Playmates aren't my equal

[intuition897 2,179]

Yep sounds like a complete dictatorship.

 

 

LOL, I am such a child. Sorry for the threadjacking, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[benawyl 35]

Hahaha awesome!^^^^^^^

[Mbgdallas 203]

OK, I'm not going to bandy words with you about this, and I don't appreciate your offensive personal comments. You did not start this thread and you don't own it, so who are you to tell me that my opinion is rubbish? I will not respond to your posts, further.

 

Gee bob. I am so broken up that you won't reply to my posts anymore. I am glad I am an adult.

 

Let's see bob. You said "Sorry but your example shows that you are using intimacy as an excuse, but the real issue is control and who has it." That was a direct addressing to me, my post, and my feelings. I responded directly to that. I never said that I owned this post... Where are you coming from? I addressed your opinion as it related to YOU telling ME I was wrong in how I feel. You have no idea how I feel other than what I tell you. You don't know me at all.

 

All of this being said... I apologize if I offended you in some way. You have your opinion... I get that... You are entitled to your opinion... Great, I respect that... I disagree with your opinion and stated so... You put your opinion out on the board and didn't expect people to reply and disagree?

 

Again, if I offended you I am truly sorry. I didn't mean to do so.

[Mbgdallas 203]

This issue is clearly about control, because the OP says it's a dealbreaker, and is issuing ultimatums about it, instead of attempting to work it out through communication, trust and compromise. He is dictating, or attempting to, his partners preferences under threat. As I have said in other posts, a couple is not a single entity, but a union of two single entities. Never, is there going to be complete agreement about all issues, not just sexual ones. Healthy, loving, equal relationships find a way to work these issues out, without threats, without blame, and without control. Take it for what you will.

 

While ultimatums are never a good idea... It is good communication if you reflect how you feel about something and how you will respond. The other party then has to decide where their line is... You have made yours clear. Is the relationship important enough to not cross that boundary when you know doing so will end the relationship.

 

I guess saying you will leave your spouse for fucking someone else is also about control. While yes it could be about control... I think that in the lifestyle it tends to not be about control but about the whys and the feelings. If not, then the individuals probably don't have the relationship that is needed to be in the lifestyle.

[kikonkrome 844]

aww... come on Bob250 kiss and make up??

 

 

 

[Baconheads 437]

My GF and I had an interesting experience at a swinger club Halloween party a few weeks ago. We had met a few hot couples and were having a very nice time when one of the couples asks us to play. We agreed, with the understanding that we were "soft" meaning everything was on the table, except we fuck our own girl. He said you can fuck my wife any time you want.

 

So we were playing orally with each others girl and I reach over to feel my girl's pussy and it was soaking wet! I said, " What did that man do to your pussy?" She said, "I don't know, but it felt really good!" Now I have made many a girl come like that(squirting) but not typically with her. So later that night, I recreated the experience for her.

 

Without the other dude showing her the way, We would have not had that opportunity. We still held to our soft swing ways that night.

[Bob250 74]

In the interest of courtesy, I will accept your rather graceless "apology", but you should actually apologize , not for disagreeing with me (which you have every right to do), but for your blanket statement that I didn't know what I was talking about, which IS, very definitely, an insult. You did exactly what you accused me of doing. While I disagreed with you, I never personally attacked you, but you did, me. Therein lies the difference.

[kikonkrome 844]

Mbgdallas - Bob250

 

I think that is a good as it get's, remember it's only an online forum...I feel like I deserve a Nobel Prize

[Bob250 74]

I am nothing, if not a cooperative motherf*cker. LOL

[Bob250 74]

Next time I'm in Stockholm, I will put your name in the mix.

[intuition897 2,179]

Oh FFS. Relax, guys! Arguing with strangers on the internet: always an exercise in futility. Learned that the hard way. The best we can do is agree to disagree, be polite, don't judge/make assumptions, and give one another the benefit of the doubt...because no one knows what it's like being in anyone else's shoes. I've loved being on SB for so many years because of the near complete absence of sniping and hostility. Now, whenever I see it, it's sort of like somebody just took a shit in the middle of the floor. I'll probably avoid this thread now because it stinks in here. LOL

[Bob250 74]

Please don't leave until you explain what FFS means.

[MrDiscover 802]

For Fuck's Sake!

