Not a good first experience

[itsmrcurious 24]

Well, after months (years) of planning, we finally settled on a couple that we thought would be a good match on Red Hot Pie. They were pretty experienced - 13 years in the LS (which we thought was perhaps a good thing) - and they were into getting a bit messy, which is my wife's pre-requisite for doing this. We booked 2 days off from our kids, arranged to meet them in a bar and see where the night took us.

 

We got dressed up and were at the bar a few minutes early. They were nearly an hour late (although they communicated this to us all along). We'd made quite an effort, but from the moment they arrived, we realized that we'd made a big mistake in not talking to them first (we had tried, but probably not hard enough). The guy smashed back 7 large vodkas & tonics in the time it took me to finish my first and get through my second. Conversations were OK, but neither my wife or I was feeling it much. They hadn't made a huge effort in getting ready, they seemed pretty blase about the whole thing, and they were scarily hardcore with the getting messy part - we started to feel that we might have bitten off more than we could chew.

 

Second mistake was not calling it there and then (we did discuss it) but after all of the preparation, we weren't ready to give up so quickly. We had planned to go back to theirs after the bar, and so we did. They proceeded to suggest getting really, really fucked up, which we are OK with, but perhaps it was a little too much for a first time of swinging. Their place was a bit sad - lovely big luxury apartment, but it seemed like they'd let the lifestyle and the drugs get the better of them. They were "renovating" the place, but it was all a bit half arsed and unfinished. It transpired that the guy had slept all week (which was why he'd taken so long to get back to our messages) and they'd both gotten high the night before. He got naked immediately and kept asking to eat my wife's pussy, which put her a bit offside. His wife was a bit scattered and didn't always make a lot of sense and quite quickly they admitted a lot of the photos on the site were 5-7 years old. They'd also said from the outset that they weren't really into condoms, which we were kind of OK with (we aren't too) but hanging out with them for a bit made us regret agreeing to this without meeting them. They were just too hardcore lifestylers for us I think.

 

He seemed pretty bored by the whole thing and kept disappearing to mess around online, and she talked a lot, but not always coherently. The whole thing was just a little sad. We hung out for a few hours and it was reasonably fun (although there wasn't much in common between us), then it all got a bit weird and we left. We felt bad for wasting their time, but honestly we didn't feel like they'd been completely honest, we felt she didn't really know anything about us and that they were in a pretty bad place as a couple and in life.

 

We got home and actually had some pretty hot sex together which was great, but my wife has been put off the whole experience - never wants to do it again even though we agreed that night that we'd have been better going to a Swinger's Club first to see how the whole thing worked and take our time finding a suitable couple in the flesh. It's not all lost as she has an old friend and lover that we've played with before and she is happy to do that again, which is fine by me. I did want to graduate away from friends though, because it does get complicated (he is somewhat in love with her), but I'm not sure she will consider strangers again, at least not for a while.

 

I know we made some pretty big rookie errors - not speaking to them first, not going home alone from the bar when we knew there wasn't much in the way of vibes, agreeing to sex without condoms without meeting them first - I was wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences and how to come back from that? My wife is highly sexual, but somewhat repressed - she experimented a lot when she was young, and lots of people got hurt (that was her takeout anyway), plus she is sexually quite submissive which (a) doesn't sit well with her as a confident, alpha lady in normal life and (b) makes her scared that if she lets herself go, she might hurt me. I think I will be OK with it, but who knows until you try. She also needs to get pretty messy to get involved, probably because she finds it hard to embrace these parts of her personality without it.

 

I would like to continue experimenting, but I think this experience has set us back a ways. Anyone got any bright ideas?

 

yours in slight disappointment

x

[luvin eye full 140]

Hi

 

Well that's not good for a 1st go at it ( actual it's not good for any lol )

 

So there is a lot to your post - 1st look at this as how not to go about picking play mates lol

 

I would not let my wife and she would not let me also - play with any one with emotional attachments - and i think you should be very - very, did i say very careful if you go with the guys that does have these feelings -

 

Sure it is easy for your wife then going out again - but why is it - because the attachment is there so it is "safer" for her - not for you though or your relationship should he or her get more involved.

