Can Honesty Kill Your Swinging Desires?

[Guest]

I suppose this is a bit of a strange question, but basically over the last 25 years I have dated my fair share of women and with a good percent of them have explored group sex at some point. However I have noticed that sometimes the more honest I am with my partner about swinging the more damage it can do. That for whatever reason if I'm unsure about a potential play mate / if express concerns about a potential play mate / if I express worries / negative feelings / general concerns / express that I'm unsure then it drastically rubs off on the girl I'm dating and often puts them off.

 

I mean a lot of swinging couples will make comments such as:

 

"I am always totally honest with my partner about swinging"

"Honest communication with your partner is a must"

 

That generally people in this lifestyle encourage fully open / honest communication, but sadly been totally honest and open often puts my partners off this lifestyle.

 

For an example lets say your meeting a MAN from your local swingers website, and lets take into account that you have never met this man before, and know very little about this man, that for all you know this man could me a liar / cheater / drug addicted / violent / aggressive / pushy / rude / very bad hygiene / he could even have an STD, or maybe you just notice something that feels a little "Off" about his profile, for example he is saying he is a single man but his pictures seem to be taken in a family home, that he is swearing he is single but on some of his photos he has family styled pictures in the background, or maybe he has just said a few funny comments that have got you thinking.

 

Sure we could meet this man and he could turn out to be an amazing person, or we could meet this man and he turns out to be horrible, you don't really have enough information to make a choice. However I sometimes run into problems when it comes down to speaking to my partner about such things, that there is a big difference between the reality of the situation compared to what my partner wants or needs me to say, for example.....

 

 

REALITY OF THE SITUATION: We are preparing to meet this man from the swingers website, however in reality I have no idea who this man actually is, I don't really know if he will turn out to be a safe and clean person, or a dangerous and dirty person. He has said he is a hygienic person, he has said he has been tested recently for STD'S and that he is STD free, but actually I have no idea if that is true. He also says he is single, but again I don't really know if that is true and would need to spend some time with him and ask questions to figure out if he is lying to us. He says he is interested in a longer term friendship but for all I know he isn't that interested in the friendship side at all. His pictures seem fairly nice but I did notice in one of the pictures there was a family styled photo hung on the wall behind him, does that mean he is married and lying or does it mean something else, I don't know.

 

He has agreed to meet us for a coffee but says he can only stay an hour because he has to meet friends that evening, I don't know maybe he is rushing home to his wife, maybe he is lying to us, maybe he isn't meeting friends at all and is looking for some affair but like stated he says he is single. He has told me his name is DAN but for all I know that might not actually be his real name, and no I don't really have any idea where he lives / where he works / what his real full name is because generally we don't ask such things on swingers sites, and even if we did how would I know if this man was actually telling us the truth. I guess we could request that he gets an STD test before we meet but again how we would know he actually had a test and wasn't just lying.

 

 

WHAT MY PARTNER WANTS TO HEAR: We are meeting this great guy from the internet, I am 100% sure he will be really nice, that he will be very clean, that he is totally STD free, he says he is single so that does mean he is not married and not lying to us. He says his name is DAN and I'm happy just to totally believe that, I'm sure he isn't lying to us. I'm sure this will be an amazing meet for us, I'm sure he will be a polite and understanding person, I'm sure we will be perfectly safe meeting him, that our home, family, relationship will all be perfectly safe meeting him. You don't have to worry at all everything will be perfectly okay, I have no concerns or worries about meeting this person, it will all be totally fine.

 

 

This means that when my own girlfriend asks me questions about the person we are planning to meet I'm given the option of been honest, or basically lying or sugar coating the truth.

 

 

My girlfriend might ask questions such as:

 

Question: So who is this guy we are meeting?

 

Honest Answer: Honestly I don't really know, just some totally random guy who said hello, he says his name is Dan but who knows if that's his real name, his pictures look okay.

 

Question: So how do we know if this guy is STD free?

 

Honest Answer: Honestly we don't know if he is STD free, he says he has been checked out but I actually have no way to confirm that.

 

Question: So is this guy single or married?

 

Honest Answer: Well he says he is single but honestly I have no way of actually confirming that at this point, for all I know he could be lying.

 

Question: So do you think this guy will respect our rules or boundaries as a couple?

 

Honest Answer: Shit who knows I'm not a mind reader, for all I know he might be the best man we ever meet, but on the flip side he could be a horrible person.