 

(great, I wanted to say that here since yesterday and now I safely can, you even asked for it )

[kikonkrome 844]

 

[Guest sandraandalex]

Wow, with such absolutes, failure is inevitable. You're keeping score sexually making certain you always win. Here's the thing, you aren't winning anything and boy, neither is she. In our swing lives we have no rules or controls; no borders or boundaries. We are happy to have an environment where anything is possible. The result is our married life, sex life and swing relationships are so much better than what you will have . Controls , in your case, are components of fear and when we substitute fear for reason, it's never a good outcome. Ever consider just having an amazingly fun night and not policing for behaviors that you don't like (and she may love !) ? Sheesh.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

We invest our time and energy in making love, not fighting, especially on the internet. It's like fighting with a shadow...even if you hit it, nothing happens.

[two4youinswva 3,068]

"They're just pixels on a screen"

-VegasLee ca. 2005

[benawyl 35]

Wow, with such absolutes, failure is inevitable. You're keeping score sexually making certain you always win. Here's the thing, you aren't winning anything and boy, neither is she. In our swing lives we have no rules or controls; no borders or boundaries. We are happy to have an environment where anything is possible. The result is our married life, sex life and swing relationships are so much better than what you will have . Controls , in your case, are components of fear and when we substitute fear for reason, it's never a good outcome. Ever consider just having an amazingly fun night and not policing for behaviors that you don't like (and she may love !) ? Sheesh.

 

I don't police. I try to ignore what she is doing on the other side of the bed.

 

I just know in my heart of hearts I couldn't stay with her if she intentionally let somebody else cum inside her. I just know that would be the end of us. I told her that not to threaten but to avoid her being ambushed if I didn't.

[Guest sandraandalex]

I think the end of your relationship would be the best for all involved.

[benawyl 35]

I think the end of your relationship would be the best for all involved.

 

And why is that?

[Mbgdallas 203]

I don't police. I try to ignore what she is doing on the other side of the bed.

 

I just know in my heart of hearts I couldn't stay with her if she intentionally let somebody else cum inside her. I just know that would be the end of us. I told her that not to threaten but to avoid her being ambushed if I didn't.

 

I think those are reasonable feelings... Feelings only you can know you have. Maybe with more experience and playtime those feelings will change and it won't be an issue... Maybe not. It doesn't really matter. It is up to you two to decide what is right for you.

 

Sometimes it is best to starts low and conservatively until you know what feelings are going to come out. I swear up and down I won't have a problem watching my wife have sex with someone else... Do I really really know how I will react until I am actually faced with the situation? I doubt it. Better to not cross a major boundary that could blow everything up until you know more how you may feel about that boundary.

[Bob250 74]

DOOH!! Brain fart time. What a dumbass I am. LOL

[Bob250 74]

Pixels on a screen? Reminds me of the old joke my Grandpaw used to tell. " She was only a farmer's daughter, but you aught to see her plow".

[MrDiscover 802]

And why is that?

 

I think that is too harsh but I do feel that the LS is not for you two at the moment and the most important reason for me would be that you seem to do it only for her. Which sounds like a red flag to me.

[benawyl 35]

I think that is too harsh but I do feel that the LS is not for you two at the moment and the most important reason for me would be that you seem to do it only for her. Which sounds like a red flag to me.

 

I do it primarily for her. I do look forward to the 22yo girl this weekend. Supposed to have a FMF also this weekend. Every now and then I need to get something out of this.

 

We have one of the best relationships I've ever had outside of swinging. Laugh all the time. Never fight, great hot varied sex life together. Common interests and on and on.

[Bob250 74]

I am very intrigued by this idea of "special" sex. I would really like somebody to explain to me what constitutes "special" or "reserved " sex. Now, my GF was formerly very involved in the LS, prior to her divorce (which was not LS related). She has done pretty much everything sexual you can do, except for a few fetish things that she isn't into. I , also, have done just about every hetero sexual act you can perform. Although, she has said that "I fuck her stupid" or "I fuck her silly" or things like that, what we are doing, in the LS or out of it, is pretty much what everybody else does. So there is nothing she can do to me or I to her that hasn't been done before to or by either of us. "Special" isn't about sex, "special" is about love. That is why the LS isn't about "special", it's about fun!! Also, the LS isn't about setting boundaries, it's about exploding them.

[intuition897 2,179]

Benawyl, I can't recall from your other posts: do you cum in other women? Is that okay for you to do, or do you reserve that act for your girlfriend alone?

[benawyl 35]

Benawyl, I can't recall from your other posts: do you cum in other women? Is that okay for you to do, or do you reserve that act for your girlfriend alone?

