Broaching the Subject with a couple

[Guest]

Mr T and I are new to the scene as I have mentioned - first swinging experience was in January.

 

Anyway, we have lived in the same house for 7 years and have some neighbors who moved in about a year after us. We have become the casual kind of neighbors - "Hey we are going out of town for a few days, can you put my recycling out?" "The kids need a ride to school today, can they come with you?" but not much more. We have a pool and when they first moved in they came over one evening when we were having a party and stayed for a while. This last Christmas the wife came over with homemade Mexican cookies. Last month I saw the husband get into his car to go to work and it would not start. I offered for him to use our spare vehicle if he needed to. But really that is the extent of things. Mr T mentioned that one night A (the wife) came over to the house to ask something - she was with a girlfriend at the time and seemed a little drunk (I was not home). Now that we are in the LS he says he wonders whether they are too - he thinks he is getting a vibe from them.

 

Anyway, he friended her on FB and messaged her about her and T (her husband) coming over for drinks when I return from the UK this weekend. He sent me screen grabs of the messages and boy, she moved into flirt mode really fast! So now we are curious. This is a couple who are our age, the same number of kids we have, they are attractive, work out (go to a different gym from us) but we have so much in common with them - and we know that just from the little we have interacted with them.

 

They are coming over for drinks next weekend and I wonder, what is the best way for Mr T and I to even broach the subject? If they turn out to be in the LS already or are open to it, how amazing would it be? But what are the chances? Isn't the percentage of people who swing like 0.001 of the population? So in the US that comes out to about 33,000 people. Even if the percentage is higher, what are the chances that we would find someone right next door.

 

Any ideas?

[sweetsnspeed 52]

That would be kind of convenient, perhaps too convenient. We would think that just like swinging with previously non-swinging friends, that swinging with previously non swinging next door neighbors might even be more of a slippery slope.

 

Just our 1/2 cent

[Chris&Suzanne 204]

One approach we take is my wife will invite the other wife into our bedroom to see some sexy underwear, nighty, etc. she has recently bought, and usually offers try it on to get the other wife's opinion, if she "feels" the other wife is enjoying it, she may suggest that the other wife try on something as well, if they are close in size. If things are still going well she will suggest they come out to give us guys a fashion show.

 

We find the best time to do this is just before our trip (we go to HEDO in Jamaica every year) so she can show the sexy clothes we bought for this years trip, or soon after we get back as we tell them about the great time we had there.

[SA_NewtoLS 163]

The way I would broach it would be to tell them that some friends of yours had a couple approach them with something similar and see how they react. Personally, I'd be leery of approaching neighbors any other way. If you are wrong, and they are not in to it, and they tell all your other neighbors, you could have problems. Then again, I am a bit paranoid about stuff like that honestly. I'd rather not give them dirt on me if I don't already have dirt on them, as bad as that sounds.

 

I'd probably use a story that actually happened to a friend of mine once. He and his wife married for a couple years and they had kinda been looking for other couple friends. They were hanging out with this other guy I kinda knew through people and one night he had invited my friends over and then just asked them if they wanted to swap partners. Of course, my friend comes from a Mormon upbringing, is actually an ordained minister and did ministry work in other countries for a bit. He's not a huge religious nut or anything anymore, but he is still against any sort of non-monogamous relationships. So he and his wife just got up and left, then proceeded to tell EVERYONE and their brother about it. The couple that asked them ended up breaking up couple months later and then a couple months after that the guy committed suicide. Unsure if it was related in anyway or not to his whole family and all his friends finding out he was a swinger, but it happened. Perhaps that's one of the reasons I am so paranoid about getting outed myself.

 

So if I really wanted to broach the subject with someone else I knew, I'd probably just tell that story and see how they react and go from there. Honestly though, I probably wouldn't do it to begin with. Going to the club there is no lack of other couples to get with, so no need to do something with a much higher risk of us getting outed, is much preferable to me. If we did not have a club here, or on-line sites meant to help people connect, it may be a different story. There are just so many different ways to find other couples though that to me, it's not worth the risk. All it takes is them being offended by it, then telling your other neighbors, then other parents aren't letting their kids play with your kids and either your kids won't know why, or the other parents will have told their kids who tell your kids. Just not worth it IMO.

[Guest]

Thank you for your insight. I agree about the clubs and we have met 2 couples through other means. I also told Mr T that I am not willing to feel friends out - too uncomfortable if they are judgemental. And in our professions we have to be very careful.

[sweetsnspeed 52]

Also, consider the stakes involved. If they are not swingers, or are swingers and something goes awry between you. It will make a mess of things. Not like you can just pack up and leave, or just stop seeing them (as in them being next door, not in a swinging sense). Even if there was a club and you both showed up there, that may work, but still, if things go wrong after awhile, still not real easy to just up and avoid them, without moving to a different house.

