Are you out as a bisexual?

[Miss_Piggy 98]

Sorry if this issue exists somewhere else. I couldn't find it.

 

I was just wondering if any bisexual women (or men) felt it necessary to come out to people outside of swinging.

 

I realize that there are people out there who are completely out about everything. But I'm curious about those people who consider swinging private, do you also consider your sexuality private.

 

Personally, I feel like my realization of my sexual orientation is separate from my interest in swinging. I seem to sway between wanting to tell my friends in order to be completely honest with the people I care about to wanting to keep the whole issue secret because it's none of their business anyway.

 

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone understands what I'm talking about.

[fun_pairTX 26]

Mrs Fun is out to some family and a few friends. Where she usually draws the line is my business. While entertainment touts being as liberal as can be the results can be quite opposite. Consequently we keep our business and our lifestyle choices separate.

[Lorrie 21]

I'm a Polyamorous bisexual, and I decided to come out months ago to all my friends. Only two friends don't know about my lifestyle, but they will know soon.

 

As far as business goes, whether I tell them or not depends on what job I wind up having when I move soon.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by Miss_Piggy

. I seem to sway between wanting to tell my friends in order to be completely honest with the people I care about to wanting to keep the whole issue secret because it's none of their business anyway.

Sometimes honesty can really hurt you. IMO. If it doesn't affect the relationship tht you have with your friends, I see no need to tell them. What would be the reason? Unless of course you are interested in one of your friends.

 

I made the misake once of telling someone close to me about our lifesyle (had nothing to do with my bi-sexuality) and if I could take that moment back, I would in a heartbeat. It forever changed our relationship in a way that hasn't been able to be repaired. As open minded as I thought this person was... I found out differently.

 

I do understand where you are coming from, especially when it comes to close friends. Some things are better left unsaid.

 

Mrs. O

[Elusive BiFem 70]

My sexuality and actvities are private issues for me and for a variety of reasons. Like Fun_Pair noted, coming out to people could have less than a postive impact on ones professional and personal life.

 

Having said that, I will admit that following my first "experience," I did feel a need to discuss it with someone. Unfortunately, there was no one I felt comfortable talking to about such personal issues.

 

That was quite some time ago, and long before I discovered this board. For me, that has been one of the benefits of having this board...being able to read and discuss various aspects of sexuality, including my own. The board has allowed that much needed outlet.

 

Discovering new aspects of yourself is definitely exciting, but I would advise that you wait before bringing it up to others if for no reason other than to be absolutely positive of your own sexuality. I certainly don't mean to imply that you are not, but I believe some people go through a bisexual "phase," so to speak. Curiosity maybe? If you are certain this is not a temporary or "phase-like" thing for yourself, the next step will be to weigh the pros and cons of coming out to others. Once it is out there, you really can't go back and say, "Just joking!"

 

You've really posed a good and thought provoking question. I'll be interested in others comments. - EBF

[Lorrie 21]

I can understand how it would be a lot more difficult in explaining to friends about being in the Swinging lifestyle.

 

With being Poly--the kind of Poly I'm in is pretty ordinary. It's not that unusual to have a main S/O in one's life but have sex with friends also--male and female.

 

But I still would be open about any lifestyle I'm in. The friends I have are eccentric and so not mainstream, that whatever I say probably wouldn't surprise them! Some of my friends are more "wild" than I am.

 

I'd also like to note:

 

For me, it's not about standing in front of my friends, making this big announcement after tinkling the glass; I mention my lifestyle where it is very appropos to the present conversation. It's a lifestyle for me, not just a pure sex thing; it's spiritual, emotional, philosophical....so if I kept it hidden from my friends, I would not always be myself around them. And I don't think I'd like myself for that. If my friends can't accept me for who I am and how happy I am, they need to go look for another friend because they just lost one in me.

[gsu22 187]

Personally, I think its a extremely private area in a person's life. I've had some "curious thoughts" in recent months but like EBF said, some people just go through phases and have to figure out exactly what their feelings are. And I think I'm in one of those phases right now.....and its hard for me to understand it. I've tried talking to bicurious or bi men about what its like and all they want to do is "hook up"....so I'm very scared to even think about trying it out. Also, if I was truly bi as of right now, I really don't think that I'd want to announce it to anyone. Just my personal choice though.

[fun_pairTX 26]

Some things just stick. As a gay bud once told me........Throw a 300 game and they don't call you a bowler. Get a few holes in one and play to a 3 or lower handicap and they don't call you a golfer. Get caught sucking a dick in the locker room and you are a homo forever................

He is quite a character.

[Brit_Pair 62]

Whenever a question along the lines of this one has appeared on the board, we've always given the same reply. We have always kept this aspect of our lives totally separate from the mainstream, and neither of us can imagine a time when that is likely to change.

 

As with EBF, our sexuality and our sexual choices are deeply private issues, and we cannot see what we would gain by sharing them with close friends, colleagues or acquaintances. Indeed, because of Society's often judgemental perceptions, we'd risk losing far more.

 

We've never considered ourselves deceitful because we’ve chosen not to reveal our lifestyle choices to those closest to us. A deception is making (or attempting to make) people believe something about you that is a lie. We're simply choosing not to tell them about a private aspect of our lives. Are we deceiving family or friends because we don’t reveal that we had oral sex for an hour last night? So why is deciding not to divulge that Mrs B takes pleasure from having sex with other women any different?

 

No one outside of those we play with need know about our sexual preferences. And that stance certainly doesn't affect the quality of the relationships we have with non-players.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by fun_pairTX

Some things just stick. As a gay bud once told me........Throw a 300 game and they don't call you a bowler. Get a few holes in one and play to a 3 or lower handicap and they don't call you a golfer. Get caught sucking a dick in the locker room and you are a homo forever................

He is quite a character.

 

I cracked up over this one. I'm not gay, but I've known, had as friends, and worked with many gays, and this sentiment is a common one.

