She wants a threesome without me but no foursome with me.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Hello all,

 

My wife and I just started swinging. A little history on us, we have been together for quite a few years, about 6 years ago we had a daughter and she had some horrible recovery from episiotomy surgeries, after 3 years the doctor gave the ok to have a normal sex life again, so for that 3 years we grew apart. Anyhow, we have sex but once per month and are getting a lot closer. I have been pestering her to try to get us back to the way we were - but there is friction from her.

 

About 6 months ago one of her casual friends said they were swingers and my wife asked if I was interested. I figured this would turbocharge us getting back on track sexually, a little scared I said yes and a couple months ago we did full swap same room sex.

 

That went great she did him and her but when I tried to do something with my wife, she pushed me away. My real focus for the swing was on my wife - and that hurt, bad. She explained that she felt funny seeing me with another woman. I am not so sure of her answer, might be true and might be a bit of her having her chance to have wild sex and in that picture in her brain I am not involved/invited. I did communicate my feelings to her.

 

Currently we have sex a little more (like once or twice a week) and she actually got fully naked with me, however I was under the instruction to do baby steps, no groping, going down etc. She says that she will slowly start letting her guard down with me as she gets more comfortable. She is still wanting to do the swing thing bigtime, and she wanted to talk to me today about some ground rules, what would be ok, what not. What if they were over and I was out of town, or just out with her girlfriend etc. I stated that she could do whatever she wants with the girl, and nothing with the guy unless I am there. She asked if I was threatened by him, I said no- threatened by you. Since our sex relationship is still on the bottom floor and a healing stage, while the swinger thing she is open to everything. I also said that if our sex life gets to be on the same page as with our friends, then I will be confident and let her do whatever she wants. I was told that what I said was manipulative. She wants an open relationship. I want to be sure that I am not odd man out, or left for dead when she wants to go have sex. Big post, give me some feedback! There is more detail to the story, but what I wrote pretty much covers the bases.

[LadyCleo 16]

Swinging is not a place to be if you two are not secure in your relationship.

It sounds like she's happy to have sex with someone other than you. That is real BIG trouble! It sounds like she is looking for your permission to have sex with everyone but you while staying in your marriage.

Swinging is for the mutual pleasure of BOTH partners. Swinging is supposed to be about sharing pleasures. About becoming more intimate with your spouse, fulfilling fantasies, learning new pleasures from another and then bringing it home to improve on the pleasure. It is not supposed to be you being neglected while she has sex with another man.

I'm sure that there is more to the relationship that you have been able to share on this board. I'm sure that there is a lot of water under the bridge in the 3 years that you did not have any sexual relations with your wife. Maybe some pushing on your part that has made her fearful and pull away from you intimately? Or maybe she has grown apart from you but doesn't have the guts to say that you don't turn her on anymore.

 

STOP SWINGING IMMEDIATELY!

 

You two have a lot of work to do on your relationship and should definately seek that help of a marital and possibly sexual therapist. If you don't, you are headed to divorce court.

 

Good luck to the both of you!

LC

[yawanna 17]

IMHO open relationships and swinging only work when the couple are solid and stable and on the same page, so to speak.

 

We've seen way too many couples get into swinging and have their relationships blow up in their faces because they weren't already good together.

 

I agree. Step back, deal with each other and don't bring other people into a troubled relationship. Fall out hurts, even to bystanders.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Thanks for the input, we have been to a marriage counselor. Things in the past year are night and day better than it was before. However not up to speed before our children came along. And you are definately right about the pressure issue that is made her pull away, I don't know how to fix that other than to ask for sex from her.

 

You are right about the security issue. She is secure with me, and I am not as much, due to us being on the bottom floor in our sex life. I wouldn't have any problems if she was willing to go as far as she did with her friends, but with me. I didn't feel left out when we all were doing stuff together, just when I approached my wife and was pushed away.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Whoops,

 

I wrote

 

"And you are definately right about the pressure issue that is made her pull away, I don't know how to fix that other than to ask for sex from her. "

 

That should read:

 

I dont know how to get past this - other than NOT ask for sex from her and let her come to me. I did this in the past (year or two ago) and frankly, if I didn't ask I didn't get.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Me again,

 

I do want to make clear that we are only swinging with this particular couple, so the talk about an open relationship it has to do with JUST our friends, not anyone that comes along.

