Is swinging mainly for cuckolds and bi women?

[CandAinDenver 15]

We are an attractive, fit, talented, successful, intelligent 38 year old younger looking couple with a strong marriage, opinions and personalities to match. We have an amazing sex life, and are looking for other couples like us to explore conversation and swapping.

 

We are apparently nothing like other swinger couples so I'll just throw that out there right up front. I have absolutely no hidden cuckold tendencies, am pretty disgusted by that whole scene, and my wife is extremely turned off by the type of guys who would enjoy seeing another guy fuck their wife. I view that strictly as a necessary evil to enjoy my own sexual freedom in a fair way. I am not overwhelmed by jealousy or anything of the sort, I just don't get off on or enjoy the idea of my wife with another guy. I am the head of my household, and my wife respects me as such. That's the way she wants it, and that's the way I want it. We've read so many stories where "the women are in charge, and that's just the way it is with swinging", and neither of us want anything to do with that. My wife is no pushover, and is every bit as strong willed and intelligent as I am, we just enjoy our traditional gender roles and find them comforting and sexy.

 

We are looking for couples who share this mindset. I would only consider swapping with a couple headed by a man I can respect, who respects me enough to look me in the eye and truthfully say, "no, I don't like the idea of you being with my wife, but I do like the idea of being with yours, and I'm sure you'd like being with mine as well, so maybe we can work something out."

 

Again, that may sound like total heresy to the community, but almost everything we have read sounds like men who are submissive by nature and women who are running the show, and that's just not going to do it for us.

 

I have read a ton of articles and threads discussing swinging, and it almost always comes down to the "watching my wife get fucked is so hot" angle. I even have a friend who swings with his wife, and he confessed that he "lets her enjoy a BBC once in a while", without reciprocity, even though she cheated on him a few ears ago in a similar situation. The guy is totally manly in other regards, but to me that just stinks of low self worth and a beta nature.

 

I have tried to do my own research and answer my own question, but I'm genuinely not sure of the answer at this point. My wife isn't bi, and I only like the idea of being with other women; my wife is only on board if there's another alpha guy involved, and it doesn't seem like there are a lot of those out there who swap with other guys.

 

I'm sincerely not trying to offend anyone, so please be clear if I have that was not my intention, but is the vast majority of the swinger scene really just guys looking for other guys to bone their wives and bisexual women where the guy is just there in tow, mainly to observe?

[njbm 2,906]

If my wife is playing, I want to play, too. A swap with another couple is easiest. I think we've noticed that the women who are into women and the women who don't want to play can skew the numbers against the males.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,026]

I'm sincerely not trying to offend anyone, so please be clear if I have that was not my intention, but is the vast majority of the swinger scene really just guys looking for other guys to bone their wives and bisexual women where the guy is just there in tow, mainly to observe?

You've found a few people who express these preferences and you are projecting them onto all of us. That is not fair. You're invited to a party at our home. Partygoers hook up with people of their own choosing and for their own reasons. They are too busy to be watching what others are doing.

[Alura 2,775]

Most of our experiences were swaps with other couples. I wouldn't say Mrs. Alura and I were "normal" in any sense.

 

Swinging attracted us because we were both sexually active before we met. Early in our relationship we discovered that we could no longer "play" at sex. Try as we might, our care for each other resulted in "making love" when we were together. We both missed the carefree "fun" we had had when we were single. We found that when we swapped with other couples, people we didn't love, we could recapture what we missed.

 

Early in our marriage, we experimented with her acting the role of a "Hot Wife." (She fucked a hunk of a guy, a man she would have fucked for fun when she was single. I was not present for "the event," as Laura called it.) It was a fun experience that we shared. I knew of her intentions before he did and helped plan the whole thing, advising her on what to wear, lipstick, hair style, etc. I never felt "cuckold" in that there was no humiliation of any kind and we had a great time when she told me in detail about her adventure, in bed. We never felt the need to repeat the experience.

 

I've heard of couples with bi-wives who swing to give her access to bi-women, but we never knowingly met such a couple.

 

In short, I think you're wrong, CandA. Most people who swing preferring swapping. How well they know and love each other determines whether or not they have jealousy issues or a need to belittle each other.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

First off, welcome to the site!

 

What are you basing your perceptions on? What you've read in online profiles, what you've experienced at swinger events, other couples you've met, or something else? I ask that because what you're describing isn't consistent with what we have experienced, either online or in person. For the record, he doesn't consider himself a cuckold at all, and she is straight, so we don't fit in your "mainly" group. Yet nearly every swinger couple we have met has been just like us with the minor exception being some of the other girls may have identified as some degree of bi but it wasn't enough of a degree that straight couple on couple swap wasn't what they were primarily interested in.

 

Women are the beating heart of the Lifestyle, so if you've got a problem with that, then swinging probably isn't for you. If you insist on swimming against the flow, you're going to find that effort to be futile and frustrating. There are lots of swingers out there, and people will just pass on by someone who seems to be determined to make things work like they want them to work instead of how they do work in reality.

 

But, on the bright side, there are enough swingers in all sorts of flavors, that if you look hard enough, there is probably someone out there who is exactly what you are looking for. The narrower you get on your requirements though, then the more daunting the task of finding what you are looking for, and I suspect this will be a long search.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

Welcome!

 

We know a lot of swingers and very few are cuckolds. Many women play with women, but also men. I did not start having sex with women until I met a few I really liked. Now I consider myself bi. I would say less than half the women I know in the lifestyle are bi. We mostly swap when we're with other couples.

 

The lifestyle is really about having fun, getting to know yourself and your partner and fulfilling fantasies. Everyone is different, but I think if you go out to events, parties, clubs, etc you will meet couples like you and people you enjoy. Sometimes it just takes finding the right niche.

[kikonkrome 844]

CandAinDenver you really took down this post? Guess you're not that much of an Alpha male...

[econobiker 165]

CandAinDenver,

Welcome and don't runaway! You've got a lot of experienced folks answering your now pparently deleted post.

 

You've obviously not met the single guys who provide service to many women...