 

Bunny and I, while we don't go out of our way to keep our swinging a deep, dark secret (I think the contractor who is remodeling our house knows, because one day he was here and we were discussing the job and I happened to be standing in the office, with my computer behind me. I noted in passing that he glanced several times at my computer and after he left I turned around and noticed that, at the top of the screen, in huge letters, it read SWINGERS BOARD. Oops... But I don't think he was overly offended.), but neither do we feel the need to out ourselves to all and sundry. In the final analysis, what our sexual proclivities happen to be are no one's business except those who are directly involved.

 

And let's be honest here, people. We can call this a "lifestyle" all we want, but the truth is, swinging is about sex. Or rather, it's the sex aspect that sets it apart. Otherwise, if you take the sex component away, all you are telling someone is that you have an active social life. Well, hell's bells. Lots of couples have active social lives, but not very damn many have sex with their couple friends as well as go out to dinner, movies, outdoor activities, etc with them. A nontrivial difference.

 

Or let's take Lorrie the polyamorous bisexual, who felt the need to out herself to her friends. To be frank, I find this sort of thing undignified (and likewise with gays and lesbians who also feel the need to advertise their sexual habits). Because after all, just as with swingers, if you take the "amorous" and "bisexual" parts out of the equation, all you are telling your buds is that you have an active social life, and that you go out with several people, as well as having one person in particular that you date most often. BFD. There are millions of singles out there who do these very things.

 

But, if you plug the "amorous" and "bisexual" parts back in, then you are also telling everyone that you are also fucking this group of people you date, and if any of them are of the same gender as you, you also enjoy demonstrating your ability to lick the chrome off a '57 Studebaker on that sweet spot between their legs.

 

This is what is known in the vernacular as "Too Much Information", whether you want to call the package a "lifestyle" or not. Unless, of course, you are looking to bed the person you are telling, which is a different matter entirely.

 

Now, we have some pretty avante garde friends, too, as well as those of the vanilla variety. But unless they are among the small group of people we enjoy having sex with, there is really no need to tell them that we play, or that we love our new sex swing, or that Bear loves eating pussy and plump women, or that Bunny...hmm, think I'll stop here before I get myself into trouble... It would be tacky to share that kind of information, or even that we swing, without there being a good reason. And the tacky element aside, as has been pointed out, there are also risks involved in providing "too much information" to your straight friends, relatives and co-workers.

 

As for Miss Piggy, I think you answered your own question, insofar as "being completely honest" with those you care about. It's really none of their business. Also, I would take heed of what EBF said about being sure you are bi. You don't say how old you are, but if you are only now "realizing" your orientation, it may behoove you to keep your own counsel until you are absolutely certain. I say this because every bi or gay person I've ever known admitted that he/she knew no later than their early teen years what their orientation was (whether they quite admitted it to themselves at the time or not; they still knew). If you do not fall into this category, I'd give this some serious thought before telling just anyone. As EBF said, a lot of people go through a bisexual "phase", especially if they are swingers. After all, if you are comfortable with your overall sexuality for swinging to begin with, you will find all sorts of sexual doors opening for you, many of which you may try. However, after trying them you may find that some are, in fact, not really your cup of tea. Something to think about...

 

-- Bear

[thump29 16]

I think that my sexuality is private and the only people that knows it is our swinging partners. We have really close friends that we have known for 10 years that have no clue about our lifestyle or my sexuality. We really feel that they have no reason to know what goes on in that aspect of our life.

[Lorrie 21]

bear_n_bunny:

 

When you say "too much information", that's a matter of opinion. It's not too much information to me.

 

When I see a nice looking woman, I may comment on her in a lustful way. That's the way I am with my friends; I don't know about you, but my friends and I are not formal with each other. We are open with each other. Call it undignified if you want. Whatever.

 

You really talk assuming everyone should be like you in manner, and if not, then people are crude or something. If that's the way you feel, so be it. But believe me, I would NATURALLY give my bisexuality away sooner or later. Call me what you like, but that's how I am and my friends are.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by Lorrie

bear_n_bunny:

 

When you say "too much information", that's a matter of opinion. It's not too much information to me.

 

When I see a nice looking woman, I may comment on her in a lustful way. That's the way I am with my friends; I don't know about you, but my friends and I are not formal with each other. We are open with each other. Call it undignified if you want. Whatever.

 

You really talk assuming everyone should be like you in manner, and if not, then people are crude or something. If that's the way you feel, so be it. But believe me, I would NATURALLY give my bisexuality away sooner or later. Call me what you like, but that's how I am and my friends are.

 

First off, if you want to carry on in such a, shall we say, open manner regarding your sexuality, then by all means, go ahead. Whatever floats your boat, darlin'...

 

After all, from the sound of it you run with a pretty bohemian crowd up there in New Yawk's East Village or wherever it is you hang out, where nonstandard sexual predilections are the norm. That being the case, you can probably get away with letting your sexual tendencies hang out for all to see without any adverse reactions to speak of. Compared to some people up your way, you are probably pretty tame. So, as you say, "whatever".

 

However, not everyone lives in such a, um, relaxed environment, and being overly open with one's sexual tendencies can have all sorts of negative effects; in the workplace, as well as with at least some friends and family members. This is reality. Deal with it.

 

And while I would never maintain that "everyone should be like (me) in manner", yes, in my not-so-humble opinion, people who let it all hang out about their sexuality are being crude and undignified, and for the reasons I gave earlier. And think about this; does your sexuality define who you are as a human being? To the point that you just HAVE to wear it on your shirtsleeve, so to speak, and tell everyone about it, the way many gays and lesbians do? If so, then all I can say is that I pity you (and them).

 

And make no mistake, when we are among our swinger friends, we can be as open as we wish about matters sexual, which I'll have you know is pretty goddamned open. That's one of the reasons we swing in the first place, so that we can socialize with people of our own mindset in these matters. But blabbing about it around just anyone, even if they are nominally our friends (but not swingers or the like)? Don't be ridiculous.

 

-- Bear

[yawanna 17]

Sexuality is a private issue...between/among the people involved sexually IMHO. I don't see that swingers are trying to gain acceptance from the community at large, as the gay movement chose to. Heterosexuals don't feel the same need or compunction for societal acceptance, since we are the governing sexuality. Bisexuals I believe are in the same boat as gays, but I don't see them organizing or demanding recognition or acceptance. Same with polyamorists...they do what they do and those close to them know or don't and 'coming out' doesn't seem important really.

