Mixed Messages

[firebird09 37]

My boyfriend and I are a mature couple of 7 years and have been involved with the lifestyle for a couple of years. At first it was to test the waters and the excitement of being among others having sex was a thrill. We have been with a few different couples since but truly are still new to the couple play.

We have set boundaries, or shall I say, I have set boundaries. My partner tells me he has no boundaries that he knows of. My big thing is I don’t want to see him “make love” to another woman, for me that is what makes our sex life special and separate from what we do at the club. Not to mention I would be hurt to see that. We played with one couple and after all was said and done, my partner decided to hold her and tenderly kiss her in front of me and her husband. That threw me for a loop, to me it was a clear show of affection which crossed the line for me. We spoke about it afterwards, my partner always gets so defensive so the conversation was over about as fast as it started. Anyway, that has come and gone.

 

We recently played with another couple. The woman came over and was clearly interested in play with me and she said as much. So we did, she was a pretty woman and a fair few years younger than me. Her husband told us he loved to watch his wife play with another woman so we carried on. My partner then started to caress us, in particular her and I could tell by the look in her eyes that it was not really welcome. But my partner didn’t get it and continued. Eventually, he was all over her and I asked her husband if he wanted to play and he did because otherwise the two of us would have just sat there. One thing led to another, eventually another couple joined in which I didn’t like but they just kind of barged in. There was only oral sex between all of us, but I did not get another chance to play with the woman which I would have liked. Instead my partner seemed to monopolize her and again things got a little too affectionate. He would look over at me from time to time and assumed I was happy.

I am not sure how to handle this topic with my partner. He gets soooooo defensive and begins to let loose on me for what he sees as overreacting. Sometimes it feels as though I am just his ticket into the lifestyle, I am the one who garners the attention and he then basks in it. Kind of like a puppet you dress up, take out, show off and then reap the reward.

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

[Guest]

I'm a bit confused by this post because basically what your saying sounds like....

 

"Yeah I'm okay attending swingers clubs, I'm okay with meeting couples, It's perfectly fine if I fuck other men, I'm okay with other men stinking their dicks in me, and sure I also want to play with other women, I like having a good play with another girl, BUT NO my husband CAN NOT touch anyone else!!"

 

It almost sounds like you expect him to attend swingers clubs or meetings with couples and just sit there watching you have sex with different men and women and then after he is allowed to touch you. I'm mainly confused because you say "I'm his ticket into this lifestyle" but actually it seems to be the other way around, he is not actually allowed to touch anyone where you are, he seems to be your ticket into this lifestyle.

 

Perhaps I have got that wrong, perhaps I haven't got all the information, but generally I don't think couples meet each other only to have one person sat there not even able to do anything?

[EastInWest 1,524]

Perhaps I have got that wrong, perhaps I haven't got all the information, but generally I don't think couples meet each other only to have one person sat there not even able to do anything?

 

I found the OP difficult to parse because you always have to read between the lines when you're only getting one person's side of the story. Certain statements like "my partner always gets so defensive" or "I could tell by the look in her eyes that it was not really welcome. But my partner didn’t get it" could easily mean that the OP is seeing things through a lens of personal assumptions.

 

Mrs. E and I, one of our first couple friends, the wife was very chatty and would always spend too much time talking to me. I found it excessive, but not a big deal, and I'd make a point of being social with her. However, Mrs. E was certain that the husband would be convinced I was flirting with his wife and that I had to tone it down. I mostly kept quiet with her next time we met. Mrs. E thought I handled it perfectly, but two days later, embarrassed, she admitted that the husband had later asked why I was so quiet and if I was mad at his wife.

 

In the same way, when the OP says something like "I could tell she didn't want to play with him", but describes, moments later, them being all over each other and getting too affectionate... If she didn't want to play with him, presumably she would not? It reads like she might be projecting her own preferences a little.

 

There's not enough information here to really be sure who's thinking what.

[firebird09 37]

I'm a bit confused by this post because basically what your saying sounds like....

 

"Yeah I'm okay attending swingers clubs, I'm okay with meeting couples, It's perfectly fine if I fuck other men, I'm okay with other men stinking their dicks in me, and sure I also want to play with other women, I like having a good play with another girl, BUT NO my husband CAN NOT touch anyone else!!"

