Safety and secrecy concerns

[Lefthand 18]

I am sure we are like most when starting in this LS with lots of questions and concerns, some of which will get answered along the way. We understand the communication part, no go if anyone isn't comfortable and not to rush anything and have rules. That said, we always end up with the same questions

 

1. Secrecy. If it's important for a couple, local clubs seem like a bad idea. Someone you know may be there, you may not want to do anything with them and the next thing you know they talk. My wife is big on it being private and I wouldn't want work/vanilla friends to know unless we got to tell them. So how else can couples find discreet play partners? This leads into our next question

 

2. Safety. Our ideal situation would to have a couple that produced papers, so would we, showing we were clean and have fun with them. Knowing we both had to be quiet about this "hobby" and not risk catching anything and ruining what we had. This sounds like that unicorn we've read about. I love to eat pussy and this would happen if we meet another couple. Obviously my wife knows I like it and she would look forward to that new touch feeling again and all that goes with that.

 

So secrecy and safety have been our hang ups. Unless I am missing something, seems like we would have to meet any email connections through whatever site, in a different town and screen from there. They may not like us as well and it would be back home and try again. Have many couples here found your "play couple" through friends you already had? Vanilla friends who weren't vanilla afterall.

 

Thanks for your time.

[Fundamental Law 2,940]

Dear LH,

 

The concerns are common and valid. A couple of suggestions...

 

1. While groups tend to be respectful and discreet, the simple fact is that the more people present, the more people who know who you are. If discretion is a priority, you may find it easier to do couples' dating.

 

A. Your profile on dating sites (SLS, SDC,...) can fairly readily be kept anonymous. Be thoughtful about the photos that are included.

 

B. Trust your instincts. If something about another couple's profile seems off, move on. Don't persist in messaging and so on. On the other hand, if the couple seems reasonable and especially if they have some "certs" --meaning other couples have met them and thought enough of them to comment about it--go ahead and meet somewhere...public.

 

C. Make your first meeting pure vanilla and in a public place. Arrange the meeting only after you have had voice contact, especially among the ladies. Depending on the size of your hometown, it might or might not matter. After all, it's nothing more than dinner or drinks at the local place. The worst that happens that someone wanders over to your table and wants to know how you met the other couple. The universal answer, "friends of friends". At worst, you've met another couple either in your hometown or in the town in the next county. Every LS couple also has a vanilla life. Next time you're out at the local Red Lobster, or Tex-Mex place, or upscale burger joint, look around. You'll see plenty of foursomes dining together. They are dressed just like you, not calling attention to themselves. Not every time, and not every place, but some of those foursomes are on LS dates.

 

Yes, you probably already know LS people. They are among your co-workers and vanilla friends and your neighbors. Still, a look at a profile should help you eliminate any probability of calling those folks for a date. Regardless, people in the LS are typically quite discreet. No one particularly wants their private life spilling over into vanilla life.

 

2. Safety. Yup, personal safety and STIs are always a question. Yup, it's okay to ask (at an appropriate time) about testing and STIs. Yup, it's okay to say that condoms are a must, or no penetration or whatever. No, there is no such thing as "safe". It's a question of risk management. It's worth reflecting on whether the things that concern you are truly high risk.

 

A. Talk to your doctor(s) honestly, and let them know that you are (or might become) non-monogamous. Ask that you be screened regularly. No, your doctor will not think badly of you. Quite the opposite. You are dealing with a personal and public health issue forthrightly. And yes, your conversations with your health care providers are private. Speaking as a healthcare professional, I've heard it all. Much rather have patients who are candid and deal in reality.

 

B. Don't hesitate to set boundaries--with spouse and with the other couple. Once set, respect them unless everyone agrees.

 

We have NEVER found play couples through vanilla friends. However, we have formed significant friendships with our play couples to the point that we know and have been involved in significant events in their vanilla lives.

[GuyInMD79 1,500]

Lefthand, I understand your concerns!

 

You've gotten some good advice above. Let me just take another crack at your concerns as well.

 

About secrecy... One way to think about this is that both you two, and the other people you meet, have a vested interest in being discrete about your involvement in the lifestyle. You might say that you have an implicit "mutual assured destruction" pact with your fellow lifestylers! In our case, we have been doing this for two years, and met a lot of people. To our knowledge, we have never been "outed" to anyone outside the lifestyle. We visit clubs nearby, and go to dinner with our lifestyle friends at local restaurants. As it happens, we have never met anyone in a lifestyle setting (at a club, meet-and-greet, or party) who we knew from the vanilla world. It might help our situation that we have lived in this area for only the last eight years, but we have not been confronted with the problem of seeing anyone we recognize from the grocery store, or a kid's teacher, or anything like that.

