Lost and confused...

[Lost_in_PA 15]

So my husband came to me letting me know that he is Bi... and would be interested in swinging and I am trying like hell to understand. It isn't something I have someone to talk about. Feeling just alone. I express my concerns and he is very sweet and wonderful saying "we never have to do anything" and seeing my concern and that in short -freaking me out changes subject to some extent.

 

I love him more than I can express in words... It's why I am here. I am trying to understand but I don't and I really want to... I don't really watch porn I look at the stuff he looks at on tumbler and idk most just scares me. Girls on all 4s blowing one dude while another dude is fucking her from behind... I see that and think "how is she even enjoying that?" I love sex... but any type of a 69 is weird I'd never get off unless hour or more later cause thinking about what I am doing than enjoying what is happening to me. Two guys? I am plus size... seems like that would just me ackward... He says he likes seeing me pleasured but most sexual encounters I have had took me a while to get off lots of faking... simply took me time to get comfortable with that person and or our relationship to enjoy sex trully... getting off with someone the first time? ahhh.... maybe 3 out of 30 partners?

 

Then to even think of someone else touching him, I just relate to him cheating... I just see myself crying to watching that.

 

My question, idk... what do I do? I want him happy.... I want to be happy... I don't really know how both of us can be. Though again as wonderful as he is he says nothing needs to happen and he loves me and is happy. I know he is curious. IDK... help?

[SW_PA_Couple 4,026]

First, what happens with actual swingers is nothing like what is depicted in porn.

 

Second, coming to a realization of bisexuality is not connected to swing. Sounds to be that these two declarations arriving at the same time is simply a coincidence.

 

Third, there is no reason for you to do anything that you find distasteful.

 

Last, do some reading here at Swingersboard. Many people gain pleasure from swing. Decide for yourself.

 

Glad you've come here.

 

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Sorry that something that is causing you so much distress is what brought you here, but Welcome to the Swingers Board.

 

Before I had even finished reading your post and then saw SW_PA's response, what was running through my mind was the same thing - swinging isn't porn, bisexuality doesn't automatically equal swinging, and you are obviously uncomfortable with everything that you mentioned but are still taking the time to try to investigate it for yourself, which says a lot of positive things about you. Expanding on those thoughts...

 

Does swinging sex have a porn flavor to it? It can. Porn is fantasy, and in some cases and for some people, those fantasies have become reality. What other people may like to do is irrelevant though, it's all about what you like to do. If a MFM threesome doesn't interest you, then that doesn't automatically disqualify you from anything. For every swinger sex act you see that has the porn feel, there are many, many more that don't have any resemblance to porn whatsoever. It's just everyday people having everyday sex; no contortions, diagramming it out, or choreographer required. Too, orgasms aren't the measuring stick by which each swing encounter is measured. The feeling is hard to explain, but swinging is something shared...shared between spouses, shared between playmates. When you hit that right chemistry where everyone involved feels that, then it is something special, and whether there was an orgasm involved doesn't mean you will or won't have that feeling. I should add too that there are a lot of "friends first" swingers who like to build some connection before the clothes come off. In fact, if forced to pick a label, that's the one we would use for ourselves. How long it takes for that connection to be made can vary, maybe just an hour, maybe multiples meets, but we do need to feel the connection.

 

I can understand how someone in your husband's position could see swinging as a safe outlet for newly recognized and/or accepted feelings. In a way, it does make sense. Truth be told, there are really only three choices here - don't act on the bisexual feelings, maintain the relationship with some element of openness or swinging to it, or end the relationship.

 

BUT, swinging as a couple where both aren't on board with the idea does NOT make sense, and won't work for long if at all before some real harm can be done. If it is something you want to continue to explore and learn about to see if your opinions or interest level changes, then by all means do so, no harm in that, but please don't do something you remain strongly and adamantly opposed to.

 

We wish you the best in trying to work through this, it's a tough situation.

[kikonkrome 844]

How often do you have sex?

Do you think you have a low sex drive?

Do you fantasize about sex?

Do you think you and your husband have compatible sex drives?

