Who is being selfish?

[Hotwifeandlove 15]

Okay, this is a long one so hold on. I haven't found anywhere else that seems appropriate for help, advise, etc, other than here. I fear that if you jump through this, you may miss some important parts as like most situations, its complex and as it seems in the beggining. So here we go.

 

My wife and I have been together for over 20 years. Yes. We are flukes that fell in love right out of high school.

 

As expected, in the last 5 or so years our sex life has been... lacking spark. The shitty thing is I shouldn't complain. We have sex on average of every other day that she is not visited by aunt flow. I know this far surpasses the average couple our age and duration of marriage.

 

Yet dispite being so lucky, there is still an insainly noticable decrease over what it once was. It's not just the frequency, but the attitude behind it. It used to be that I was awakened by her sucking or mounting my morning wood, but now I feel like I am typically the initiator. She rarely denies me, but there have been so many times that its what I call the cheese burger effect. I'm hoping for a great steak as was served in the past of moans, eager desire, multiple positions, places, etc. She provides my a doggy style quicky or an odd laying down position while watching porn together.

 

MY PAST: There's no denying it. I'm broken. I told my wife this before we ever got married. My first time was knowly as boyfriend #2. That lasted over a year.

 

I then had an ex of a year and a half who (unknowing by me until the end) had cheated on me with over 10 guys. That same ex got drunk with me half way through the relationship. We had some friends over as usual and she was wired as usual. She took me into the bedroom. We were so drunk I fell off the bed on the floor where she proceeded to do me doggy. Shortly after we started my buddy came in, also drunk and fell down on the floor infront of us as he tripped on the flashing in the doorway. "You can if you want." I said to her, slamming her from behind. That's all it took and she pounced, unzipping his pants and sucking his cock as I finished from behind. This didn't screw up our relationship. It was exciting and fun. I would gladly do that any day. The excitement in her made it amazing.

 

It was her cheating and sleeping with other guys without me that ended the relationship. There's a different feeling associated with that. One of being excluded, not good enough, and overall... cheated on.

 

Then a few in between until I met my beloved wife.

 

MARRITAL ISSUES:

 

To say we have had "the perfect marriage" would be a lie. Mostly my fault. I have been an ass on too many occasions. I know why so many women who marry men in their late 30s and beyond say that they married "the perfect guy". It because that guy had lots of experiences fucking up with previous girlfriends and/or wives. Yet, for some unknown reason, my beloved never left me.

 

I have always hinted at her being with other men with me. We even watch gangbang porn to this day which wires her up immensely, even when she says it doesn't. I know. It's by the way she body reacts and the way she feels. I assume being the community this is, you too know exactly what I'm talking about. We know, even if their words say otherwise.

 

When I've tried to convince her in the past, she has always shot me down. This has even led to fights, then usually us fucking together to the naughty fantasy.

 

RECENTLY:

 

We are planning a week long vacation alone together in a few months; and as always the topic popped out of my mouth. This time it was met by a shocking response. She asked about an open marriage. She admitted that she always wanted others. She wanted to fuck as many cocks as possible and be the center of attention. You know, the typical she can go off and fuck anyone and me the same, but not together. The thought was intriguing. The thought of her fucking other men was so intense, I had a dripping permanent hard on for almost a week.

 

She was no better. As she flipped through the adds of horny guys on apps, she would get so arroused that she started masterbating again when I wasn't available... allot.

 

I thought that this would include me with her to some extent (no idea why), but I was wrong. One night while away for work she said on the phone she wanted to be alone with them and not include me at all. It was heartbreaking. The same kind of heartbreaking feeling that lead to my relationshipwith my ex deteriorating. Yet it kept my hardon raging. The very night it all hit and broke my heart I told my wife that her way would destroy our marriage. She then pulled the "her way or it all stops" card and called it all off saying our marriage was paramount, something we both agree on.

 

That same night after talking to me, knowing my pain, and calling it all off, she masterbated 3 times to the thought of fucking other cocks.

 

I myself masterbated to similar thoughts. My wife being a horny little slut, eagerly sucking and fucking others. It was the most conflicted feeling on earth. The pleasure side mixed with the agonizing pain.

 

After the conversation, dispite crush, taught me alot about myself. It taught me that I love a fucking slut. I love my wife being horny beyond belief. I want her above all others. I have no issue showing her off and letting others enjoy her, but only if I can as well.