[naughty A 23]

...let me see if I understand this...'cause I don't think I do...

 

she wants to have sex with this other couple... (him or her) but not you...

 

uh... something isn't quite right there...

 

and you ... want to have sex with her but not the woman in the other couple? or you're not involved with the swing sessions?

 

I'm sorry but I guess I don't quite get it

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Sorry, to clarify - Two couples, wifes are bi, I and the other fellow are straight. She has sex with him & her, and pushes me away when I want to get involved as a foursome.

[naughty A 23]

so you don't have sex with EITHER of the ladies?

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Yes I did have sex with the other girl. Then it was two on one with my wife, I was asked by the other guy to join in and that is where I was DENIED

[naughty A 23]

sorry to drag this out... with all the questions... but I wanted to be sure that I understood.

 

Is she still having medical problems? pain with intercourse or limited sexual positions or ? Is it penetration she has a problem with... perhaps other forms of sex might be better received?

 

- I know there are certain positions that - I just find painful or too uncomfortable for long

 

how did the other couple react to your wife's behaviour?

 

-- I'd be a little perplexed if it was us. and since I think I'm a considerate person... I would probably switch my attention from wherever to YOU... I don't like people to feel left out or neglected.

 

did you talk to your wife about feeling left out?... I'm sure you did... but if you could try approaching it as a shared experience for both or us...

 

did you talk to the other couple about feeling left out? sounds like maybe the other guy did notice this was happening.

 

Don't know... wish I had something more to offer... I'll give it some thought... or maybe something else...

 

I hate to say this but if the marriage counselling isn't working... maybe this is the beginning of the end... if you know what I mean...

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Wife still has some pain when having sex, I think it is getting better the more sex she has.

 

When my wife pushed me away I left the room a few minutes later to go have a smoke and ponder my thoughts. Our friends both came out (one at a time) and we talked about my feelings. I also said everything to my wife afterwards.

 

Yes, it could be the beginning of the end as you say, the counselor did help - but we stopped going before we even talked about swigning. I want to ride this out and see what happens next, I could just be plain wrong and impatient. If it goes bad, oh well it was already coming that I can live with - since we were in limbo for so many years sometimes you have to fish or cut bait.

 

If it turns out all good and I am just impatient and worsening the situation by pestering sex from my wife all the time, then lesson learned. If I put a stop to it, I have a feeling that we will not progress as a couple (like resentment, etc.)

 

Just wonder how I should go about it..

[Elusive BiFem 70]

I've read this a couple of times and can't quite get all the timelines straight.

Childbirth 6 years ago, episotomy problems for 3 years and no sex? None?

So after the 3 years pass, and you want to resume your sex life, she gives you friction. (I must say, you are a very patient man.)

 

Ok...so after another 2-1/2 - 3 years of this existence with "friction" you are having sex 1-2 times/week when she suddenly wants to swing. Just out of the blue.

 

Swinging takes place with this other couple..."That went great she did him and her but when I tried to do something with my wife, she pushed me away." She explained she felt funny seeing you with another woman...so that is the reason she pushed you away?

 

And this woman that suggested swinging with friends finally got "fully naked" with you but requires you to take baby steps? Your wife of 6 years is finally getting fully naked with you? But wants to swing with others? And will now slowly let her guard down with you? But wants an open relationship? And tells you that you are being manipulative?

 

I'm sitting here shaking my head in amazement...incredulous.

 

I know you came here seeking advice and/or wanting some feedback. But let me ask you...what do you want out of this relationship and what do you think you are getting? Where do you see a relationship like this going? What do you think she really wants out of the relationship?