[SA_NewtoLS 163]

Also, consider the stakes involved. If they are not swingers, or are swingers and something goes awry between you. It will make a mess of things. Not like you can just pack up and leave, or just stop seeing them (as in them being next door, not in a swinging sense). Even if there was a club and you both showed up there, that may work, but still, if things go wrong after awhile, still not real easy to just up and avoid them, without moving to a different house.

 

The thing is, if you run in to them in the club and things go awry, at least you have less to worry about with them outing you as they will be outing themselves as well. Sure, things may still be uncomfortable between neighbors, but I could live with that. I don't think I could live with being outed to all my neighbors. All my neighbors, means all the parents of all the kids my daughter goes to school with. Not something I want them knowing as it will likely result in my daughter being treated differently by other kids. It sucks that this is something we have to think about, but it's a reality.

[Alura 2,774]

I think my late wife and I would not be wondering if the couple swings. Instead we would be telling each other, "Wow! Beth and Henry really seem to have it together." We'd set our goal at becoming more acquainted with them, and try to learn more about their personalities.

 

After a hundred questions such as "How do y'all feel about chocolate donuts?" Laura would ask them,"How do y'all feel about group sex/swinging/swapping spouses." Notice that this is not an invitation, just an attempt to explore their thoughts as you've done before. It cannot be answered with "yes" or "no" and must result in a discussion. The woman should ask the question, since ladies are perceived as less sexually threatening.

 

If they ask, "Why do you ask?" tell them, "No fair to answer a question with a question!" Then go on. "We read a sexy story on Swingers Board/Penthouse/Playboy and have been talking about it. I was wondering what y'all might think." (Be prepared to find the magazine and share it with them.)

 

My wife asked this question many times in our 27 year marriage. The most common answer was, "We've talked about it." The least common (but best) was, "We've only done it once, but we loved it! We've been wantin' to fuck y'all so bad! Wanna do it now?"

 

If at any time they seem negative, ask them, "How do y'all feel about Sesame Street's new character?"

[Guest]

Alura, I like your comment. I don't think we intend just blurting it out, but instead feeling them out (no pun intended)! Our kids are older now, we only have 2 left in high school, the others have flown the coop. I think Mr T and I are good at reading people so would probably be able to tell from general conversation how they feel. Mr T is pretty sure they have seen us have adult fun in our pool over the years (Mr T and I love to have sex in the pool once it gets dark, or swim in the nude).

[cplnuswing 4,713]

While there are certainly ways one could go about feeling them out, I personally think it would be a really, really bad idea. I can't think of a much worse scenario than having tried to swing with the neighbors only to quickly find out they aren't into that, at all, no way no how. That could really make your lives miserable and moving out of a house you've been in for years isn't easily done. The risk just seems to far outweigh the potential rewards.

 

Doesn't mean you can't have a lot of fun playing the "are they or aren't they game" though...Just make sure it stays your own little joke between the two of you

[Alura 2,774]

Y'all are about where we were at the same stage of our life. Teen boys, swimming pool that we played in, spa, but no neighbors we thought might play. We would certainly not have asked any of them to swing, or even asked how they felt about the sport. A few of our closer friends (not neighbors) were aware of our playfulness, but no problem was caused.

 

We felt we owed the same honesty to our swing partners that we did each other. Note my signature line.

 

Good Luck! I have a feeling y'all will have a lot of fun together in the future as you apparently have had in the past.

 

Go Sooners!

[afterwork 89]

So you have a pool. Do they have one? Maybe a discussion about the ravages of having to wear swimwear and the preference of skinny dipping when possible could be engaged. As the weather warms and the opportunity to skinny dip avails, that can often get a more interesting response. Once the nudity is present, then a lot of barriers get easier to navigate.

 

As to neighbors, well we had that happen more than once. One of our favorite group pics is that of our neighbors two houses away in our cul de sac enjoying several folks at the same time. Go live in a small, small town where you find that neighbors may be country mile neighbors but still end up being fuck buddies. We had zero idea that those neighbors were LS folks, as they did us. But a hot tub installation at our house and the welcome of the neighbors as long as they skinny dipped ( and the presence of one of our favorite swapping couples also sitting the hot tub naked) seemed to accelerate the swinging that happened almost immediately. Turned out the neighbors were long term LS folks and just needed an opening. The water nudity was the first nudge to open the door to the discussion.

 

We have had other neighbors (one across the street and another couple next door) in a different state, flirt their way into them launching the first questions without the benefit of a pool or a hot tub. We call what you might be experiencing, the "courtship." Probably too broad of a term, but it does seem like the dance is on and the worst part is deducing is what music is really playing and, does everyone want to dance. Oboy...that was really stretching it out to create an image.

