Our two biggest fears

[NaughtyNaughty 25]

This may be covered somewhere else, but I haven't been able to find the topic yet...

 

Whereas I, Mr. Naughty, am more willing to take measured risks for fun (skydiving, downhill mountain biking, etc...); my better half, Ms. Naughty, is more cautious. The thought of sharing sex with others is exciting to her, but she fears two things... 1) How often do play partners fail to keep the LS secret for you? She's worried we'll be outed by someone and she could lose her job and/or face family embarrassment. 2) How prevalent are STI's? Although we are both worried about this, I work close to the medical field and feel more comfortable knowing our chances would be very slim. Ms. Naughty would just like some real world replies on this topic.

 

I don't think she's worried the kids or the family will find out about our college fun since it happened so long ago, and we never caught anything then; but playing now makes her nervous as we have more to lose than we did when we were in our early 20's.

 

Thanks to anyone able to help out.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

Hello, NaughtyNaughty, and thanks for your two excellent questions!

1) How often do play partners fail to keep the LS secret for you? She's worried we'll be outed by someone and she could lose her job and/or face family embarrassment.

We have never been "outed" by anyone, least of all a play partner. Everybody has the ability, I suppose, to out a lifestyle friend- but I think we all know that this doesn't help anybody, and people have a vested interest in keeping each other's lifestyle activities confidential. Honestly, the Mrs. and I are not concerned about that kind of thing- we all have a mutual assured destruction pact with each other in this community!

 

2) How prevalent are STI's? Although we are both worried about this, I work close to the medical field and feel more comfortable knowing our chances would be very slim. Ms. Naughty would just like some real world replies on this topic.

We know some swingers who get themselves tested for STIs on a regular basis. We do the same ourselves. In our two years in the lifestyle, we have been asked to produce an STI test report exactly one time.

 

I can give you more detail for one specific STI. Based on some studying that I have done on the topic of HSV-2 (AKA, genital herpes), I know that about 1 in 6 adults 18 to 50 have HSV-2 (BTW, I gotta figure the number is higher among the swinger community, and also higher among the over-50 population, but I know of no controlled studies to quantify that), and that many of them do not even know it because they are not having any symptoms. However, even asymptomatic HSV-2 people have a non-zero chance of transmitting the virus. That's the bad news. The good news is that people who do know that they have HSV-2 can take an antiviral medication (Valtrex is one such medication, and it's the same thing that people take for cold sores, AKA HSV-1, AKA oral herpes), and that taking this medication daily does reduce (but doesn't eliminate) your chances of transmitting the virus. Using condoms reduces, but does not eliminate, one's chances of transmitting the virus as well. Abstaining during an outbreak also reduces the chance of transmitting the virus. If an HSV-2 person does all the right things, there is a 99.6% chance, over a year's worth of exposure, that they will not pass the virus on to someone- let's call that "99.6% safe". By the way, for someone in the general population (where those 1 in 6 unknowingly have HSV-2, if you recall), that safety factor is "99.2% safe" (yes, they are actually a tiny bit less safe, because if they don't know they have HSV-2, they aren't treating themselves for it).

 

I went through all that explanation, including giving you some numbers, to illustrate a general theme about STIs and swinging. Put simply, swinger are at a higher risk for STIs than monogamous couples. The only way to get the STI safety level up to "100% safe" is by abstaining! But you can help yourself a lot by using condoms, and getting yourself tested regularly. So the question becomes- how risk-averse are you? Is 99.6% safe "safe enough"? Is 99.2% safe enough? That is a question you'll have to answer for yourselves, but I'll tell you that, for me and Mrs. CoupleInMD79, the excitement and enjoyment of the lifestyle is worth the small increase of STI risk.

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

Both great questions and something that most (if not all) of us worried about when we were 'testing the waters'.

 

1) How often do play partners fail to keep the LS secret for you? She's worried we'll be outed by someone and she could lose her job and/or face family embarrassment

 

Almost never...unless the other couple has serious drama, EVERYONE tends to want to keep their privacy private. There's always a (slight) chance of running into someone you may know at a club or a party, but if you do run into someone, they're doing the same thing that you are and probably don't want it spread around any more that you would (partners in crime). There's ways to limit that exposure by not going to clubs or parties that are 'in your backyard'. Let her know that this doesn't happen very often at all and with just a little planning you can limit exposure even more.