 

(Edit: 11:00pm my local time) because it looks like you've reposted your message now so I can get where you're coming from. Nothing I'm posting here is to offend you, it's just to give you some ideas and food for thought from my experience in the lifestyle.

 

TL/DR response version from me is: that you and your wife should seek out married, both straight couples, for full swap, not in same room. Maybe throw some "light domestic discipline" and/or "traditional head of household relationship" and/or "traditional roles" verbage into whatever profile advertising who you're seeking and who you are If you're not familiar with domestic discipline or head of household terms read up on those. Maybe list seeking "alpha male led couple to swap wife with wife from similar alpha male led couple".

 

Additional response information: Based on your above post, you won't be going to swing parties, clubs, events but be looking for couple2couple meetings. You WILL be required to have your wife involved with the search and contact of other couples. Here's why- unless your wife and the other wife voice, skype, etc. verify, you are going to waste alot of time and effort with profile goobers who say that they are couples but are either a single male or a married male who is trying to spring swinging on his unknowing wife. "Meet us at some bar, act natural like we've never talked before, we'll all get drunk together, I know my wife just needs a little bit of a push to swing." typically doesn't work out for every situation.

 

Now, my opinion (like noses and assholes -we all have one) which:

You maybe getting confused between the terms "control" and "dominate", control implies shared goal with shared limits, where as dominate implies a goal of only one without concern for another's limits

Real swingers tend to be very traditional relationship folks with just a little bit off from the mainstream.

95% of the cuckold stories are written by the guy involved not the woman. There has been supposedly found a phyisoloigal component to male libido that increases when there is "sperm competition" with another male or males. This, again supposedly, amps up guys to more erotic heights and plays into a female "dominated" relationship- she can run around, he can't.

If you won't or can't hook up with and fuck a single woman either on your own or with your wife present, then your wife is in control of this aspect from your post obviously she can't do likewise with a single guy which means you are in control of that aspect. Anyone can wax poetic about morals or.sanctity of marriage keeping himself from fucking a single woman, but if you're considering a couple swap you're already contemplating crossing those boundaries.

.

Many of us standard (no B/D&S/M involvement) swingers want to see our partners physically pleasured because we love the other person so much, not because we can't get the job done. Its kind of like a vanilla husband watching a vanilla wife go through a pampered "spa day" with a massage, manicure and pedicure, hair styling, because he knows it makes her feel good, not that he wants the hair styling/ manicure/ pedicure himself.

.

Per the idea of your wife having sex with another man- answer honestly for yourself only (not for me or this forum):Is my wife a sexually responsive woman? Do I want and like her to have pleasure without me? Am I happy if she uses a vibrator or dildo when I'm not around and not involved and then she tells me later? Would I be happy if she didn't tell at all about her vibrator/dildo use and I found out otherwise like finding the sextoy hidden?

Do I care if she watches porn of single men jerking themselves off? Do I care if she masturbates to those male videos and gets herself off without me involved? Do I encourage her to watch porn videos of couples and single men to help her get herself off even without my involvement in her activity?

 

Your honesty to yourself will give you the answer of if pursuing swinging is really for you as a man and husband to your wife.

[CandAinDenver 15]

At this point, I haven't seen anything at all to change my mind. What I do see, on the other hand, is that in my humble opinion, there doesn't seem to be much reason why a guy who has options would want anything to do with a scene like this. I am all about equality, but there is zero equality in clubs that charge $10 for my wife but $100 for me, even if we're a couple. I see nothing appealing about guys and couples who want to nail my wife, but have very little interest for me to be around unless I'm by myself and they're looking for a MMF. I have no doubt that I'd be a good candidate for and be sought out for those MMF situations, but the entire point of all of this for us was so that we could explore our sexuality together. The concept of swinging seems like it could work, but it looks to me more like a great way to skew the power dynamic of relationships, where men become less valuable very fast. I know on the singles market, that is most certainly not the case for me; my value is prime. So the question is, given that the likelihood of me finding what I would consider an even swap is not exactly high, but the likelihood that my wife is going to be welcomed with open arms, hit on instantly, and constantly inundated with the message that she has a high value and I, as her husband, do not, is the dead last thing that I'm interested in. We came into this situation from the outset as a way to equally approach sexual variety without having a full on open relationship, but this entire swinging scene looks to me like a one-sided deal where married guys lose. Maybe it's just slightly uneven odds, you know, like a casino in vegas, but the bottom line is that when the odds are stacked against you, if you play long enough, you will always lose. I don't gamble for a reason.

[Mbgdallas 203]

CandAinDenver,

 

I am not at all sure where you are getting your opinion from. From everything that I see on this board and elsewhere swinging is about the couple and what they want... Not each individual. Yes there are exceptions but it is about the sharing of experiences.

 

Some men are bi... Some women are bi... Some want a couples swap... Some want to play together only... Some want to play separately... The key word is some. Everyone is different but what I have seen is that it is always about the couple and the strength of their relationship.

 

As others have said the LS is generally driven by the women... Because women and men have such a different take on sex. Because of this I think it is more difficult for men.

 

I have absolutely no desire to be a cuckold... But I want to see my wife get as much pleasure sexually as she can get... Whatever the means... And in return I hope to get the same. I do this out of love for her... Not because I get off on it.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

I did not see your initial post and just responded to your subject line.

 

Now I see that you seem to have had some kind of negative experience or impression. I don't understand why experienced people responding doesn't have an impact on you? I'm not really trying to change your mind, just giving my take on it for your consideration and other people reading this.

 

We've been doing this a long time and really enjoy it. Most of the time my husband gets just as much attention as I do. In our circles of friends, husbands are very valued and appreciated. The clubs and parties we go to severely limit or do not allow single men, so most people are couples focused. We definitely view it as having adventures together and it has been amazing for our marriage.

 

It does take time and energy, plus a good attitude to find the right people to hang out with and the style that works for you. There is an investment of emotion. It's not really gambling at all, but you reap what you sow, and negativity will not bring fun times. If you are not easy going, "let's try it" type people it's probably better to not waste your time.