 

As for friendships or family being advised about our sexuality, be it swinging or being bi, that's on a need to know basis I think and the need to know is based on a request made by one of them for further information and our response is tempered with a respect for their morality....how much is okay to tell them without crossing lines for THEM as in giving 'too much information'. I've only ever been asked about my swinger lifestyle after being outted by others. A sad state of affairs and malicious behaviour on the part of others (read 'ex boyfriend and one aggressive swinger couple we chose not to play with'). When even people in the swinger community can gossip and denigrate others for nothing more than placing an ad..it's just not safe to be 'out' about our swinger life and what our experiences, desires are or have been.

 

Caution for personal security, respect for others morality...that's how some of us have to do it..it's not totally our choice, except for the morality piece....that's out of respect for others.

[fun_pairTX 26]

Lorrie,

 

NY is the the polar opposite of a lot of places. While you feel comfortable where you are, you might not be so forthcoming in another setting. Texas where we live is very open and very accepting, but if you get to some other areas in the country it is not so. I am a musician and I play blues. I have had, in the past a concert picketed by bible thumpers because I play "The Devil's Music". Thank God that doesn't happen in many places anymore, but if playing the guitar can get you picketed what do you think swinging or bi behavior would get you. Probably a trip to the stake.

[Lorrie 21]

I don't know people on this board, and you don't know me, so I find it interesting that people are assuming things about me, some of them lies, and insist on comparing my life to others. I know you don't live in the same place I live, have the same friends as I do, work at the same job as I do, etc., etc. I will not comment on the obvious hate/negativity. I will not stoop to flaming wars.

 

Very interesting topics are stated. I comment on them, giving my opinions, talking about my life, without jumping on others harshly, or being jealous, or hating people for being different.

 

I love my life, and I believe others love their life too. But people who are unhappy, I hope that something happens in their life to make them love their life also. I say this generalizing and I say this sincerely.

 

I know about other places. I can't help that. But as an adult, you are responsible for your own happiness. I love my life, and I'm very proud of myself that I had the courage to change it awhile back for better. I make no appologies for my happiness. I believe in living positive.

[Miss_Piggy 98]

First of all I would like to thank everyone for responding. I really wasn't expecting so much input.

 

I would like to address the issue of being "sure."

Who knows, maybe I'm not. Maybe this is just a phase. I have never experienced a phase of bisexuality before and it is somewhat of an unmentioned topic. I wouldn't know how to recognize a phase or a non-phase (I suppose I would only be sure of that when/if the phase ended). What I do know is that I have been attracted to women for as long as I can remember. I had this sort of crazy notion that if you were attracted to women then you must be a lesbian. And I knew I wasn't a lesbian because of the being attracted to men thing So I sort of thought that being attracted to women was just something that everyone had but just didn't talk about. So I've gotten pretty good about not talking about it. Doesn't really feel like a phase. I haven't been able to grow out of it in the decade or so that my sexual mind has been active- but like I said, I won't know unless it ends.

BTW to answer the age question - I'm 22.

Anyway, I guess I've decided that it's not ending and I'm trying to come to terms with it.

My problem is that as I'm coming to terms with it I'm finding it hard not to talk about it. I'm a big talker. To top it all off, I seem to surround myself with talkers. My close friends talk about everything. As is natural (I think) for people in thier early 20s, conversation is frequently focuses on sex. At these times I do feel like I am being dishonest. As everyone else is making all sorts of comments and jokes about sex I feel like I can't say anything. If I did say anything I would either make it fairly obvious that I'm not entirely straight or mislead them into thinking that I am entirely straight.

I can understand that for some it's too much information. However, I think maybe my crowd is closer to Lorrie's in that they often are talking about even more crazy stuff. I don't think that I would risk losing close friends over this. I don't even think I would make a public declaration. I just don't like the fact that I have thoughts and feelings that I have to remember to keep secret. Cause I'm not generally very secretive about any of my other thoughts and feelings.

Sorry for blabbering on. My thoughts on this aren't organized.

~Piggy.

[Lorrie 21]

Miss_Piggy,

 

Your thoughts are very organized, and I'm glad you posted them.

 

That's the way I am. I would find it frustrating to keep quiet in that situation as well (been there in the past), when others are discussing sex, so I mention my sexuality at appropriate times (as I said), and when the discussion turns to sex, but my friends are open to discussing it at any time it seems!

 

It's WONDERFUL that you have friends who are very open-minded, and you don't have to worry about losing their friendship. I find people like that to be the most mature, understanding kind of people in the world. And I wouldn't want my friends any other way.

 

It doesn't have to be tell all to everyone or say nothing at all to anyone. You can just talk about your sexuality where you feel it's OK and appropriate.

 

Everyone's lives are unique and individual. So you do what you think is best for you.

 

All the best to you!

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by Lorrie

I don't know people on this board, and you don't know me, so I find it interesting that people are assuming things about me, some of them lies, and insist on comparing my life to others. I know you don't live in the same place I live, have the same friends as I do, work at the same job as I do, etc., etc. I will not comment on the obvious hate/negativity. I will not stoop to flaming wars.

I'm confused as to where these comments come from. I've re-read the entire thread and basically all of everyone's opinions were based on their experiences and their own personal feelings. No one has been hateful. Could you please elaborate as to why you felt the need to post the above comments?

[Miss_Piggy 98]

I was under the impression that Lorrie's comments were in reply to "coming out" being undignified - any information given regarding one's sexual activity is too much information for any person who is not a sexual partner. I think there are one or two comments above that imply that since Lorrie supplies this amount of information she is undignified.

Am I right, Lorrie?

[Lorrie 21]

Originally posted by Miss_Piggy

I was under the impression that Lorrie's comments were in reply to "coming out" being undignified - any information given regarding one's sexual activity is too much information for any person who is not a sexual partner. I think there are one or two comments above that imply that since Lorrie supplies this amount of information she is undignified.

Am I right, Lorrie?

