Fantasies becoming reality

[Argie71 19]

Hello from Canada.

 

My wife and I have known each other for 20 years and have been married for 15. Our sex life has only gotten better since the first time. I LOVE her so much, I consider myself the luckiest guy on earth because she chose to be my wife. Like many people, we have fantasies that arouse us during intercourse. One of those, was having another man in bed to DP her. We have “done” it many times using sex toys and it was all super great. Or so I thought.

 

About a week ago, my wife came to me and said that she wanted to have a MFM experience.

 

Now, I’ve always been a person that tries to let reason prevail over feelings and always strived to be as open minded and understanding as possible. However, when my wife expressed her desires I went into shut down mode.

 

As I mentioned, I love her very much and her happiness and wellbeing is my main priority. Because of this, I told her that if that is what she wanted we will try it (the rational part of my brain here).

 

The problem that I’m having (and hope you people can help me with) is that my irrational half can not accept that she wants to bring somebody else to our bed. It screams: she is MINE, she is my LOVE, she BELONGS to me and therefore the thought of having someone else touch her or fuck her makes me extremely angry.

 

This situation has also brought up a lot of feelings of insecurity that I did not know I had: What if she likes the other guy better, and then the only form of sex that we will ever have will be with someone else? Will she ever enjoy having sex with me alone again or will she do it out of kindness, always secretly comparing me with the other guy? What if I say no to her desire to do this MFM and she resents it, and this frustration hurts our relationship?; Will she still love me after realizing that, perhaps, the sex life we have had so far might not have been so good for her after all?

 

As I’m writing this, I realize how “teenager” all this sounds, but I can not control these feelings.

 

What really pisses me off the most is that, since our conversation I have been acting like an asshole with her. I’m silent, grumpy and irritable. Not only that, I have also been irked when she looks at other men (something that has never bothered me before) thinking “is that what you really want, taller than me? more athletic? better looking? younger”.

 

I’m a wreck, I’m not like this small, resentful, egotistic person. I hate myself for what I’m feeling and even more for not being able to have my rational half take over the irrational part of my brain.

 

But most of all for not being able to give the person that means the most on this world to me something that she wants/need.

 

I apologize beforehand for the length of this rant and for possible grammar/spelling errors. As you might surmise from my nickname, English is not my first language.

 

Thank you in advance for the patience and feedback.

 

Cheers

[CB&DD 217]

You need to cover everything you just wrote down here that are concerns of yours with your wife. Work through all of those before you even consider going through with a MFM or any LS type stuff first. Sounds like you have a good relationship and would hate for you to go too fast and mess that up. You'll hear this a lot but the importance of communication between you two is super important to successful ventures into swinging. I'm sure some others will come along with more experience that may be more in tune with what you're looking for specifically. Good luck and keep us updated.

[JAPrufrock 588]

Hello and welcome to the board! My husband and I haven't started swinging yet, but I want you to know that those "teenager" feelings are all 100% normal. If you browse the board long enough, you will come across a ton of posts that mention those feelings as well. The fact is that not everyone was made to swing. Some people just aren't wired for it, and that's ok.

 

The first thing you need to do is talk to your wife. Tell her everything you just posted on this board. If the words won't come out, then show her your post. It's obvious you love her, and that her happiness means the world to you, but going through with swinging when one partner is not up for it is a fast track to marital problems. As everyone here will tell you, communication is 100% the key. One of the benefits of starting our swinging journey has been the amazing open communication Mr. Prufrock and I now have. I thought we could tell each other everything before... now I know that wasn't the case. I opened my heart and soul to him, my innermost darkest secrets, he knows everything now. The connection we now have is stronger than it ever was before, and it was pretty strong before.

 

If you don't speak up and say something, it will eat away at you and your marriage. Acting like an asshole is a predictable response (not necessarily an OK one), you're upset, she didn't mean to hurt you, but she did. Now you need to tell her that. Don't get defensive and point fingers, just be honest about your feelings. Be honest that the thought of sharing her scares you, and that you don't think you're ready to do that. I doubt she will resent you if she sees where you're coming from. Once that's out in the air, then you both need to talk. Talk and talk and talk about anything and everything. Listen to what she has to say about why she wants to bring another man into your bedroom. Then ask her how she would feel if you brought another woman into the bedroom.

 

Then if you both think that swinging is maybe something you both can be on board with, come back here and research, research, research! Ask as many questions as you need to. We are all here to help, and I have never talked to nicer, more welcoming people then the ones on this board.

