Acceptance of bisexuality in the swinging lifestyle

[JandKinBoise 859]

I have been living in this society in the United States for 50 years. In the beginning sex between men was not spoken of. Later, it was spoken of with hate, disgust and violence. Later still, it was accepted with a roll of the eyes. Remember the sitcom 'Will and Grace'?

 

Today, there is some acceptance of bisexuality in the LS. More guys are admitting that they would be open to at least the possibility of touching a guy. After all, it's just sex.

 

There is still a big gap in the swinging lifestyle and the bisexual lifestyle. There is a good reason for this. The bisexual 'community' (if there is such a thing), compared to the swinging community are completely different. The swinging LS, although based on sex, runs much deeper. There is community, clubs, parties, friends, and oh yes, sex. In the bisexual world, there is confusion about where we fit. There is intense greed about sex, wanting it all and wanting it now. There is shame and self hate for being a square peg in a world of round holes. I understand this. The range of bisexuality is confusing even to us. If you want to see confusion, visit a bisexual site. There the fully bi men can be hateful to partially bi men and so on. Also, the range of conversation is very narrow: sex, VERY graphic sex

 

There has always been hate spewed by straight and gay men because bisexuality fails to fit into a nice box. We want to think that everyone sees the world like we do and bisexuality throws a wrench into that feeling. For our part, bisexuality is not all fun and prancing though daisy fields. I know of no bisexual men that are not on antidepressants except me and I am crippled by depression and will eventually be hauled to a shrink by J to unfuck me.

 

I would appreciate a discussion on this topic. I'm mostly interested in guys opinions since the woman are usually much more open minded on the subject but please don't hesitate to voice an opinion. When guys are chatting at say a club or M&G and the subject of bisexuality comes up, what are the opinions? Is everyone just lip serving the PC world or are there actual opinions being voiced? How do YOU feel about seeing men having sex with men?

 

If we were to attend a swing event, I would show up as a fully straight guy and no one would be the wiser. Living a straight life has exposed me to what I feel is the actual opinion of the general public which is pretty negative towards non-straight men. Even if the rules accepted m-m sex, I would not participate. I honestly feel that man to man sex is not a public event, even I don't want to see it, it's like 2 machines going at it.

 

Am I wrong? Is m-m sex just hunky dory and I'm just in a conservative cave?

[MrDiscover 802]

As a man, MM-sex is okay. It is not my preference, but I have no problems seeing it. I always found it strange there is almost no MM-sex in clubs (apart from a few lgbt nights). And now we are looking for possible single male, all emails go to extremes to explain MM is not their thing. Unasked.

 

From time to time I read how open and liberal the LS is. I only have to think about gay and male bisexuals to realize it is not.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

From time to time I read how open and liberal the LS is. I only have to think about gay and male bisexuals to realize it is not.

 

One of our long time regular members, VegasLee, has said for years that swingers aren't open minded, they are different minded.

 

In some of the ancient threads around here, you'll find some very, very negative responses to any bi male activity, and they were in the majority. That really isn't the case around here anymore. I suppose the same slow changes will happen in the physical swinging world as well.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I would agree that in my time on this site, I have seen the environment slowly change toward bi males. We aren't frequent enough club visitors to know whether that same gradual change has moved from one swinging website into the clubs, but I would suspect it has to some degree. About the same time we started seeing the shift here is when you started seeing a few more profiles where the guy openly identified as bi.

 

Your comments about the differences in the swinging community and the bi male community were very enlightening, I honestly had never thought about that before. I think that is very perceptive and explains much. At it's heart, swinging is about connection. Two couples connecting both as couples and as individuals. Even those you may not feel the sexual connection with, you feel the swinger connection with. You can just pick up on it, there is kindred spirit sort of thing there. With female-female play that connection is still there, even though we are both straight, we can still see it. What you are saying though is in your experience, with bi males, it's different, the connection between them isn't the same, and so I think that is what others pick up on and where some of the discomfort comes. I'm sure it's not impossible to have that same connection, but just as a generalization of bi males, it's different.

 

To answer the question about seeing male-male sex in a club, I haven't, but it wouldn't bother me if I did. The only bother would be Mrs. cplnuswing elbowing me out of the way so she could get a better view since she finds that hot But, if the male-male sex was "cold" for a lack of a better term, and the other sex all around it was "warm", then it probably would bother me, but in a sense that it just seemed out of place and sort of a downer on the whole scene.

[JandKinBoise 859]

"Different minded" is a good term. My ranking of sexual openness by orientation goes 1)bisexual 2)gay 3)swingers and last vanilla. IMO, swingers are essentially vanilla folks who are in an actively sexual, very secure relationship where experimenting has taken them to this level. Swapping has been accepted forever. Sure the eye roll or wink but not the hate other activities dredge up. You can see this on this board where overly sexual posts get some uncomfortable replies and die early. A graphic post on the bi site brings dozens of responses, most with a penthouse forum quality about them.