 

Yes, you are correct Miss_Piggy.

[BradAndJanet 70]

Lorrie, thanks for clarifying your remarks and explaining how you feel. I've looked back through the thread and I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I don't think anyone was really trying to attack you personally. Some people express their opinions in a stronger way than others, that's all. And we do value everyone's opinion.

 

Truthfully, I think it's just that there are many different crowds that we all run with in this big 'ol world. Certain ways of living one's life are quite acceptable and even expected in some circles, but would cause quite a stir in others. In the end, I think you should do what makes you and your friends comfortable; in fact that's what everyone should do.

 

-B

[Houmacpl 15]

Reading over the posts, it was interesting to see the select few who feel their ideas and ways should be the way the world is. Personally, i came out to my mom as bi long before i started swinging, because i was in a relationship. It was a step in honesty i felt i needed to take with her. As far as with other friends, its a case by case senario. We have some friends who would die if they knew, and judge us harshly. However, i don't consider this couple true friends. My true friends know me, and my bisexuality is a very large part of that.

 

In regards to the statement that (and this is not an exact quote) "if you take out the sex, you're jsut telling people you ahve an active lifestyle" is very not true. It is an attitude, it is an outlook and an openness. Swinging is very much about openness with one's partner, and trust. How many non-swinging wives would be irate at a husband who commented on another woman? How many swinging wives really care that much?

 

And as far as bisexual women, in response to the same statement, whether or not they swing. Lesbianism and bisexuality are also a lifestyle, an attitude. Of the people that i've met, very few homophobic strait people knew themselves as well as glbt persons. That is not to say that "you must be gay to know yourself, if your strait, you're lying to yourself" at all.

 

Gary and i tend to be open about our lifestyle with those who understand, but wouldn't dream of mentioning it to someone who had very strict ideals for marriages, or were very religious. Co-workers don't know about our swinging, its not their business, however, some of mine know i'm bi. Above all it depends on you, your so, the liberalness of where you live, etc. It is each persons choice to tell or not, and very insensitive to dictate that one way is how it should be done.

 

 

 

 

I hope i've made sense, i'm not too sure i did.... sorry :P

 

C

[bill&sabrina 22]

Originally posted by BradAndJanet

 

Lorrie, thanks for clarifying your remarks and explaining how you feel. I've looked back through the thread and I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I don't think anyone was really trying to attack you personally.

 

It seems that you are saying that behavior is being critisized. When I think about it that way it raises another thought. People that engage in behavior that is being critisized can feel like the target of the criticism. We really don't need that to happen. Things can be said in ways to not offend, but convey a point with as much meaning. I originally thought of a negative response, but decided to put what I felt in positive words. We can "Plain Talk" without hurting.

 

Bill

[Miss_Piggy 98]

Originally posted by Houmacpl

Reading over the posts, it was interesting to see the select few who feel their ideas and ways should be the way the world is. Personally, i came out to my mom as bi long before i started swinging, because i was in a relationship. It was a step in honesty i felt i needed to take with her. As far as with other friends, its a case by case senario. We have some friends who would die if they knew, and judge us harshly. However, i don't consider this couple true friends. My true friends know me, and my bisexuality is a very large part of that.

 

In regards to the statement that (and this is not an exact quote) "if you take out the sex, you're jsut telling people you ahve an active lifestyle" is very not true. It is an attitude, it is an outlook and an openness. Swinging is very much about openness with one's partner, and trust. How many non-swinging wives would be irate at a husband who commented on another woman? How many swinging wives really care that much?

 

And as far as bisexual women, in response to the same statement, whether or not they swing. Lesbianism and bisexuality are also a lifestyle, an attitude. Of the people that i've met, very few homophobic strait people knew themselves as well as glbt persons. That is not to say that "you must be gay to know yourself, if your strait, you're lying to yourself" at all.

 

Gary and i tend to be open about our lifestyle with those who understand, but wouldn't dream of mentioning it to someone who had very strict ideals for marriages, or were very religious. Co-workers don't know about our swinging, its not their business, however, some of mine know i'm bi. Above all it depends on you, your so, the liberalness of where you live, etc. It is each persons choice to tell or not, and very insensitive to dictate that one way is how it should be done.

 

 

 

 

I hope i've made sense, i'm not too sure i did.... sorry :P

 

C

 

Thanks Houmacpl.

I think you make sense.

~Piggy

[bear_n_bunny 43]

An interesting thread...

 

There are a few things I'd like to respond to; first off is Lorrie. Honey, get over yourself. "Hate and negativity"? Yeah, you live in New York all right. I think there's something in the water up there that makes people's IQ drop about twenty percent, if that is what you came away with after reading my earlier post. For one thing, I don't know you from Eve, and also you are not important enough for me to "hate" or be "negative" about. I find it hugely amusing that every time someone of a certain mindset has someone disagree with him/her on some politically correct subject (such as sexuality is in some quarters), the one doing the disagreeing automatically becomes a "hater/bigot/homophobe/Republican-air-pirate-running-dog-bandit-aggressor/frog fornicator" ("that's right...he...he...fucks FROGS, too!!!"). I swear to God, if one of you people ever came up with an actual ORIGINAL argument, something other than the usual Northeast/Left Coast liberal/left lameass ad hominem bullshit, I would drop dead from the sheer shock of it all.

 

Again, in my not-so-humble opinion, people who wear their sexuality on their shirtsleeves are behaving in an undignified manner. Most of the reasons I hold this position I have already spelled out, and see no need to repeat. However, if you had actually READ my post, you would have noted a couple of caveats, one of which involving telling a friend that you were looking to get intimate with. That would certainly make a difference, now wouldn't it? Secondly, if you have a circle of friends who are amenable to hearing such personal information, which Lorrie indicated she does, and it makes you happy, then by all means, go WALLOW in it with your friends if that is your wish. It's no skin off my nose one way or another.

 

But where I draw the line, and I have yet to see anyone on this thread come up with a cogent counterargument to my position, is advertising to the world one's sexual habits. Another point I noted that everyone has studiously ignored is the fact that if you take the sexual component out of your "lifestyle", then all you are left with, whether single or a couple, is an active social life. But plug the sex back in, and like it or not, the entire complexion of your "lifestyle" changes, as does the way most people will look at it. That is human nature. Again, deal with it.