 

Reading this...just the facts as you presented them...I can't help but believe your wife has some serious issues with ya'lls relationship. I see that you've tried to clarify several different points, but maybe you need to clarify some others so I can make sense of this. I'm like naughty A...this may be the beginning of the end. - EBF

[alabamafuntonig 20]

um what ebf said ....get the doors greatest hits album ........"this is the end my friend the end"

 

It would apear to me that wife wants sex but is limeted on giving to you! if you ask me swinging should be put on hold and a bigger isue like your relationship should be worked on first!

 

something smells rotten its time to air it out!

 

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disclaimer =

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This commentary is provided for the information of board users only. It is not provided with the intention that board users rely upon the information for any purposes. Accordingly, Alabamafuntonig shall under no circumstances be liable for any loss or damage, including but not limited to loss of profits, goodwill,hurt feelings or indirect or consequential loss arising out of any use of or inaccuracies in the information. All warranties express or implied are excluded to the fullest extent permissible by law. All the events and comments depicted in this thread are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Bah! 4th time I have timed out on a big response, at least Igot smart enough to copy my text before I hit the reply button..

 

Elusive you are correct on the timeline and the events to date.

 

Wife would not have (well once over two years ago) sex being totally naked, do the swing thing and she is totally naked there, yes wife and I are still on baby steps afterwards. The first year of our relationship it was normal, after the pregnancy/surgery things went this way.

 

What do I want out of this relationship? I dunno, a wife, love affection. The swing thing is fun, It can go on or stop - doesn't matter much to me - at least today. I want to rekindle what we used to have, lots of playing, foreplay etc. Prolly wont be to the same exitement level as when we were first dating, but on that same track. Wife wants to know how often I want sex, everyday? in amazement. I say, well yes. I am not getting what I want, things are better than before and things take time, maybe I am not patient thinking that our life would keep the pace of the swing thing.

 

This could be the beginning from the end as you say. We have been in limbo for close to 6 years now, I am curious what will happen next and how to proceed. If it is over, then thank god this helps speed that up, if I am wrong - I hope I am..

 

alabamafuntonig - yes things need to be aired out, If I ask I will get a bunch of excuses for this and that, all real & true things, wife is good about being able to change the subject like that.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

To add to all of this, as most of you think "this is beating you in the head like a cast iron frying pan - wake up!"

 

Since her and I talked, we can talk some more - but we will essentially say the same basic thing back and forth, it is probably time for her and I to prove what we say and put this to rest as quickly as possible.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

have you tried a counselor or interventio..n

maybe even a priest! or how about a sabatical a mini seperation!

 

**********

*disclaimer*

**********

This commentary is provided for the information of board users only. It is not provided with the intention that board users rely upon the information for any purposes. Accordingly, Alabamafuntonig shall under no circumstances be liable for any loss or damage, including but not limited to loss of profits, goodwill,hurt feelings or indirect or consequential loss arising out of any use of or inaccuracies in the information. All warranties express or implied are excluded to the fullest extent permissible by law. All the events and comments depicted in this thread are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Did do a counselor before the swinger thing happened, it helped a bit. I am also open to talk with the other couples guy, I hinted about that this week and he is supportive and knows the story.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

um

thinking more on a profestional ....level someone not one the playing feild...

 

 

******************

***DISCLAIMER***

******************

 

This commentary is provided for the information of board users only. It is not provided with the intention that board users rely upon the information for any purposes. Accordingly, Alabamafuntonig shall under no circumstances be liable for any loss or damage, including but not limited to loss of profits, goodwill,hurt feelings or indirect or consequential loss arising out of any use of or inaccuracies in the information. All warranties express or implied are excluded to the fullest extent permissible by law. All the events and comments depicted in this thread are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

You can tell I have nothing better to do today than stew about this.

