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Woman arrested in Texas for selling sex toys

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Incredible. And I thought the British were repressed when it came to matters of sexuality. Will the prosecutors be seeking to have Ms Webb deported to Guantanamo Bay before her trial?

 

A convicted drink-driver can become President, but a woman who sells marital aids can look forward to a year in the clink and a $4000 fine.

 

Go figure.

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Makes me wonder...........how many real crimes were committed in this town while the officers were making their purchases? I've never hear of a sex toy killing anyone!!!

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Some shops in Texas are getting around this law by selling dildoes and vibrators as "educational condom demonstration models". It's amazing what the government can get involved in these days.

 

"He who sacrifices freedom for security is neither free nor secure." — Benjamin Franklin

 

That country which sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither — Thomas Jefferson (para.)

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I belong to a different board and all I will say is I know the person involved. So any support is appreciated.

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Originally posted by Slofut

I belong to a different board and all I will say is I know the person involved. So any support is appreciated.

 

Yes and so do we... However, we don't want this issue specifically associated with the lifestyle (swinging) as such and would prefer it be dealt with on it's own. That is, an abuse of our personal rights...

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Remember - the only way to have such laws removed properly and efficiently is to challenge them in court.

 

When someone is charged with one of these "crimes", it's up to we Americans that care about our privacy to make sure that the world hears what has happened and that we encourage the use of descriptors like "archaic" and "draconian" but also "narrow-minded", "backward", or even "stupid" and "asinine" when we write about it.

 

So now it's up to each of us to write a commentary or editorial somewhere and decry the "stupidity and waste running rampant in yet another Texas city..." Maybe a recall of the local State's attorney is in order....

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Since ignorance of the law is no excuse ---

 

from the Texas code section 43:

 

7) "Obscene device" means a device including a dildo or artificial vagina, designed or marketed as useful primarily for the stimulation of human genital organs.

 

 

There are a variety of codes which this "obscene device" could be used in -- including distribution (an offense more egregious in Texas than selling pot) or even display (don't let anyone see your toys ladies)

 

Section 43 defines "promote" as (5) "Promote" means to manufacture, issue, sell, give, provide, lend, mail, deliver, transfer, transmit, publish, distribute, circulate, disseminate, present, exhibit, or advertise, or to offer or agree to do the same.

 

and further specifies a charge if you:

1) promotes or possesses with intent to promote any obscene material or obscene device; or

 

Therefore: it is clearly against the law (a class A misdemeanor) in the Great State of Texas to give your wife a dildo.

 

further:

f) A person who possesses six or more obscene devices or identical or similar obscene articles is presumed to possess them with intent to promote the same.

 

Which means, ladies, if you own six or more sex toys then you are presumed to be one of those abhorrent Dildo Promoters.

 

Unless you get a note from your doctor:

 

(g) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the person who possesses or promotes material or a device proscribed by this section does so for a bona fide medical, psychiatric, judicial, legislative, or law enforcement purpose.

 

Therefor - if someone can get a Psychiatrist or physician in Texas to write that "use of dildos is good for you..." then he can then "promote" them in that state as for a bonafide medical purpose. But, get a letter first.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl:

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Thanks for the info. We usually take a few toys with us when we travel, so it's good to know that if we go through Texas, we'll need a doctor to sign off on them if we have more than six.

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You all missed one very important point of the arrest. If convicted she will be placed on the sex offender registry. Being convicted as a sex offender has far worse consequences then the arrest alone. It creates problems in finding and keeping jobs, property values in that neighborhood decline, the home owners association can ask them to move out and it can create problems for themselves and others around them.

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Now, on a side thought about how to get such insane laws removed; the Salem Witchcraft Delusions ended when the Governor's wife was accused as a witch. Wonder if any purveyor of obscene devices can document the interstate transport of such devices by any member of a significant Texas family.... hehehehe

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I just read this thread and was shocked. I've never heard of such a thing. Didn't realize you could be arrested for selling sex toys. There are a lot of laws out there that are deemed silly or stupid by most....yet if you don't have a big enough lobby to fight it, nothing changes. The gay and lesbian groups around the country fight every day for change. Drug laws are considered by many to be over the top and a waste of money. What about prostitution...the worlds oldest profession. How about alternative energy sources. How about the woman's right to choose. I could go on and on with examples both large and small.