 

One of the biggest reasons I feel as I do is this (and I alluded to this earlier, but it also was ignored). What are we really talking about here? Sex. OK, fine. The average person, regardless of sexual orientation, spends maybe two or three hours a week engaged in sex, and usually in private, with one other person (for the reading comprehension-impaired out there, note that I said THE AVERAGE PERSON; just want to make sure we are clear on that point). The rest of the time our hypothetical person is doing...other things. For the past 30 years, I've been watching a lot of people in the gay community go out of their way to identify themselves as being gay. So what is this actually saying to the world? That I/we enjoy sucking cock/eating pussy (or doing both if you are bisexual, and with multiple partners if "polyamorous").

 

Huh?

 

Is this how these people define themselves as human beings? By their sexual habits? Sure, you can tell your close friends, especially if they are your "intimates", if you get my drift, just as we do. But just anybody? The world at large? Just so you can feel "liberated", or have an "attitude", "outlook" or "openness"?. Well, you might think it's liberating; I think it's pitiful. Yeah, Bunny and I swing, and we come to this board to discuss swinging with our fellow swingers. But there is one hell of a lot more to us than our sexual habits, and we don't define ourselves as people by what or where we have sex; that is but a small part of the total picture, and by no means the most important part.

 

We have one of those "swingersboard.com" tee shirts. Bunny or I wear it around the house on occasion. And I could even wear it in public, when going to the grocery store or on a trip to Home Depot. And believe it or not, Dallas and Austin are not the only "open and accepting" parts of Texas, and it's highly unlikely that anything would be said here in Houston either...to my face. But just as in Dallas or Austin, you can bet your ass that a lot of people would be snickering behind my back and asking "Who's that fool?". Why? Because doing something like that, "letting it all hang out" with regards to my sexual habits, is tacky, undignified and shows a remarkable lack of class (even in Dallas). Again, this is human nature.

 

You don't have to like it. But sooner or later, you will all have to grow up and deal with it.

 

One other thing; those of you who have been on this board for any length of time know full well that I am not one to hide my light of truth under a basket just to protect someone's delicate sensibilities. We are all adults here, not children. And this is especially true if someone is espousing a position I think is fallacious, invalid and/or based on vacuous Dr. Feelgood emotionalism. Lorrie does not know what "hate and negativity", let alone "flame wars" are. I was playing this game before she was toilet-trained, and if I had chosen to go ad hominem on her, she'd have never known what hit her. But I did not. I just disputed a position she had taken and said some things she didn't want to hear; a nontrivial difference. And that is, in the words of a well-known Asian philosopher of my acquaintance, "Not My Problem".

 

As for Miss Piggy, if you are 22, and have had these feeling of attraction for other females, along with males, for as long as you can remember, then yes, there is about a 99% probability that you are bisexual. Congratulations and go with God. In one respect you are probably luckier than some, given your age. It's my understanding that among the twentysomething and younger crowd, it's often considered "cool" to be bisexual, especially since you are female (that would not hold nearly as much if you were male, even at your age, but no one ever said life was fair). That being the case, you should have little or no problems, especially with your close friends if you feel the need to tell them. So like I said before, whatever floats your boat, sweetie. Go forth and enjoy yourself.

 

One thing you should be made aware of; sooner or later you will run into some tight-assed straight who will tend to get bent out of shape over your sexuality (one of the reasons why our policy regarding sex is to avoid giving out too much information to the uninitiated, as it were; why go looking for trouble if you don't have to?). This is normal and just a part of life. However, you are going to find that some of those tight-assed straights can't hold a candle to most gays and lesbians when they find out you are bi. To summarize, the straights will think you are gay, and the gays will think you are gay but faking it or in denial, which in some ways is worse, as the latter will give you more than your share of grief about it. But forewarned is forearmed, so don't be surprised when it happens.

 

-- Bear

[MagicEnigma 16]

This is an all-day kind of topic. Its something I'm deeply into discussing in another forum I am apart of.

 

I'm openly bisexual with several of my close friends here at school. I'm lucky in that I am still at college, and hence you can be freer to do as you please. Not that there are not those who frown on about everything I do in the bedroom, just that if you encounter them, there is always a circle of people that accept you.

 

I don't feel the need to be totally open with everybody at all times. There are people that know everything in detail, all generally, some, little, or nothing about my sexuality.

 

I consider myself bisexual, in that I am confortable sexually with men or women. That isn't uncommon in the lifestyle. I have been comfotable with dating and relationships with either men or women however, not just in a situationally sexual kind of way. In that I think I differ from some women in the lifestyle. I personally am single, as far as the lifestyle goes, which is rare in itself as a female. I also have not sought a relationship with a man since not long after starting into the lifestyle. Now I'm in a cycle of debating a lot of issues related to this.

 

The problem is I think this all leads back to labels. How can to describe something as free-flowing and open ended as sexuality as we express it, with straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual labels? I'm not sure there is any one label, we all have to define how we are and call it what we may. What terms we use will vary from person to person I guess.

 

I consider my being in the lifestyle to be something apart from my interests in relationships, emotional and othewise. I really enjoy it. But its not something I tell anybody according to a set procedure.

 

Somebody told me life wasn't simple.

[thekolonel 15]

Bear, I think you are missing the point here. I don't see anyone advocating hanging a giant banner on their front lawn espousing their affinity for recreational sex. Swinging may, in fact, just be about sex but bisexuality and polyamory are deeper facets of human sexuality.

 

Sexuality is a large part of most people's identities. Vanilla heterosexuals spend a lot of time talking about dating and mating--you hear your friends talking about it, you see it on the TV, you read about it in magazines. Marriage is considered one of the most important events in a person's life. So, yes, people do wear their sexuality on their shirtsleeves.

 

Case in point from Piggy's post: "As is natural (I think) for people in thier early 20s, conversation is frequently focuses on sex. At these times I do feel like I am being dishonest. As everyone else is making all sorts of comments and jokes about sex I feel like I can't say anything."