 

Her background

Before kids lots of sex, foreplay, masturbation together new experiences. After kids no sex, wife throws out the old faithfull vibrator stating that maybe that would help us. didn't work, she masturbates on her own but doesn't fess up to it, I do as well - as I started to feel funny doing it - like it was grossing her out or something. when we did the swing thing, she states that she is an everyday masturbator and she just did it a minute ago in the bathroom. Afterwards I say we only masturbate together, as a though of breaking down this wall between us, hasn't happened yet, but lots of talk like this is where we are going. Swinger friends loaned us a video and she won't watch it with me, I watched part of it on my own and so did she.

 

She just called from going out with her friend to get a navel piercing and stated they were heading to the perv store for some toys/mags and stuff. This is part of my confusion, lots of talk, certian actions but no follow through, we will see what happens over the weekend, I presume nothing.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

alabamafuntonig

 

spell it out for me, I don't get it? "....level someone not one the playing feild."

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Nevermind, I get it.

 

However, he is supportive of situations like the other night when his wife was on her period and he said he would not cross that line. He also brought up on his own about her pushing me away was not right as well. I also have some questions for him since he is quite a bit more experienced than me with swinging. I'll more than likely ask someone else as well - just like I am asking you...

[alabamafuntonig 20]

a shrink....

a marrage counseler

a rabbi

a priest

 

 

******************

***DISCLAIMER***

******************

 

This commentary is provided for the information of board users only. It is not provided with the intention that board users rely upon the information for any purposes. Accordingly, Alabamafuntonig shall under no circumstances be liable for any loss or damage, including but not limited to loss of profits, goodwill,hurt feelings or indirect or consequential loss arising out of any use of or inaccuracies in the information. All warranties express or implied are excluded to the fullest extent permissible by law. All the events and comments depicted in this thread are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[M&B 21]

Speaking not as an expert here, I am curious, none the less.

 

When you said that you have been to counseling, how many visits? Were the visits solo or did both of you go? Over what period of time? What kind of counselor or therapist was it?

 

I had experiences with a counselor when I was married to my first wife. The guy was a true idiot. It was her choice completely. His advice after our first session was trial seperation.

 

I have no doubt that there are a lot of skilled, qualified and caring people in the counseling profession. But, I think that finding a lemon just as likely as finding a good one. Do you feel that you got the kind of help that you were looking for?

 

More importantly- did the two of you go with the desire and intention of finding solutions?

[Guest WantItOnIt]

alabamafuntonig

 

Did you take your pills today, haha! is this true?

 

 

M & B

 

Thanks for the reply We went to a dozen or so visits first together then apart then back together. Last visit together the counselor stated that my wife *could* also be the cause in our marital problems, session ended and my wife couldn't have her say and was pissed. She hasn't been back, however she has done everything since then that the counselor suggested, so there is an effort. I later went back by myself for and ADHD issue I have, finally stopped going - just like you say a lemon.

 

This is a new situation that may require going to counseling again (with someone else, of couse). From past experiences if I would stop in my tracks and say everthing stops until we fix each other we would quickly go into stalemate. Again that is why I am going to wait it out and see what pans out.

[M&B 21]

Well, with a dozen or so joint visits and single visits, it sounds as though a real effort was put in by all three of you. Just keep in mind that you have to "click" with the therapist, or else, no no benefit can be expected.

 

I sure hope that your continued patience can pay off. I know that it must be frustrating.

 

But, I do have to wonder. If, as you said, the counselor has implied that your wife "could" be the cause, if there isn't enough truth in that to force decisions. If she isn't willing to consider returning to therapy, be it with the same person or someone new, if the time you spend waiting isn't just allowing the rift to widen.

 

You can always keep paying out more rope. But, a person can hang him/herself with a short or long rope.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Wife could be *participating* in creating/keeping problems yes.

 

It is very frustrating, I hope too patience will pay off in one way or another.

 

Counselor thing again might not be a bad idea.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

alabamafuntonig

of course i took my pills....3 red ones 2 yellow ones and a blue..one...ah shit i was supposed to take 3 yello 2 blue....

 

-----------------------------------------------------

on a serios side how about a marriage retreat like a week thing ....just a thought!