 

It also helps to get to know people, not automatically assume that another woman is inferior to your wife or that another man is sub-prime (you say the likelihood of finding and equal swap is low and I'm not sure why you feel that way). I have really been surprised by the great attraction and sex we've had with different people. It's really part of the fun of the lifestyle.

[ZoDee 81]

We are an attractive, fit, talented, successful.........

 

We are apparently nothing like other swinger couples so I'll just throw that out there right up front. I have absolutely no hidden cuckold tendencies, am pretty disgusted by that whole scene, and my wife is extremely turned off by the type of guys who would enjoy seeing another guy fuck their wife.......

 

I have read a ton of articles and threads discussing swinging, and it almost always comes down to the "watching my wife get fucked is so hot" angle........

 

I'd say It's not the "Seeing her getting Fucked" that I find hot, it's just the whole enjoyment of the moment thing.

Us both enjoying the moment, with our respective swapped partners.

 

And mind you, when we play, I'm always enjoying myself with the other mans partner just as much as MrsZ is with the other half.

 

So it's nothing about Cuckolding for us, just the sensation of seeing our partner having a good time too.

 

As for the concept of Cuckolding, having some man around to bank the living daylights out of MrsZ while I watch, that theme does little for me, & even less for MrsZ.

 

Cheers & have Fun.

[victoria'dreams 141]

It's not like you don't like the idea of swinging, it's that you don't like to be less attractive as your wife. Of course people and not only in the swingers lifestyle, will always care more about your wife than you! Who cares about a good looking fit guy you can have sex with? There are tons!!! On the other hand any woman that is looking, willing to have sex with have the cards in hands. That's the way it is. Some husbands don't even NEED to be interesting, good looking or do sport, because they have a wife and because of her they will be able to swing.

 

I'm a very good looking Frenchman, educated, fit and always been really successful with women and had many. It's always been easy for me to seduce a woman and I'm not the shy type. Me and my wife are a \very good looking' couple. But her compared to me? That is a JOKE she gets tons more of attention. Let's imagine that she would be single and wakes up in the morning and feeling "oh, I'd like to have sex with an hot guy today". I believe it would take her about one hour. She would just walk and ask the first guy she finds attractive "would you like to have sex with me now?" and ten minutes later that man would pay for an hotel room. What would you do as a guy, even super hot, charming, fit? It's possible, but not as certain.

 

I heard Brad Pitt saying that before he got famous, he couldn't pick up any girl. You could be the hottest guy, you will never have the success of the hottest girl. Sorry my friend.

 

If it's not turning you on to see your wife having sex with another guy it is probably because you are insecure. I know no men will ever give more pleasure to my wife than me. And if it ever happens, than I will have to work on it to be better in bed. When you feel in power, the whole thing becomes really hot. I'm dominant and enjoy a lot the slutty side of my wife. There are cuckolds that enjoy to feel humiliated but they're extremely little in numbers on this website and in the swinging scene in general. It's a small section inside this lifestyle.

[cplnluv1 874]

Everyone swings for a different reason. What is right for one is not always the best thing for another. You may have no interest in watching your wife but are you using your wife to meet other women? I gather you are finding couples who are in the same mind as you are. If you are happy to find a couple who is happy to swap and maybe go to separate rooms you have what you want. Maybe we are the couple you don't like. I had bi contact years ago. I wouldn't consider myself bi and had not been with a woman until my husband suggested it. It was something he never experienced with me or any other woman he had been with. I wouldn't say he was a cuckold, but he did want a 3some. He wanted to watch me and a woman and then have sex with her and me. When we couldn't find a woman, the Unicorn, we decided a couple was the only way we would ever get to do what we wanted. My husband knew that I would most likely have sex with the man as well as the woman. He was excited to watch me and a woman and went along with me with a man. I still won't call him a cuckold, even though he said it was exciting to watch me. We have since met other couples with bi or curious wives and husbands that also wanted to watch.

[CandAinDenver 15]

First off, I really appreciate you guys all responding to me so thoughtfully. That means a lot. It demonstrates to me that I'm not necessarily completely correct in thinking that I would basically be ignored in the scene and viewed as an obstacle to get to my wife. I still want don't think swinging is right for us at all, and I can easily explain why.

 

I want to emphasize that I am far from insecure; And I'm not one of those guys that can't get laid. The entire reason my wife and I started discussing this is because I have a very long and sordid sexual past, and had gotten used to a sort of sexual freedom that I have willingly given up to be married to my wife, because I love her and want her to feel loved more than anything.

 

Now, after ten years being in the wrong kind of job for my personality type, I'm in a profession where I interact with pretty women all the time, and part of my job is to flirt back and keep them coming back for my services. I have had several women from my past make direct sexual overtures to me, as well as a client going so far as to compliment my bulge to my face and talk about sex and their desire for me openly. This all briefly awakened a sexual demon in me, and I found myself in text conversations about sex with these women. Not okay, not one bit, and I admitted what was going on to my wife and I stopped.

 

My wife was of course wounded for a few days, but as always we talked about exactly what was happening and why. I explained that although she is the most beautiful woman I've ever known, inside and out, I'm still a human and meaningless sex has been a part of my life for a long time. I'm happy to give all of that up to be with her, and have told her so, but she doesn't like me repressing my sexual nature either. So we discussed swinging.

 

The biggest issue with that is although she has had a good amount of experience with other men, previous marriages and relationships, she is not a woman who has been promiscuous and that is not something she has ever wanted. She has frankly gotten very little enjoyment out of sex previous to me. Swinging seemed, on a certain level, a common sense way to approach our situation. That said, as we have discussed swinging and really looked at how it works, we have encountered very few people who are in our situation, and many more people in female centric relationships where her pleasure becomes the dominant factor in the relationship.

 

I take good care of my wife, and I do place her pleasure far ahead of my own sexually, always have, that's my thing I guess, but the idea of going from a place where I was enjoying ego boosts from women wanting to have sex with me and struggling with a past known quantity of me enjoying meaningless sex that I know wouldn't effect my view of our relationship, to putting myself and my wife in a position where she's having other men put their penises in her, when she doesn't even want that, and when that's also the last thing I want, just to make things "fair" while giving me everything I might want, but certainly don't need, in our relationship seems dumb at best, catastrophically stupid at worst.