 

 

THE OUTCOME:

 

Is basically......

 

If I give any kind of unsure / negative / I don't really know kind of answers it just ends up putting my girlfriend off the idea.

 

If I lied and just gave 100% positive shining and glorious answers then my girlfriend would feel a lot more secure about meeting this person.

 

 

The actual reality of the situation is that I DON'T KNOW THIS MAN.

 

I have no idea what he is really like, I have no idea if he is lying to us or not, I have no idea if he is STD free or recently been checked out, really the only things I know is that he is a random guy looking to swing and in his pictures he looks fairly clean and seems to have a nice cock. I don't know if what this man is saying is actually true, I don't know if he would turn out to be a great guy or a bad one, really all we can do is meet him and find out.

 

But sure the girls I have dated never like such answers, that sometimes it feels the more honest I am about the situation the further it pushes my partner away from this idea. In reality the entire swinging lifestyle if often "Meeting total strangers and having sex" and I can not actually give any guarantees about a person until I have met them and known them for sometime.

 

Its very much like the girl I'm dating wants guarantees that meeting this person will all go perfectly well, but if I am been totally honest I don't actually know if meeting this person will go totally well, I don't actually know very much about this person at all, that really the only information I do know is what he/she has chosen to share on some random swingers profile, and even then I don't know if all of that information is true or not.

 

Its like someone looking you straight in the eyes and saying....

 

"Hey I want you to tell me now, is this car going to break down within the next year?"

 

Honestly I don't know???? Maybe it will, maybe it won't, how am I suppose to know?

 

That the girls I have dated are obviously wanting me to say that there is NO RISK attached to this, that everything will go perfectly well, but actually if I am been 100% honest I can not make such comments. In that case I am honest with my partner and simply say "I don't know" which is a unsure / negative styled answer and it just puts them off the entire idea.

 

Each time I honestly answer a question by saying things like....

 

"I don't know"

"I'm unsure"

"Who knows if they are been truthful"

"We can not confirm he has been tested for STDS"

"Maybe he is lying and really he is married"

 

Then sure I am been HONEST with my partner, and in turn that honesty helps push my partner away from the idea.

 

Its like the girls I have dated always want me to give positive answers, that they are asking me for some kind of guarantees about this lifestyle, that they only want me to sing positive / happy / secure kind of notes about this person we are meeting. But sadly life doesn't come with guarantees and I'm also not a mind reader and can not assure my partner that the person we meet will be this honest safe amazing person, in most cases the only honest answer I can give is that I don't really know, that we will just have to meet them and find out.

 

I know from experience that a lot of people do lie on the internet, they lie about their age / weight / height / location / name / martial status / sexuality, that sometimes people on line do lie and it always feels like the girls I date want guarantees that I can't really give. I don't know if this guy were about to meet is a liar, I don't know if he has been sexually checked out, I don't know if he will turn out to be nice or nasty, I don't know if he will honour our rules or boundaries.

 

So I'm honest with my partner and tell her "I don't know" and that unsure answer seems to put them off / damage their view about this lifestyle.

 

Guess I'm wondering how other people handle this?

 

Do you just give positive answers all the time, or do you face your partner head on with the reality of the situation?

 

My only idea so far is mixing honesty with a positive answer, kind of saying "Hey I don't really know, but we can meet him and find out" That "Hey I'm not totally sure, but for all we know he could turn out to be amazing"

 

If I am totally honest and simply say "I don't know / I don't know if he is been honest / I don't know if he is really single or not / I don't know if he has recently been tested for STDS / I don't know if he will turn out to be nice or nasty" Then with each "I DON'T KNOW" type of answer the girl I'm dating is pushed a little further away from the idea.

 

I am been honest with her, and in doing so it damages my chances of exploring this with her, so somehow I need to turn negatives into a positive or sugar coat the truth somehow.

 

I think sometimes women look to their partner simply to say "IT WILL ALL BE OKAY" that everything is going to be okay, everything is going to work out fine, but with this lifestyle I can not honestly give such answers, in this lifestyle I actually know very little indeed about the person were about to meet. That a lot of times it does feel like the girls I date want me to give 100% positive answers about this lifestyle when really I'm not in the position to give such guarantees, the real honesty of the situation is that we are meeting a total stranger and hoping that fucking them turns out to be fun and safe.

 

Been 100% honest with my partner never seems to have the desired effect so guess I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this sort of thing?