 

It almost sounds like you expect him to attend swingers clubs or meetings with couples and just sit there watching you have sex with different men and women and then after he is allowed to touch you. I'm mainly confused because you say "I'm his ticket into this lifestyle" but actually it seems to be the other way around, he is not actually allowed to touch anyone where you are, he seems to be your ticket into this lifestyle.

 

Perhaps I have got that wrong, perhaps I haven't got all the information, but generally I don't think couples meet each other only to have one person sat there not even able to do anything?

 

Well to set the record straight each time we play my partner is always engaged. To think he sits around and does nothing or that I expect him to is completely unjustified. The couple I am referring to was very polite and initiated the play upstairs. They were great with partner play as well, but at that moment the two of us, me and the woman, were engaged and wanting to play with each other, thus the look she gave my partner. The other woman plain out asked me right at the start if I wanted to play with her, there was no initial mention of her playing with my partner. We barely started to touch each other and my partner took right over leaving me sitting there wondering if the husband of the woman wanted to play with me. A very similar thing happened on our first couple experience as well. My partner knows it is a fantasy of mine to have a FFM experience and I just want a little taste of it before swapping partners.

And yes, my partner knows it is the woman that illicit all the attention so he definitely likes to have a say in what I wear. He likes the full swap as do I but it seems once we start play with the other couple there is no variance from that. Believe me, it is my partner that sets the tone of play.

 

I felt some anger in your response and I am not sure why or where that comes from. I just want to know how to delicately bring up with my partner that perhaps just on one occasion I would like to play with the other woman for more than one minute. I have no problem with him involving himself in our play, but I don't want him to remove me completely from the picture so he can please himself. Believe me, our play has centered around his fantasies, mine are still out there.

[firebird09 37]

Well to set the record straight each time we play my partner is always engaged. To think he sits around and does nothing or that I expect him to is completely unjustified. The couple I am referring to was very polite and initiated the play upstairs. They were great with partner play as well, but at that moment the two of us, me and the woman, were engaged and wanting to play with each other, thus the look she gave my partner. The other woman plain out asked me right at the start if I wanted to play with her, there was no initial mention of her playing with my partner. We barely started to touch each other and my partner took right over leaving me sitting there wondering if the husband of the woman wanted to play with me. A very similar thing happened on our first couple experience as well. My partner knows it is a fantasy of mine to have a FFM experience and I just want a little taste of it before swapping partners.

And yes, my partner knows it is the woman that illicit all the attention so he definitely likes to have a say in what I wear. He likes the full swap as do I but it seems once we start play with the other couple there is no variance from that. Believe me, it is my partner that sets the tone of play.

 

I felt some anger in your response and I am not sure why or where that comes from. I just want to know how to delicately bring up with my partner that perhaps just on one occasion I would like to play with the other woman for more than one minute. I have no problem with him involving himself in our play, but I don't want him to remove me completely from the picture so he can please himself. Believe me, our play has centered around his fantasies, mine are still out there.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

We have set boundaries, or shall I say, I have set boundaries. My partner tells me he has no boundaries that he knows of.

 

Swinging is a team activity. Your boundaries should also be his boundaries. If one person says no to something, then you are BOTH saying no...always...no repercussions or reasons needed. If one of you says no or sets a boundary, then that is the boundary for both of you PERIOD. He needs to be made aware of this.

 

My big thing is I don’t want to see him “make love” to another woman, for me that is what makes our sex life special and separate from what we do at the club.

 

We understand what you are saying here. Making love and having sex isn't the same thing. One is fun while the other is intimate. You both should talk about the differences so he has a better understanding of what the differences are.

 

We spoke about it afterwards, my partner always gets so defensive so the conversation was over about as fast as it started.

 

This is (at least) a yellow flag. You both need to trust each other totally and be able to tell the other anything and everything. Since it sounds like this isn't the case (his defensiveness stops you from talking about something disturbing you) you need to fix this issue before continuing. Love/trust/communication: you must have all three in abundance to be successful in swinging.

 

My partner then started to caress us, in particular her and I could tell by the look in her eyes that it was not really welcome. But my partner didn’t get it and continued.

 

Even with play partners that we have known for years, we both ASK PERMISSION before we start initiating contact with a different partner (and they do the same). 'Is it okay if I touch as well?' is just politeness. In this case, a 'we're not quite done with each other yet' should have been enough to tell him to at least wait. He needs to be reminded to use his manors when asking to borrow the next door neighbors lawn mower...or his neighbors wife, and not take it personally if the answer is 'I'm using it right now, you can borrow it when we're done'.