 

So the wife does not want to do this again because of the way it went down? - but happy to go with the guy who has feelings for her ( am i beaning repetitive on this - i hope sp lol )

The other thing is this part of the post " (b) makes her scared that if she lets herself go, she might hurt me. I think I will be OK with it, but who knows until you try. She also needs to get pretty messy to get involved, probably because she finds it hard to embrace these parts of her personality without it."

 

What does all that really mean - Messy = stoned or drunk? and the 1st part about hurting you - what is that about?

Until i can understand that part I'll refrain from thoughts on it lol. So let us know.

[itsmrcurious 24]

What does all that really mean - Messy = stoned or drunk? and the 1st part about hurting you - what is that about?

 

Thanks for the reply. Messy = uppers (tina // g // Molly)

 

Hurting me. Well, when she was experimenting in her 20's, she used to get high and make questionable decisions about who she slept with and how. She hurt a few people because when her inhibitions are lowered, she can be pretty slutty. To be honest, that's one of the things I love about her and I want her to experiment with her sexuality again. I'm a big boy (I think). I've already seen her with another guy in the only 3some we have had (the guy that is a bit in love with her) and felt no jealousy - only great erotic pleasure.

 

Regarding him: I think it's probably OK. He's in a sexless marriage - him and his wife have been playing since they first got together. In fact, he's kinda burned all his bridges (wives, friends) by not being able to behave himself, so it would all be consenting. I don't feel threatened by him at all because, while they are great friends and have been lovers on and off for 25 years, he irritates her like a sibling would and there is no chance it will blow up into anything deeper.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

Okay, so now you know everything not to do, it can only get better (seriously, it can't get worse). Don't waste a bunch of time emailing and texting, you will learn more about them in 5 minutes in person than 5 years of email and texts. Don't plan on playing on the first meeting. This takes the pressure off so you can take some time and see if you are all a match. If when you meet, it's not a match, (politely) leave. It isn't going to get any better. Too much of anything is too much...drugs, alcohol, whatever, is not going to lead to a good experience. I know when you are just starting having a bird in the hand, but as you found out the wrong bird is worse then no bird. Learn from this, give the wife some time to recover, and then try again but with this new knowledge to help. As for your wife needing to get 'messy to get involved', it sounds like she needs to be able to trust you more so she can let her barriers down. Just a thought. Anyways, sorry to hear it went south, but try again and we wish you success.

[itsmrcurious 24]

Hey GoldCoCouple

 

Thanks for the great response - very kind of you to take the time. I read your comments to my wife, who enjoyed them too. The idea that she needs to get messy because she doesn't trust me enough was intriguing. Certainly this line of thinking has led to some self discovery for both of us.

 

It seems she doesn't want to open this particular Pandora's box because she doesn't trust herself entirely. She talked to me this morning specifically about her historical experiences - a 9 year relationship with a guy that she thought was a wonderful person and potentially an amazing mate, but there was a spark missing, so she (with his enthusiastic buyin) brought other people into their bed and then fell in love with them (I was one of the 3rd parties). The second time was just before we went to live abroad together (I was in the UK, she was in Australia). She had a 3 month fling with a guy without telling me and by the end, she felt she was falling in love with him and having second thoughts about me. I was also having a last minute fling in London and it was my view that we were both spreading our wings before we settled down, because we both felt "us" was something serious. Mostly, she worries that if we really start experimenting, she might fall in love with someone else, or she might lose herself in a moment and do something to hurt me // us.