 

Later we reopened the possibility and she asked if she could start right away while I was out of town. Of course I said absolutely not and told her truthfully, I don't care if she fucks everyone, as long as I am there to see it and able to reclaim her.

 

She seems to be teetering on the subject from not at all to maybe.

 

I am sexually broken I guess and from past experiences know I am now geared towards sharing my mate. But psycologicly I can't handle the thought of her not being with someone else other than me without me.

 

We both agree that our marriage is priority, so you would think that would be that? Thing is she does want other cocks, and I equally want her to have them... just not in the same way.

 

With all this in mind I question. Am I being selfish by insisting on her inclusion, or is she being selfish by saying her way or no way?

 

I wish I could give in to her desires. They are so close to my own, but as mentioned, I know myself, something few can say. I know how her way would destroy us, destroy me, but I want her happy.

 

Should I play it safe and watch both of us sulk no doing anything and watch my wife crawl back in her sexual shell?

 

Should I continue to try going my way a prey she never breaks off on her own.

 

Should I risk it all, cave, and more than likely end in divorce?

 

These are the thoughts that now haunt me in the night.

 

They say its all good as long as you both have clear defined rules you live by. So I don't think that my rule of inclusion is outrageous? Is she being selfish by going at it alone, or am I for insisting upon inclusion?

 

Thank you for bearing through all this.

[Alura 2,774]

from Oklahoma, Hotwifeandlove! We're glad you've joined us and wish you the best in resolving your issues.

 

If you haven't already, introduce your wife to this Forum and encourage her to explore the issue. Talk about what you both want.

 

In my opinion, and that of my late wife, if extramarital sex isn't shared, it isn't swinging and threatens the marriage. Both partners don't have to be involved in the sex act to share it.

 

Laura and I had two such adventures in our thirty year marriage. In her's, she met a "hunk" who wanted to fuck her and she, him. She talked to me first and we successfully planned their tryst together. It was accomplished while I was out of town on business. We spent the next weekend talking about her adventure and having wild sex together. Nevertheless, she rated the encounter as "underwhelming" and she never repeated the act.

 

In mine, at a class reunion, I saw my high-school sweetheart who had never said "Yes." While dancing, she told me that wouldn't happen again. Jill came to dinner where she and I talked to Laura who, remembering Richard, jumped aboard wholeheartedly. As part of the planning, my wife fixed a "Tryst Kit," (Laura's title) which included a bottle of wine, two glasses, lube, vibrator, etc. Jill and I spent an exciting afternoon in a hotel room. Unfortunately, before another five years went by, (the next class reunion) my sweetheart succumbed to a heredity lung disease. Laura and I never repeated such an adventure.

 

These excursions taught us that sharing with another couple offered more variations and combinations and were a lot more fun, so we stuck to that for the rest of our marriage.

 

It's time to talk to your wife for weeks or years about your sex life, hopes and expectations. The time will come when one of you will not be able to talk to the other.

 

My best to you and your wife.

[Judy39 145]

It doesn't really matter who's more selfish. Apportioning blame is a waste of time and energy. What matters is that this setup doesn't work for you two. I'm sorry.

[ViSexual 1,008]

I've never felt that swinging, in any form, is about fairness. Of course there are risks. If only one is having others, two things can happen. Jealousy in the one left out can cause problems and there's always the possibility that the one partaking will think they're in love with their other.

 

I think your wife just might be being totally honest with you in that she could enjoy fucking other men but she couldn't enjoy you being there. My wife was the same way. I loved being there and watching but I could tell it was bothering, and restricting, her. And, after separate room encounters, she didn't even want to discuss what had occurred. I finally realized that and allowed her privacy.

 

I think you simply need to decide if you want to go by her rules or not. If it turns you on that much then it might be worth it. If it bothers you that much, then it won't.

 

Either way, I sure hope things work out for you..., and her.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

First off: we are all broken in some manor...sexually, emotionally, physically, spiritually. Anyone who has lived any time at all has been broken in some way. You are not special in this and you are not alone. The trick is not to focus on your brokeness, but knowing that it is there, put it away and try not to repeat the same mistakes. When I first met Ms. Gold, she told me that she was all messed up, broken, but I didn't see the broken parts...and later I realized that what she took as being broken are things that I really kind of liked about her. What she took as a shortcoming, I take as a benefit and a positive. Don't dwell on your perceived shortcomings, know that they are there, but keep them put away.