 

She has no idea the effect that being with other men may have on her, and is more concerned with shutting down completely than having some wild sexual beast unleashed inside her. We regularly use every toy under the sun, and my focus on her pleasure is quite elaborate, with my greatest joy being making her have as many strong orgasms as possible each time we make love or have sex. I love seeing her in ecstasy, but the last thing on my list of wants is for other cock to be running through her.

 

I see the selfishness in that, and we've discussed it at length. Her solution after lots of talking is to arrange threesomes and moresomes with other women for us, and to be in complete control of it, with her rules on her terms, at a point where she is ready to do so. I am very happy with that idea, although I have also told her she is enough for me and I don't "need" anyone but her. She is who I want.

 

I again appreciate the time you've all taken replying to me with such candor, but I just don't see how going from the situation my wife and I started this conversation in, to this female-centric sexual exchange where women are of extreme value and men are second class citizens is ever going to be remotely what either one of us were looking for.

 

Again, thank you all for your responses. Sincerely.

[CandAinDenver 15]

"There's an old saying that goes "the guys get them into swinging, but it's the girls who keep them there". I think what that gets at is it's the women who run the Lifestyle, and when a couple finds a way to swing in a way that makes both of them happy, then often she is the one who really seizes upon that newfound freedom. Not just freedom in physical form of having sex with others, but freedom from the burden that society places on women much more than it does men. "

 

This is a direct quote from another thread, and this is exactly what I'm talking about. For people who revel in traditional gender roles, and genuinely enjoy a male-led household, pardon the colloquial expression, but "this ain't the place for that."

 

I would argue that there is plenty of female centric control of sex lives going on with younger people already; that is the current norm, with most women being far more experienced than their husbands or boyfriends, then gaining control of the reigns through marriage, and after the husband admits he wants to experience a bit of variety, the woman is then in charge of that as well, and he fades

Into the background as she "awakens and recaptures her sexuality from the repressive male dominated patriarchy".

 

Sorry, but that might have been the case a generation or two ago, but for the under 40 crowd, most women have been riding the shit out of the cock carousel for years and years by the time they get married, and their average chump husbands have been wondering what the hell they are supposed to do to ever explore their own sexual desires. It's no wonder cuckoldry is such a big thing; that's about as realistic a fantasy as guys figure they can get.

 

I don't blame women for the state of affairs, I blame the men, and their lack of balls. Again, joining a community that is just further empowering the already sexually over empowered seems like a dumb move for a man with any sense. I'd rather do without side action than enter my marriage into a female centric smorgasbord of cock, where I expose myself to endless competition and am at best a second class citizen. I, unlike most guys these days, had a hell of a lot of power as a single man, and I love my wife more than enough to center that power on her and her alone, but there is no way in hell I'm submitting to this kind of slanted power dynamic bovine manure.

 

In the free range dating singles market, high value males are in charge of it all and do very well, but in the swinger scene, I don't see there being such a thing as a high value male. Nope, not for me.

 

I really do appreciate the eye opening experience though.

[a_d_xxx 663]

@CandA,

 

I don't think anyone here on the board would try to argue that Swinging is for everyone. It is not. It appeals to a wide range of people, but only works for a small subset of those.

 

I would suggest that you continue to explore the idea through conversation and fantasy with your wife. Since the only people that can decide if this is worth pursuing are you two.

 

To be honest though, I have so say I bristled at your characterizations of swinger motivations in your initial post, as they sounded (to me to be) based on flawed assumptions and biased interpretations. You clearly have a specific world view (the use of 'beta nature' as a term that has some valid meaning to you was a giveaway), and this is likely to color what you read and hear, and how you process your experiences.

 

However, and this is important, what works for you and your wife is completely up to you and her to decide, my feelings are completely beside the point. I would just ask that you try avoid projecting your world view onto others, as we likely do not share it. I can completely understand: "Swinging is not for me, because I find the thought of my wife with another man as abhorrent." I cannot abide by: "If you let another man fuck your wife, you are weak/lesser/broken." (I apologize for the paraphrasing if I got it wrong)

 

Ultimately though, and as I said, my feelings are completely immaterial to your decision. However, IMHO, the only way this works is for you two to decide what you want, decide it together, and then if that includes playing with others, seek it in the most honest, straightforward way possible.

 

The Lifestyle is massive and diverse, as I've heard it stated, there is a lid for every pot. If you can clearly articulate what you are looking for, you'll be that much closer to finding it.

 

D

[Bob250 74]

Well, I'm a single guy and have been swinging for a number of years now, my GF used to be a swinger but is no longer interested. WE have a very traditional sexual identity, even a little more so. My GF is submissive to me, and I control our sex life, because that is the way we BOTH get the most pleasure.

So Where does that leave your theories about the LS?

Personally, I think you have only encountered a very narrow group of players, and have formulated your opinions accordingly. Swinging isn't about male or female domination, it is about recreational sexual activities, and there are as many variations as there are swingers. I suggest that before you make sweeping judgements about the LS, you explore a little more.

[econobiker 165]

CandAinDenver,

Thank you for your additional posts to thread. I can understand that being in a work environment that creates sexually charged interactions with women could create potential havoc in your relationship.

Depending on what works for you and your wife, there is no reason that you ~have~ to have reciprocal swapping nor do you have to "endure" having a cuckold male around during your activities. As long as your wife accepts and wants you to have pleasure with other women, then you could easily be the "bull" for swinging hotwives and demand that their husbands never show their faces around you and the hotwife. As written by all those cuckold husbands, the "bull" usually dominates the hotwife, not the other way around, and the hot wife dominates the cuckold husband. And your wife could benefit from the domination of the hotwife in a non physically or sexually direct way such as requiring the hotwife to give tribute to your wife in some way to gain your wife's permission to hook up with you. A myriad of possibilities if one is creative...

 

I also think that I read somewhere about a married bull's actual wife referring to the his outside women/hotwives as "cupcakes" because they're not the "real" full-on cake dessert that his wife is truly for him.