 

A thought about nature vs nurture. I didn't know if we were born with our orientation or if we acquired it along the way. Then I noticed that when bisexual guys were asked about their childhood sexual experiences, they were ridiculously vast. As a comparison, I asked here the same question about childhood sex experiences. I got quite a few responses and the most graphic response was about how Barbies were made to have sex. Barbies?? Really?? But then it dawned on me and my ranking fell into place.

 

As for the change here on SB, some probably is PC, some actual acceptance, some just not voicing an opinion because some opinions are not welcome. That was the point of the question in the op. I guess I picture a guy coming up to me at a club, seeing a couple dudes banging away and whispering some disparaging remarks in private. But overall, it appears that the issue of bisexual or gay really isn't an issue for swingers. And that makes perfect sense. Why discuss something that has little bearing on ones life?

 

Thanks for the responses.

K

[M1F2KTJ 473]

Most "straight" women think that a man having sex with another man is not sexy. Surprising your wife by exploring your curiosity might not end well.

[kikonkrome 844]

Sorry it took me a while to reply to this as I read this days ago, but didn't have the time to give it the treatment it deserved.

 

I have been living in this society in the United States for 50 years. In the beginning sex between men was not spoken of. Later, it was spoken of with hate, disgust and violence. Later still, it was accepted with a roll of the eyes. Remember the sitcom 'Will and Grace'?

 

I hated that fucking TV show. However, my friends in the gay community loved it. The gay caricatures in it really bother me, and I could never figure out why until you posted that.

 

Today, there is some acceptance of bisexuality in the LS. More guys are admitting that they would be open to at least the possibility of touching a guy. After all, it's just sex.

 

There is still a big gap in the swinging lifestyle and the bisexual lifestyle. There is a good reason for this. The bisexual 'community' (if there is such a thing), compared to the swinging community are completely different. The swinging LS, although based on sex, runs much deeper. There is community, clubs, parties, friends, and oh yes, sex. In the bisexual world, there is confusion about where we fit. There is intense greed about sex, wanting it all and wanting it now. There is shame and self hate for being a square peg in a world of round holes. I understand this. The range of bisexuality is confusing even to us. If you want to see confusion, visit a bisexual site. There the fully bi men can be hateful to partially bi men and so on. Also, the range of conversation is very narrow: sex, VERY graphic sex

 

Thanks for telling me there is a male bi-sexual lifestyle. I really didn't know. I am aware of the hatefulness of gay men to bi-men although I think this is relaxing more, maybe it's just everybody being older and wiser. I am not really 'around' the gay community as much anymore, so I could be wrong. I did get sick of the straight guy baiting/anger thing. I accept people at their face value and have a tendency to forget that others don't.

 

There has always been hate spewed by straight and gay men because bisexuality fails to fit into a nice box. We want to think that everyone sees the world like we do and bisexuality throws a wrench into that feeling. For our part, bisexuality is not all fun and prancing though daisy fields. I know of no bisexual men that are not on antidepressants except me and I am crippled by depression and will eventually be hauled to a shrink by J to unfuck me.

 

I think there is less hate spewed at the male bi-sexual community. I have also definitely heard a lot of hate speech coming from both the liberal straight community and gay community towards the bi-sexual community. I guess I am not on anti-depressants. Still I am sorry that you are feeling crippled. I had a very close male bi-sexual friend who was having serious issues. I do see a shrink as well. Must admit never talked to him about my bi-sexuality.

 

I would appreciate a discussion on this topic. I'm mostly interested in guys opinions since the woman are usually much more open minded on the subject but please don't hesitate to voice an opinion. When guys are chatting at say a club or M&G and the subject of bisexuality comes up, what are the opinions? Is everyone just lip serving the PC world or are there actual opinions being voiced? How do YOU feel about seeing men having sex with men?

 

Wholly fuck, if you are a guy at a standard swing club, that is not specifically open to m-m contact DO NOT BRING THIS SUBJECT UP! That is my opinion. I have heard really violent tirades from guys and girls, who have had a male swing partner 'touch' them. I have bumped knees with a guy while we are fucking and had him freak out on me.

 

No, I don't tell them I am bi, I play by the rules of the club I am at.

 

The discussions I have had with like minded people at a swing club that is m-f, f-f (kinda the standard here in Chicago) has literally been whispers. I had one guy 'sneak' touch me too. I just wish he had said something, as I have no 'gaydar'.

 

If we were to attend a swing event, I would show up as a fully straight guy and no one would be the wiser. Living a straight life has exposed me to what I feel is the actual opinion of the general public which is pretty negative towards non-straight men. Even if the rules accepted m-m sex, I would not participate. I honestly feel that man to man sex is not a public event, even I don't want to see it, it's like 2 machines going at it.

