to get feedback.

I think you will have to try it awhile to find out how wary people are of you irl. Might be less than many think and might be they are right on.

Just go play separate and see where it goes. It's a journey. Enjoy the ride as much as you can.

sunbuckus · July 23, 2015

benawyl, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that all of the advice you are receiving is the collective concern we all have for you and the relationship. We have seen many spouses who come to the site in your situation or similar who do their best to try out swinging for their partner but aren't in a positive frame of mind for swinging. If the couple isn't able to listen to each other's concerns or fears from the get-go, it will only get worse if they continue--we would call this an exposure of a crack within the relationship that grows and grows until it breaks the relationship.

Swinging is something your girlfriend wants but if she values the relationship she has with you, she needs to learn to compromise. If it's something she that is crucial to her lifestyle and isn't willing to compromise then she needs to realize that you two aren't compatible...and so do you. If swinging causes you this much inner turmoil now, it won't get better unless a lot of things change between how you and your girlfriend communicate and behave in the relationship.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that hopes the best for you and your girlfriend but from where we sit (and the limited information we have) the current situation you two are in isn't looking very well.

benawyl · July 23, 2015

@Sunbuckus like I said stopping now isn't an option for me. So I have to push forward. I've been surprised at how much I've been completely comfortable with. I would've never let a woman of mine go topless anywhere and I'm completely cool with it. Not one twinge of issue or doubt. I had sex with her in front of other people and other than not having an orgasm I had zero issues and she had one of the biggest orgasms of her life. So that went well.

Today I took a new step in asking her thoughts on a girl on SLS and if she'd mind if I contacted her. So that's my first time approaching a woman in front of her. So I'm moving along ok for two months I think?

I have a new question. The girl I played with has been a little flirty the last couple of days (she's excited about seeing me next month) I've flirted back a bit but how much is acceptable? I only talk to her on SLS so nothing can be hidden but I don't want to piss off her husband. Should I just talk to her the same as any other woman I've slept with or should I keep holding back to protect her husband? What's normal?

intuition897 · July 23, 2015

Why do I think that I can compartmentalize better than her? I don't know. I just know that I definitely can. I think in a broad general term men are better at that than women. She is unique in that she was a unicorn before I met her and had MFM FMF DP adventures before I knew her.

This is one of the cool things about swinging; we get to see what a level playing field looks like. Women get to finally be themselves and let their predatory nature loose without getting slut-shamed for it. It finally becomes recognized that our libidos are easily as strong as men's. And we have to be big girls and learn to be assertive and speak up about what we are and are not okay with. Likewise, men finally get to be real people, with feelings that can be hurt. They have to admit that, allow themselves to be vulnerable and learn to come to terms with not always being in control of the situation. One ironic thing I have found is that men usually get the couple into swinging, but once she realizes how liberating it is, the woman is the one who keeps them swinging. And sometimes the men are decidedly uncomfortable with this, having created a monster.

I don't know if it's really a gender thing, the ability to compartmentalize. I'm scary good at it. Always have been. I think it's more a personality type than anything.

These are all signs of a highly attracted woman. I like this. I like that we have sex all the time and that she's into it WITH ME. I don't want that to change. I don't want her getting turned on by somebody else then using me for sex. I want her getting turned on by me then using me for sex. Do you understand the difference?

Yes, I understand. But from my perspective, what you're describing is self-focused. Your reward is the ego boost of the fantasy that she's so into you that she isn't attracted to anyone else anymore. What I described is the other-focused reward of seeing your partner completely fulfilled. I just want Mr. intuition to be excited, aroused, fulfilled...happy. My job is to make that happen for him however I can. I'm okay with those feelings not originating from me, as long as he gets to feel them.

intuition897 · July 23, 2015

I have a new question. The girl I played with has been a little flirty the last couple of days (she's excited about seeing me next month) I've flirted back a bit but how much is acceptable? I only talk to her on SLS so nothing can be hidden but I don't want to piss off her husband. Should I just talk to her the same as any other woman I've slept with or should I keep holding back to protect her husband? What's normal?

You don't need to protect her husband. He gets to pull the plug whenever he gets uncomfortable with whatever it is you're doing. And if you're actually disrespectful to him, he won't need to say a word, because his wife/GF will abruptly get up off your penis and leave you swinging in the breeze. So don't even worry about it. I would just warn against being competitive with him, because you can't compete with a woman's spouse. It's apples to oranges. Any attempt at competition, trying to make yourself out to be a better lay than he is, implying that you're taking care of his wife because he can't do it himself, etc., will get you shut down faster than you can blink.

benawyl · July 23, 2015

You don't need to protect her husband. He gets to pull the plug whenever he gets uncomfortable with whatever it is you're doing. And if you're actually disrespectful to him, he won't need to say a word, because his wife/GF will abruptly get up off your penis and leave you swinging in the breeze. So don't even worry about it. I would just warn against being competitive with him, because you can't compete with a woman's spouse. It's apples to oranges. Any attempt at competition, trying to make yourself out to be a better lay than he is, implying that you're taking care of his wife because he can't do it himself, etc., will get you shut down faster than you can blink.

Yeah I would never ever say anything negative about somebody's husband. That's the last thing on my mind. I really want to be careful of other people's relationship.

