Having a difficult time

[KinkyLeo 15]

My boyfriend and I have been engaged in the lifestyle together since we started dating. I truly love this man and the chemistry we have together is incredible. The problem is, there have been several incidents that have really hurt me and I can’t figure out what to do or how to get past them.

 

We are a soft swap couple, and agreed that kissing between M-F is off limits. He enjoys seeing me kiss other girls. We also agreed that actual sex (penetration) is just for us. But oral, touching, playing with toys, etc. is all fine.

 

On at least three occasions, he has broken the no kissing rule. We always play together so I’ve had to witness it right in front of me. He is extremely territorial and I know if I had broken a rule, he’d be beyond upset. Any time we play with another couple, I usually focus more on the other woman and an VERY careful with what I do with the man. TBH, other than my BF, there are very few men I’m even turned on by - we have such an amazing connection and chemistry that it’s hard for me to feel much for any other guy. I do get turned on by women but not even to the point I do with him. Regardless, he’s broken this rule three times now. He always apologizes, says he was just surprised when the woman kissed him and he didn’t initiate it. To make it worse, all the couples are aware of our boundaries so it makes me feel doubly betrayed. He’s never once tried to stop a kiss or shut it down, it’s like he’s always more worried about the other people involved than me.

 

To complicate things further, my boyfriend’s BFF is a young, beautiful 20 something girl. She’s very protective of him and hesitant to be my friend. One VERY bad night, after lots of margaritas and tequila, we took her to a sex club with us. I truly, truly thought we were just taking her to show her the place. I watched them dance really sexy with each other (in my drunken haze) and before I knew it, we were in the sybian room together. He started playing with us both, I watched him go down on her, her on him, all the touching and moaning and I couldn’t take it. I used our excuse that we agreed on months before if either of us were feeling uncomfortable, and ran out of the room. I went to the bathroom, came back and they were still in the room with the door closed. He finally came out to check on me but I’ll never forget sitting there, alone, waiting. We agreed to leave but he was more concerned about hurting her feelings than dealing with mine, and lied to her and said I was sick. She was so drunk she “HAD” to stay overnight while I eventually had to go home because of my dog. Then she stayed the whole next day. He’s apologized for what happened and I’ve tried hard to get over it. I have to see this woman at least 3-4 times a week because of our businesss. And, have had to watch them work closely together on things. It’s killing me inside. She drunk texts him, they talk about sex, she always has some inside joke or secret to tell him and I watch them kiss and hug every time they see each other. I keep telling him I’m struggling but he won’t change anything. He’s assured me that things have just gone back to normal between them and they’ve never discussed that night again. But the proof is in their actions , isn’t it? I’m the one who was so uncomfortable I stopped it. I have no doubt they would’ve went through with it and probably more rules would have been broken. She’s also been to his apartment and he never told me.

 

The rules being broken repeatedly and this incident have me feeling awful. I wanted to talk to him about it today but he refuses because there’s other things to deal with. A rule was broken last night and I’m seriously questioning things. At the very least, I think we need a break from the lifestyle. I can never get a break from the BFF and he doesn’t care how much it hurts me. Does anyone have any advice (but be kind please, I’m feeling really low.) Thank you in advance.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

It sounds to me like you have some legitimate concerns.

 

I agree that you guys should take a break from the lifestyle, at least until you can both sit down together, have a serious conversation and get your relationship back onto firmer footing. I would suggest that you need to calmly and clearly explain to him the concerns that you have and he needs to respect them. You also need to listen to his concerns (whatever those might be) and respect those. When you can talk through things completely, openly and honestly, you'll be in a better place.

[KinkyLeo 15]

Thank you, Lionheart, for your thoughtful reply. I’m sure you are right. When we can talk, I’ll feel better. But he says he’s dealing with too many other things right now to talk today, then made other plans for tonight. I’m really hurting. ?

[Chris&Suzanne 204]

You don't mention your age or history. It takes a lot of growing up, before you can swing successfully. Fortunately your not married yet.

 

Your BF will not like reading our comments, i'm sure.

[KinkyLeo 15]

I am 46 and he’s 50. We both have had experiences before and have been together over a year.