 

I believe that she at 45 is a very different emotional beast to she in late 20's. We have a family now and a very, very solid relationship and we love each other very deeply. I think in both of the examples above, there was a rationale behind the failure - in #1, she was not 100% satisfied with her long term relationship and experimented because she didn't want to leave him outright. In the second, we were 10,000 miles apart and hadn't seen each other for 6 months. She was having a wild and crazy fling and of course there would be feelings involved, particularly after 3 months.

 

This leads me to believe that rules are very important - not going back more than once or twice to avoid allowing emotional attachments to form and perhaps starting on holidays only, no talking to other parties without the explicit knowledge of your partner. We are interested in the concept of the collar - i.e. when it's on, then anything goes, and when it's off, then it's normal family life as usual. That seems to take out any room for interpretation etc.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading. If anyone else has anything to add on this, would be happy to hear.

[Judy39 145]

Just give it time. Yes it's not what you hoped for, but you got some 'lessons learnt' out of it and, truth be told, nothing horrendous have happened.

 

I would park it for now, then in a month or two, if you both feel like it, go to a club or a social with the view to just watch (which is exactly what most couples do initially). Then if anything more than that happens, it's a bonus. Watching can be fun and a huge turn on, and your standards can go pretty low if you just watch lol

[Eddiem 139]

Sorry to hear. We dipped our toes in the LS after chatting with friends that were heavy into it. We visited a club in Europe that was descrete and highly recommended. Well we planned on being voyeurs to check it out and within minutes of the second cocktail we hit it off.

[luvin eye full 140]

Ok so new info to explain it better - thats good now we have a better idea of the dynamics at play.

 

So there are some real red flags here -

 

1st of all please listen to your wife she knows herself the best and if she says - hey i do not want to hurt you then you better start listening.

 

She know’s that every time she has done this its ended the good relationship and started a new one ( from what you have posted ) so now i really think you should not let her and the other guy be together for any time -

 

Now i’m not having ago go at her or trying to put her down - but there is a problem and it does need attention before you go any further if you want to stay together. and i’ll be blunt about it.

 

So this is going to be a long post ( better get a coffee and some biscuits lol )

 

I’ll start with your responses.

 

“Hurting me. Well, when she was experimenting in her 20's, she used to get high and make questionable decisions about who she slept with and how. She hurt a few people because when her inhibitions are lowered, she can be pretty slutty. To be honest, that's one of the things I love about her and I want her to experiment with her sexuality again. I'm a big boy (I think). I've already seen her with another guy in the only 3some we have had (the guy that is a bit in love with her) and felt no jealousy - only great erotic pleasure.”

 

So this is her ex husband ?

“Regarding him: I think it's probably OK. He's in a sexless marriage - him and his wife have been playing since they first got together. In fact, he's kinda burned all his bridges (wives, friends) by not being able to behave himself, so it would all be consenting. I don't feel threatened by him at all because, while they are great friends and have been lovers on and off for 25 years, he irritates her like a sibling would and there is no chance it will blow up into anything deeper.”

 

So he has burned his bridges and has feelings for your wife and is great friends - yet know one else trusts him any more? and you do not see a problem with letting your wife whom you love and want the best for playing and spending time with him - again is he the ex husband ?

“ It seems she doesn't want to open this particular Pandora's box because she doesn't trust herself entirely. She talked to me this morning specifically about her historical experiences”

 

Lol I think she has more sense then you do lol - jokes aside - she sounds like that could very well happen even at the age she is now and that need your full attention - because your wife is telling you so -

“a 9 year relationship with a guy that she thought was a wonderful person and potentially an amazing mate, but there was a spark missing, so she (with his enthusiastic buyin) brought other people into their bed and then fell in love with them (I was one of the 3rd parties).”

 

So why did they not work it out back then - why for go 9 years to go with you a 3rd in the wheel - this says volumes about both of you and the way you both handle problems or take advantage of things. and what is to say it would not happen again? she does to you like the old fab husband and the new guy takes your ways and goes with her? You see it is easy to say the was a spark missing -

 

“The second time was just before we went to live abroad together (I was in the UK, she was in Australia). She had a 3 month fling with a guy without telling me and by the end, she felt she was falling in love with him and having second thoughts about me.”