 

Religious organizations, tobacco and petroleum companies in this country have too much power cause they have the most money and the largest lobbies. Some of these problems are not only nation wide but global. I may be way off base here but the way I see it the people of our great country do it to themselves. We as a people keep saying that in order for change you need to vote. While that may be true it's only partly true at best. It is not possible to elect a representative to support everyone's issues all the time. There are always issues that they disagree with you on. So as voters we are forced to make compromises. In a world as complex as ours has become I don't feel that the peoples voice is being heard as it should. With the computer age upon us it seems like we should have a vote on everything that comes down the pike. Or do we trust Local and National government to keep telling us what we are in favor of or what we don't want? I think something needs to change...what/who will they come after next?

 

Maybe it's time "lifestylers" unite and form a lobby of their own. Could be that the next time you are at a party or function, someone looking to get their name in the paper or a few extra conservative votes will be breaking down the door calling all of us sex offenders. Then what? Sorry to stand on the soap box so long...my 2 cents

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Before any Californians get to worrying too much about our laws, you might try repealing a few of your own.

 

Yes, we have some dumb laws, but so does the rest of the world. BTW, the lady does not live in Fort Worth, she lives in a small town near FW.

 

Our state legislature will not meet for another year and a half, but rest assured, the law will change when it does. In the mean time, don't fret...the lady will not be convicted, nor will she be dubbed a sex offender and she's getting loads of free advertising.

 

In California, it is illegal to posses bear gall bladders.

In California, it is illegal to trip horses for entertainment.

In Blythe, California, a person must own two cows in order to legally wear cowboy boots in public.

In Los Angeles, a man is legally entitled to beat his wife with a leather belt or strap, but the belt can't be wider than 2 inches, unless he has his wife's consent to beat her with a wider strap. (Loony Laws" by Robert Pelton)

It is illegal to set a mousetrap without a hunting license.

Community leaders passed an ordinance that makes it illegal for anyone to try and stop a child from playfully jumping over puddles of water.

In L.A. it is against the law to complain through the mail that a hotel has cockroaches, even if it is true.

It is illegal to drive more than two thousand sheep down Hollywood Blvd. at one time.

It is illegal to whistle for a lost canary before 7 am in Berkeley, CA.

San Francisco is said to be the only city in the nation to have ordinances guaranteeing sunshine to the masses.

In Cupertino, California, it is illegal to count backwards audibly in hexadecimal.

The good burghers of Redwood City have outlawed the frying of gravy.

In Santa Clara, it is forbidden to dedicate parking spaces to the patron saint of television.

Prostitutes in San Francisco are not obliged to make change for bills larger than $50.

The city of Mountain View proscribes calling pet fish by "names of aggressive content, e.g. 'Biter', 'Killer', 'Sugar-Ray'"

Bicycles may not be ridden without "appropriate fashion accessories" anywhere in Santa Clara County (de facto law).

It is illegal to skateboard on walls "or other vertical surfaces" in Palo Alto.

Wearing a sweatshirt inside-out is deemed a "threatening misdemeanor" in Half-Moon Bay.

In 1930, the City Council of Ontario (California) passed an ordinance forbidding roosters to crow within the city limits.

In Los Angeles, you cannot bathe two babies in the same tub at the same time. (Loony Laws" by Robert Pelton)

In California, animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship. (Loony Laws" by Robert Pelton)

Peeling an orange in your hotel room is banned in California (Legal Lunacy)

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Originally posted by 2New2it

....

Our state legislature will not meet for another year and a half, but rest assured, the law will change when it does. In the mean time, don't fret...the lady will not be convicted, nor will she be dubbed a sex offender and she's getting loads of free advertising.

...

I sure hope you're right... :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by 2New2it

Before any Californians get to worrying too much about our laws, you might try repealing a few of your own.