 

 

******************

***DISCLAIMER***

******************

 

This commentary is provided for the information of board users only. It is not provided with the intention that board users rely upon the information for any purposes. Accordingly, Alabamafuntonig shall under no circumstances be liable for any loss or damage, including but not limited to loss of profits, goodwill,hurt feelings or indirect or consequential loss arising out of any use of or inaccuracies in the information. All warranties express or implied are excluded to the fullest extent permissible by law. All the events and comments depicted in this thread are fictitious. Any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental.

[OhioCouple 41]

OMGoodness.... I've just read this thread for the first time.

 

WantItOnIt, Please, please take a step back from all swinging activities and concentratre on your marriage. Maybe it will or maybe it will not work out for the two of you (I wish for you the best) , but you shouldn't be involving others in this mess. Speaking from experience, getting entangled in others marital/relationship problems is a hard road to travel.

 

Consider getting back into counseling with your wife, if she refuses to go...my advice is cut your ties, NOW.... for the sake of all of you. Just remember to always keep your children, first and foremost.

 

Mrs. O

[Brit_Pair 62]

Having read the full thread, we'd endorse Mrs O's input. The alarm bells your inputs have triggered are deafening.

 

No matter how tempting it might be to keep swinging with "just this one couple", resist it. Concentrate on your marriage. You shouldn't be involving others in your sex life if the two of you alone aren't on completely solid ground.

 

If you want your marriage to work, if you really want to be with this woman, and there's a chance that things can work out, then keep working at it. But if your gut instinct is that your wife doesn't have the same commitment to the relationship that you do, or you're still working at it because it's what you think you should do, rather than what you want to do, then it may be that - given how long this whole situation has been going on - you have to consider moving on for your own piece of mind and quality of life.

[Additude 457]

First off I will say that I am sorry for what is happening to you. This is not normal relationship activity. Your wife is leading you on and is hanging on to you for some reason, however I do not feel it's for loving emotional support. Maybe it's your bank account, maybe it's your security, maybe it's out of fear of family reprisal if she gets a divorice. But who knows, these are just guesses.

 

One thing is certain, you are being used and led like a puppy on a leash. It's time to start drawing lines and stop being a "Yes" man. You need to ask some serious questions, and get some serious answers. No BS stuff like, "Maybe I'll feel more close and sexual towards you later after I am through Fucking the neighbor".

 

That doesn't cut it. You say your wife is a master of subject change...I say she is only that if you allow her to change the subject. If you accept answers like she is giving you then you have no room for complaint. Your the fool and your allowing yourself to be the fool.

 

Of course there are always 2 sides to every story and we have only heard one. Therefore my response is one sided.

 

I know what ADHD is. My last wife had it big time and some of your recounts about your time in the counselors office is so reminiscent of the times I spent in counseling with her.

 

But the bottom line is do YOU want to continue this way with your wife and your life? If you do, then that's fine, if you don't then you need to change it by the way you react to her and what she says, or you need to just get the hell out of Dodge.

 

A test is that most times, the emotions will change to a positive flair if they are confronted with the fear of loss. If she doesn't care if she looses you, then she will respond accordingly....and the same if she does care.

 

You need to put her to the test and get some answers to your questions.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

It's not uncommon for major medical problems to kill a marriage. It honestly sounds to me like that may be the case here. The two of you are comfortable together but I don't think she is really IN love with you anymore. Sex with you is more of a requirement of her marriage obligations than something she wants. Whereas she can easily enjoy sex with other people.

 

I have to agree with those who have said STOP SWINGING. As someone who is in the midst of a divorce myself I can see some parallels there. Work on your own marriage first. If these friends of yours are really friends they will understand your need to do this. In fact, I would think they would see the problems and back off on their own.