 

No I have not cum inside a swing partner. Would I love to? Absolutely.

 

Mf GF even mentioned being ok with me going bare sometimes. She said she knows how much better it'd be for me. But I suspect the offer may be an angle shoot.

 

But I'm not going to do it. I don't care how much I love that.

 

My GF really is way more carefree about swinging.

[couplers 4,718]

...

 

My GF really is way more carefree about swinging.

 

That's the way my husband is. At first he was willing to accept a one-way situation where I played with my ex-fiance, but due to my constraints, he had to remain monogamous with me. He was very understanding and after a couple of years I came around to not only letting him play as well, but also wanting him to do so. Do whatever is comfortable for both and keep developing together.

[10thBadger 25]

On 10/4/2015 at 11:14 PM, funcoupledayton said:

 

I disagree also. Initially, I had said I wouldn't wouldn't do anal with anyone but my husband. I said that because I didn't think I would want to or trust someone else. One night we were playing with a couple and it happened and went very well.

 

Afterward, my husband said, "I thought you said you wouldn't do anal with anyone else?" I explained that things were going well and I wanted to. I think he felt a little hurt and thought it was a rule. But, what he said was, "It's your body, you can do what you want."

 

I am extremely grateful that my husband felt that way. One of the things I love best about swinging is the freedom I experience. I would not like it at all if my husband told me I had to limit my repertoire so he was the only one who got something sexual. He is special because we are married, have a family, love and commitment. 

Baders Wife,

 

After you let a stranger/play partner do anal with you and you understood that it hurt your husband. Why would you do it again? I thought we are supposed to be protecting our partners from being hurt. I know that your husband said it’s your body you can do what you want but you do understand it he was hurting even when he said that. Just a question

[10thBadger 25]

On 10/5/2015 at 12:05 PM, GuyInMD79 said:

Interesting discussion, and I think this is fairly closely related to the topic of the thread.

 

The Mrs. and I have had several rules, limits, or non-preferences that have fallen by the wayside in the year-and-change we have been doing this. We have handled these in a variety of ways, some good and some less good- talking at the kitchen table, checking in in the heat of the moment to ask to relax a rule, and once in a while, just doing it and then talking it over later. The conversation is often not as pleasant when we do the "asking forgiveness rather than permission" thing...

 

But I think we understand the difference between the little things and the bigger things. For example, the Mrs. Did not like the idea of having a guy cumming in her mouth during a blowjob. She had an occasion during one multi-guy play session (I was not one of the guys! That was another topic for discussion), where she gave oral to a guy, "to completion". Now, I might have liked to get that treatment once in a while, and I had not brought it up in a long time because I thought she would not like it. I was surprised (and, if I'm being honest, a very little bit hurt at the time) to hear that she did this. That started a good conversation between us, feelings were aired and discussed, and a little while later we had a very hot time together where she gave me the same treatment! The lessons we learned from that are that 1) swinging is a great way to expand your sexual boundaries, 2) any new tricks learned during swinging play are not a threat or a reason to feel hurt or jealous; rather, they should be incorporated into our own play, and 3) don't sweat the small stuff!

 

The big things, we take more seriously of course. On the rare occasions when a rule that is very important to one of us has been broken, we have talked it over. This does create a problem, but we deal with it, usually constructively, and with an assumption of goodwill and non-hurtful intentions on both sides. The lesson we are learning from these kinds of occurrences is that we each, as human beings, are imperfect creatures, with biases and weaknesses. These imperfections don't mean that we love each other any less. And we understand that swinging is an activity where there is a constant danger of our imperfections being tested by opportunities for heat-of-the-moment bad decision making, as well as immature or irrational hurt feelings. So, understanding this, we try to give each other a little bit of a break!

Question,

 

If you have been asking your wife for 10 years to give you a blowjob to completion in to let you cum inside of her mouth. And Answer has always been I don’t like that and I don’t want to do that with anyone. Then you come to find out, your wife was more than willing to do that with a playmate and had no problem doing it. I think I will probably have much more than hurt feelings because you are her husband and you have been requesting this for a long time and being denied. I’m not sure how you could just be a little hurt by her actions. How did you wrap your head around that? How did you get past that other than the fact that she was willing to do it now with you after she did it with somebody else, so my thinking was while reading your post. The only reason she did it with you  being her husband is because she did it with a playmate. How did you get your head around it?