 

Good lord, 2New2it... why not just call the kettle black? Texas has more asinine laws like this on the books than any other state in the union!

 

BUT... the issue is not that these laws exist: The issue is that these laws are still on the books and are being enforced to catch otherwise innocent people in an effort to gain public sentiment.

 

Some of these laws are over a hundred years old and realistically can only be enforced if we turn the clock back 50-100 years. An example is that sheep drive in LA - that was most likely written in the 30s or 40s at a time when farms still co-existed with Hollywood. Some poor farmer probably was taking his sheep to market and happened to take Hollywood Blvd, forever to be known as the reason for this particular law. Sadly, several states actually have a commission or office who's sole purpose in life is to mine through all the laws that have been enacted, back so far as the early 1700s, just to see if they can catch someone that is otherwise not breaking any law. Remember Al Capone... that's what happened to him - the law couldn't actually tie him to any murders or any law-breaking, so they used a very old and out-dated tax law to catch him.

 

Alternate lifestylers, as a community, should stop the damn internal bickering - whether meant tongue in cheek or not - and band together as a cohesive unit to fight these inane, out-dated and otherwise unenforceable laws once and for all! Fighting or even joking between ourselves serves one purpose - it distracts all of us from the real enemy - and offers the enemy time to make more laws that take our freedoms from us.

 

Oh... one more thing - just so that you know how incredible TX lawmakers can be - the link supplied by Brad & Janet shows a law that was RECENTLY passed in TX:

A recently passed anticrime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed.

Kettle? Black? What was that about CA?

 

Let's all just stop the arguing amongst ourselves and do whatever can be done to unite and fight as one!

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As I said in my response, stupid laws exist all over the world and you have no clue which state has the most stupid laws, either in number or content.

 

My opinion of NJ laws means nothing, so I won't comment on them and I would expect the same favor. We'll take care of our laws and you take care of yours.

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Okay, everyone has talked to death the stupidity of these laws, but here is the most important question - How do I find someone willing to put one of these "home" sales shows on for us?

 

I can't imagine a better ice-breaker at a private party with 3 or 4 couples than having this lady come show us her wares - I'm serious!

 

We are in West Texas/Southern New Mexico - Is there anyone out here that we can get in touch with?

 

What Fun! :cool:

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Originally posted by 2New2it

My opinion of NJ laws means nothing, so I won't comment on them and I would expect the same favor. We'll take care of our laws and you take care of yours.

 

It is this exact response that keeps so many of us that are swingers from telling the truth when it comes to being accepted by those that are not into the lifestyle. So long as you take care of your own laws and we take care of ours, there will NEVER be a common ground on which to stand! And without common ground, the alternate lifestyles, swinging in particular, will NEVER GAIN ACCEPTANCE IN THE PUBLIC EYE IN AMERICA!

 

We should take a lesson from the gays and lesbians - by banding together, they have become much more accepted these days... even getting laws passed specifically relating to their sexual preference! They have been accepted MUCH more quickly than any swinger ever will until we get our shit together and band together as ONE COHESIVE UNIT AIMING FOR THE SAME GOAL! Playing petty games like this will only serve to provide easier and larger targets for those people that already stand against our general acceptance by the public!

 

Perhaps our parents were right so many years ago... if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Until swingers as a whole can stop bickering between each other on such trivial shit, we're destined to be outcasts in the community, never to be accepted for our sexual preferences.

 

soapbox ... leaving now.

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It's not just swingers, it's is and has been about every group you can think of.

 

Christians being tossed to lions, the crusades, blacks, jews, mormons were declared fair game, literally in Missouri, muslims and arabs after 9-11.

 

I don't expect it to get better. There will always be people who think its the right thing to do to persecute others because they don't like their color, sexual orientation, religion, culture or the shape of their nose.

 

As Rick Nelson so aptly put it in his hit song...........

You can't please every one so you got to please yourself.........

 

Of course it's more fun pleasing a buncha people at once ;)

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Perhaps what needs to be considered is not how many archaic laws a state/country has, but how many officials it has who are eager - even frantic - to enforce those laws?