[njbm 2,877]

We are “conventional” full swap swingers. I play with the other woman, my wife plays with the other man. My wife will dabble in bi. We kiss, have oral, full swap with others together. No hall passes, no BFFs, no side arrangements. If one of us says no, it’s no for both. We arrive to swing together and leave together. We saw everything the other partner did. This works for us. We are not right or wrong.

 

Figure out what works for you. Ask your partner what he wants. If you cannot agree to honor each other’s wishes, don’t swing

[KinkyLeo 15]

Thank you for your advice. I agree with you. It’s no fun when I’m the one getting hurt over and over. I don’t think it’s worth it.

[KinkyLeo 15]

We have two rules. No kissing, no actual penetration. He was just as much a part of making those rules as I was. He’s told me he couldn’t stand to see another man kiss me. Yet, he keeps breaking the rules. It makes me wonder if other rules have been broken when I’m not around. He can’t even NOT kiss someone back. Yeah, the BFF thing gets me, too. Even worse is I’ve tried to be understanding, befriend her and she’s so stand-offish. After the incident with her, I didn’t even want to go back to the business and see her. I’ve forced myself, swallowed my feelings and have tried hard to get past what happened. I’ve even worked with her on projects. If anything, her attitude toward me has gotten even colder. As of late, she’s acting like I don’t exist. But he refuses to acknowledge it or do anything about it, even try to understand. For the record, she’s a customer of the business, not part of it, so...

 

Thank you for your advice and input.

[padoc 1,703]

I think you should cut your losses. Neither of them have any respect for you or your relationship with him. This will not end well for you. Take charge and walk away.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Thank you, Lionheart, for your thoughtful reply. I’m sure you are right. When we can talk, I’ll feel better. But he says he’s dealing with too many other things right now to talk today, then made other plans for tonight. I’m really hurting.

 

I'm assuming you've told him you are upset. I am also assuming that you've told him that you are uncomfortable (to put it mildly) with his relationship with this other woman. If I'm wrong about either of these assumptions, you must correct that.

 

If, however, I am right and he is still not making the time to talk to you than it seems to me that there is a problem. If you knows you have concerns and need to talk to him about it, he needs to make the time.

[KinkyLeo 15]

You are correct. I’ve told him. He needs to make time.

[KinkyLeo 15]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. I appreciate how thoughtful and welcoming you all are. I really do love him and outside of these issues, we have a great thing together. Maybe this lifestyle just isn’t for us, no matter how much we’ve enjoyed some experiences. I know we all messed up at the club that night - getting stinking drunk was the first of many mistakes. I should have put a stop to things much earlier. But, I didn’t want to be the buzz kill. I regret so much that I didn’t stop it earlier when I first had reservations. Take my advice please. Never, ever play with friends or business acquaintances. Don’t even get flirty, especially if they know of your lifestyle. You have to see them again and trust me when I say, if things go badly, you can’t just put it out of your mind. You’re reminded of it over and over. The bottom line is, I have more fun with him when it’s just the two of us, than I’ve ever had with other people joining us, save for a few experiences. We’ve done some AMAZING things and I’m pretty sure after all this, that’s all I need right now. I hope he’ll feel the same. Hopefully we can talk soon. Thank you all again. It was a Godsend having this board today.

[Jane1902 476]

I don't think think is about whether or not the lifestyle is for you two but more are you okay with this level of disrespect. Please reread what you have written. Everything is great except he won't take the time to acknowledge your feelings. The lifestyle isn't the problem but sometimes can highlight issues.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

Breaking the rules once can (but not always is) a mistake...breaking them a second time is an 'on purpose'. He is being disrespectful to you...and you are allowing it to happen. Neither of you are ready for this lifestyle and should take a break until your relationship is much stronger and in a better place. I know you love him, but I remember an old story about a man having to break up with tequila. See, he loved tequila with all of his heart, but the tequila didn't love him back and treated him poorly. Not saying that this is what you need to do, just saying sometimes you loving someone isn't enough. Until he loves you and RESPECTS you enough to put you ahead of everything else, you both need to stop.

 

When my SO (or anyone for that matter) leaves the room for any reason when we were playing, we all stop until she returns. We always play together meaning everyone has to be there. If she were to leave without saying something, everything would immediately stop and I would want to know what was going on. That's the way this has to work. He needs to be told this (point him to this board). You should come first always. He seems to know that you are having issues, but he doesn't want to talk about them is not good. You need to have trust and communication on an epic scale. Not wanting to talk is a lack of trust and/or sign of poor communication.