 

2) How prevalent are STI's? Although we are both worried about this, I work close to the medical field and feel more comfortable knowing our chances would be very slim.

 

Very rare and with condoms its possible to limit any possible exposure even more. Since most of the people in the L/S are concerned about exposure to STD's, there is a heightened awareness and people are less frightened to talk about them and be tested for them keeping the possibilities (in my undocumented and unprofessional survey) lower than the general public experiences.

[Alura 2,775]

The late Mrs. Alura and I didn't use condoms. We tried to choose our partners based on how much exposure they had, and we didn't play with strangers. Although we admitted this system was not entirely safe, we were lucky, I suppose. One of our play-couples had been married as teenagers and had never had sex with anyone else. They were taking more of a chance with us than we with them.

 

Our sons learned of our hobby when they found swingersboard.com in our history. They were discrete.

 

We seemed like a normal pair of parents at the PTSA and the Band Parents club.

[NerdsAreFun 229]

No one has outed us.

 

As for STIs. My wife did have an abnormal pap smear due to a cancer causing strain of HPV. Which was taken care of with a LEEP procedure. Since 90% of sexually active people have an HPV infection at some point in their lives and it can take years for an infection to show on an abnormal pap, it is difficult to say for sure whether that was due to the few times that we have swung over the years(it's like a once every 2-3 years sort of thing for us).

 

Though that experience does make me particularly upset with anti-vax people who refuse to give their children the hpv vaccine.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Both of these concerns were our top two also when we were getting started, and honestly, they remain our top two. But, still being at the top of the list doesn't mean they are as big of concern as they used to be. Really, the reason they are the top two is we have enough experience now to really not have any other concerns since we are no longer afraid of what swinging will do to our relationship, etc.

 

As others have pointed out, swingers value discretion just like you do. We use a "two towns over rule" meaning we don't swing in our town or another nearby town. We live in a very rural sparsely populated area though, so for others, that level of geographic separation probably isn't as necessary. That along with maintaining some common sense rules on being careful on giving out your personal information reduces the risk to very low.

 

It's the same thing with STI's, use some common sense rules about protecting yourself and you should be fine. There are no absolutes though, like just about anything fun, there will always be some level of risk even if you are doing everything you can to protect yourself against it. With a few exceptions, the STI stigma is much worse than the STI itself. I try to keep it in perspective...if you have contact with someone at work and then a few days later you come down with a nasty cold or the flu, you aren't happy about it, but you treat it, you get better, and you move on with your life no worse for the wear. You don't isolate yourself and never leave the house just from the fear of catching a cold or flu bug. Even if the worst happens and very low probability of catching a STI while swinging does indeed occur, in most cases, it's going to be the same process...you treat it, it goes away, and you move on with your life. In short, is there always a risk? Yes. Is it a risk that is acceptable? Yes or no, each person has to answer that for themselves.

[EastInWest 1,524]

I can't be very informative since we haven't dived in just yet, but I can say that you have the same concerns we do and you're not at all alone in feeling that way.

 

Mrs. EastInWest has always worried about STIs. I am more concerned about the impact if someone (other than us) handles the situation poorly and it becomes public.

 

Along the same lines as cplnuswing above, I basically propose a "two *states* over" rule. The idea of playing with people we aren't close to, of course, doesn't ease Mrs. EastInWest's concerns.

[NaughtyNaughty 25]

These are all very helpful, thank you. The Ms. hasn't read them yet, but I'm sure they will help. We've debated whether to use condoms or go bareback. We do realize condoms would be safer, but Ms. Naughty likes it when I come in her and she's leaning that way with any future partners. (We didn't call ourselves NaughtyNaughty for no reason. ) We both want the full ride, in all its glory, the messiness is part of the fun. Although we do realize we may chicken out, or may find compatible playmates who prefer condoms.

 

The tips on screening folks and being selective help. I think we look at things along your lines Alura.

 

Is it pretty common for folks to just outright ask for your STD screening proof?

 

Thanks again for all the help, everyone.

[funcoupledayton 2,708]

To preface, we have been swinging 7 years and run a very large social group, so we know a ton of people and people tell us a lot.

 

Being outed: We only know 2 couples this has happened to. It was nosey, asshole family members who found them online because they were looking to stir up drama in the family. If you have crazy relatives you interact with you might want to reconsider. We personally have met co-workers, employees, gym acquaintances. We have friends who have met parents, kids, students, aunts, siblings, coworkers, bosses etc. That type of thing is just usually awkward for a moment and then fine. We're all doing the same thing and understand discretion.