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I believe a major reason old, stupid laws are retained is lobbying from the people who enforce them. The more laws, the more need for judges, lawyers, policemen, prison guards, etc. Thus, those in the industry keep their jobs because they have something to do.

 

A friend, a police detective, once told me, "If drugs were legalized, I'd be out of a job." He went on to explain that he felt 80% (I thought that figure a bit high...) of crime would go away. He said he would never suggest legalization at the police station, that such a statement would be taken as "sacrilegious."

 

Even now, laws are being enacted on both a state and national level, the only purpose of which is to enhance the profits of industry, create more government jobs and give government more control over our personal lives.

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Originally posted by BiCoupleNJ

It is this exact response that keeps so many of us that are swingers from telling the truth when it comes to being accepted by those that are not into the lifestyle. So long as you take care of your own laws and we take care of ours, there will NEVER be a common ground on which to stand! And without common ground, the alternate lifestyles, swinging in particular, will NEVER GAIN ACCEPTANCE IN THE PUBLIC EYE IN AMERICA!

 

We should take a lesson from the gays and lesbians - by banding together, they have become much more accepted these days... even getting laws passed specifically relating to their sexual preference! They have been accepted MUCH more quickly than any swinger ever will until we get our shit together and band together as ONE COHESIVE UNIT AIMING FOR THE SAME GOAL! Playing petty games like this will only serve to provide easier and larger targets for those people that already stand against our general acceptance by the public!

 

Perhaps our parents were right so many years ago... if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Until swingers as a whole can stop bickering between each other on such trivial shit, we're destined to be outcasts in the community, never to be accepted for our sexual preferences.

 

soapbox ... leaving now.

 

If anyone thinks that swinging will ever become an acceptable activity in the eyes of the general public, they are dreaming.

 

My sexual interests are not the result of some genetic miswiring or product of my upbringing, it's a choice I make because I enjoy it. I fully realize that my activities are opposed by virtually every major religion in the world, but I respect them enough that I would never ask anyone to violate their faith or the teachings of their culture in order to make me feel good.

 

The only laws I will oppose are those that restrict consenting adults from participating in the sexual activities of their choice...as long as it affects no one else. And I will do that through the ballot box, not in the streets.

 

If my representative voted for the existing sex-toy law, she will be informed of my opposition to that silly law. But, I'm not a one-issue voter and my vote goes to the person with whom I most closely agree. She and I stand very close on most issues and if our one disagreement is the sex toy issue, I will still vote for her. That's how a representative form of government works.

 

Cultures vary from state to state and city to city and I respect that also. If Burleson, TX decides they do not want anyone to sell sex toys in their city, fine, I'll stay out of Burleson, TX.

 

It would be ridiculous to suggest that swinging is deserving of a great social movement to garner acceptance. It's an activity that despite a few goofy laws, still exists and thrives among those who choose to participate. That's good enough for me and I will work around the regional cultural differences.

 

The last thing I would do is band together with anyone to promote my sexual interests!

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All over the fine state of Texas, adult oriented stores sell these devices below a sign marked "Sold as a Novelty Only"

 

That apparently defeats the law and allows there sale.

 

Strange!

 

Now, regarding asinine laws... All of us need to be aware of the abilities of the common people to change the laws of this country. Not only in the Ballot Box, but in the Jury Box!

 

Jury Nullification is a very real tool that allows us to find laws, that we feel are wrong, to be thrown out!

 

Check out The Fully Informed Jury or any one of hundreds of sites that discuss YOUR Rights as a jurist.

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Originally posted by Tom & Bonnie

Jury Nullification is a very real tool that allows us to find laws, that we feel are wrong, to be thrown out!

 

Hmm... only trouble now is to get called to jury duty! :D

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Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC

...and simply being aware of the concept of jury nullification is enough to have a person removed from many courts. There are even examples of people who explained the concept to fellow jurors being held in contempt of court... :(

 

 

True, but there is no requirement to admit to knowing about Jury Nullification in the selection process..

 

The most important part is just knowing that it is your duty as a juror to question the law based on your conscience.