 

Finally, while some couples have been successful with playing with friends, we strongly advise against it since there is already a connection of some sort between friends, but also there is the risk of everyone in your group of friends finding out if things do go south. Bottom line, you need to stop until you both can work on the relationship and he is better at understanding what you want and need. Not for one talk or a week or two, but until the relationship is in a much stronger and better place. Good luck and let us know how things progress.

[Erik13 157]

Sorry, but you're going to have a problem with that no kissing rule. It's such a natural part of sex that it's going to be hard to not do it.

[Guest]

I totally agree that playing with people you know / work with is a huge mistake, in fact I'd not play with anyone that has any connection with our lives, with our families lives, with our other friends lives, with our work mates lives, in 99% of cases all it does is cause issues, but obviously on very rare occasions it can work, my general advice however is to avoid playing with anyone you know, or anyone who knows your friends, family or work mates, basically play with a new person and keep them away from your family, work mates, other friends ect.

 

However I must admit this situation is a tricky one because several things jump out at me, for example:

 

1. It doesn't sound like you have been together that long at all, you stated (over a year) which really isn't a long time. You also stated that he still has his own apartment so the relationship does actually sound rather new. That maybe your on different pages, that you view the relationship as this great connection and want it to last forever, where perhaps he views the relationship as a fun / dating kind of scenario.

 

I mean most couples don't rush into threesome within the first year of meeting, and if they are serious enough then couples generally move in together. That maybe he is thinking "This is fun, I can have this girl and group sex as well, I'll see how it goes" where your thinking more of a proper loyal relationship with a real and deep future, that maybe your on different pages there.

 

2. I also think that maybe your "Rules" are a little harsh, or that you have too many rules. In my experience if you take away kissing, and take away penetrative sex as well then it creates a difficult situation. Kind of like saying you want to go swimming but are not allowed to get wet, that you want to cake but are not allowed to take it out the wrapper. In general you will find new couples have lots of rules regarding swinging but basically too many rules can be difficult to deal with, that in many respects some people would say rules are made to be broken.

 

I always think back to the episode of Simpsons where they sit Homer in front of a big red button with a sign above it saying "Don't touch the button" and obviously it takes Homer about 30 seconds to push the bug red button to find out what happens. Its kind of a tricky subject because speaking from a male point of view when your wife / girlfriend allows another girl to join you in bed then basically as a man you want to do as much as possible.

 

Sure you want to kiss both women, you want to give them both oral sex, you want to push your dick into every hole you can, that getting two women in bed doesn't actually happen that often, for most people its a very rare thing. For example if you meet another women to play with then sure the man might like to sleep with those two women 4,5,6,7 days per week but in reality it ends up been once or twice a month if they are lucky.

 

When a man does get two women in the same bed then generally they want to do as much as possible as often as possible, I mean sure I'd love to come home everyday from work and climb into bed with two women, I'd love to spend my days off work with two women riding my cock, but basically that doesn't happen, in fact if we do meet another women then between work / life / my other responsibilities then I'm lucky if we get to meet that women once every few weeks, so sure when we do meet I want to do as much as possible for as long as possible.

 

I guess its like placing a child in a sweet shop and telling them not to eat anything, basically it doesn't work. If you place a child in a sweet shop for 6 days and tell them not to eat anything, and then on the 7th day tell them they can eat as many sweets as they like then sure on that 7th day the child will stuff their face so full of sweets they will throw up after. I guess its like been a child who only gets to eat sweets once per month, so sure us guys tend to go a little overboard when we get chance to sleep with two women in the same bed, really we want that all the time but are lucky to get it once in a blue moon.

 

3. Perhaps the most worrying thing I see with this situation is that you have started a relationship with this man and explored group sex together, you have given this man a chance to sample two women, to have sexual contact with other people, and sadly NOW if you suddenly say you want that lifestyle to STOP then it might have the opposite effect that your hoping for.