How long have you been married?

 

I am a little confused but it seems like you married a man without being fully aware of his and your own sexuality. Time for your guys to have a long talk.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

Lost_in_PA, I'm sorry that these unhappy circumstances are the thing that's brought you here to SwingersBoard, but hopefully it will help you to be here.

 

Your husband has given you quite a lot to think about all at once.

 

You've already gotten some advice, so I will just tell you a couple of things about swingers, so you'll understand the motivations and relationship effects that swinging has for those who do it successfully.

 

First, it is a cardinal rule of swinging that people should never feel pressured into doing anything they don't want to do. In any new activity, new place, new people, there is always a little bit of uncertainty, maybe trepidation about an unknown- butterflies. I think that is NOT what we are talking about here. From what you're saying it sounds clear that you are simply, definitely not interested in trying any kind of swinging activity- for you or for him. Now that should be the bottom line, and the end of the story- if you don't want it to happen, it doesn't happen! I think most people in the lifestyle would fully endorse that way of thinking- no one wants to contribute to a couple's problems, after all.

 

Second, I want to tell you that most swinger couples and, I'd wager, all of the healthy ones, have relationships that are characterized by excellent communication. They are willing and able to talk to their spouses, openly and honestly, about their fantasies and desires, but also their fears and insecurities. They are able to discuss things, even things they may disagree about, while maintaining basic respect for each other, and acknowledging and valuing each other's opinions and feelings. It sounds to me like you two have just taken an enormous, risky-feeling leap in the direction of open communication about his fantasies! Now I hope you will also honestly share your feeling with him as well, as it sounds like you have already begun to do. This open communication serves to strengthen a relationship, and I'm hopeful that, even if you two never act on his fantasies, there will still be a net benefit to your relationship by virtue of opening the door to a kind of intimate communication you will need to work through this.

 

Third, I would like to try to explain why people in the lifestyle do not consider what they're doing to be cheating. For those who have a high comfort and trust level in their relationship, excellent communication (see above), and a sexually adventurous spirit, swinging can be a bold, exciting adventure, a journey that a couple takes together, and which actually brings a couple closer together for sharing the experience. I will tell you that every one of us who entered the lifestyle as a couple went through the trepidation of that first time, wondering whether we would be OK watching our spouse in the throes of passion with another person, not sure if it would trigger an intense jealousy reaction. In my case (this is Mr. CoupleInMD79, by the way), when I saw (and heard) my wife having sex with the other guy for the first time, I was not jealous at all! It was a turn-on to see, yes, but also there was this unexpected feeling of being just plain happy for my wife, proud of her for being so bold, and genuinely glad that she was enjoying herself. I knew she was coming home with me, and to me, so I was not worried about that. It really has brought us closer together. Incidentally, we pick up techniques from our spouse's play partners as well, so it improves our sex life at home, too.

 

Finally, I want to echo what cplnuswing said about swingers wanting to be friends with the people they play with. This is not a universal thing in the lifestyle community, but it's much more the rule than the exception. Most everybody who my wife and I have played with are people we developed a level of friendship with first. In fact, I would count some of my swinger friends among my closest friends overall. That said, I want to also make it clear that, on the whole, swingers keep their relationships on the "friends with benefits" level, and do not develop romantic feelings for those they have sex with. We may be close friends, as I believe we are with some of our lifestyle friends, but it does not go beyond that to romantic feelings.

 

I hope these ramblings make some sense to you. I encourage you to bring your husband over here to this site, and for you two to read this thread and other information together. Talk about it, and ask us more questions. We wish you two good luck!

[angelkin 1,326]

Enough really good advice has been given - but I wanted to add a snippet...Have the two of you considered adding some simulated bi play in your own bedroom? I mean, there's sex toys for that

 

Further, what degree is he bi? The things you said he watches don't sound bi to me, but simply adventurous. Bi has a scale. What sort of things does he want to do with another man? Kissing, oral, top or bottom? Discussing and exploring his fantasies might give you a deeper understanding and appreciation.