 

And, as far as a juror being found in contempt of court? Me thinks that you're msitaken.... A juror cannot be found in contempt of court and if he were the Judge would have this case reheard for unlawful practices....

 

In 1972 the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals held that the trial jury has an "...unreviewable and irreversible power...to acquit in disregard of the instruction on the law given by the trial judge. The pages of history shine upon instances of the jury's exercise of its prerogative to disregard instructions of the judge; for example, acquittals under the fugitive slave law (473F 2d1113)

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Quote

 

Originally posted by 2new2it

 

The last thing I would do is band together with anyone to promote my sexual interests!

 

 

Remember this when you can no longer swing without fear of persecution. I don't know who to give credit to for this quote but it applies here "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."

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Originally posted by bill&sabrina

Originally posted by 2new2it

 

The last thing I would do is band together with anyone to promote my sexual interests!

 

Remember this when you can no longer swing without fear of persecution. I don't know who to give credit to for this quote but it applies here "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."

 

Get real...swinging is a personal choice, not a genetically-driven need, God-given right, or constitutional guarantee and if the majority of people in a state or country decide it should be illegal, tough for us.

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the majority of people don't get to make those kinds of choices....it's your representatives. They won't put the issue to a vote in the general public!!!

 

Do you think the MAJORITY of Americans in this country are against Gay and Lesbian marriage?? I personally do not. I feel the reason it hasn't gotten any support in Govt. is our representatives don't want the heat that will come from the conservative right. NO BALLS.... There are so many groups in this country with personal agendas it's rediculous. Some are relatively small but have lots of cash....they have a voice because the politicians want the contribution/payoff.

 

Many, many things are force fed to us that the majority do not agree with 100%. Once people are elected by the people the majority doesn't have any pull at all. The Majority is not united therefore has no financial contributions. All we do is vote and even then you are stuck...either you vote your conscious or you vote for the canidate that "most closely matches" your views. Doesn't this bother you? I for one don't like being the sheep in the flock. Following along just because the rest of the sheep don't pull together and force change. The take what your given attitude is defeatist. You will lose out big time in the long run. If you don't stand up for what you believe in, you are standing for that which you oppose.

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Originally posted by 2New2it

Get real...swinging is a personal choice, not a genetically-driven need, God-given right, or constitutional guarantee and if the majority of people in a state or country decide it should be illegal, tough for us.

 

Once again, you are showing what is wrong with America and, perhaps, the world today - complete and total indifference... a complete lack of concern for your own rights and liberties.

 

There is a morning drive time radio host in NJ that has you described to a T - a sheep. Yep, you are, like so many others these days, not willing to step up for your own rights and fight for what is rightfully yours. No sir. You'd much rather sit back and let someone else do the fighting for you, or just take the spurious laws that are written by our government as gospel. And, when those people fighting for rights to make a personal choice fail, all you'll do is sit back and say "Oh well, I wasn't really interested in that anyway." Like a sheep, you'll follow the crowd, always feeling as if the crowd knows the right way and what is right for you, forever casting negative glances towards those that stand up for the right to choose what goes on behind closed doors, in the company of consenting adults.

 

Oh lord... did you just hear that rumble? That was George, Thomas, Ben... and my ggggggggrandfather John and so many more patriots rolling over in their graves. Why? They fought for the right to freedom. They fought to ensure that we, as a country, had the right to choose. They put their lives on the line to make sure that we could enjoy... what was it? Oh yeah... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

Does swinging not fall under the 'pursuit of happiness' in your world? Perhaps not, but it does in mine. And in Liz's. And I would go so far as to suggest the same for the 5- to 7-million other swingers in the US. And, before you step up on to your own soapbox and argue that the founding fathers did not have swinging or sexual freedom in mind when the Declaration of Independence was written, I ask of you, How do you know? Are you sure that they didn't have that in mind? I did not think so.

 

I close by saying, simply, if you do not feel the desire to fight for your rights to selecting who shares your intimate times, that is fine. That is your prerogative and your choice. However, do not, under any circumstances, argue that those of us who DO feel it is our right to swing, are in the wrong, for we are only choosing to exercise that right given to us by the Declaration of Independence and by our forefathers - freedom of choice!