 

In my case, my wife Red has/had given me freedom to play with many women at house parties(which we used to co-host) while she maintained aloof from the action. That was/is her personal choice to allow me freedom to play. Red preferred to voyeur me and the other woman on occasion with no reciprocal swap allowed by Red even if the other woman had a husband or boyfriend. She and I did swap with other couples on occasion but only in private outside of the house parties.

 

One positive item about swinging is the honesty of what each person expects, versus interaction in other venues such as in work environments which can lead to employment issues, lawsuits, loss of income, etc.

 

As others have written, it is up to you and your wife to figure out what works for your relationship. I wish you and your wife luck with working on exploring swinging options and alternatives if that's what you two end up doing.

E

[enhancer 1,586]

No the swing lifestyle is not mainly about cuckloiding and bi women! Although enjoying watching your wife and treating each other as true equals does not equal cuckloiding. There is a huge range of people in the lifestyle with a huge range of reasons for wanting to be there. Just takes time to find the ones that are on the same page as you. Saying that from what you have written on here I don't really think the lifestyle is for you and nothing wrong with that. Good luck to you two regardless of what path you choose.

[Suburbanites 20]

CandA, you've received some very gentle, patient responses above. Consider yourself lucky for not getting flamed. But I'm a little curious as to what makes YOU such an "alpha" male. Are you a starting quarterback in the NFL, or did you play a little football twenty years ago in high school? Do you file a seven-figure tax return every year? Can you bench press 500 pounds? Do you have a ten inch cock? You said you were plugging away at the wrong job for over ten years - doesn't that fact make you a somewhat of a beta male? Personally, we do actually enjoy MFM's, but we have to laugh sometimes at the number of "alpha" males that are so lacking in self-awareness that they are downright delusional.

 

And don't get me started on "male-led households." If my daughter ever comes home with a guy like that, he'll be promptly run over by this beta male's Prius.

[angelkin 1,326]

You've received a lot of thoughtful responses about swinging...I want to address a small subset of people who share partners but may not identify with swinging. Given your description of your traditional gender roles, have you explored the BDSM lifestyle "Taken-in-hand"?

 

While this particular article states the relationship is strictly monogamous, I believe there to be a small segment of people who live this "TIH" lifestyle that enjoy the sharing of wives...a 'tit-for-tat I fuck your wife and I'll let you fuck mine' mindset.

 

Maybe Fetlife has a niche for you?

[couplers 4,724]

.... Everyone is different...

 

Not me; I'm the same.

[CandAinDenver 15]

::Yawns::

 

In response to the gentleman from Chicago who referenced what makes me an alpha male, I never actually called myself that. I said my wife would only be interested in swapping with couples where another alpha male is present. It wasn't a self-aggrandizing, pat on the back to myself, I was referencing her disdain for the kind of guys who in her words "wear women's underwear" and "don't have any balls" (note - if there are any survivors of war injuries or testicular cancer I apologize for this reference. She was speaking metaphorically). I associate her meaning with the kind of guy who gets off on watching guys with huge cocks fuck his wife. I don't have a problem with guys who enjoy that. I think it makes for pretty good porn actually. I just am not that kind of guy. I'm not built like that. I would despise myself if I was like that. I think that's what makes me what I am; I can't tolerate losing. If I don't have what it takes to win I will go home, train, struggle, learn, workout, fight, practice and do whatever it takes to make myself a contender. I might still not win, but I'm not going to just stand back and celebrate my own defeat or jerk off to it. Not judging, just stating how my sense of self worth operates.

 

To answer some questions:

 

I don't have a ten inch cock. I've never seen or heard of a properly measured ten inch cock even on the internet. They don't exist. Prove me wrong. That said, if they ever figure out a relatively safe method to make my cock 10 inches, then yes, I will have it. In the meantime, yes, I like my dick quite a bit. It's a pretty damn nice one, and I wear it with pride. It's my favorite body part without question.

 

No, I'm not famous or super wealthy or a super meathead or a porn star. I'm a well rounded, decent looking guy with some game, confidence, intelligence and luck. Somewhere along the way I figured all of that out and made it work for me. I'm not a one percenter, but I'm in the top ten percent, and that gives me enough pride to set clear boundaries and not tolerate being humiliated under any circumstances. I think that used to just be called being a man, once upon a time.

 

I hope my daughter finds a stand up guy like myself or better when she's ready, unless she likes girls, in which case I hope she finds the best wife out there. Having opinions and a strong sense of who I am and what I want doesn't make me a lousy guy, it just makes me a guy.

 

My wife waited a long time to find "a real man", as she says, and I'm glad to be that to her. I have a feeling we're all going to be seeing a lot more guys like me in the years ahead. There's a demand, and the supply will grow to meet it. Also, if you're gonna go electric, get a Tesla dude. Seriously though, I wish you nothing but the best. Sincerely. I hope you get what you're looking for and that your life works out. We're on the same team.

 

I'll read up on taking in hand.

 

In the meantime, I'm going to go have sex with my wife, and then do some work at my new job. It's true, I wasn't born an alpha guy. I don't have any of those advantages you spoke of.

 

I made myself who I am, and I'll be damned if I'll hand the best part of my life over for nothing.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

"There's an old saying that goes "the guys get them into swinging, but it's the girls who keep them there". I think what that gets at is it's the women who run the Lifestyle, and when a couple finds a way to swing in a way that makes both of them happy, then often she is the one who really seizes upon that newfound freedom. Not just freedom in physical form of having sex with others, but freedom from the burden that society places on women much more than it does men. "

 

This is a direct quote from another thread, and this is exactly what I'm talking about. For people who revel in traditional gender roles, and genuinely enjoy a male-led household, pardon the colloquial expression, but "this ain't the place for that."

 

That quote is mine, so just to followup, I would agree with your response; for those who revel in what you describe, the swinging world of today isn't likely to be one you feel comfortable in. You seem to be more looking for the "wife swapping" era of swinging, which is for the most part long gone and even the term has fallen out of favor among swingers since it implies unequal importance and ownership of one over the other.