MacNfries · July 27, 2015

One of the main purposes of dating a person, as I see it, is to consider that person for a long term relationship. If that is the purpose of dating your lady, now, it appears a lot of good advice has already been given regarding compatibility. The 2 of you are simply on 2 different plains, regarding sex. You'll either tolerate it and remain miserable, or you'll realize that this lady simply isn't compatible to your likes & interests. If there's a big age difference between the two of you, that helps explain some of it. Also, you've been married before; how much is this relationship similar to the failed marriage relationship?

My wife and I did our swinging in college, so it made it easy to practice after we married. However, we found couple swaps, after college life, were often not as enjoyable as 3-somes, so our last dozen or so swings have been with individuals, mostly guys. My intention, in a MMF, has always been to bring her to a higher level of sexual enjoyment than I can do by myself. She likes 2 guys at once, and I enjoy arranging them when convenient. But, it's not our mainstream sex diet, by far. Sharing a mate isn't for everyone ... in fact, it isn't for most couples.

Possibly it would help if the 2 of you could form some close relationships with another couple; it appears you prefer to have common interests (other than just sex) with those you have sex with, and that's kewl.

benawyl · July 27, 2015

They do it to me all the time. I think they think it makes the thread topic clearer for other folks. It's one of the few bad things about Swingersboard, IMO.

It's putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I'm trying to make this happen for her. I want to make this happen it's just not easy.

I've never had a shred of fantasy about my woman fucking another guy. At no point in my life. In fact there was a time when I was 21 and playing with what I now figure was a 35yo hotwife. We were having sex and she asked me if I wanted to watch her fuck my friends? I stopped in mid stroke and just quizzically said no, why would I want that? I know lots of guys in this lifestyle and the hotwife/cuck world get turned on by it.

We had a little hiccup yesterday and my moods down a bit today. Of course she most likely is clueless about it.

benawyl · July 27, 2015

One of the main purposes of dating a person, as I see it, is to consider that person for a long term relationship. If that is the purpose of dating your lady, now, it appears a lot of good advice has already been given regarding compatibility. The 2 of you are simply on 2 different plains, regarding sex. You'll either tolerate it and remain miserable, or you'll realize that this lady simply isn't compatible to your likes & interests. If there's a big age difference between the two of you, that helps explain some of it. Also, you've been married before; how much is this relationship similar to the failed marriage relationship?

My wife and I did our swinging in college, so it made it easy to practice after we married. However, we found couple swaps, after college life, were often not as enjoyable as 3-somes, so our last dozen or so swings have been with individuals, mostly guys. My intention, in a MMF, has always been to bring her to a higher level of sexual enjoyment than I can do by myself. She likes 2 guys at once, and I enjoy arranging them when convenient. But, it's not our mainstream sex diet, by far. Sharing a mate isn't for everyone ... in fact, it isn't for most couples.

Possibly it would help if the 2 of you could form some close relationships with another couple; it appears you prefer to have common interests (other than just sex) with those you have sex with, and that's kewl.

Why do you think the age difference has anything to do with it?

I don't really want to form close relationships with others. The ones I do that with I most likely wouldn't be able to have sex with their wife. I've made a couple of friends in the LS but I highly doubt I'll ever make a move on their partners.

I would prefer one and done or two or three times a year at most with repeat people. No real ongoing communication with them.

This relationship and my marriage are completely different. Sexually my ex was low partner count ( one of the few low partner count women of my life. I usually attract high partner count women) I had and still have zero doubt that she is and was over the top attracted to me. But my ex was highly volatile. Huge tempo and was insanely jealous (not a bad thing imo) and she was fiercely loyal.

My new gf is wonderful in many ways. She's attractive (about middle of my range looks wise but she has a sexy quality. Ex model) she has zero jealousy (makes me feel less valued). I mean she won't let people drive her car but other girls are encouraged to fuck me? Can you see how one could feel less important than a car?

We are sexually compatible in many ways. I enjoy spending time with her. She is zero stress to be around (outside of swinging) I'm working on that but I really feel like we are on two different pages. Especially her whole just let go and let things happen carefree damn the torpedoes sorta attitude. Almost hippie like I guess (go with the flow)

I'm still trying to figure out what's good about it. What am I going to get out of it? The friendships and acquaintances are nice but don't seem like much reward for the risks and negatives to us involved.

She'll be happy that's a plus.

So I'm just going to bite the bullet and see this thru. I don't always like going to work but I do it. I didn't like getting up at 5 a.m. for winter conditioning in college but I did it. I know how to push thru stuff when I have to.

Bob250 · July 27, 2015

A little late in the game, but swinging sex is RECREATIONAL sex, with little or no emotional involvement. That's the way it is supposed to be, and almost all real swingers try very hard to keep it that way.

If you are on this site for any length of time, you will find all sorts of references to "non-threatening", "going at the pace of the slowest person", etc. If swinging was about emotion, then it would cease to exist, because everyone would be jealous, possessive, judgmental and anxious. Sound like fun to you? Swinging is about extramarital sex without anxiety or guilt. You have tons of both, so you shouldn't swing until you have dealt with these issues........or not.

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