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Originally posted by 2new2it

 

Get real...swinging is a personal choice, not a genetically-driven need, God-given right, or constitutional guarantee and if the majority of people in a state or country decide it should be illegal, tough for us.

 

 

Swinging is a personal choice and I won't dispute that at all. I do however think that you haven't thought out your other statements. Will you dispute the fact that men are genetically driven to spread their seed to ensure the survival of the species? This isn't common practice because is doesn't have to be, but it is how we as men are hard wired. One can make a very strong legitimate argument that swinging allows men to fulfill this "need". I apologize to the women for not having an argument to support your involvement in swinging.

 

The following is quoted directly from the Declaration of Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

Swinging makes a lot of people happy so that makes it a God given right if you ask me . No committing murder isn't in mine or most anyone else's book a God given right because it infringes on someone else's God given right to life.

 

The Supreme Court gave swingers or anyone else that wants to participate in a non harmful act in privacy a powerful tool in the recent ruling against the Texas sodomy law. A ruling that was based on Constitutional rights I might add.

 

Last but not least. It took a majority of people to want the law in Texas passed in the first place, and it was deemed Un-Constitutional. So no it isn't tough for us. You might have a tough time swinging if a law against it is passed where you live, but me or someone like me will stand up for everyone's Constitutional right and fight it until it is struck down.

 

I look forward to your reasons to remain silent while everyday our rights to happiness are slowly eroded away.

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Originally posted by BiCoupleNJ

Once again, you are showing what is wrong with America and, perhaps, the world today - complete and total indifference... a complete lack of concern for your own rights and liberties.

 

There is a morning drive time radio host in NJ that has you described to a T - a sheep. Yep, you are, like so many others these days, not willing to step up for your own rights and fight for what is rightfully yours. No sir. You'd much rather sit back and let someone else do the fighting for you, or just take the spurious laws that are written by our government as gospel. And, when those people fighting for rights to make a personal choice fail, all you'll do is sit back and say "Oh well, I wasn't really interested in that anyway." Like a sheep, you'll follow the crowd, always feeling as if the crowd knows the right way and what is right for you, forever casting negative glances towards those that stand up for the right to choose what goes on behind closed doors, in the company of consenting adults.

 

Oh lord... did you just hear that rumble? That was George, Thomas, Ben... and my ggggggggrandfather John and so many more patriots rolling over in their graves. Why? They fought for the right to freedom. They fought to ensure that we, as a country, had the right to choose. They put their lives on the line to make sure that we could enjoy... what was it? Oh yeah... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

Does swinging not fall under the 'pursuit of happiness' in your world? Perhaps not, but it does in mine. And in Liz's. And I would go so far as to suggest the same for the 5- to 7-million other swingers in the US. And, before you step up on to your own soapbox and argue that the founding fathers did not have swinging or sexual freedom in mind when the Declaration of Independence was written, I ask of you, How do you know? Are you sure that they didn't have that in mind? I did not think so.

 

I close by saying, simply, if you do not feel the desire to fight for your rights to selecting who shares your intimate times, that is fine. That is your prerogative and your choice. However, do not, under any circumstances, argue that those of us who DO feel it is our right to swing, are in the wrong, for we are only choosing to exercise that right given to us by the Declaration of Independence and by our forefathers - freedom of choice!

 

I spent 25 years in the military defending your right to make such idiotic assumptions, so don't preach to me about not having the balls to stand up for my rights. But the one thing I'm capable of discerning is the difference between rights and wants.

 

If anyone is able to enact legislation to outlaw swinging, the law will be tested in court. If it passes constitutional muster, we have the choice of ceasing the activity, or breaking the law. I really could care less what you do in that case and I don't know what I would do. In the meantime, I'm not going to sit around wringing my hands over unfounded fears that someone is out to take my fun away, nor am I going to march in the streets with signs demanding that others happily accept my sexual activities as mainstream.

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Originally posted by 2new2it

 

I spent 25 years in the military defending your right to make such idiotic assumptions, so don't preach to me about not having the balls to stand up for my rights.