[lcmim 1,087]

One thing I noted.You use the term "girl" eight times and woman/women twice.

I do not know if that is indicative of anything or not.

 

My wife, clearly in the woman end of the spectrum is perfectly able and willing to size guys up for herself. My job initially is to be close enough that if she needs backup I am there.

 

We do talk about new playmates, but usually after we have met.

We do vet playmates as much as is feasible but the " maybe this maybe that" game is non productive.

 

There is nothing wrong with an honest "I do not know. Shall we find out?"

 

So essentially if your partner is mature enough to swing with you then maybe you should trust her enough and she should trust herself enough to form her own opinions.

 

One question for you. You seem mostly concerned about guys. Do you play exclusively with men or do your concerns also apply to female playmates?

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply lcmim.

 

Regarding the word girl / women, I guess I take them both to mean the same thing, my partner is 36 years old, generally we look for people aged around 25 to 45.

 

I mostly refer to men because its meeting a decent / safe / clean / genuine guy that we have most problems with.

 

My current partner is sometimes concerned to know if the man we are chatting to is clean / sexually clean / if he is single or married / if he is lying / if he is a player type / if he will turn out to be dangerous for our relationship. We have one long term male partner and she has no issues playing with him but after recently moving to a new city it would be nice to find someone more local, our longer term friend now lives an hours drive away and between work / vanilla life its made it very difficult to even arrange a meeting.

 

We have tried chatting with a few guys from the local area but like expressed my current partner seems to want / need answers to questions I can not really answer.

[adamgunn 1,461]

Sun, you're right - when you go to meet a man for the first time, you're unsure of the issues you've raised. If your girl/woman needs absolute surety, it's a conundrum.

 

When my wife and I would head to the bar to meet the guy, we had a lot of information to work with. We always had a face and body picture he sent us. We had at least five or six emails back and forth. And he'd spoken on the phone with both of us. After that level of interaction, we had an 'idea' of what he'd be like.

 

When we got there, we checked the guy against our idea of him. Did his physique match the picture? check. Did any of his story deviate from what he'd already told us? No, not really. Did he seem open to us, not guarded in his tone of voice or body language? Good.

 

Past that, it was just a matter of attraction between he and my wife. (Oh, I was in there, but if she found him attractive and he'd passed the other tests, I figure he was good enough.) If she wanted to take him to bed, we invited him to the bedroom.

 

Yes, there are uncertainties to meeting new people. If your girl/woman isn't wiling to live with the uncertainties, perhaps she isn't willing to meet people in an on-line situation.

[Greg & Sheryl 369]

The problem isn't your honesty; it's the fact that you always seem to expect the worst from other people. If you go into any activity excessively worried about worst-case scenarios, that attitude will take all of the fun out of that activity. You should ask your girlfriend to verify this, but she's probably thinking that if you're so concerned about the risks involved in meeting new people, then why should the two of you bother taking any risk?

[Jane1902 476]

How the subject is discussed - words, body language, tone of voice, and how a conversation is led plays into this. Leading with all of the negatives would make me wonder why I would want to do this. Have you tried you meeting the men alone first? How are you coming across to prospective partners? If a couple were to contact me and then treat me suspiciously I would be turned off and move on, has happened.

[Guest]

Thank you for your replies, some very good advice.

 

alexandsandra: Just to clarify I am not looking for a "Perfect Situation" and am also not wanting to seem like a genius either.

 

There are two very basic problems I'm facing:

 

1: My girlfriend basically does have "Safety Concerns" regarding meeting random people, she manifests those concerns by asking me questions such as: How do we know this person is STD free? How do we know this person is safe? How do we know this person isn't lying to us? How do we know this person will turn out to be nice? How do we know its safe to meet this person?

 

In response to my girlfriends questions I seemingly have a few options:

 

A) BE HONEST: Tell her that I don't really know / don't have them answers / that we would just have to find out.

 

B) SUGAR COAT: Sugar coat my answers / give only positive answers / try to reassure her by saying everything will be fine / this person will be great / they will be safe.

 

When really I don't know what this person will be like.

 

Like expressed in the original post many swinging couples would say "Total Honesty" is best, but if I am totally honest with my girlfriend it seems to increase her concerns. She asks me direct safety based questions, she asks me questions that I can not really answer for sure, and hearing someone say "I DON'T KNOW" doesn't fill her full of confidence.