 

I would argue that there is plenty of female centric control of sex lives going on with younger people already; that is the current norm, with most women being far more experienced than their husbands or boyfriends, then gaining control of the reigns through marriage, and after the husband admits he wants to experience a bit of variety, the woman is then in charge of that as well, and he fades into the background as she "awakens and recaptures her sexuality from the repressive male dominated patriarchy".

 

The day that what you see as that imbalance of power ends is the day that all those guys stop chasing it...meaning, never. Truth be told, you chased it too. You did things and acted in certain ways thinking thinking that would bring you the most success. You can pat yourself on the back saying you are/were different from the rest, but the truth is, you just have a different strategy. If it's working for you, then great, but if you wanted to prove how in control you are and that you control it and not it controlling you, then until I hear the word "celibate", then I'm not buying it.

 

I don't blame women for the state of affairs, I blame the men, and their lack of balls. Again, joining a community that is just further empowering the already sexually over empowered seems like a dumb move for a man with any sense. I'd rather do without side action than enter my marriage into a female centric smorgasbord of cock, where I expose myself to endless competition and am at best a second class citizen.

 

Competition for what? Competition for having sex with your wife? Is she not going home with you that night, and every other night? You are competing with other guys to have sex with her on nights where you have gone out with the stated purpose of having sex with other people? That seems counterintuitive, and honestly a waste of energy. Just save yourself the time and money and have a romantic evening together.

 

I, unlike most guys these days, had a hell of a lot of power as a single man, and I love my wife more than enough to center that power on her and her alone, but there is no way in hell I'm submitting to this kind of slanted power dynamic bovine manure.

 

Again, I'm not seeing the power here, it sounds to me that just like the guys who you seem to look down upon, you have spent a lot of time and energy in your past chasing it, so which side was really fiddling the tune and which side was doing the dancing? Just because you were more successful than some doesn't mean you still weren't dancing to the fiddle.

 

In the free range dating singles market, high value males are in charge of it all and do very well, but in the swinger scene, I don't see there being such a thing as a high value male. Nope, not for me.

 

Not true at all about the swinger scene. There are high value males, they are just measured by a different yardstick than the one you want to use. High value males are the ones that most "get" swinging. They aren't going to get all pissy about the way of the world (women get more than men anytime they want), they aren't going to get their manly egos bruised when they see their spouse getting pleasure from a dick that isn't theirs, and they don't expect success in modern swinging by pining for the glorious days of yesteryear when things weren't so complicated.

 

The comment a_d_xxx made about swinging appealing to many but only actually working for a few is right on target. It's ok to find something appealing while knowing it's not a good fit for you. Happens to everyone on all sorts of different subjects, and the smart person is the one who can make that distinction for themselves, which I think you are and have. But, trying to project your reasons onto someone else though, that is where things get dicey and it's the unwise person that always looks at and judges others just through the prism of their own assumptions on how THEY would do things.

[Bob250 74]

Not me; I'm the same.

I am more the same, than you are.

[Bob250 74]

That quote is mine, so just to followup, I would agree with your response; for those who revel in what you describe, the swinging world of today isn't likely to be one you feel comfortable in. You seem to be more looking for the "wife swapping" era of swinging, which is for the most part long gone and even the term has fallen out of favor among swingers since it implies unequal importance and ownership of one over the other.

 

 

 

The day that what you see as that imbalance of power ends is the day that all those guys stop chasing it...meaning, never. Truth be told, you chased it too. You did things and acted in certain ways thinking thinking that would bring you the most success. You can pat yourself on the back saying you are/were different from the rest, but the truth is, you just have a different strategy. If it's working for you, then great, but if you wanted to prove how in control you are and that you control it and not it controlling you, then until I hear the word "celibate", then I'm not buying it.

 

 

 

Competition for what? Competition for having sex with your wife? Is she not going home with you that night, and every other night? You are competing with other guys to have sex with her on nights where you have gone out with the stated purpose of having sex with other people? That seems counterintuitive, and honestly a waste of energy. Just save yourself the time and money and have a romantic evening together.

 

 

 

Again, I'm not seeing the power here, it sounds to me that just like the guys who you seem to look down upon, you have spent a lot of time and energy in your past chasing it, so which side was really fiddling the tune and which side was doing the dancing? Just because you were more successful than some doesn't mean you still weren't dancing to the fiddle.

 

 

 

Not true at all about the swinger scene. There are high value males, they are just measured by a different yardstick than the one you want to use. High value males are the ones that most "get" swinging. They aren't going to get all pissy about the way of the world (women get more than men anytime they want), they aren't going to get their manly egos bruised when they see their spouse getting pleasure from a dick that isn't theirs, and they don't expect success in modern swinging by pining for the glorious days of yesteryear when things weren't so complicated.

 

The comment a_d_xxx made about swinging appealing to many but only actually working for a few is right on target. It's ok to find something appealing while knowing it's not a good fit for you. Happens to everyone on all sorts of different subjects, and the smart person is the one who can make that distinction for themselves, which I think you are and have. But, trying to project your reasons onto someone else though, that is where things get dicey and it's the unwise person that always looks at and judges others just through the prism of their own assumptions on how THEY would do things.

I agree with a lot of this post, with the exception of the last paragraph, which seems to me as having the very same judgmental attitude and subjective reasoning as the OP's original post. I think that there has to be some middle ground for all.

[Bob250 74]

No the swing lifestyle is not mainly about cuckloiding and bi women! Although enjoying watching your wife and treating each other as true equals does not equal cuckloiding. There is a huge range of people in the lifestyle with a huge range of reasons for wanting to be there. Just takes time to find the ones that are on the same page as you. Saying that from what you have written on here I don't really think the lifestyle is for you and nothing wrong with that. Good luck to you two regardless of what path you choose.

The first part of this post is great, but the last part makes no sense. On one hand, you say that there is room for many different variations in the LS, but then you judge that the LS is not for this particular OP. Surely there is room for him and his wife and their variation in the LS?