 

 

You protected our rights to make idiotic assumptions huh. Against who? I was alive for everyone of those 25 years and don't ever remember anybody making a legitimate run at overthrowing this country and and the wonderful foundation on which it stands. Yeah we were at a Cold War with the Soviet Union during that time, but it was a pissing contest that we won in 1962 with the Cuban Missile Crisis. The last time the people of this country really had to worry about maybe having the rights that they enjoyed placed in jeopardy from a foreign invader was WWII. That took place about 30 years before you were running around acting like a soldier.

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Good job, you just insulted the 110,000 plus Americans who have died wearing the uniform of this country since the end of WWII. I guess the causes they died for weren't quite as important as your right to be a happy swinger.

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Isn't it about time to end the ugliness of this debate that has now evolved to name-calling and questioning of patriotism, etc.? If 2New2It spent 25 years in the military in any capacity, I think it is a low blow to him and all others who have worn military uniforms to state he was "running around acting like a soldier." Personally, coming from a military family, I find that offensive as I'm certain many others do.

 

Many good points have been brought out, and I for one have learned a few things (I particularly enjoyed reading several different articles on the jury nullification issues), but I find the good points and points that some of us need to be made more aware of are being lost in some of the rhetoric.

 

Swinging is a choice and I personally don't see it as a "God given right." And quite frankly, I for one believe there are far more pertinent issues that we as a society need to deal with under the guise of "God given rights." But that is just my opinion. If some talk show host wants to describe me as a "sheep" because I don't care to be a flag-waving proponent of swingers rights, so be it. That fact alone is by far my most "God given right." I don't have to risk personal reputation, family, or societal pressures to achieve something in which I don't place a huge amount of value in the first place.

 

How about continuing the debate...interesting and worthwhile material...but dispense with the nastiness? Many of us can't get beyond that, with the result that we lose the opportunity to learn what would be most valuable.

 

Thanks!

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I agree with many on this board -- it is ambivalence (sp) that causes us to lose rights and freedom. It is a failure to act that allows a tyrant (not pointing any fingers) to trample rights. When the people (all of the people) react then the tyrant can't win.

 

The idea that "majority rules" as an accepted solution though IS NOT an American ideal. Majority doesn't rule -- certain inalienable rights are the rule -- rights that should never be surrendered even by "majority consent". While we have certain rights enumerated in the Constitution -- this doesn't spell out the extent of rights. It merely stipulates a few. The right to the privacy of my bedroom has been upheld recently in the courts...

 

Just a few thoughts....

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To both BiCouple and Bill especially (but others, too)...ya'll both feel quite strongly about rights of swingers, etc., and apparently feel swinging should be brought out of the closet and into the mainstream.

 

So, quite simply...how do you propose that should happen? In fact, because this thread started as Tom's thing on Sex Toys, I'm going to start a new thread...in the General Swinging Forum.

 

I'd be really interested in seeing the discussion. (No name calling please - it really bothers me! :) ) - EBF

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Because I made the comment that swinging is a personal decision, not a right, I was immediately jumped on and told that I am what's wrong with America..that I'm a sheep..that I sit back and let someone else do my fighting...and that I'm unwilling to stand up for my convictions.

 

I'll be anxiously awaiting the million swinger march on Washington where perhaps I will see some of you on C-span demanding that the nation embrace your God-given, Constitutional right to swing. Somehow, I think Letterman and Leno are gleefully looking forward to that one.

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I for one did not mean to offend anyone or question anyones patriotism. I am truly sorry if I have done either or both.

 

My only point was that rights and liberties in this country have historically been "fought" for. Some with weapons, some in court, some in marches with signs and slogans. My mistake was to add some analigies to my posts. I am not suggesting that we should petion Congress for a swinging law, all I was saying is that if you wait till they come for you, you have waited to long. I'm not much of a marcher or a picketer either...some day the issue will come up and we all will have a decision to make. There are people accross this land that criticize decisions made by our Government....some are ridiculed, some are hearalded as great thinkers. Opinions vary...that is a fact. I think this thread got a little out of hand and off the point. The point was in my opinion, whether or not you have the right to sell a perfectly legal device to consenting adults....Sex toys are legal...right? Even in Texas...I mean they allow them to be shipped legally into the state don't they? That fact alone should get the case thrown out. Allowing the import and not allowing the sale seems just a bit hypocritical.