 

I do want to be honest with her, but really it seems she needs me to tell her everything will be perfect, that everything will be totally fine, that the person we are meeting will be a safe and STD free person, really she is asking questions that I can not answer.

 

 

2: The second issue is that when speaking to a new person / random stranger on line they generally are not that forthcoming with information, I mean if were talking about "Men" then the averages guys profile is about 2 to 4 lines long if that. Many guys profiles are basically 5 or 6 words long, and then when you do share messages the replies you get in return are short / often extremely sexual / and still I have no way of verifying if they are been honest, that a person can tell me they are STD free but I actually have no way of verifying that.

 

 

I have never said that I want a perfect situation, the barrier I'm facing is that my girlfriend is reluctant to meet a new person unless we know they are safe, sadly as I do not have a crystal ball or mind reading powers I'm unsure how to answer such questions for my girlfriend. If I'm brutally honest with her I can not answer such questions, I could however sugar coat my answers which I guess would be a mild form of lying. I don't think either of us are expecting the perfect situation, however it seems my girlfriend is expecting an ultra safe situation, that she wants to know the person we meet will be safe / stable / not aggressive / not a liar / won't turn out to be a stalker / sexually clean ECT, ECT.

 

 

Some years ago I swung with a couple and its fair to say the male half of the couple was extremely confident and sugar coated everything for his girlfriend, to any concern his girlfriend had he would simply say "It will be fine, don't worry, it will be great" and in fairness his girlfriend seemed a lot more confident about the entire thing, so basically is it best to lit to your partner to give them a sense of courage, or is it best to be totally honest and say I don't know.

[Guest]

Yes it can. We met a couple in a hotel pool in Key West, about midnight. The pool and hot tub tend to go topless or nude at about 10pm. All was going well, he and I were in one corner of the pool, starting to play and hubby and his wife were kind of doing the same. So, then, the guy tells me how they had just returned from some swinger party, had sex with two different women there and then jumped into the pool as soon as they returned. Made me think that I didn’t want to be number 3 on a cock that hadn’t been washed that evening. Kind of excused ourselves from it all, went to the hot tub and joined others.

[Jane1902 476]

You can never be 100% sure someone is safe. Even with recent test results it may be too early for something to show up or have had exposure since. Even with safe sex there is risk. That is something you both have to accept.

[Ozzie+Harriet 84]

There are two very basic problems I'm facing:

 

1: My girlfriend basically does have "Safety Concerns" regarding meeting random people, she manifests those concerns by asking me questions such as: How do we know this person is STD free?

You are mostly out of luck on that one.

 

How do we know this person is safe? How do we know this person isn't lying to us? How do we know this person will turn out to be nice? How do we know its safe to meet this person?

Although we are new to swinging, I (male half) dated online quite a bit and I'm sure it works the same way here. You don't need to worry if it's safe to meet someone if you meet someone in a safe place, e.g, a public place with lots of people around. Just say that you are not going to play on a first meet. Talk to the person. Then, based on what you have observed, make a decision based on how likely you think you are to be right. That is how everyone decides anything, consciously or not.

 

In response to my girlfriends questions I seemingly have a few options:

Your third option is to just not swing, instead of trying to figure out how best to persuade your gf to do something she seems to be afraid of doing. Just because you can convince someone to do something doesn't mean you are doing the right thing.

 

2: The second issue is that when speaking to a new person / random stranger on line they generally are not that forthcoming with information, I mean if were talking about "Men" then the averages guys profile is about 2 to 4 lines long if that. Many guys profiles are basically 5 or 6 words long, and then when you do share messages the replies you get in return are short / often extremely sexual / and still I have no way of verifying if they are been honest, that a person can tell me they are STD free but I actually have no way of verifying that.

Well, that right there tells you to look elsewhere. Why would you bother with someone who can't put some effort into writing a profile or carry on an intelligent conversation? That seems like a good way to start weeding people out. A profile will tell you a lot about someone whether or not what you got from reading it was what the person intended to convey.

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies, some really useful advice.

 

Perhaps a point I missed was that actually my girlfriend does enjoy threesomes.

 

Back home we had a regular male play partner, someone I had known for many years, someone that I could guarantee was safe / honest / clean / reliable, and honestly my girlfriend really enjoyed both our dicks, she was more than happy to fuck us both, she would get really excited having a hard dick in each hand.