[victoria'dreams 141]

CandAinDenver, tell me if I'm wrong but it seems for you, any husband that would let another man have sex with his wife is not an alpha male. Most of all, you want to be seen as an alpha male/real man/big balls. I say seen, because most of what you write is to prove to us that you are that powerful man type. You are right in a way that many guys will not consider you the same after they fucked your wife. That is very true.

 

I had worried years ago about being seen as a cuckold or hotwife couple, because my wife loves MFM (I love FMF but there are unfortunately very few single girls in this lifestyle and we find them in the 'vanilla' world). Like you, I felt I wasn't a beta guy and as I'm on the dominant side and my wife is submissive. I felt I really needed to make a point to not 'being seen as'. It's a bit like entering a shop and asking for a shirt of your favorite sport team. They don't have it and give you another team to wear. You're outside, you suffer from not wearing what you want, you tell people about it and they answer "Who cares, it's all baseball.". You don't want that, you just want to be sure you get the right tag on you.

 

My tag, it doesn't exist or I just dropped the idea to find a community with people exactly like me. Another image would be a big town called Swing. There is the old historical center with the typical swingers (if it exists), than the bigger center, than the suburbs. I live in Swing's suburbs but so far out that it's almost a field and no one else is there. Still, if someone from a far off land asks me where do I live? I tell that person I'm from Swing so he can see it on the map.

 

What to me makes you a swinger is you and your wife talk, find solutions, about having sex with other people without cheating or lying. That's all it is. Everything else is Vanilla (the huge other town near ).

 

When you go through a profile on the internet to meet someone, and you see someone writing "I've got a great sense of humor and I love to laugh", chances are 95% that that person will be the really boring type with a really bad sense of humor. You are funny by being funny and writing it makes you want to be or at least to be seen as funny. Same as someone that will write "I'm intelligent", I only met really stupid people writing that.

 

You insist so much on the fact that you are the real deal man, then the first thing that comes to mind is that you are not. If you are that guy, be it. Don't care about the view other people here will have. Here people have seen and heard so much they will not judge you if you don't attack them. And in the vanilla world, you won't have to tell anyone you know about what you and your wife do. What's important is the feeling you have about yourself deeply inside. If you feel you are that man, that is what matters. You can prove everyone here anything, but when you'll be naked in a room having sex, seeing or not your wife with someone else, you'll be alone in your head. To feel strong, ready, balanced at that precise time, is what matters.

 

Even if I'm very different than you for many reason there are lots of things that I feel or felt. I was a single guy that had a lot of sex with different women and now I have a wife and I'm a Dad. These days we are in fact, with my wife trying to find solutions for me to be able to have sex with women, without hurting anyone, without me having an affair, not easy but seems we're getting somewhere.

 

One last thing is the potential number of girls you think you could have sex if you weren't married (the number of girls you're missing) and the actual girls you get to bed. I can pick up girls anywhere and mostly I get a really nice feedback from them, many would date me and go further. But most girls you meet are girls that are in a relationship and do not want to cheat, or girls that do not want to have sex with a guy that is married and have kids. It is not easy as you think!

 

I'm going to brag now but take that from a guy that would be the alpha man in your world. I'm good looking, fit, French (not that being French is a good thing, but for the appeal it has on women sometimes), educated, my wife looks like a super model, I'm on of the top 5 persons in the world for my work, I've my own company, I've articles in magazines and dated (very few but) some famous women/celebrities that makes about 100 times my salary and I've a nice cock. Still, I will never call myself or feel I'm a superior male, cause the whole concept of loser and winner is to me just stupid. I'm doubting a lot, unsure about things and that, I believe, is what people find charming about me. If I lose that, I'll be just a boring random guy who thinks he's at the top.

[CandAinDenver 15]

Thank you all so much for your replies and the spirited dialogue. You have genuinely helped me to answer a lot of my questions about swinging, and I feel I can make a much wiser and educated decision about trying this out, which is what I was hoping for.

 

I bid you all adieux.

[Mbgdallas 203]

I just see an alpha male as an ass hole who has so many insecurities that he has to over compensate to hide his insecurities. A real man is aware of his insecurities and faults, can expose them, and use them to his advantage when necessary. He doesn't have to hide them or pretend to be something he is not.

 

Inside I know I am better than every other male out there. (Don't take that too seriously) I am not better physically, smarter, endowed, or richer. I just am who I am and can gain a lot of advantage by others dissing me and not taking me seriously. At that point I can jump up and bite their ass.

 

Would I get every woman I want... No because some want that ass hole alpha male. But the ass hole alpha male doesn't get every woman he wants either because some woman don't like ass holes.

 

Each to their own and bless this world that we are so varied.

[Alura 2,775]

I never questioned my sexuality. I've always known I am heterosexual.

 

I never questioned Mrs. Alura's love for me. I always knew it was complete.

 

Swinging was a lot of fun. Nothing more.

[Eddiem 139]

I have thought long about this as well... While I would enjoy watching my wife being pleasured by an adonis I do get the feeling there are more guys looking to get laid. A friend and veteran of the LS said they always both play with others... For me it is somewhat creepy to see some guy sitting on the bed taking pictures watching his wife get nailed.

[njbm 2,906]

Eddiem, it is pretty nice to see your wife enjoy herself in a way that she could only experience with multiple men working on things at the same time! I do not consider myself a cuckold, because I do not want to be punished over my wife's activities. I just enjoy watching her have fun and I think that she is really proficient.

[Eddiem 139]

Eddiem, it is pretty nice to see your wife enjoy herself in a way that she could only experience with multiple men working on things at the same time! I do not consider myself a cuckold, because I do not want to be punished over my wife's activities. I just enjoy watching her have fun and I think that she is really proficient.

 

Agreed. I am not into the being punished, rape fantasy thing or if the cuck is nasty... more like watching her enjoy herself either in a group or with another male or two... I think she would love it.

[kikonkrome 844]

OK can we just get out the tape measures and check our dick sizes now?...ouch I lose, oh well, too bad, so sad.

[intuition897 2,179]

Oh well shit. He's gone. I'm arriving at this thread too late. Probably just as well because I don't think I could've summed up my thoughts in a very concise way anyhow. I could feel my head starting to spin on my shoulders with some of this gentleman's assumptions. I'll try to voice my thoughts, in case he's coming back, but he's not going to like it.