 

He has shared this deeply personal thing with you - entrusted you with a secret. While it has caused you some distress, imagine how the reaction has affected him too.

 

I'd recommend taking swing completely off the table and dealing with one issue at a time here. First deal with this revelation that he's interested in men. Dissect it, understand it, live with it a while - then consider how to move forward together in a way that's fulfilling to both of you as a couple.

[ncmd_couple 597]

Lost,

 

Welcome to Seinger's Board! Lots of good advice above. Bi feelings don't happen overnight. This probably goes back to when he was a young man. I would suggest that you table swinging for now and just talk to him about the Bi issue, learn the history, what his desires are, and go from there. There are a lot of folks here with different experiences that possibly can help you as you work through it, so don't hesitate to ask more questions here in the future.

[Lost_in_PA 15]

Just to answer some of the questions... as often as we can we both love sex... we have kids both from previous relationships and together and sometimes that gets in the way. When we we get time every other day. If time at work with kids minimum once a week. We both need/want it. Fantasies? Ah not much to be honest -which feel like is a big disappointment for him. He thinks about it more often. Sometimes I have "swinging" fantasies like some one watching or others touching me as he pleasures me. BUT I fear the realization of all that when I think about it would scare me to death. We been married 3yrs. Someone asked about sex toys... yes we have/used sex toys - have some anal plugs, dildos... ised mostly during oral play and personally perfer his hand to a dildo when he is eatting me out

[MarniJohn 172]

Hi Lost,

Sorry as well to hear that it is something negative that brought you to the board. However, I do think people here offer some very solid advice to feel free to keep asking!

Personally, before swinging, I also thought it was crazy and distasteful. What helped was going to a swing club with my husband with the understanding that it was only to see what it was about. We had a drink and danced a little and mostly just observed the people. We went back a few times before I started to feel very comfortable because everyone was so friendly! We eventually made our way into the back room, again, just to observe. It took about one year for me to feel bold enough to let someone touch me. It is a process and if you take it slowly, you might discover how much you really love sex in an environment like this. It is very liberating! You might even open up to the idea of watching someone touch your husband! It is not as scary as it sounds. Trust me, I've been there. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[GMOFLEISURE 221]

More than anything else you and your husband have a lot to talk about, & sooner rather than later. Since he did not share his bisexuality or other items before marriage I have to wonder what else he might be holding back. Maybe you are comfortable with secrets and important unknowns, some people are. For most marriages its not a good thing.

[windsor4fun2 130]

More than anything else you and your husband have a lot to talk about, & sooner rather than later. Since he did not share his bisexuality or other items before marriage I have to wonder what else he might be holding back. Maybe you are comfortable with secrets and important unknowns, some people are. For most marriages its not a good thing.

 

I would not immediately assume he was keep secrets. His bisexuality may be something he has only recently admitted to himself.

[CAgirlinIL 18]

Everyone had said some really great things, I just wanted to add a little from my own experience.

 

We've been married 16 years & just in the past 8months have we finally opened up about our sexual fantasies. And we talked for so long before acting on anything. But just having those conversations, being as open as we ever had been, brought our marriage to this wonderful level it had never been before. Single best thing we ever did for our marriage.

 

When we finally got around to finding another couple to play with (which was like 4 months later) I was so nervous! I had all these preconceived notions of what I would like & what I wouldn't. And then I got there, in that situation, and it was so much better. The four of us naked in this room & my insecurities about my imperfect body were gone. No one is perfect & to have another man be attracted to me & want me like that is a pretty heady feeling. I also wasn't sure how I would feel watching my husband with someone else, but it was okay. I knew at that point our marriage was solid, no need to be jealous.

 

I would just recommend to keep talking. Don't do anything until you feel solid. But try to keep your mind open and be totally honest.

 

But adding what has become our boyfriend & girlfriend to our marriage has been one of the better things we've ever done.

[AskMeOk 148]

That is a lot to process at one time! It appears to me that you need to come to terms with two things..... and I think, maybe, in a particular order:

 

1) First, since it looks like y'all have good communication, keep talking about the bi-thing. Try to understand that, in the context of your relationship. There are some, here, that can probably explain how they got through it.... and that may help.