 

GO back to marriage counseling and don't stop until either you are both happy and on common ground.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Thanks everyone for you great input. It is true that I am not getting what I want sexually from my wife. The more I think about it, she has only really pursued me once to have sex with her that was a couple months ago, it was great. A couple other times we were having a date night at home with some drinks and she gave me head for about a minute, I couldn't do anything with her, as she says that she wants to be the aggressive one - I don't think that is working for her. She talks a lot of talk, but fails to come through. She talks about swinging again every single day since then, however she is uninterested in sex with me - if she gives in, it has to be missionary and "hurry up". She states that she will let me go down on her but she needs to be a little tipsy, anytime I bring it up I get the "pretty soon" or when I feel more comfortable.

 

The more I think about her ground rules question the more the real picture shines through. She stated "what if I am with her in the bathroom, or with him - can I do anything, what if they come over and you are not there, etc. After I said what makes me uncomfortable, she says that is manipulative. She wants an open relationship, and that all 4 of us would be together 99% of the time when we see this couple(sex or not). She states that she wants us all to be together, but her questions prove that she wants to be able to have privacy to do her own thing.

 

This week when our swinger friends came over to dinner my wife would dissapear with each one of them for a few minutes in another room, nothing happened but that exact situation (asking, what if we were in the other room or something - can I do anything?) she questioned me about came up.

 

Last night she was over at their house and she called me on the phone, I said she could do whatever she wants - thinking that, I dunno what I was thinking. Nothing happened (because the other girl was on her period) her husband won't do anything without her, and that is why I presume nothing happened.

 

You are right about stepping back from swinging until we iron out this situation. I don't really know what to say that wont come off in a bad tone, I want it to be a positive thing. Maybe I should say that once we can have sex like we do with our swinger couple on a regular basis rather than maintenance - we can talk about doing it again. Maybe a sex therapist is in order too.

 

Thanks again all!

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Dude, I hate to say this, but your marriage, such as it is, is as fucked up as a football bat. And assuming that we are getting the straight skinny from you on what has been going on, it's your wife's fault.

 

First off, this business of the episiotomy problems does not compute. Any gynecologist worth his or her salt should have been able to correct any problems along these lines long ago. Especially after three damn years.

 

And she's able to have sex with other people, but not you? She was using a vibrator and even now masturbates every day? Clearly her libido is operational, and if she can have regular sex with the other guy, there's no reason why she can't with you, unless there's some kind of major size mismatch between you and the other guy.

 

And she won't have a straight conversation with you about all these goings on? Additude is right; she's leading you around by the nose, son, and you are letting her do it.

 

First thing right off, the swinging stops. If she gives you any grief about it, then I'd tell her it stops or don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out, and don't come back.

 

Next, both of you need to get to work on your marriage NOW. That means straight talk from both of you. No "changing the subject" or any of that rot. Get down to cases. If you need a therapist, find one. Yes, it can be difficult, in that it's often hard to find a therapist that you both click with (and you do have to have some kind of affinity for the therapist if it's going to work), but keep looking until you do. Again, assuming you are giving us the straight story on what's been going on, she is the one who has some serious issues to deal with.

 

That is, if she's interested in staying married to you. Because if she's not, then it's time for you to cease wasting your life on this bitch, and show her the door. I know that divorce, especially with kids involved is difficult, but from what you describe, you don't have a marriage to start with. And believe me, where women are concerned, there are plenty more where she came from. And some of them will actually be interested in a real marriage, not this "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is negotiable" bullshit she's been handing you.

 

In any case, I hope things work out for you.

 

-- Bear

[Guest WantItOnIt]

The initial episiotomy failed, so did the second third forth, fifth and finally the sixth one took, it took 3 years for them to get it right, all different doctors except for the guy who really fixed it, he did the surgery twice.

 

She does have sex with me, but it aint much nor often. And yes, if she can do everything with someone else, there's no reason she can't with me.

 

She is good and controlling the conversations, she gets frustrated and tells me it hurts, gives me the gory details of how it hurts, then she is tired, and why she is so tired there are several others as well - all real reasons, but it is like crying wolf everytime. Basically she answers only part of the questions.

 

I have tried to portray this as well as I can from both sides, obviously her story has merit too.