 

Yes i know you both were cheating on each other whether you call it a fling or not is up to you - i say cheating. but that’s not the point here or is it - No wonder she now says what she says.

“I was also having a last minute fling in London and it was my view that we were both spreading our wings before we settled down, because we both felt "us"was something serious”

 

Lol are you reading this man? If either of you were even in the lest bit taken with each other then no one would be screwing with out approval 1st - look no swingers i know will want to come near the two of you if they find this out and you have not dealt with the why - sorry

“I believe that she at 45 is a very different emotional beast to she in late 20's. We have a family now and a very, very solid relationship and we love each other very deeply. I think in both of the examples above, there was a rationale behind the failure - in #1, she was not 100% satisfied with her long term relationship and experimented because she didn't want to leave him outright. In the second, we were 10,000 miles apart and hadn't seen each other for 6 months. She was having a wild and crazy fling and of course there would be feelings involved, particularly after 3 months.”

 

Well of course you do because it reflects on you and her - but the truth according to your posts are that she had a husband loved him dearly and found something missing after 9 years ( boredom maybe? ) talked him into sex with other guys and then you both screwed him over for it and you justify it by what you say now - the other is that you both screwed over each other by cheating - and you think its going to be different now? Once again you need to look at why and own it.

 

“This leads me to believe that rules are very important - not going back more than once or twice to avoid allowing emotional attachments to form and perhaps starting on holidays only, no talking to other parties without the explicit knowledge of your partner. We are interested in the concept of the collar - i.e. when it's on, then anything goes, and when it's off, then it's normal family life as usual. That seems to take out any room for interpretation etc.”

 

Yhea that’s a good idea given your records man. but it will not help.

 

But its not all bad at lest she knows whats going to happen and why.

 

So what to do - oh man lol.

 

1st off stop - just stop.

 

Now find out what drives her and you to these types of outcomes.

 

You need to own your part in all the going on from the past and not just say she was unhappy - it took two of you to tango. You both need to be honest with what happened in all cases and not try and justify bad behaviour.

Until you do you condemn yourself to the follies of your past to return to the future adventure that await.

 

I doubt that her emotional growth is what you think it is because neither of you have dealt with the why’s, and even if you do it now ( and you should ) it will take time - here’s the thing you want a woman that needs to be fucked up to be wild or what ever to risk all she has on some thing like sex with others - and to add insult to this you are telling her and us she has know fuckin brains and you need to do the thinking for her - because you think you are right and she is not, just look at what your posting - (or you think she does not know her our emotional state either way its not up to you - she has a brain let her use it and you take notice )

 

help her find out why she needs to be in that state to feel free - i myself think she does not feel free even then or in that state but more likely she just does not give a fuck because she/s high. or low or what ever it is.

 

Honestly knowing this about her and not helping her to overcome what ever is holding her back so she can feel free ( if she even wants too ) is as bad as keeping her on shit just so you can go screwing around with her. Your lust is doing the thinking here - what is more important her or what you can get her to do - . ( i also get the feeling that it has been expected of her in the relationships or at lest she thinks it is and that’s why she does the pills? you may find she is never that wild again what will you do then?)

 

I know i sound like the asshole from hell and good if that’s what it’s going to take for you two, To focus on each other and get some freedom from everything that holds you both back - swinging will never fix or inhance where you are now - nor will you pretending that your wife does not know herself when she tells you clearly she is sacred it will end your relationship.

 

Man you both could be on a real trip of discovery and be not only helping the wife to overcome her hang ups ( with out dope ups ) but growing as couple to boot. if you just take a step back -

 

Lastly ask yourself this

 

Who are the most important people in your life and how can i make it easier for them.

 

I actually wish the best for you both - even if i have been some what of a turd lol.