 

Since that point however we have moved to a new city putting a fair bit of time and distance between ourselves and my long term play friend, now we are faced with meeting a new person and sadly my girlfriend simply has safety concerns regarding meeting someone new. Its not that she doesn't want to swing, its not that she doesn't enjoy the aspects of having a threesome, its simply that she has deep concerns about meeting a total stranger, that she kind of expects guarantees about this stranger that I can not give.

 

If she knew the person we was meeting was honest / clean / mentally stable / STD free / not a liar and cheater / then sure she would happily jump in bed with us both. Sadly however we don't actually know those things and the only way to find out is meet the person, and often a social meeting isn't enough to fully figure someone out.

[JandKinBoise 859]

I kind of dealt with this problem with my wife. She turns off very easy. What we did to keep it honest and a turn on was to make meeting a guy a game. I would present a guy I thought was a candidate and we would look for and try to expose red flags. We would go into meetings we had set up based on our (her) level of security. Busy bar or dim dinner club, depending. Giving her control went a long way in increasing her feelings of well-being. It also helped with getting things started, which can be challenging. If she felt safe, in a situation she set up, she was very open about just shrugging off her dress, which gets things going quickly.

[Lombardswingers 18]

Well first of all, even if he’s had a recent test for STD’s, HPV won’t show up on that, so he could still give your wife/girlfriend HPV. If you really want to be sure she doesn’t get anything she doesn’t want, make sure the guy wears a condom.

 

Second, take a little more time to get to know the guy! There’s nothing wrong with spending a couple weeks chatting with him first, and if he’s not willing to take the time to chat with you to the point where you’re comfortable enough with him to tell your partner that he seems like a “stand up guy” (pun totally intended), then he’s probably a jerk and you don’t want him in your home (let alone your girlfriend) anyway! Invite the guy to have a beer with you at the local pub or something, usually after a couple beers it becomes a bit easier to see a person’s true colors. Alcohol lowers inhibitions, so if he’s going to slip up and show you his “less desirable side”, it’s probably going to be while drinking. It will be easy to find out how many women he’s been with (most men exaggerate that number, but whatever), what his opinions are on controversial topics, etc. It’s just an idea, but it’s one that works well I’ve found. That and if he does end up passing the test, it won’t be as “uncomfortable” as having a complete stranger poking your girl, you’ll both be more relaxed and at ease around each other, and your girl will pick up on that and it will make her more comfortable too.

 

The one thing you didn’t mention about the whole honesty vs sugar coating thing is that if you do end up sugar coating it about the guy you’re about to bring home to your wife, and he turns out to be a jerk, she’s probably going to be reluctant to trust your judgement in the future. My wife is pretty passive when it comes to picking “play partners” and leaves that completely up to me. I wish she’d be more involved, it would be a lot easier (on me at least), but it is what it is, so I do my best to talk to our prospective partners as much as possible, and get to know them as much as I can before we eventually meet up. When we do, I always let them know that we don’t *normally* play on the first date, but that it isn’t a hard and fast rule, it has happened, and that we’re all there for the same reason lol, so that seems to relieve some of the tension, but also leaves us an out without anyone feeling like we were leading them on.

 

Bottom line, I think you could give your girlfriend/wife more positive answers about your prospective rent-a-dick if you spent a little more time screening and getting to know him. Like I said, if he’s not willing to put in the time, then he’s not getting any pussy (from *my* wife anyway). You really have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by taking more time to get to know the guy who’s going to be fucking your gf/wife. Besides, who knows, you might end up making a new friend in the process!

[agreatguy 269]

I'm kind of with Alexsandra on this.

 

My take it that just the upfront over analyzing of all the possible outcomes and trying to be prepared for any and all possibilities is going to be a turn off for many women. I know it would be for mine.

She wants to know I have her back. She doesn't want to know the whats, wheres, whens, hows before anything happens. She simply wants to know I have her back. My confidence in being able to have her back and her confidence in me being able to handle any situation on the fly is a turn on for her. If I sat around and analyzed everything for all possible outcomes we'd be adjusting our rules, adding to them and worrying about way too much to ever be able to get it on.

 

She's a grown woman and can make her own choices and we make choices together about our play but her biggest concern is that she might get herself into something that might turn out not so fun or something changes along the way, it happens. She's a very kind person and doesn't like confrontation. She wants to know, without any doubt whatsoever, that I will get the signal and get her out of whatever she's wanting out of with as little drama as possible. I am confident I can do that because I have now had to do it a time or two.