[10thBadger 25]

On 10/5/2015 at 9:59 PM, intuition897 said:

 

Because the harsh truth is, you ARE on the same level as any other man with a penis. I find it odd that that one particular act defines the success or failure of your relationship. The bottom line is, sex is just sex. She doesn't get to choose whether or not she is physically attracted to others; she just is. She can't "tone down" her attraction. Either you accept that she's enjoying another man's cock, or you don't. It really has nothing to do with you. And it has nothing to do with how much she might love or respect you. It's just her enjoying her own body.

 

Her body belongs to her. You don't get to own that shit. The best you can ever hope for when you're in a relationship with another person is the privilege of being allowed to ask him or her to please not do this or that, because you find it hurtful. It isn't a right. Out of love and respect, your partner will usually comply. But we should each retain the right to say, "No, I don't think it's okay for you to ask that of me. I think you need to work on yourself so you don't need to ask me to do/not do that."

 

Benawyl, you've often posted your views on how other men are "getting more than you". I find this concept very confusing. I can only suggest that the key to resolving this feeling of inadequacy (the need to hoard all the "special sex" for yourself and deny it to other men) is surely in your own mind. Why do you care what some "extra" thinks, anyway?

Question.

 

So you believe that women can do whatever they want to do because it is her body. And I believe in someway you are correct. But if you are married that person also has a right to have a say it what they are willing to stay with you or not. I think from what I’ve read on this site, the most important thing is the marriage relationship, and rules are set to protect hurt feelings from coming forward to that marriage relationship. Of course everybody has the right to do anything that they want to do, but we also have to except the consequences of our actions  if our marriage partner gets upset and if the other half of the partnership does not care whether the other half gets upset or not because they want to do what they want to do regardless of their husband or wife feelings being hurt. Then that person that does not care about their marriage relationship and that person‘s feelings should have no problem understanding if that person leaves them  because it is obvious the other side does not care. What do you think about what I just said?

[10thBadger 25]

On 10/6/2015 at 10:05 PM, cplnuswing said:

 

So sex is a commodity to be bartered or offered in payment? What's going to happen when you aren't able to take care of her when she's sick or fix the house anymore, or when she's not able to have sex anymore?

 

It's funny you used the getting sick example, because that's one I like to use but from the other direction. Anybody can fuck, no problem finding someone for that, but fucking doesn't equal love and commitment. Setting your life aside to take care of them when they are sick, that demonstrates love and commitment IF it is freely given...which obviously isn't always the case I guess.

I totally understand what you were saying, but I totally disagree with you. I think you are twisting what he is trying to say. I don’t think he was saying that what he’s doing for his wife is a commodity. I think he’s trying to say which very clear to me that because he does do these things with love and honor and respect that he should not be put in the same bucket with a dude just showing up penetrating his wife for pleasure.

[10thBadger 25]

On 10/7/2015 at 3:48 PM, Alura said:

 

I suppose it depends on the situation, Benawyl. If you're in a situation, such as a club, where you don't know the folks you're considering swinging with, the "why" is not important. A simple "yes' or "no" will be more than enough.

 

If you're dealing with friends, or folks you'd like to become friends, the "why" becomes important.

 

If you're dealing with your spouse, the "why" is absolutely critical.

Badgers wife,

 

Let’s say for example, husband and wife go to the club and The husband says I don’t want to play with Angela and Bob. And the wife says screw that I’m going to play with them anyway. And disregard what her husband wants her to do. Obviously his wife can do whatever she wants to do because it is her body, but she can’t get upset when her husband throws a fit and gets super angry or better yet she goes to play with Angela and Bob and comes out of the room and can’t find her husband because he left her there.

 

I do agree that everybody has the right to do what they want to do, but there are always consequences when you are in a partnership and marriage. Yes nobody owns anybody but in a partnership you do have to justify your actions and if you choose not to. The other half of the partnership can either work it out with you or they can tell you to hit the door. It’s just funny that every time somebody breaks a rule, the first thing that comes out is communication  and when the person comes back and said we spoke about it for months, somebody will come back and say well maybe you didn’t communicate enough. That person knew they were doing something wrong and they knew it was going to make their partner upset. They just have to understand that there are consequences for their actions. Am I wrong in thinking this way? 

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/2/2015 at 2:14 PM, Mbgdallas said:

 

No! No! No! Absolutely not! This is not misogynistic and I find the throwing around of labels without any understanding offensive.