 

When Mr. Prufrock and I first started talking about swinging, we were only interested in MFM. I couldn't stand the thought of him with another woman, but the longer we talked, the more open our communication became, the more comfortable I became with the idea. I'm not going to say that I miraculously overcame my feelings of jealousy and possessiveness overnight, but I'm working through them, figuring out why I feel them, and slowly they are starting to fade. I can now at least imagine my husband with another woman without those feelings overwhelming me. It is actually starting to be a turn-on. Will we ever get to a full-swap situation? Maybe with the right couple, but for now we're taking it slow, talking it through, and enjoying the ride.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

Because you identify as a rational person, I feel good about recommending that you read the popular book named Amazon.com: Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What it Means for Modern Relationships (9781491512401): Christopher Ryan, Cacilda Jetha, Allyson Johnson, Jonathan Davis: Books. It is not a self help book. But it does explain the reasons that most of us feel a need for multiple partners and a little bit about the particular kind of jealousy that men who grow up in modern cultures feel.

[cplnuswing 4,712]

Your relationship has a lot of things going for it - it has stood the test of time, and the communication is good. As others mentioned though, when it comes to swinging, the communication has to be great. Swinging adds another aspect to a relationship, and it's a powerful thing, for good or bad. Since swingers are playing with that fire, then to make sure they make it work for them and not against them, the communication has to be great. So, take this opportunity to build upon that already good communication you have and try to make it great. Talking about swinging doesn't mean you have to swing, far from it. But those how can talk about it with their spouse in an open and honest way often finds that pays many dividends to the relationship even if the eventual final decision is it is just not something for them.

 

Another thing too is the time factor. This is all very new since she just brought it up. It's big idea, hard to wrap your mind around, and one that flies against everything you probably thought or have been told since you were very young. Think on it a bit together, let is soak in, do some research and discuss that together...basically, make it something you do together with two minds as one and not two minds suspiciously looking across a divide at each other wondering what the other's motivations really are. The unknown is scary, made sure that you both know what is going through each other's mind, and then it's not an unknown any more, so it's less scary. It's difficult to make a sound decision out of fear. Work on removing that fear and you can get to a place where you two can make the decision that is best for both of you. Again, the decision may be that you try swinging, or it may be that you don't; either way though, it will be a decision that you can feel confident in and won't carry with it any unexpected side effects like a snap decision made in anger and fear might have.

 

I always like to say when it comes to swinging, slow and steady wins the race. Nothing says you have to jump right to a MFM threesome. If you have any good clubs or swingers groups near you, just pay them a visit. Don't go to play, just go to watch and learn and pick up on the vibe. My guess is it will be a little bit different than what you envision, and I think it will do a lot of calm your fears. When you see in person how dedicated swingers are to their mates, you will begin to pick up on what swinging is really about.

 

Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have, this is a friendly helpful community and we all were right where you are at now at one time too - trying to decide how we should feel and what we should do.

[Argie71 19]

Thank you very much to all of you for the prompt responses.

I will right away have her read my post and try to start a positive conversation. I'm still feeling angry though, but now I don't know whether it is with her or myself....

[Argie71 19]

I'm angry at her because I feel that she stopped caring about me and wants to replace me.

A totally irrational feeling, but today it seems that my analytical brain went on vacations.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,023]

You will need time to process this, Argie71. Ask her to allow you time

[JAPrufrock 588]

I agree with SW_PA_Couple. Don't go into a conversation angry, it won't be productive and could hurt things. Anger makes both of you defensive, it shuts down communication. Take time to process, and try to let go of your anger. It does no one any good.

 

And obviously I'm not her, but I'm pretty sure she isn't interested in replacing you. She cares enough about you to tell you what her innermost desires and secrets are. It's hard to tell someone you love that you want fantasy to be reality; it's a total jump, putting yourself out there. Give her the benefit of the doubt, if she didn't care, she'd have just left you or gone behind your back and found someone to cheat with. For me at least, the MFM idea is only hot if my husband is the other male. I'm not interested at all in playing without him there. She may be like that too (and I'd say that's likely since you have had the DP fantasy), but you won't know unless you talk to her, and she won't want to open up if anger is there.

[intuition897 2,179]

First of all, welcome to the board, fellow Canadian!

 

*EDIT: Uh...sorry for the ridiculously long post, btw...