 

The only other thing I would add is that the past couple years I have been in a deep depression and have been taking everyone down with me, which is another reason for her friction. I have been working hard as hell all year on it and I have turned around.

 

It just seems like it never works for us to be both on the same page.

[alabamafuntonig 20]

well you can sink or swim trust me i know.. i worked it out on my end and she on hers ! it takes two to tango and 2 to have a relationship! trust me getting depressed is the worst thing to do ..i did it and it was not fun! sometimes i felt that the bottle was my only friend, but then i seeked advice ,listend and took what was offerd me ! its not all black and white in relationships and grey areas are plenty ~! but on the other hand not all problems have solutions and sometimes we have to seperate our love for some one and the love we have for our self! its no fun being in love with someone that does not recipricate it back in a way that is needed ! hed our warning and take advice with a grain of salt but please what ever you do ! do what you know you should ,think,plan and carry out what needs to happen or you will be misrible for the rest of your life...

[OhioCouple 41]

WantItOnIt:

 

It pains me to say this, but ya'll have some very serious problems. Remove the fact of swinging for a moment. Your personal relationship is in serious trouble. Please listen to what Bear had to say. He hit the nail on the head, in my opinion.

 

Mrs. O

[mde 4764 15]

Based on what you have said here, I can't believe you are still married to this woman. There is one possibility that no body has touched on. She could be blaming you for all the pain she endured with the repeated surgeries. ( Her reasoning, "it was having your child that caused her physical problem.")

 

As for her still having pain during sex, I don't believe that BS for a minute. She can go fuck the neighbor and not complain of pain and wants to go back and do it again. It doesn't sound to me like she is having pain. She is using that as an excuse to not have sex with you.

 

You need to sit her down and talk. Don't allow her to change the subject or sidestep the questions. You also need to ask yourself some honest questions about what you want and why are you hanging on. If you have been dealing with this problem for this long and it hasn't gotten significantly better, which it doesn't appear to have, then I don't think it is going to.

 

I don't think a marriage counselor is the answer. I think you wife has some deep seated psychological problems that she needs help with and a marriage counselor is not trained to deal with those kind of problems.

 

I feel for you. I stayed in an unhappy marriage for a number of years thinking and hoping that things would get better. Nothing got better and I finally said enough. That was the best thing I ever did for myself. I've remarried and have a wonderful life with a beautiful wife.

[Guest WantItOnIt]

We have had our good times and bad, other than the sexual thing our relationship is great. We talk all day together over the phone on work days. The reason I am hanging on? I love her, there is always talk of things going better and every once in a while progress is made.

 

Other issues like our work schedule and kids, I work during the week and she works on the weekends and a couple nights, so time together is restricted to the house at night - mostly doing the family thing. Wife is trying very hard on her own to make a day or two a month free for us all to be together. We don't do babysitters, unless family members come in from out of town and watch the kids for the evening. We are working on finding a sitter so we can have a life too.

 

The most we have done during those times is hanging out with our swinger friends. Good friends to the both of us and it is truly fun playing pool and having a good time. It is also outside of our house/family situation. I also think that her wanting to swing with them, and asking questions about doing stuff with them when no-one is around is brought on by the fact another lifestyle is available outside of home, and I equal home (since we don't do much out of the house).

 

Perhaps we need a retreat just for the two of us to rekindle things. Perhaps the thought of sex with me is just not there anymore, I guess I cannot be scared anymore and go with the flow becuase I know that I am setting myself to get hurt (and already feeling this way). Time to get to the bottom of this!

[Guest WantItOnIt]

Just thought of a couple more things to say.

 

Wife states that she does not want to feel pressure from me to have sex. Honestly I ask every single day and it has definately put her on the defensive. She states that she does not want to feel like she has to perform or else - that would make me feel uncomfortable too That statement seems fair enough, however it shouldn't be the gateway to avoiding the problem all together.

 

It seems that avoidance is the easy avenue to take for the both of us as I reread all yours and my postings.