 

2) Swinging. Again, this is all about communication and I believe you need to talk about fantasies, his and yours. This is much easier than #1, because you can just go to a swing club and watch. There is no pressure nor expectation that you participate. It is totally OK if you folks want to just watch or, maybe (if it seems right) to play only with each other and let others just watch. Seeing is understanding and just looking at the sights and sounds of the club can be instructional. That will give you a basis for further discussion. Familiarity with what really goes on will take away some of the fear of the unknown.

 

Don't lose sight of the fact that this is (or should be) an adventure undertaken by you both.... if you decide to pursue it....

[intuition897 2,179]

Welcome to the board, Lost.

 

It sounds to me like there are a few issues going on that need to be addressed: 1) dealing with your husband's revelation that he's curious about other men, 2) finding middle ground in your sexual interests, and 3) exploring the possibility swinging...which is pretty much the only way to actually allow your husband to satisfy his curiosity for real short of ending your relationship.

 

First of all, his coming to you with this secret about his sexuality is a big deal. It couldn't have been easy for him to bring this to you, so do acknowledge this if you haven't already. As he has stated, he doesn't need to do anything about it, just the same as he doesn't need to do anything about his attractions to other women. That's sort of the expectation in a standard monogamous marriage, yes? The rules don't need to change just because he's attracted to someone of the same gender. So believe him when he tells you this.

 

I understand, however, that you are feeling pressure - pressure that you have put on yourself - because you love him and want him to be fulfilled and happy. Ultimately, regardless of your desire to make him happy, it is irresponsible to give in to this pressure if it results in your being injured psychologically, emotionally or spiritually. If the activity makes you feel dirty, betrayed, unclean, abandoned, or low in any way - or if it causes you to lose love or respect for your husband - you absolutely should NOT engage in it. End of story. If you are looking for the rationale for declining, this is it.

 

Just because you say no right now does not mean no forever. You can explain that your comfort level does not allow you to move forward on this right now, but you are willing to learn more about it. He will need to be very patient.

 

As for your libidos and/or senses of sexual adventurousness meeting in the middle, I can't offer much advice there that doesn't sound like it's coming from Captain Obvious: he needs to slow up a little, you need to be find ways to release your inhibitions. This could be one of the reasons he's attracted to swinging: he wants to see you in the throes of ecstasy, and it doesn't need to be him doing it to you. He just wants to see you happy and fulfilled, too. If you have to fake it, that obviously defeats the purpose, but you mentioned being curious about swinging as a fantasy. Examine why that interests you and find safe ways to explore that in the real world. For example, taking note of when the other person is attracted to the waiter/waitress, the sales person, somebody walking through the mall, etc. Ask one another, and answer honestly. Talk about why you're attracted and how you each feel about it.

 

As for actually swinging, I wouldn't jump right into that just yet without resolving the aforementioned issues first. You can order The Swinger's Manual from Amazon (link on the main page I believe), written by our own JustAskJulie. It's kind of the go-to primer on all things swinging, gleaned from years of advice traded on this message board. This helps explain the mentality behind swinging, who does it, why they find it an attractive option, how they deal with jealousy, etc.

 

I will tell you a secret. The most amazing thing I have discovered so far in the lifestyle is that all the pain we feel - the jealousy, sense of betrayal, low self-esteem, etc. - is self-created. Monogamously-wired people have value for monogamy, and see physical intimacy as a yardstick by which they measure the health of their relationships. Swingers do not value physical intimacy this way; we value honesty and emotional intimacy. Anyone can give my husband physical pleasure, and that's a hard, cold fact. I am not special to him in this way. I am, however, the soul that he loves, and in that way I am irreplaceable. I have no competition, and so he is free to enjoy the pleasures of touching other people, which makes me very happy for him.

 

There is a small sadness in having to let go of that old paradigm, because once you unbelieve it, you can't really go back. But for us, the mourning period was short, and we embraced the new value system. We've never looked back.

 

Long-winded. Sorry. Hope this helps somewhat.