[itsmrcurious 24]

Hey Luvin Eye Full

 

First, thanks for your long and considered response. I appreciate your concerns. Let me try and answer some of them below

 

 

1st of all please listen to your wife she knows herself the best and if she says - hey i do not want to hurt you then you better start listening.

 

Fair enough. I'll talk through this more below

 

She know’s that every time she has done this its ended the good relationship and started a new one ( from what you have posted ) so now i really think you should not let her and the other guy be together for any time -

 

Now i’m not having ago go at her or trying to put her down - but there is a problem and it does need attention before you go any further if you want to stay together. and i’ll be blunt about it.

 

So this is going to be a long post ( better get a coffee and some biscuits lol )

 

I’ll start with your responses.

 

“Hurting me. Well, when she was experimenting in her 20's, she used to get high and make questionable decisions about who she slept with and how. She hurt a few people because when her inhibitions are lowered, she can be pretty slutty. To be honest, that's one of the things I love about her and I want her to experiment with her sexuality again. I'm a big boy (I think). I've already seen her with another guy in the only 3some we have had (the guy that is a bit in love with her) and felt no jealousy - only great erotic pleasure.”

 

So this is her ex husband ?

 

Not her ex husband - a guy that she's been with occasionally (a FWB) over the last 25 years, but someone that she's never dated or wanted to date. Sort of like a sibling

 

“Regarding him: I think it's probably OK. He's in a sexless marriage - him and his wife have been playing since they first got together. In fact, he's kinda burned all his bridges (wives, friends) by not being able to behave himself, so it would all be consenting. I don't feel threatened by him at all because, while they are great friends and have been lovers on and off for 25 years, he irritates her like a sibling would and there is no chance it will blow up into anything deeper.”

 

So he has burned his bridges and has feelings for your wife and is great friends - yet know one else trusts him any more? and you do not see a problem with letting your wife whom you love and want the best for playing and spending time with him - again is he the ex husband ?

 

This is actually the one that she feels safe with - she has never loved him that way, or wanted to go out with him although she does like sleeping with him because he is a gentle and considerate lover and understands her. I think he is a little in love with her

 

“ It seems she doesn't want to open this particular Pandora's box because she doesn't trust herself entirely. She talked to me this morning specifically about her historical experiences”

 

Lol I think she has more sense then you do lol - jokes aside - she sounds like that could very well happen even at the age she is now and that need your full attention - because your wife is telling you so -

 

“a 9 year relationship with a guy that she thought was a wonderful person and potentially an amazing mate, but there was a spark missing, so she (with his enthusiastic buyin) brought other people into their bed and then fell in love with them (I was one of the 3rd parties).”

 

So why did they not work it out back then - why for go 9 years to go with you a 3rd in the wheel - this says volumes about both of you and the way you both handle problems or take advantage of things. and what is to say it would not happen again? she does to you like the old fab husband and the new guy takes your ways and goes with her? You see it is easy to say the was a spark missing -

 

There was a spark missing for her in their 9 year relationship, even though she thought he was a great guy and even thought she might settle down with him. After a few years, they experimented with others (mostly friends) and then when she went on a 3 month work placement to the UK, they decided to have an open relationship. There were rules involved (sleep with people only once) but they both agreed to bend the rules so they could sleep with the person they liked again - I was that person for her

 

“The second time was just before we went to live abroad together (I was in the UK, she was in Australia). She had a 3 month fling with a guy without telling me and by the end, she felt she was falling in love with him and having second thoughts about me.”

 

Yes i know you both were cheating on each other whether you call it a fling or not is up to you - i say cheating. but that’s not the point here or is it - No wonder she now says what she says.

 

“I was also having a last minute fling in London and it was my view that we were both spreading our wings before we settled down, because we both felt "us"was something serious”

 

Lol are you reading this man? If either of you were even in the lest bit taken with each other then no one would be screwing with out approval 1st - look no swingers i know will want to come near the two of you if they find this out and you have not dealt with the why - sorry

 

Again, fair enough - but perhaps people can change // learn from their mistakes?