 

Do you have any suggestions that I could try to rekindle things? Obviously the pestering needs to stop, and I have to learn to read the signals (stupid stuff like being playfull when we cannot do anything - like while getting ready for work and running late, or she had a tired and stressful day not to push it). She and I have been a lot more intimate outside of sex, snuggling, complimenting each other etc.

 

So paritally it seems like we are starting off on a good path, but this 3 years of rebuilding is tiring - and messed up if she can let it all loose with another person. I am surprised I haven't got the guts up yet to REALLY make some headway, I am also surprised that I will not & have not cheated in this relationship given all the time, false hopes and letdowns.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

WantItOnIt,

 

I understand about the depression thing; been there, done that. It's a royal pain in the ass, and that's a fact. And I also know about conflicting work schedules (Bunny can tell you all about that... and how it can upset cuddle time and the like. However, I, for one, can't get past the fact that she's (as mde4764 put it) still wanting to fuck your friends, but not you. And that she seems to manipulate the conversation to her advantage whenever you try to discuss it with her.

 

Yeah, you've got some issues, too, it would seem. And you are like the rest of us married guys, in that getting a bit nooky now and then from Ms. WantItOnIt should not require an act of Congress.

 

However, you ARE a married couple; at least that is what the marriage license says. And while you can't have a marriage based solely on sex, you damn sure can't have one without it, either.

 

And I also understand that you love her. But the fact is that if this issue is not dealt with, and soon (and this means wifey getting her head out of her ass and realizing that YOU are her husband and #1, first, last and always bed partner, not Joe Stud and his always-wet-and-tasty wife down the street, then you are going to end up with some serious resentments of your own, directed towards HER. That is, if this has not already started. And those resentments can be sudden death to a marriage also, take my word for it.

 

So, again, forget the swinging. Now. And get her some help. Finally, if she is unwilling to comply with these two actions, then it's time for you to leave, as she is no longer a wife to you, nor you a husband to her (not that you don't want to be, but she is not allowing it). Right now, you are just a meal ticket/room mate to her, and not much else.

 

-- Bear

[hotcpl4fun 15]

Yes I did have sex with the other girl. Then it was two on one with my wife, I was asked by the other guy to join in and that is where I was DENIED

 

 

 

It would have stopped right then!! There is definitely something wrong here and like previous posters have said "this lifestyle is not the place for cpls that are unsecure in their marriage. Just our opinion:rolleyes:

[wrnakedru 38]

A thought occurs ....

 

Do you know the difference between a whore and a bitch?

 

A whore fucks everybody. A bitch fucks everybody but you.

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Say, WantItOnIt...has it occurred to you that you are like a flounder swimming upstream in this relationship?

 

Swinging is the last thing you two need to be thinking about right now - both for the sake of your own marriage as well as the involvement of whomever you choose to swing with. I can't even begin to imagine why your friends would even consider furthering a swinging relationship knowing the current status of the relationship you and your wife have. I'm not married...but I guarantee...if I was and my spouse had dismissed me in a swinging situation the way you describe...Whoa! there would have been hell to pay and that would be the last time swinging was discussed!!

 

Everyone has problems from time to time...physical and emotional. When that stuff happens in our lives, most of us tend to believe we need to back off from the extra-curricular activities of life and concentrate on the things we hold near and dear. As a rule, we don't go out trying to create additional discord for ourselves or our partners. Not unless we just simply don't give a crap about our partner and some of this stuff (episiotomy pain, etc.) is being used as a mere excuse to avoid the emotional and physical responsibilities of marriage.

 

This has been going on for 3 years. You've had counseling. Nothing has helped...so you say. Either find another counselor (and no, they are not one-size-fits-all)...or if neither of you are agreeable to making the sacrifices (and yes, I mean sacrifices) that counseling requires, you need to find a good attorney. Swinging is about relationships. Your writings do not sound like there is a real relationship here.

 

One of your other lines...about being surprised you haven't cheated, etc....it struck me that you might be trying to seek approval for cheating. Don't know...the thought just crossed my mind.

 

Don't mean to sound harsh...just realistic. - EBF