 

All that said, if discretion is a concern, then you should do what you feel,you need to in order to be comfortable. Going to events out of town, even with the risk of not making connections, might be considered just the cost of doing business in a comfortable way. It's also a good idea to try meeting people couple-to-couple through a site like SLS, SDC, SZC, Swingtowns, APG, Kasidie, or Quiver- actually, this is a good idea, regardless of your desire for discretion. On a site like that, you can find people to meet, and put up a profile that will help to inspire others to want to contact and meet you. You can also look up events such as meet-and-greets on whatever site you sign up on.

 

On your question of safety... It's important to understand that non-monogamy is less safe than monogamy, STI-wise. That is an unavoidable reality of swinging. You can ask for papers from your prospective play partners, but those test results are only valid as of the day the blood and urine samples were obtained- whatever else the couple has done since then is not covered by those test results. Actually, even the notion that test results are valid as of the day the samples were obtained is not completely true. There are some STIs that have an incubation period during which the person is infected, but that infection may not show up on a blood test. HSV-2 (genital herpes) is one example- it may be weeks or months between the date when one is infected, and the date when that infection would show up on a STI test.

 

My point in mentioning all that is not to scare you or turn you off, but to help you to understand that there is no way to ensure complete safety from STIs- except to not engage in non-monogamous sex. Getting tested regularly is a great idea, and we are tested regularly. And we know that condom use is a good thing, STI-wise. But those kinds of efforts are best thought of as an exercise in risk reduction, rather than risk elimination. It's a tradeoff that people in the lifestyle are willing to make- they accept a higher risk of STIs in order to experience the pleasures of the lifestyle. And just as one data point for you to consider, we have seen lots of online profiles where people say they are disease-free, and many where they ask people to be disease-free before meeting. We have been asked to produce STI test results exactly two times in the two years we've been at this.

 

On your question about finding play couples through friends, I will say that we have never had that happen. In fact, I would think that trying to move a vanilla friendship into a lifestyle friendship is a great way to violate your desire for discretion! It is also a possible way to ruin a friendship. I would advise against trying to pursue things in that way. But, like Fundamental Law said, we have found that our closest friends are people we've met in the lifestyle! Lifestyle people are just more open, friendly, honest, and fun!

 

I hope this helps!

[Lefthand 18]

The two responses helped, we appreciate you two taking the time to explain and write out your thoughts on our concerns. We understand the risks involved and were curious how others approached these topics. Again, thanks for sharing.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

You've gotten some great advice so far, what was described above fits us too, so not a lot I can add to that. Your concerns our very common ones, we had the very same concerns when we were just starting too. In fact, both of those things are still issues with us, but now I wouldn't really them concerns, just things that you figure out a way to deal with in a way that puts you in a comfortable place, and then you keep those things in your mind, but not in the front of your mind, if that makes any sense. I think that is true of just about anything though...you identify the parts of it that make you uncomfortable, you figure out what you can do to make yourself comfortable, and then when you balance those two things against each other, you decide which way you are going to go. Maybe not the best analogy, but fighting through rush hour traffic can cause discomfort and stress, wearing your seat belt makes you more comfortable. It's just one of those steps people take every day in life in a lot of different things to try to balance the potential for a bad thing by preventatively doing a good thing.

[enhancer 1,588]

Secrecy and safety are two big concerns most people have in the lifestyle! They are also two things that I think stop many from ever getting past talking about the lifestyle.

 

We look at it like this! Anyone we talk to online or meet at a lifestyle party is doing the same thing we are. It would be kind of hard outing us without outing themselves. We are also not ashamed of how we choose to live our life and don't feel the need to have to explain it to people that don't understand. So far none of it has been an issue and we live in a smaller city.

 

As for getting people to show us papers saying they are clean it is never something we have asked for or been asked to produce! Even with papers there is no 100 percent guarantee. There is always going to be a risk in the lifestyle even if you insist on condoms for intercoarse like we do. You either live with it or don't play outside of your partner.

 

I wish I could tell you sure fire ways to not have the risks that come along with the lifestyle, but there are none. There are things you can do to try and make things as safe as possible like the stuff suggested from those above, but there will always be risks. It is up to you two to decide if it is worth taking the risks. We think it is and are happy we have takin them.

[SW_PA_Couple 4,027]

You have come to a good place, as I am confident that you have already seen, to ask questions.

 

I will address the question of risk. My wife and I have exposed ourselves to the risk. We were ready. And we continue to be ready. I developed symptoms of HPV after a couple of years of swing activity. We consequently withdrew for a year until it was resolved. We both had 'body lice'. A minor thing but it had to be dealt with. Just ask yourselves if you be ready for it if and when it happens. Worse can happen but the probability is small. You could also be injured or killed crossing the street. It's all relative.

 

Oh, and WELCOME to Swingersboard.