 

I'm angry at her because I feel that she stopped caring about me and wants to replace me.

 

Awwww, Argie71, I just want to give you a hug now! You two have been together 20 years (congratulations by the way); she's not looking to replace you. Believe me. Or better yet, ask her, and when she echoes the same sentiment, believe her! You're right, these feelings are irrational, and that's probably embarrassing for someone who identifies (like so many of us) as a rational person. Get used to it. Your heart doesn't ask permission to feel the way it does...it just does.

 

What you are experiencing is actually a beautiful thing if you are willing to embrace it. It is the painful exposure of your vulnerability, and if you want to know what women want, it is a partner who is strong enough to allow himself to be vulnerable with her. This is the part where you tell her "This just peeled the skin off my chest, and here is my heart raw and open. You have a knife in your hand. You can heal me or kill me. Please don't abuse my trust."

 

As I mentioned, I love her very much and her happiness and wellbeing is my main priority. Because of this, I told her that if that is what she wanted we will try it (the rational part of my brain here).

 

I commend you on your courage and desire to make your wife happy, but please be careful that you do not neglect your own emotional needs. "No" doesn't have to mean no forever; it just means no for now, until you are able to process things and assimilate these new ideas and emotions. In the meantime, you just need to ask your wife for time and space to feel fully comfortable with things. Baby steps. Start out by coming to terms with your wife being attracted to other men, a huge step in itself.

 

The problem that I’m having (and hope you people can help me with) is that my irrational half can not accept that she wants to bring somebody else to our bed. It screams: she is MINE, she is my LOVE, she BELONGS to me and therefore the thought of having someone else touch her or fuck her makes me extremely angry.

Is she yours? Is she really? This is probably the thing that demarcates the line between swinger and vanilla: ownership. Territory. The thing is, I don't own Mr. intuition. I don't even want to own him. I don't want a domesticated pet on a leash. I want him to be the feral animal he was when I met him. I want him untamed, unchanged, free to come and go as he pleases...and I want him to be here because - despite all the places he could be, and all the women he could have - he chooses me. The less domesticated he is, the more that choice means to me. Does this make any sense?

 

I don't feel jealous or angry with him for being attracted to other women, because I realize a few things about that:

1) His attraction to other women does not make me less attractive...to him, or to other men.

2) His attraction does not make him love or respect me any less. I know this because I, too, am attracted to others, and my feelings for him do not change at all.

3) He means no harm or disrespect by his attraction to others. Humans are just fancy, upright, bipedal animals. Our bodies are designed to have physical attraction to potential mates with suitable genetic matches. We call it chemistry, or having a "type". It is normal, natural and healthy. We tell ourselves that if we love someone enough, the attraction to others goes away. That is bullshit. We can brainwash ourselves into behaving that way, but it requires a great deal of effort, and you're constantly working uphill. And if you fuck up and slip, you find yourself all wound up under that boulder you've been pushing up the hill, wishing and wanting another person's body more than you need to...all because you've made it a forbidden taboo. This is why cheating is such a problem in our society; we're working against human nature instead of lovingly accommodating something that is perfectly natural, and might I add, involuntary.

 

This situation has also brought up a lot of feelings of insecurity that I did not know I had: What if she likes the other guy better, and then the only form of sex that we will ever have will be with someone else? Will she ever enjoy having sex with me alone again or will she do it out of kindness, always secretly comparing me with the other guy? What if I say no to her desire to do this MFM and she resents it, and this frustration hurts our relationship?; Will she still love me after realizing that, perhaps, the sex life we have had so far might not have been so good for her after all?

 

Still wanting to hug you. When your wife reads this, she will want to hug you, too. Again, this is a beautiful thing. Sometimes you don't get the answers you want to hear; the truth is often painful, and so you should be prepared to learn some things about yourself and one another that might make you really uncomfortable. But...that's the deal. Don't go down this road unless you're ready for the truth, whatever that may be. The good news is, 99 times out of 100, you get to watch your fears and insecurities evaporate like smoke when your spouse tells you what's really going on in his or her head/heart. Her responses may vary somewhat, but if my husband expressed these concerns to me, I would answer them like this:

 

What if she likes the other guy better, and then the only form of sex that we will ever have will be with someone else? Not going to happen. The other guy might be hung like a horse and give me a mind-blowing orgasm...but so what? He's not you. No one else is you, and you are "home". Nothing else is worth losing this bond with you, and right now, I love you so much for giving me the freedom to be myself, it's all I can think of. Not "Oh my God this guy is so much better than my husband.", but "Oh my God, I am the fucking luckiest woman in the goddamned WORLD! I get to fuck what's-his-name here AND I get to keep the most amazing man on the fucking planet as my husband!! He ROCKS!"