 

He gets soooooo defensive and begins to let loose on me for what he sees as overreacting.

 

Yellow flag is now red. You two are teammates and it doesn't sound like he wants to be on your team. My SO is the most important thing in my life and I would never do anything to hurt her...even a little. If she were to say we need to stop this, I would in a second and never look back. I would never make her feel bad about wanting to talk with me about anything. Great communication is a requirement to a strong relationship, swingers or not, but especially if you are swinging. If he doesn't understand this, then you probably need to at least take a break from swinging until you get the communication issue fixed.

 

My partner knows it is a fantasy of mine to have a FFM experience and I just want a little taste of it before swapping partners.

 

That is so hot...sorry, side tracked. The most important thing to me is to see that my partner has a great time and is able to fulfill her fantasies. Second is that the other woman also is having a great time. Last comes me having a great time (because if your partner had a great time, and the other woman had a great time, how is it possible for me NOT to have a great time?). She (my SO) is the most important thing to me and will always come first. It sounds like he needs to be reminded of this. It's not just about him, it's about both of you having a great time together. Men who think it's all about themselves usually end up alone with them self. Work on your communication. Maybe even bring him here and show him this thread. We would love to hear his side as well. Good luck and let us know how things are progressing.

[dan63 106]

I think I have to take GoldCoCouple's side on this one. If we ran into you guys at a club and you and my wife agreed to play and we were watching, if he jumped into the middle of it and started groping my wife I think I would have to say something. That is just not good LS manners. I'm honestly not sure if he has the maturity to be in the LS. Maybe someday, but his actions now say otherwise.

[firebird09 37]

Thank you for the informed reply, it is most helpful. I think my partner and I need to have a calm and gentle talk about what it is we both want out of play. This needs to happen as a very separate conversation that is not after playing at the club. I am concerned and a bit anxious to have this chat as my boyfriend does get defensive and will look for ways to turn it on me. He is a fantastic man in so many ways and I don't want to hurt him, but I think we need to chat. I think I will show him this post as it has helped me a lot, just a little concerned with some of the other comments which seem to paint him a victim of my lustiness! lol

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

This needs to happen as a very separate conversation that is not after playing at the club.

 

Absolutely!

 

I am concerned and a bit anxious to have this chat as my boyfriend does get defensive and will look for ways to turn it on me.

 

This is NOT a sign of a loving and trusting relationship and shows that there is a huge lack of communication going on here. This is more of a sign of insecurity and childish behavior on his part.

 

He is a fantastic man in so many ways and I don't want to hurt him, but I think we need to chat.

 

And yet he has no problem with hurting you.

 

I think I will show him this post as it has helped me a lot, just a little concerned with some of the other comments which seem to paint him a victim of my lustiness!

 

When it comes to swinging, just about every guy knows it's the woman who is in control of everything (or at least she should be). The guys are usually just ecstatic that their relationship is great enough that they can be doing this together as a couple. Any man who doesn't feel this way most likely thinks the sun still revolves around him as well. He's a damn lucky guy and needs to be reminded. If he can't play by the rules (and the rules should always be set by the slowest member), then he shouldn't be able to play at all. I'm not trying to be harsh on him, but he needs to realize how fortunate he is to have a woman and a relationship that is traveling down this path.

 

BTW, lustiness is very sexy in a woman. Good luck with your talk and please let us know how things turn out.

[Initwithher 40]

This was our first couple swap me and my wife, how it started was I know she loves female body, and it's a huge turn on for me, when she started to play with the female of the couple I and the other partner male half we just watched them taking turns pleasuring each other then the male of other couple joined in with out asking permission from eather of us , at that time he was declined by my wife and he's wife , he continued to just play with he's wife then I went to my wife playing with her without destruction of her playing with other female, never did anything with other wife, things got heated and heavy I heard my wife asking her if she would like it I went down on her , other wife replied happily yes, and I started playing with her , then my wife asked me if I like her to give me a BJ, reasoning was they both stated before that she was really good at it, and I agreed, yes she was great at it, but everything was done by asking first, little respect goes a long way, as other post stated would you your neighbors lawnmower to use it while he's using it?? You will ask if you could when he's done,. Hope this helps your situation

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

Some people give, others take. Givers (especially those with good manors) usually end up in the long run getting at least as much as they gave...(IMHO)