 

I enjoy watching to men kiss, or give each other BJ's, kinda fun. Also enjoy looking at the other guys when my wife and I play. Especially if I am attracted to him. I am not typically attracted to the average guy though, so it's touchy.

 

Am I wrong? Is m-m sex just hunky dory and I'm just in a conservative cave?

 

NO, you are not wrong. I was kinda appalled from the outside when the gay marriage laws went into effect. All the newspapers were only showing women holding hands or kissing. Like no men were getting married.

 

Now I want to share my experiences.

 

First off, gay night clubs I find super sex charged. More so than 'vanilla' clubs, in my opinion. I have been to a few but never had any spark with anybody. It is really typical to see guys making out or a bit more in the 'corners'. I never went to an all guy sex party so I can't really compare my experiences to that. I have a friend into the more extreme end of things and he definitely describes stuff I wouldn't have believed. Still the little gay party boy isn't my type so that was a bust.

 

Now in the swing of things with my wife, we get to experiment with our sexuality. We attend an all bi-sexual party where there is m-m contact. The biggest surprise to me was the lack of men kissing, or flirting with each other. Really different from the gay clubs I am familiar with, or the f-f contact at typical clubs. I was really into the idea of possibilities, sigh my hopes were dashed. Things soon heat up, there are a lot of public BJ's and sex, but not a lot of kissing,. Now J, a guy I've played with has said he has seen some, the last time we talked about it. So maybe I just missed it. We have been twice. We will go again schedule permitting. J promised we would publicly make out next time we are there, .

 

The weird thing about the bi-party is, it is really hard to tell the guys that are there for both the men and the women, and the guys that are just there for the women. I have had zero luck trying to chat up guys that I thought were attractive at the party. I will be the first to admit though I don't know what I am doing. Still I have made an effort.

 

Are you correct that lifestyle people aren't into m-m contact? Yeah some of them (and this is guys as well as girls).

 

I think the lifestyle is a cross section of society, just with bigger libido's. I am not sure if society will ever really 'accept' male homosexuality. Legalize it sure, but not in the same way female homosexuality is accepted.

 

For me for now, bi-sexuality is another kinky thing for my wife's and my quiver.

[GMOFLEISURE 221]

Been catching up on the DL sexual world the past ten months, after a 34 year hiatus of straight sex. A lot of visable differences.

 

On the question of "bi sexual clubs" I've observed a few things so far: bi sexuals, male & female, ae still mixed in their activities with the gay crowd. That is for same sex encounters a lot of bi, particularly singles, go to the same venues as the gay. The sucessful ones there know how to mask their bi nature from the haters among the gay side and how to spot the bi friendly people. This runs the whole range from gay bars or clubs to the back rooms of the sex stores and WalMart restrooms. The closest thing to a focused bi venue today would be house or hotel parties aimed at exclusively bi, either males, females, or couples.

 

Since m/m contact is still not accepted in most swinger clubs there may be a market for some friendly to couples with a bi male. Maybe there are already some in the really big population centers like NY, LA, ect... Beyond that the interminged or overlapping nature of the bi & gay orientations may mean there is not a huge 'need' for exclusively bi venues. Dare I say the hardcore gays need to accept ther eis no clear dividing line and also accept the bi and poly crowd?

[enhancer 1,586]

I am not bi myself, but Ms Enhancer is! All that I can think of when male bi sexuality comes up and all the hate towards it is a part from the song People Are People.

 

I can't understand what makes a man hate another man? Help me understand! Help me understand!

[BuiltForSin 66]

If we were to attend a swing event, I would show up as a fully straight guy and no one would be the wiser. Living a straight life has exposed me to what I feel is the actual opinion of the general public which is pretty negative towards non-straight men. Even if the rules accepted m-m sex, I would not participate. I honestly feel that man to man sex is not a public event, even I don't want to see it, it's like 2 machines going at it.

 

Am I wrong? Is m-m sex just hunky dory and I'm just in a conservative cave?

 

Living in your area and having attended a few meets/parties/etc I can tell you exactly what happens here: it won't fly at all and you will be avoided if people find out you are bi because nobody wants that reputation. The men will quietly talk about who is and is not, the women are more openly hostile talking about it.

 

In clubs we have visited (and the one party) out of state it has never been a topic - the men are assumed straight and the women can go either way.

[JandKinBoise 859]

Yea, Boise likes to come across as 'Little Portland' but it seems more conservative than the tiny farm town I grew up in Montana. I don't get it.

[NerdsAreFun 229]

The only swing club left standing here in Portland is the Velvet Rope. Which their promo video actually features a m/f couple going in and then each of them pairing off with the same sex. Check out 'The Velvet Rope Promo' on Youtube.

 

Still though even here you want to be careful with how you broach the topic. As there are some who are simply not interested. But as mentioned there are some who are so anti-m/m that they could potentially become violent with even an accidental brush against another man in a 3some.