 

To say it's "tacky" for a bisexual person to engage in the same sort of sex and relationships banter that heterosexuals do all the time strikes me as odd. You are effectively reducing being gay, bisexual or polyamorous to the movement of body parts, and placing heterosexuality on a pedestal.

 

Piggy, if any of your friends would be truly put off by your bisexuality then perhaps they aren't such good friends afterall.

[bear_n_bunny 43]

Originally posted by thekolonel

Bear, I think you are missing the point here. I don't see anyone advocating hanging a giant banner on their front lawn espousing their affinity for recreational sex. Swinging may, in fact, just be about sex but bisexuality and polyamory are deeper facets of human sexuality.

 

Sexuality is a large part of most people's identities. Vanilla heterosexuals spend a lot of time talking about dating and mating--you hear your friends talking about it, you see it on the TV, you read about it in magazines. Marriage is considered one of the most important events in a person's life. So, yes, people do wear their sexuality on their shirtsleeves.

 

Case in point from Piggy's post: "As is natural (I think) for people in thier early 20s, conversation is frequently focuses on sex. At these times I do feel like I am being dishonest. As everyone else is making all sorts of comments and jokes about sex I feel like I can't say anything."

 

To say it's "tacky" for a bisexual person to engage in the same sort of sex and relationships banter that heterosexuals do all the time strikes me as odd. You are effectively reducing being gay, bisexual or polyamorous to the movement of body parts, and placing heterosexuality on a pedestal.

 

Piggy, if any of your friends would be truly put off by your bisexuality then perhaps they aren't such good friends afterall.

 

No, I didn't miss the point. It's one thing to confide in your friends, but to let it all hang out, as if this is what you are over all else (which is the net effect of this "wearing your sexuality on your shirtsleeve" is), is undignified. And there is even more to it than that, as you will see.

 

Clearly you did not read the thread very carefully, if at all. So once again, not everyone lives in New York "Metrosexual" City, where you can let it all hang out with impunity, and indeed if you don't have SOME kind of kink or "nonstandard" sexual proclivity up your way, the locals think there is something wrong with you.

 

And again, you can tell your friends, and discuss it with them, etc. That is, if your friends are so inclined to handle such information, or desire to know such personal information. Not all are. Not everyone wants or needs to know that you enjoy sucking cock now and then, or live a "polyamorous lifestyle", or swing, or are into a bit of BDSM, or whatever your particular brand of sexual habit may be. Does that make them any less your friend? You seem to think it does. So what makes you right and most of the people who posted on this thread, who said they don't share such personal information with just anyone (not the least of which because in most cases it's none of their fucking business) and their reasons why, wrong?

 

Oh yes, I forgot. You, like Lorri, live in "New York", and know better than the rest of us ignorant slobs out here in "flyover country" the way people should conduct their lives.

 

I tell you what, sonny. Whether it be you, Lorri, or any other swinging you-name-it out here, and you want to let your sexuality all hang out for your family, friends, coworkers or whomever to see, smell and taste, regardless of whether they need or want to, then you go right ahead, and (insert your deity of choice or "none" here) bless you.

 

The salient point that some of you don't seem to understand is that gays, bisexuals, swingers, and other with unconventional sexual habits, make up only a relatively small percentage of the population. Most people are not into, nor do they even grasp what these things are about, or why someone might have this or that predilection. Let alone are most of them even interested in hearing about it, let alone participating in it, because most of them find the idea of these sorts of things revolting, or at least far more personal information than they really, REALLY care to know about you.

 

Sure, the mainstream media has gone to great lengths to indoctrinate the population that certain sexual orientations, especially homosexuality, are normal and should be as accepted as such, and woe betide anyone who does not follow the Party line as instructed. But, even with the most "open minded" among us (usually they are so open minded their brains fell out, but that's another topic), when you get down to brass tacks, if he/she is not homo- or bisexual, or into swinging, BDSM or whatever, they are going to find such activity revolting, disgusting, off-putting, use any term you care to use.

 

I know this to be true, because I've seen it, just as I have myself been in the past too open with information about my sexual predilections with friends and family members (especially when I was young, dumb and full of cum, and even more recently with regards to my swinging activities) and so know whereof the fuck I speak. It really is, in most cases, "too much information" for a lot of people.

 

As I said before, this is reality. Sooner or later you WILL have to fucking grow up and DEAL WITH IT. Sure, college kids like Miss Piggy, where most everyone is pushing the outside of the envelope anyway; hell, go for it, WALLOW in it. Enjoy it.

 

But as time goes by, you all WILL learn that there are certain very common scenarios where what you do in the bedroom is best kept to yourself (except perhaps in New York, which after all isn't the real world, and so allowances must be made for those unfortunate enough to live there. And yes, I've been there, many times, and brother, you can have it.)

 

-- Bear

[thekolonel 15]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

No, I didn't miss the point. It's one thing to confide in your friends, but to let it all hang out, as if this is what you are over all else (which is the net effect of this "wearing your sexuality on your shirtsleeve" is), is undignified.

 

I don't think anyone was talking about "letting it all hang out." The OP was talking about confiding in her friends. When conversation among friends turns to subjects like relationships and sex it's a question of whether you can trust them enough to let them know you are different (gay, bi, or poly). At any rate, it's difficult for, say, a gay man to hide that facet of himself from his friends. And true friends won't judge him for it. I have a friend from my college days who's gay. I don't mind knowing he has relationships with men any more than he minds knowing I have relationships with women. Him telling me he's moving in with someone wouldn't be any less dignified than me telling him I'm getting married.

 

Not everyone wants or needs to know that you enjoy sucking cock now and then, or live a "polyamorous lifestyle", or swing, or are into a bit of BDSM, or whatever your particular brand of sexual habit may be. Does that make them any less your friend?

 

The mistake you're making here is conflating sexual activities with sexual identity. Sucking cock, swinging and BDSM are recreational sex activies. Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and polyamory are identities. When I meet a married couple I don't think "Wow, that guy must like eating her pussy... GROSS! Why does he flaunt it like that?" Why should it be any different for a non-hetero couple?