 

If I made no sense...I apologise....long night....Happy New Year by the way

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If the Justice of a country have nothing better to do than prosecute this woman then the Justice is mad... If the politicians of Texas have nothing better to do than legislate about what kind of pleasure is right and what kind of pleasure is obscene and wrong then those politicians are really mad... If the police of Texas has nothing better to do than arrest a woman who sells dildos then the police is mad... This is just pitiful and so ridiculous!

 

Frederic Auguste Bartholdi who is the french sculptor who created the statue of the Liberty should have put in her hand - in place of the torch - a huge dildo... in order to fuck the narrow minded puritans and claim the rights for a sexual freedom :fun:

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I know a few toy sellers where I live. One actually lives on the local military base because her husband. She tells us stories of how when they search her car they always seem to turn on a vibrator.

 

They are more scared of things that vibrate than things that tick. When her vibrators go off, they hold a gun to her and make her stand against the car...she always tells them its a dildo, but they have to open her suitcase of toys up to figure it out. And when they do, oh my do they blush!

 

I think that people should be able to buy toys, no matter what or where they get them from. It's like telling people masturbation is illegal...hmmmm now would the people feel about that one.

 

Anyways, it is a sad day in the justice system when somebody is not allowed to buy legalized products to citezens. No matter the merchandise.

 

There is my few cents..hehe

~Jenn

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I would wager that you could do a web search and in just a few minutes find lots of places where masturbation is illegal.

 

You can plan on anything that is fun being outlawed.

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Originally posted by turkeytrack

I would wager that you could do a web search and in just a few minutes find lots of places where masturbation is illegal.

 

You can plan on anything that is fun being outlawed.

I am curious to know whose States are so backward to declare masturbation as illegal and how they can prove that You are masturbating if it's done in the privacy of your home ?...

 

Well after a first very fast search I found that masturbation is "legal" in Canada but the sell of videos showing this - or even the fact to watch such videos is illegal - which is totally hypocrite and stupid. In France no such legislation fortunately.

 

What about other countries?

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Originally posted by Uneed_Love

I am curious to know whose States are so backward to declare masturbation as illegal and how they can prove that You are masturbating if it's done in the privacy of your home?

 

Although I don't really want to take the time to do a search, I am certain that there ARE laws on the books at the state, county and local levels that forbid masturbation. It is the same mindset that has written sodomy laws that has written masturbation laws in this world. Once again, it is the religious right trying to impart their religious beliefs and morals on those of us that aren't part of their 'flock'.

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I think that the definition of sodomy is.........

 

:nono:

 

If it feels good :D

 

and it doesn't get you pregnant

 

It's sodomy :bricks:

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I am not sure of a state that declares masturbation as illegal, but I do know that Arizona does have a law against anal sex. And also has another law against 2 people of the opposite sex living together and not being married.

 

I know Arizona isnt the only state with outrageous laws like this. I wonder what other states have these types of laws...hmmmm.

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What lots of folks might be forgetting when it comes to these rather inane laws is that, once a law is passed, it is considered a valid, enforceable law until a time that it is either rescinded or superseded by a newer law on the same subject. As a result, some of the laws that are currently on the books are from the 1800s, often written to disallow a specific act. For example, in Texas, it is illegal for one to shoot a buffalo from the second story of a hotel. Uh... mind telling me where in TX you'll find a buffalo that is trotting around a hotel? LOL.

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Couldn't help but laugh--in spite of the sad and unfortunate circumstances of the subject--when I woke up this morning just in time to see a "Good Morning America" promo on this story.

 

Apparently Joanne Webb is not going down without a fight, taking her plight to a national audience. I say more power to her!

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Good for her!!! Seems to me it's more of a freedom of speech thing now. She can sell them just not tell people how to use them. Isn't that sort of like telling men to take Viagra and not telling them they will get a boner?

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