 

STI's: I would strongly advise against bareback play with swing partners. There are lots of things that are super hot in swinging. The few seconds of coming in a pussy are not worth the risk in my opinion. We do know people who have contracted Chlamydia, Herpes, and Genital Warts (HPV). Having multiply partners with out condoms makes you much more likely to develop bacterial vaginosis, which is not technically an sti, but smelly and a pain to treat. You will definitely be exposed to HPV and Herpes. You can be vaccinated for HPV, but it's very expensive. You should definitely get the Hep B series, if you haven't already. Condoms will protect you from HIV and Hep B and C, the big life changers. They are also quite effective for gonorrhea, chlamydia and trichomonias. They offer some protection against syphylis, HPV and herpes.

 

Swinging is an amazing experience and I think well worth the risk. There are definitely ways to reduce risk and I think condoms are important.

[EastInWest 1,524]

These are all very helpful, thank you. The Ms. hasn't read them yet, but I'm sure they will help. We've debated whether to use condoms or go bareback. We do realize condoms would be safer, but Ms. Naughty likes it when I come in her and she's leaning that way with any future partners. (We didn't call ourselves NaughtyNaughty for no reason. ) We both want the full ride, in all its glory, the messiness is part of the fun. Although we do realize we may chicken out, or may find compatible playmates who prefer condoms.

 

The tips on screening folks and being selective help. I think we look at things along your lines Alura.

 

Question: is Mrs. NaughtyNaughty somewhat less experienced in the vanilla world relative to you? Did she have a more conservative attitude about sex and relationships from the outset, or at least in her home life?

 

For me, my fear about STIs was mainly eased by spending my "formative" years with multiple partners. At some point, you temper what you've been taught (STIs are everywhere!) with the reality that yes, those things are out there, but that not everything is AIDS and it's possible to go ahead and enjoy yourself, taking sensible precautions: using condoms, and even with condoms, avoiding anybody who seems to be notably "at risk".

 

Mrs. EastInWest, on the other hand, was a serial monogamist and settled down early, against her biology. She'll freely admit that knowing what she knows now, she regrets not spending high school and college on all fours and doesn't know what she was holding out for. However, the STI thing holds her back today. At times, we both wonder if it's not her subconscious way of listening to the nuns and her mother: they were so adamant that casual sex is awful, there's GOT to be a reason, right? She's also a very honest and optimistic person who sometimes finds it hard to see the shady side of people, which is obviously an important step if you're looking to screen out "risky" partners.

 

I can appreciate the preference for messiness. Mrs. EastInWest will tell you messiness is undesirable, until she's had a stiff drink and had her breasts fondled a little. Then all that goes out the window and she can't imagine how any woman could ever give head with a condom. (Likewise, Mrs. EastInWest loves womens' bodies, but was stiff as a board and looked unhappy the first time I ever bought her a lap dance. I thought she hated it and dropped it. It was only later that she admitted she was just terrified because she was always taught that it's so taboo, but that she was also disappointed that I hadn't kept it going.) It's a balance and something to take slowly, feel out our real boundaries. If/when we get past it and try things out, we certainly wouldn't want her to overindulge and wake up with a hangover of STI anxiety that next morning. Even when it all turned out fine, it wouldn't be a positive memory.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,026]

. . . Is it pretty common for folks to just outright ask for your STD screening proof?

In the eleven years that we have been swinging, nobody has asked for this. Nor have we asked of others.

 

Also in those eleven years, an STI has happened twice. A person needs to decide what degree of risk is acceptable.

[NaughtyNaughty 25]

Swinging is an amazing experience and I think well worth the risk. There are definitely ways to reduce risk and I think condoms are important.

 

Thank you for all of the input. We will surely take it into consideration before finally stepping off the edge and into the pool.

[NaughtyNaughty 25]

Question: is Mrs. NaughtyNaughty somewhat less experienced in the vanilla world relative to you? Did she have a more conservative attitude about sex and relationships from the outset, or at least in her home life?

 

Actually, you're pretty darn close to the truth on that one. That could explain a lot. It surely helps me understand her better and maybe allow me to start our next conversation. She was definitely less experienced, but became very open to trying things once we started dating. You're also correct in that she was raised very conservatively when it came to sex.

 

Looking at this through Mrs. EastinWest's eyes gives me new perspective. Thanks. We'll be sure to talk about it.