 

And yeah, if I were bisexual or gay I'd be pretty upset if my friends couldn't handle that simple (and important, relationship-wise) fact.

 

So what makes you right and most of the people who posted on this thread, who said they don't share such personal information with just anyone (not the least of which because in most cases it's none of their fucking business) and their reasons why, wrong?

 

Huh? When did I say anyone was wrong for not sharing?

 

Oh yes, I forgot. You, like Lorri, live in "New York", and know better than the rest of us ignorant slobs out here in "flyover country" the way people should conduct their lives.

 

Ah right, I'm just one of those "snobs" from Noo Yerk City. Get real, bear. And while you're at it, look up "ad hominem" in the dictionary.

 

But, even with the most "open minded" among us (usually they are so open minded their brains fell out, but that's another topic), when you get down to brass tacks, if he/she is not homo- or bisexual, or into swinging, BDSM or whatever, they are going to find such activity revolting, disgusting, off-putting, use any term you care to use.

 

Like I said before, simply knowing someone happens to be gay, bi, whatever doesn't bother me. As long as they don't have to hear the gritty details, any reasonable person would shrug their shoulders and say "whatever works for them." Swinging, BDSM, watersports, whatever may be different, since it's difficult to discuss them without getting into the gritty detail. But, then again, activities aren't the point of this thread.

 

(except perhaps in New York, which after all isn't the real world, and so allowances must be made for those unfortunate enough to live there. And yes, I've been there, many times, and brother, you can have it.)

 

Careful fella, you're beginning to sound like a slack-jawed yokel.

[Miss_Piggy 98]

Originally posted by thekolonel

Ah right, I'm just one of those "snobs" from Noo Yerk City. Get real, bear. And while you're at it, look up "ad hominem" in the dictionary.

 

That's funny you should say that 'cause we were reading Bear's response before this post was up and Kermit did look up ad hominem in the dictionary. We didn't know what it meant

*Piggy hangs head in shame at evidence of poor vocabulary*

[yawanna 17]

Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality and polyamory are identities

 

Speaking to just the 'bi' component.. it's late, I'm tired, but I want to contribute i don't know if I'm bi or not.... I will and have played quite heavily with women. I don't identify as 'bi'. But then....maybe it's just when I'm attracted to a certain woman, and there aren't many, not as many as the men I'm attracted to *EG*. Or when I'm amenable to playing sexually with women within the context or 'mood' of the group I'm with... to me, it's all sexuality and freedom to go further if one chooses.

 

since I have and probably will again get sexual with women maybe I am bi. But I don't 'identify' as one because generally, I don't get off on pics of women or the thought of being sexual with women. It isn't my prime motivation.

 

And if some think I AM bi..then does that have to form part of my identity?

[Houmacpl 15]

Ok, i have but one question... Bear, why do you care so much? What are you trying to accomplish by attempting to force your ideas? Personally, i see no point in the strong language. Being from Dallas, and a smaller texas town before that, don't think you have the monopoly on texas opinions. I have been openly bi, in dallas and elsewhere, with no retribution from any heterosexuals, whether it was in public holding hands, etc. with a girl, or on campus.

 

Perhaps, if i can make a suggestion, you need to think about your own opinions regarding sexuality. There seems to be a certain amount of prejudice there, under the guise of "not wanting it to all hang out."

 

Chloe, who is only 19, but has been in college since 16, who has been to NY and loves it, but does not consider it so different from the rest of the us.

[bill&sabrina 22]

Originally posted by Houmacpl

 

Bear, why do you care so much? What are you trying to accomplish by attempting to force your ideas?

 

Because he is an ass that has nothing better to do.

 

Bill

[Houmacpl 15]

*snicker*

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Miss Piggy,

 

I said it early on...interesting questions...and the responses have proven that to be true!

 

As I read through everything, it seems that most people are saying the same things; i.e., be absolutely certain that coming out is what you really want and need to do. Carefully weigh the want vs. need aspects - the pros and cons. Ask yourself what purpose will be served by telling people of your bisexual interest? You mentioned a feeling of dishonesty when discussing sex with friends. Are these the types of friends you honestly think will stand next to you for the next 20-30-40-50-60 years? Or…are they people that may soon disappear from your life. I believe all of us over the age of 40 could go back and name hundreds of friends from our 20's...few of whom we see or hear from even a few years later, much less some 20-30 years later.

 

You said you've been interested in women for many years. Maybe it is exactly that clear cut for you, leaving no room for questions or doubts. However, here, on a board comprised primarily of swingers, I suspect many of us are bisexual in the context of swinging only. Beyond that, tho’, should your sexuality be of any concern to your friends? I’m like others in that my sexuality is only a very small part of who I am and what I’m about. And yes…my friends and I, part of the “older” generation, talk about sex…and maybe even more frequently than you younger people do, if the truth be told. However, I’ve never found myself feeling dishonest while discussing sex because I did not share certain aspects of my own sexuality. I have several “best” friends and with some of them, sex is a recurring topic of conversation. On the other hand, my best friend of many, many years…we never discuss sex but I have no doubt we would go to the end of the earth for each other. There are far too many other events, experiences, shared memories, interests…that sort of thing…that bind our friendship. How would she or I react if either of us discovered the other was bi? I can’t say, although I suspect it would not really make any difference. But it just isn’t important in our relationship. I guess I’m trying to say that for me there is a time and place for all things.

 

The problem is...once it is out there, publicly announced, you may well find yourself being forever more labeled as bisexual. It will follow you into the work-place. It may influence future potential friendships. As much as we don't like it, there is discrimination out there in the world. You may remain bisexual until the day you die (unlike the phase I mentioned earlier), but then again...a few years down the road, you may decide otherwise and want to dispel the label. You may find it hard to do so.