 

Sir, swinging is not for you. It is for those who:

• really, truly want sexual equality
  
• are comfortable, confident and secure enough in their sexuality and worth as a man to give their wives/girlfriends the freedom to own their own sexuality
  
• are more interested in their partner's pleasure than their own, and are giving this opportunity to their wives/girlfriends as a gift, not as something they ask of them.
  

Perhaps you'll find another couple that would suit you, but mister, let me tell you this: with an attitude like that, you won't find many women interested in fucking you.

 

The truth is, yes, women are more sought after than men, because it's typically easier to talk a man into swinging than a woman. THAT'S why they run the show. Unless women have a damn good reason of their own to get into it, they won't, and then it's just a giant sausage-fest of horny guys with no place to put their dicks. The reason I say you'd have a hard time finding a woman to fuck you (regardless of how attractive you may be), is because assuming a woman's husband is not taking care of business at home (and thus must let his wife get dick elsewhere), or otherwise insinuating his supposed inferiority to your "alpha-male" machismo - because you don't like the idea of your wife screaming her lungs out riding another man's cock - is THE fastest fucking way to turn off a woman in the Lifestyle. Excuse me, but NOBODY talks shit about my husband. I don't care what you're packin'. My husband loves to see me pleasured, whether by him or someone else. But in case you had any doubts, Mr. intuition is definitely genuine alpha, sans the misogyny, and is more than capable of taking care of his own wife...and anyone else's who cares to give him a go. He's just too awesome to keep to myself, is all.

 

Despite your assertions to the contrary, and your excellent command of the English language, if I'm able to accurately read between the lines, I'm just seeing insecurity; you worry about having to "compete", you don't like the idea of your wife actually enjoying sex with someone else, and you feel threatened by gender equality. You are right: you are definitely a minority in the Lifestyle.

 

But I guess, what the hell do I know? I'm a woman. One who obviously doesn't know her place.

[Eddiem 139]

Lots of pent up anger?

He felt left out... I guess in some respects he should be happy as his wife was so attractive that so many wanted to play with her. One thing I have noticed most write about experiences and OF COURSE the other males are always x or xx" large or bigger. Please we do not need the soft porn literotica. :-) Makes one start to wonder if they are really in the LS or they just have a "talent" for the literary.

 

 

 

Oh well shit. He's gone. I'm arriving at this thread too late. Probably just as well because I don't think I could've summed up my thoughts in a very concise way anyhow. I could feel my head starting to spin on my shoulders with some of this gentleman's assumptions. I'll try to voice my thoughts, in case he's coming back, but he's not going to like it.

 

Sir, swinging is not for you. It is for those who:

• really, truly want sexual equality
  
• are comfortable, confident and secure enough in their sexuality and worth as a man to give their wives/girlfriends the freedom to own their own sexuality
  
• are more interested in their partner's pleasure than their own, and are giving this opportunity to their wives/girlfriends as a gift, not as something they ask of them.
  

Perhaps you'll find another couple that would suit you, but mister, let me tell you this: with an attitude like that, you won't find many women interested in fucking you.

 

The truth is, yes, women are more sought after than men, because it's typically easier to talk a man into swinging than a woman. THAT'S why they run the show. Unless women have a damn good reason of their own to get into it, they won't, and then it's just a giant sausage-fest of horny guys with no place to put their dicks. The reason I say you'd have a hard time finding a woman to fuck you (regardless of how attractive you may be), is because assuming a woman's husband is not taking care of business at home (and thus must let his wife get dick elsewhere), or otherwise insinuating his supposed inferiority to your "alpha-male" machismo - because you don't like the idea of your wife screaming her lungs out riding another man's cock - is THE fastest fucking way to turn off a woman in the Lifestyle. Excuse me, but NOBODY talks shit about my husband. I don't care what you're packin'. My husband loves to see me pleasured, whether by him or someone else. But in case you had any doubts, Mr. intuition is definitely genuine alpha, sans the misogyny, and is more than capable of taking care of his own wife...and anyone else's who cares to give him a go. He's just too awesome to keep to myself, is all.

 

Despite your assertions to the contrary, and your excellent command of the English language, if I'm able to accurately read between the lines, I'm just seeing insecurity; you worry about having to "compete", you don't like the idea of your wife actually enjoying sex with someone else, and you feel threatened by gender equality. You are right: you are definitely a minority in the Lifestyle.

 

But I guess, what the hell do I know? I'm a woman. One who obviously doesn't know her place.

[ZoDee 81]

OK can we just get out the tape measures...

Maybe that should be yard sticks or measuring wheels in some cases.

and check our dick sizes now?...ouch I lose, oh well too bad so sad.

Yeah, join the club.

Guess we will just have to go back to having fun with our Beta to Omega friends....

[intuition897 2,179]

Lots of pent up anger?

I don't think so. Shit, I don't know, maybe. I thought I was more indignant than angry. I react pretty strongly to the incredible wrongness of any person suggesting that the genders (or anyone for that matter) are inherently unequal. I tend to be submissive with Mr. intuition, but it's by my choice, not because it's somehow his right.

He felt left out... I guess in some respects he should be happy as his wife was so attractive that so many wanted to play with her. One thing I have noticed most write about experiences and OF COURSE the other males are always x or xx" large or bigger. Please we do not need the soft porn literotica. :-) Makes one start to wonder if they are really in the LS or they just have a "talent" for the literary.

 

I...I don't get this part. Sorry, was this directed at me?

[econobiker 165]

No matter the reasons and motivation behind the OPs questions and follow-up statements, I found the thread to be useful in getting people (mostly us men) to think about and rationally explain their take on several aspects of the lifestyle.

[machiavel55 81]

I just see an alpha male as an ass hole who has so many insecurities that he has to over compensate to hide his insecurities. A real man is aware of his insecurities and faults, can expose them, and use them to his advantage when necessary. He doesn't have to hide them or pretend to be something he is not.

 

a year old thread but a fun one to read great thread.....hey, Mbgdallas, I'm an alpha male!....lol....