Will she ever enjoy having sex with me alone again or will she do it out of kindness, always secretly comparing me with the other guy? What I'd be thinking after a MFM: I wonder if he thinks any less of me now, now that he's seen me turned on by someone else? Does he hate me? Does he think I'm a whore? If he did, then I am ashamed, and so sorry for hurting him, even though I didn't mean to. Honestly, "reclamation" sex is some of the hottest, most amazing sex we've had. Our friends are barely out of the driveway and we're tearing each other's clothes off. Effects can last a week or two.

What if I say no to her desire to do this MFM and she resents it, and this frustration hurts our relationship?; Okay, this one is where your mileage may vary. You need to talk this out before you try anything. Explain that you don't want anything to damage your relationship, so can she gauge how badly she wants this?

Will she still love me after realizing that, perhaps, the sex life we have had so far might not have been so good for her after all? Again, not going to happen. Don't mistake familiarity with "bad". When she's done with all the excitement and novelty of exploring a new body, she's going to come "home" to you. Would you rather sleep in a hotel for the rest of your life? Or can you appreciate how good it feels to sleep in your own bed after being away?

 

As I’m writing this, I realize how “teenager” all this sounds, but I can not control these feelings.

Feelings aren't just for teenagers. Not a big deal, everybody has them. If you want to get involved in swinging, you're going to have them, and you need to address them...which is exactly what you're doing. So well done.

 

What really pisses me off the most is that, since our conversation I have been acting like an asshole with her. I’m silent, grumpy and irritable. Not only that, I have also been irked when she looks at other men (something that has never bothered me before) thinking “is that what you really want, taller than me? more athletic? better looking? younger”.

I went through this, too. When I was very young and pregnant, and our marriage was quite new, I noticed my husband's stash of porn and I FREAKED OUT. Is this what he wanted??? How the fuck was I supposed to compete with these airbrushed hairless, tanned, fat-free twats with six-pack abs, perfect tits and asses, and legs that went on for days? His answer was that I didn't need to compete with them, because they can't even start to compete with me. Okay, so they have perfect bodies and faces and hair and whatnot, but they had to be physically beautiful because it was the only thing they had going for them. He had no interest in them otherwise. I'm his WIFE, his angel, his everything. How can they compete with me?

 

I’m a wreck, I’m not like this small, resentful, egotistic person. I hate myself for what I’m feeling and even more for not being able to have my rational half take over the irrational part of my brain.

 

But most of all for not being able to give the person that means the most on this world to me something that she wants/need.

 

I apologize beforehand for the length of this rant and for possible grammar/spelling errors. As you might surmise from my nickname, English is not my first language.

 

Thank you in advance for the patience and feedback.

 

Cheers

 

Argie71, please don't be too hard on yourself. You obviously love her very much, and want only for her happiness. Just remember you don't need to set yourself on fire to keep another person warm. I hope that when your wife reads this, she'll be as touched by it as I was. I hope it prompts many deep, meaningful conversations...punctuated with a lot of really amazing lovemaking. You're about to discover how much she loves you.

[Wondering2 20]

Wow Intuition. That was an amazing post and fabulous advice. Argie I would add only one thing to all the has already been said. Take baby steps. Start with small things so that you can ease your mind into it. If you can become comfortable with her desire for other men, at increasing levels, then hopefully you can develop compersion. In our beginning my wife's stomach turned at the thought of me paying attention to another. But I was thrilled seeing her feel like a queen when some gorgeous man paid her attention. Eventually, with much of what Intuition suggests, she also developed compersion. Now when and if we share each other it is a thrill and enormous turn-on for both of us. Imagine asking her to interact with another man, for your benefit. I have. Compersion is a wonderful thing.

[Argie71 19]

JAPrufrock,

Thanks a lot.

Your words mean a lot.

A big hug to you.

[JAPrufrock 588]

Aww, you're welcome! I'm happy to help! *Hugs back*

 

Intuition897's advice is perfect, and from someone who actually has experience with swinging. I hope that one day I'll be that in tune

 

Again, ask any questions you have, and keep us updated! We're rooting for you, regardless if you decide to be okay with swinging or not.