 

I mentioned this briefly in chat last night, but to follow-up. I have a neighbor (Jane) of about 4 years duration. About 29, I think. Divorced. We’ve all known her rather well and like her. Recently, another young woman her age (Mary) moved into the area and immediately announced her bisexuality, stirring up a storm of gossip. In the meantime, Jane and Mary have become friendly and everyone sees them socializing. A normal state of affairs for two young and single women. HOWEVER…the neighborhood is now buzzing with gossip about Jane! Is she bisexual? She must be…hanging out with Mary! Just watch them! They are always going back and forth to each other’s houses! Jane must be bi! Why would she hang out with Mary if not?!? Gossip, gossip, gossip…and not nice. I even heard one person mention that she didn’t want to invite either of them to the Thanksgiving thing she has each year. Go figure! But that’s the way it can sometimes be. Now Jane…is she bi? Who knows? And do I care? Not at all? But if she isn’t, I just wonder how she would feel about all this gossip that is taking place about her and her new friend. The other thing…every time anyone even mentions Mary…the first words are always, “You know, Mary…the one that’s bi…” In other words, her choice of sexuality has become her defining feature. No one mentions the cute girl that just moved in with the blue car…or the little white fluffy dog…just the “bi” thing. Most people here, unfortunately, have decided they do not like her…based upon something as simple as her choice of sexual partners. Sad but true.

 

Deciding to acknowledge your feelings to others is a very personal decision and one that can have effects on the rest of your life. I believe that is what most have tried to convey. And of course, you will find two sides to every coin when dealing with issues and questions of any importance. Whatever decision you decide to make…just look at all aspects and decide for yourself what is best for you. This isn’t like buying a car…drive it a few 1000 miles and trade it in…you might be stuck with this car for a mighty long time.

 

And as for Bear being an ass? So very true! And one of my most favorite asses! Personally, I love the way he jumps in and cuts to the heart of issues. I don’t always agree with him, but I can certainly say he makes me look at things with a different view. That’s what I like about him. Not to mention you never have a problem knowing where he stands on things…sensible.

 

- EBF

[thekolonel 15]

Phew EBF. That was an action-packed post.

 

I think part of the problem is that people misuse the "bisexual" label, especially in our girl-on-girl-obsessed culture. The term has lost its meaning. To me, bisexuals are people who are open to the idea of cultivating romantic relationships with either gender. Everyone else is probably better described as heteroflexible (or homoflexible... LOL).

 

Why is this distinction important? Well, if you are a heteroflexible woman your attraction to other women doesn't impact your life in any significant way outside the bedroom. You can easily shield your proclivities from your friends. On the other hand, if you are bi there's always the potential of meeting a woman and falling in love, which is almost impossible to hide from the people who are close to you. If they aren't supportive then they aren't really your friends, IMO.

 

Mary may have made a mistake by announcing her bisexuality so openly (how did she do this, by the way?), but the reality is people are going to talk anyway. If Mary never said anything but started dating Jane I'm certain the same rumors would be flying about. At any rate, it sounds like a no-win scenario. Either keep quiet and try to meet like-minded men and women using the secret bi handshake (even if she only dates men they presumably have to be ok with her little secret), or be open about it and incur the wrath of the tight-assed community at large.

 

Yeesh. Not to rag on anyone's hometown or anything, but NYC does have its advantages.

[saranmark 15]

Kolonel,

 

I LOVE the term "heteroflexible"! Did you make that up?

 

Sara

[Elusive BiFem 70]

Originally posted by thekolonel

Phew EBF. That was an action-packed post.

 

Thanks! I get like that sometimes...

 

I think part of the problem is that people misuse the "bisexual" label, especially in our girl-on-girl-obsessed culture. The term has lost its meaning. To me, bisexuals are people who are open to the idea of cultivating romantic relationships with either gender. Everyone else is probably better described as heteroflexible (or homoflexible... LOL).

 

This is a good point you made, and in fact, a friend, while discussing this very topic, brought to my attention the wide spread bi-playing that is now occurring in mainstream nightclubs. This was surprising to me. I've never seen it. According to her observations, most of this playing is for the benefit of the men. Somehow it is supposed to entice the men. It isn't anything I really understand, nor have I observed this type of activity. I wonder if this is what you are referring to with the "girl-on-girl- obsessed culture?" I would have to agree with both of you - that is not genuine bisexuality.

 

While the identical thoughts that you and my friend posed were not in my brain at the time of writing, those same thoughts seem to fortify my stance in terms of being absolutely certain that one is willing to accept the consequences of announcing their own sexual definition if it varys from heterosexual.

 

A judgement call is not part of my statements, nor was it provocation for the statements to be made. It was merely my attempt to have Miss Piggy be aware of the various pros and cons of such announcements.

 

Another thought...from an early age, females interact with one another that fosters the inborn nuturing instinct that is indigenous to us. We hug, hold hands and skip down the street, interact with one another in a far more physical manner than little boys do. It isn't a giant leap, therefore, for females to progress to sexual interest in one another even if it never goes further than the "thought process." Given Miss Piggy's youth, perhaps her representation of having felt/known she was bisexual from an early age may be simply a culmination of these nurturing relationships that females seem to form more easily than males do.

 

Basically, when you get right down to it, if you are open to the giving and receiving of sexual pleasures, regardless the gender, isn't that really the happiest of circumstances for an individual? The only individual that sexual definition is crucial for is self.

 

I don't know. These are just my thoughts and you, too, have presented some interesting fodder for continued thought.

 

NYC does NOT have weather advantages.

 

Your Texas friend,

- EBF

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

There are a lot more people who are aware that I am bi than are aware of my swinging activities (past or present).

 

The bi thing is a lot harder to hide...

 

"Why do you own Bound and Showgirls?" Cuz I have a thing for Gina Gershon.

 

"Damn that girl is hot." Yes, she is.

 

THe list goes on. People tend to figure it out sooner or later if I don't outright tell them. I'd say most of my friends have a fairly good idea that I'm bi and only a handful of my non-swinger friends know about my swinging activities (whether it be that they know I did in the past or whether they know it's something I still am involved in).

[Paul&Audrey 21]

The wife here is bi, and my family live nearby to us...which isnt easy to deal with at all. Most of our real friends know we hang around the fringes of a swinger group and that she is bi. It can, at times, be hard to keep everything seperated...

 

Paul