 

There are plenty of guys who come here on line and they says things like "When me and my girlfriend first met she was cool about the entire group sex thing but NOW suddenly she wants to stop and has gone against the entire idea and its really upsetting and stressful, how can I make her swing again, how can I make this work" In other words guys who want to have group sex don't really want to stop having group sex they want to find a girlfriend or wife who is okay with them having group sex.

 

I mean a lot of people try and protect their relationships by smashing away what their partner wants and enjoys.

 

The husband loves playing golf, the husband has spent 15 years playing golf, the husband has spent thousands on equipment, training, practice sessions and generally the wife becomes jealous of the hobby and wants to destroy it so her husband spends more time with her. In many cases it all it really does it cause damage and upset, that all it really does it take away the hobby the man wants to explore.

 

Kind of like saying "I'm going to save our relationship by NOT allowing you to enjoy the thing you like"

 

"I'm going to save our relationship by taking away your dreams, by taking away your hobby, by taking away your passion"

 

I din't know maybe I'm wrong but if you suddenly go against the entire group sex idea then in time he might just cheat anyway, that it might drive him into the arms of another person. It sounds like he wants to date a women who is happy to explore group sex, so perhaps you should consider what you have to gain by not exploring group sex.

 

One thing is for sure I'd not be happy with him sniffing around some young women at work, especially a young women who he has been sexual with, and who shares private secrets and jokes. To me it sounds like they have been more than just friends, that perhaps the occasional sexual mistake does happen.

 

My overall advice would be to TAKE A BREAK from group sex but to remember taking a break doesn't mean we are stopping it forever.

[luvin eye full 140]

Hi and sorry

 

this concerns me no end

 

"The rules being broken repeatedly and this incident have me feeling awful. I wanted to talk to him about it today but he refuses because there’s other things to deal with. A rule was broken last night and I’m seriously questioning things. At the very least, I think we need a break from the lifestyle. I can never get a break from the BFF and he doesn’t care how much it hurts me. Does anyone have any advice (but be kind please, I’m feeling really low.) Thank you in advance. "

 

 

His refusal to talk it out When you need too and that last statement about the BFF tells me your in big problem land now. Because it says volumes about the man that you have feel in love with.

Now before you get on my case about how good he is - just read again your post and pretend it was me posting it and your a on looker or just step back and have a good look at what he is doing in the name of his love for you.

 

This is not swinging in my book - it's using your love against you to keep a ego - now you may be able to work it out and have a great life together - but not like this, stand your ground with him or you will be forever sorry, hurt and just treated badly ( i mean your feelings will always be hurt )

You as a human are worth far more then this.

 

Best of luck

[Coffee2sugars 17]

Honestly right now my heart goes out to you because I get sense that you feeling very alone right now.

 

I agree with most of the advice above so won't repeat it here but I will say that if you need it take that break, don't ask insist on it. If your partners friend is pushing boundries remove her from your relationship and if your partner is breaking rules and causing you hurt or pain then confront him and ask yourself if this is how you want to live your life.

 

I hope you can work through things and find the middle ground but do not put up with a lifestyle that makes you unhappy.

[Cleve76Pom 24]

too many rules? It's swinging not choir, communicate or stay home

[Numex 2,420]

My wife and I don't have rules, and we talk a lot about what she does when we're apart (I only play when she's around), but we just talk about what we want to. Sex with others is supposed to be fun. Why mess it up with lots of baggage?

[couplers 4,652]

In the beginning, I too was like you. Despite my boyfriend/fiance/husband David letting me continue a full-on relationship with my ex-fiancee, I could not stand the thought of him doing anything with another woman. One day after about two years, a girlfriend of mine mentioned that David was good-looking and it must be nice with him in bed. I snapped, but in a good way, and said, "If you'd like that it can be arranged." Well she said she would like, so I did, and David was more than willing. It hurt, it burned, it drove me crazy with jealousy, but it was also good, like the burn of a hard run. Like coming off a scarey roller coaster and asking, "Can we do it again?" I was addicted. My only regret with her and the next couple of girls was that my inquiries to watch were rejected. Finally, I found a woman that would let me watch, which increased the burn and addiction, AND participate bringing it to a higher level, and finally she got full-on Lesbian with me (my first), all of which made it as much about me as David.

 

 

My suggestion - face your fears and let your boyfriend fully enjoy another woman. However, in your case, as it was in mine, you choose the woman. Good luck and let us know how it goes.