 

Neighbors are one thing, kids are the other hand is really, really serious. Good luck regarding the fallout a bad situation might make for the kids. For us, in all instances, their were no school age kids in the mix. Tough call for families where as other Posters have offered can become messy for the kids if a fallout happens.

 

But, as to leading to helping a transition....don't forget the pool. Our pools and hot tubs have produced positive results from folks that we felt were on the edge (and some whom we would have never considered a possibility). Guess it is the nudity, proximity, and pure comfort that a pool or hot tub sets for the environment. If they aren't interested in skinny dipping, probably a dead end.

 

Good luck. Be careful........

[Guest]

afterwork - brilliant ideas. They do not have a pool and part of our having drinks with them is to let them know that we want to invite them over as often as possible this summer. They are a fun couple, and we know that just from being neighbors. As mentioned, our kids are older, the youngest will be a senior next fall, and the rest are out of the house, married, or in university. Same for them - their twin girls are a year behind my youngest.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

We also warn about playing in your own neighborhood. Realize that if this goes bad, it will most likely go REALLY bad.

 

How do y'all feel about group sex/swinging/swapping spouses.

 

They could be shocked at just the question and jumping to the conclusion that you are swingers isn't a long leap. But even if they are 'on board', what happens if things later go bad and tell the entire neighborhood that you are swingers? Are you prepared for that possibility? Just think about all of the options before continuing. It's not very easy to just move if it comes to that. We believe in risk/reward and feel the reward isn't worth the risk, but you may feel otherwise.

 

In case you do, we like Afterworks suggestion about the pool. We have a sign on our deck that says "Swimming Pool -> Suits Optional". Most people just laugh at the sign, but it also starts a few conversations as well. Ask them if they have ever gone skinny dipping and see where the conversation goes from there...

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

Neighbors might not be forever, they are nevertheless there for a while. We have remain on the best of terms with our immediate neighbors; one of their windows looks directly in on our hot tub. They have been over, they know that there are "no swim suits allowed" in the hot tub, and if they happen to be home when the hot tub is in use, they close that shade. It is an arrangement that has worked comfortably for all concerned for eight years. Yes, we have invited them over, and they have declined. It's a mutual understanding that is in everyone's best interest. As it happens, one of the neighbor couple is prominent in county government. She could probably cause trouble for us if they wished. But the simple fact is that they do not--because they understand that a good neighbor brings value to them and to the neighborhood. We mention all of this because, in our experience, it made more sense to establish that we were good neighbors first and later to invite them over.

 

That said, there's another couple from the neighborhood, an older couple that came to our home when we hosted a neighborhood meeting about this or that issue a few years back. Nice gracious people, outwardly conservative, enjoyed the little house tour that we give. They stayed a bit after the meeting, volunteered to help us clean up (there wasn't much to do--we had paper plates, plastic cups and so on). It was a cool night, we mentioned that we were going to get into the hot tub and asked if they wanted to join us. They grinned and said, "we were hoping you would ask!"

 

The imemdiate neighbors closed the shade.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Lots of great advice being offered. I tend to be more on the careful side, so side with that advice regarding neighbors; is it really worth the risk? There's a lot of ways it can go bad. They could reject you at first suggest, then tell neighbors, mutual friends, etc. behind your back. They could accept, you begin playing with them, one of you falls in love with a play partner, then things get real complicated, real quick. Another potential problem is that while you are new to swinging, you quite possibly have a lot more experience at this than they do. Swinging isn't usually a thing people decide on the spot; it's something you build up to. It could be that you start playing, they're not really ready for it, and their relationship is damaged by the experience. There's lots of variables here, most of them unknown.

 

Now, it could go well. It could also go poorly but the ramifications of it going poorly might be negligible. There's ways in which this works out quite well. There could be some crazy sexy hot play times in the pool ahead of you. I would be careful about mixing too much alcohol with this though; if it takes them quite a few drinks to be ready to play, it's likely the case they are not ready to swing at all.

 

One of the hard parts here is that they are your neighbors. IF it goes bad, there's no 'retreat'. Something said around here a lot; make friends of swingers, not swingers of friends. Lots of truth in that. I've held to that advice myself for many years. There are a couple of women of my acquaintance whom I'd like to share a bed with. But, they are friends...I've no idea if they are swingers, and I'm not going to bring it up. Well, except once, but that's a story for another time, and not directly pertinent here.

 

 

Oh, I just forgot something I wanted to add on. I would be careful about using a ruse to feel them out as to their receptivity. There's a few reasons for this; one, you might be called on the ruse and have to back it up and if it's not true, you've just been dishonest with them. Two, you might gauge their receptivity completely wrong. Without asking a more direct question or making things more directly clear, you won't really know what they are thinking or how receptive they are. Just some thoughts.