 

Sorry that you are so hung up on specific words and don't read what was written. The intent was absolutely clear. It is a JOINT decision whether it be ownership or partnership. It is the relationship that matters and they BOTH have ownership of the RELATIONSHIP.

 

I think my first statement made it very clear. I don't agree with body ownership. Neither "own" each other... They both have ownership of the marriage and the partnership... With that comes some desired control over the others body... Or the marriage/partnership has a crack that could collapse it. There are also degrees. If I like long hair and my spouse cuts her hair short... Don't think that it would break up the marriage... The why behind it might... So if my spouse doesn't want to break up the marriage then she needs to consider my feelings. So... The cutting of the hair and ownership is not the true issue... It is the symptom that shows a potential lack of caring or respect.

 

This issue is way deeper than outright "ownership". It is about communication, understanding, desire, and respect.

 

I like long hair... Wife decides she wants short hair because her other lover likes short hair... What does that say about how she feels about me?

 

I like long hair... Wife decides she wants short hair because she is stressed with having to get the kids up every morning and get them to school and herself to work while I am on the road for work... Short hair is easier in the morning and therefore less stressful... What does that say about me if I don't understand and give up on wanting the long hair?

Absolutely perfect example.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/3/2015 at 1:07 AM, Bob250 said:

Mbgdallas said:

I don't think why is about control, ownership, and boundaries. I would say that the why IS about intimacy. It goes something like this.

 

I don't want my wife to kiss another guy because it is too intimate. My wife wants to kiss because she enjoys it and doesn't see it as too intimate. The problem arises when I can't control how I feel about the hurt I experience when she kisses. If she ignores my wishes and my hurt what does that say... I don't care enough not to hurt you? That is not a control, ownership, or boundary issue. It is a love, respect, not want to hurt your partner issue because the other thinks it is too intimate.

 

If it was just about control, ownership, or boundaries it would just be don't kiss because I said so.

Sorry but your example shows that you are using intimacy as an excuse, but the real issue is control and who has it.

Question 

so if her husband says I do not want you to kiss with your partners and wife says I am going to kiss because it makes me feel good when I’m having sex with my partners. And she understands that her husband doesn’t want her to do that because he wants that to be for himself and not everybody else. And the wife says I don’t care if it hurts you I just wanna do it because it makes me feel good at that time with my partner. Does your husband have to be considered an asshole if he leaves her because she is deciding to do what she wants to do.? She can’t expect it just come home and say hey, I know I didn’t do what you asked me to do because I didn’t want to but you can’t be upset with me about it . That’s just unrealistic.

 

There’s always consequences for your actions, that is why so many of you in the swinger community don’t want everybody else to find out what you were doing because you understand there’s going to be consequences for this lifestyle because of the way  the rest of the world thinks about this lifestyle. 

 

we except consequences every day with our actions that we take. And that includes relationships. If I do something that my wife does not want me to do just because I say I want to do it and I don’t care what you think or how you feel about it. And my wife jumps up and walks out the door and says see you later. That’s on me, and not on her because I put my relationship in jeopardy.

 

[10thBadger 25]

On 11/5/2015 at 10:16 AM, Bob250 said:

I am very intrigued by this idea of "special" sex. I would really like somebody to explain to me what constitutes "special" or "reserved " sex. Now, my GF was formerly very involved in the LS, prior to her divorce (which was not LS related). She has done pretty much everything sexual you can do, except for a few fetish things that she isn't into. I , also, have done just about every hetero sexual act you can perform. Although, she has said that "I fuck her stupid" or "I fuck her silly" or things like that, what we are doing, in the LS or out of it, is pretty much what everybody else does. So there is nothing she can do to me or I to her that hasn't been done before to or by either of us. "Special" isn't about sex, "special" is about love. That is why the LS isn't about "special", it's about fun!! Also, the LS isn't about setting boundaries, it's about exploding them.

My wife just say something crazy funny,

 

She said I’m gonna eat this special cereal in a special way. Even though I’m going to use the same spoon, the same bowl, and the same milk that came out of the same carton. Then I’m going to take this normal cereal, and I’m going to eat it not in a special way, using the same spoon, using the same bowl, using the same milk that came out of the same carton.

 

But the best quote was, if everything done it’s OK then how can anything be special. I was thinking about the guy saying kissing. If the woman is kissing her playmate the exact same way that she is going to be kissing her husband, with intimacy and passion and I’m using her words because it makes your hot and so wet. How can kissing her husband be special if she’s getting the same affects physically as she is kissing her partner?