 

“I believe that she at 45 is a very different emotional beast to she in late 20's. We have a family now and a very, very solid relationship and we love each other very deeply. I think in both of the examples above, there was a rationale behind the failure - in #1, she was not 100% satisfied with her long term relationship and experimented because she didn't want to leave him outright. In the second, we were 10,000 miles apart and hadn't seen each other for 6 months. She was having a wild and crazy fling and of course there would be feelings involved, particularly after 3 months.”

 

Well of course you do because it reflects on you and her - but the truth according to your posts are that she had a husband loved him dearly and found something missing after 9 years ( boredom maybe? ) talked him into sex with other guys and then you both screwed him over for it and you justify it by what you say now - the other is that you both screwed over each other by cheating - and you think its going to be different now? Once again you need to look at why and own it.

 

This is one way of looking at it, sure. The fact was, they both entered into the group sex and then the open relationship willingly. They then both bent the rules with the other's consent and that's when we fell in love. I don't think there was any cheating involved, perhaps a little manipulation but everything was open and communicated

 

“This leads me to believe that rules are very important - not going back more than once or twice to avoid allowing emotional attachments to form and perhaps starting on holidays only, no talking to other parties without the explicit knowledge of your partner. We are interested in the concept of the collar - i.e. when it's on, then anything goes, and when it's off, then it's normal family life as usual. That seems to take out any room for interpretation etc.”

 

Yhea that’s a good idea given your records man. but it will not help.

 

But its not all bad at lest she knows whats going to happen and why.

 

So what to do - oh man lol.

 

1st off stop - just stop.

 

Now find out what drives her and you to these types of outcomes.

 

You need to own your part in all the going on from the past and not just say she was unhappy - it took two of you to tango. You both need to be honest with what happened in all cases and not try and justify bad behaviour.

Until you do you condemn yourself to the follies of your past to return to the future adventure that await.

 

I doubt that her emotional growth is what you think it is because neither of you have dealt with the why’s, and even if you do it now ( and you should ) it will take time - here’s the thing you want a woman that needs to be fucked up to be wild or what ever to risk all she has on some thing like sex with others - and to add insult to this you are telling her and us she has know fuckin brains and you need to do the thinking for her - because you think you are right and she is not, just look at what your posting - (or you think she does not know her our emotional state either way its not up to you - she has a brain let her use it and you take notice )

 

help her find out why she needs to be in that state to feel free - i myself think she does not feel free even then or in that state but more likely she just does not give a fuck because she/s high. or low or what ever it is.

 

Honestly knowing this about her and not helping her to overcome what ever is holding her back so she can feel free ( if she even wants too ) is as bad as keeping her on shit just so you can go screwing around with her. Your lust is doing the thinking here - what is more important her or what you can get her to do - . ( i also get the feeling that it has been expected of her in the relationships or at lest she thinks it is and that’s why she does the pills? you may find she is never that wild again what will you do then?)

 

I know i sound like the asshole from hell and good if that’s what it’s going to take for you two, To focus on each other and get some freedom from everything that holds you both back - swinging will never fix or inhance where you are now - nor will you pretending that your wife does not know herself when she tells you clearly she is sacred it will end your relationship.

 

Man you both could be on a real trip of discovery and be not only helping the wife to overcome her hang ups ( with out dope ups ) but growing as couple to boot. if you just take a step back -

 

This is good advice. Thanks

 

Lastly ask yourself this

 

Who are the most important people in your life and how can i make it easier for them.

 

I actually wish the best for you both - even if i have been some what of a turd lol.

 

Nah, not a turd. Someone who has taken the time to listen to our story and give their thoughts. It might not all be what we want to hear, but it's important to take advice from all corners. We don't want to get this wrong. So thanks!