[BobGann 40]

I think Chris and Suzanne might have mentioned something you can use...mention you want to go to HEDO, or are going to HEDO. Anyone in the lifestyle will know what that is, I think, especially if they've been around awhile. See what their reaction is..that might give you your answer.

[JandKinBoise 858]

After reading this thread, I went thru the list of our lovers over the years. I can't think of a single one I'd want living next door to me. Not that there are arch enemies out there, just relationships that came and went.

I think neighbors are simply too close for this. SO much that can go wrong.

[Guest]

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. I did tell Mr T when we first decided to start swinging I was not looking for swingers among our friends, but instead, as someone else commented, make swingers our new friends. Regardless, we will become better friends with our neighbors, they have been cool to live next to for the past few years.

[JM153 346]

If you do decide you would like to swing with them even though they are neighbors, then my suggestion is to use the nude swimming as the intro. When we had a pool and hot tub we had a rule of no swimsuits in the hot tub and we liked to swim nude when we could. I told our next door neighbor that we liked to swim nude and I hoped it did not offend them if they happened to see us. They thanked me for my concern and avoided looking over the fence when we were in the pool. If you take this tack then the worst they can do is tell your other neighbors that you swim nude. On the other hand if they are interested, you can invite them for a swim party and after sufficient adult beverages suggest everyone take the suits off and get comfortable. Over time one thing may lead to another.

[SA_NewtoLS 163]

If you do decide you would like to swing with them even though they are neighbors, then my suggestion is to use the nude swimming as the intro. When we had a pool and hot tub we had a rule of no swimsuits in the hot tub and we liked to swim nude when we could. I told our next door neighbor that we liked to swim nude and I hoped it did not offend them if they happened to see us. They thanked me for my concern and avoided looking over the fence when we were in the pool. If you take this tack then the worst they can do is tell your other neighbors that you swim nude. On the other hand if they are interested, you can invite them for a swim party and after sufficient adult beverages suggest everyone take the suits off and get comfortable. Over time one thing may lead to another.

 

I'd be careful with the bolded part. As someone said earlier, if it takes them too many adult beverages to get in to things, they may regret it in the morning and you've got a larger problem on your hands.

[JM153 346]

Good point SA_NewtoLS

[SJBluebirds 195]

We had "that conversation" with our Best Friends a few years ago -- the "What do y'all feel about swinging?" one. This was the couple whom we wished we could play with. And it came up because there was a dust-up at a nearby nightclub that catered to Meet-n-greets, resulting in some LE-intervention that made the news, followed by an op-ed piece in the paper about the 'hidden swingers' in town.

 

So I (Mr. SJB) took the lead on answering. I said something like "We've talked about it. I think most couples do -- and now that it's in the news, well -- of course we talked."

 

Or something like that -- it's been a few years. "Or words to that effect," I guess.

 

I went on: "we did some reading, and it seems fairly mainstream, now. Sexuality is no longer the taboo topic it once was. And we learned there's soft-swap, full-swap, and all kinds in-between." I deflected it on them, asking "You're not asking us to swap with you two, are you?"

 

And of course they denied it. A little too strongly, I think. Maybe they were feeling us out. One can hope, right?

 

I went on: "We even learned about who you should swing with. People you get along with, who share your interests and values," (Obviously paraphrasing here, but I was describing our feelings for those two back to them) "You should look for playmates on-line or at clubs, because if things go sour, you don't want to risk a good friendship."

 

And then I dropped the bombshell: "But would we actually consider swapping with another couple? Well, if we didn't love you and so much, you two would be the first to know."

 

Some silence. And then the topic was changed. But it didn't negatively affect our friendship. In fact, I think we all became a little more flirtatious in our interactions when it was just the four of us -- but we never had any playtime with them, and it never came up again (although we were a bit more open about sex in our conversations -- a little more relaxed about it). I believe they took the hint that we could and would play with others, and possibly with them if the situation presented itself; and we got the unsaid feeling that they thought the same. But it was the 'we don't want to risk our friendship'-thing that ended the conversation.

 

And they have always been 'that couple' we fantasize about, and we do love them dearly. But the subject has been broached. And it has been laid to rest.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for your honest observations. Sorry for the delay in replying - I was flying back to the States and then spent some valuable time with Mr T. The consensus we reached is that we are just going to pursue a deeper friendship with them, and not broach anything else at all.

[Guest]

So we had the couple over for drinks and snacks last night. And they were as lovely as we thought. We have made new friends, and that is fantastic. But we will definitely live by the motto of "Make friends of swingers, not swingers out of friends." But we will have some friends who can hang out with us this summer pool-side.