 

As for everything else: neither of you should be thinking about swinging or hotwifing or whatever at this point. Swinging is a team sport, something that you both do together to make a great relationship even better. It will also break a weak relationship, utterly and completely. Your relationship sounds closer to being a weak one than being a great one. That doesn't mean all hope is gone. Work on rebuilding your love, trust and communication. Make all three as strong as possible, and then return to this conversation. Relationships that have been together for awhile...well, there are usually things that crop up and break down, usually in communication. You need to bet back to a point where you can, will, and want to tell each other everything (without fear of punishment, shock, or retribution). Instead of thinking about bringing others in, maybe think of your SO as a new person that you are just starting to date again. Start over and fix the cracks in the relationship. Make the relationship strong again. Start doing the things you used to do (like dating). If you continue on the path you are currently on, I just don't see it ending well. It sounds like she is 'interested', but I worry that she is interested for the wrong reasons (finding a replacement instead of just finding some fun).

 

Take a step back to reevaluate things and work on the relationship. You have cracked Pandora's box open, but before opening the lid any more, make sure the two of you are back in sync and working as a team again. Then and only then you can revisit the idea of swinging in whatever manner you want, but please work on where you are before you find yourself somewhere you don't want to be. Good luck.

[Maybe 23]

To the OP. I am so sorry that things went down this way. Your experience is also my biggest fear in this hobby (which I just mentioned in another post). On the one hand, your wife was honest with you, which still keeps the trust between you. But, what happens if you don't agree with what she wants ? Will she start doing it anyway behind your back ?

 

I am honest to a fault and want the same in a partner. But, I would probably be hurt as well if my wife approached me the same way, despite the face that I would appreciate her honesty.

 

Please keep us updated. I hope that things work out for you guys.

 

Cheers.

[Hotwifeandlove 15]

Well, you wanted an update.

 

So it has been an insane 2 weeks. No, we haven't done anything sexually, but we have fought, cried, almost divorced, laught, smiled, talked dirty, opened up, clammed up, and opened up again.

 

I explained my side and she explained hers.

 

Her side was she wanted an open relationship because she feared that only ugly freaks would want to touch her with me being there. She can't imagine a straight guy actually wanting to do her with me in the room. "Could you imagine doing a guys wife with him standing next to you staring? Sounds creepy and akwatd to me."

 

The other thing she said was the the difficulty of finding one from the bunch she would like. "Getting laid is easy if I'm a slut. Every man wants a free fuck, married or not, but not with hubby there."

 

 

These are just highlights obviously and theres personal stuff I dont wish to post. Ultimately, this coming out of the closet thing has broken me a bit further, but also made us talk more than we have in a decade.

 

She created a few dating app profiles that said a much lengthier version of...

 

She wants the traditional semi built guy with a big cock. Of couse, the stereo type desires. Not bashing, just saying what it is. I don't care what or who she fucks as long as she's safe, it's only physical, and of course I'm there to take her during or immediately after.

 

After a while she found, even after explicitly saying it would include me, the majority of the guys responding only wanted her to sneak away with them. She brought up profiles to me and said something along the lines of "It would be easy, but as you can see, I haven't responed to any. Our marriage is more important than fullfilling just MY fantasy."

 

As weird as this may sound, we found we love eachother more than we thought. She wants to put it all on hold until we can find the equivalent of the old craigslist adds and get guys that way.

 

She saw what my point was and says, if it happens, it happens, but if not, well just have to settle on telling eachother our fantasies while fucking.

 

My brain says this is all twisted and wrong, yet both of our physical reaction, increased frequency in the bedroom, open speach, and better, more talkative attitude towards eachother in and out if the bedroom says otherwise.

 

I guess as one poster put it, "we are all broken" the important thing I found is it doesn't matter as long as there is someone there willing to hold and play with the pieces.

 

 

Sorry if this wasn't some hot and heavy response. It's reality.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

Thanks for posting an update. If we didn't want one, we wouldn't ask and I, for one, really want to know how things are going (good or bad). There's always Playboy's Forum if we want fantasy versions of what may have happened. Most of us are here to help others who are having problems navigating this lifestyle and want to try and avoid making the mistakes that others have already made. We want the truth and to try and help.

 

Your wife said:

 

Could you imagine doing a guys wife with him standing next to you staring?

 

Yes, it's called 'hotwifing' and is not as uncommon as she is thinking it is. It's also a variation of swinging.

 

You wife said:

 

The other thing she said was the the difficulty of finding one from the bunch she would like.

 

So she is looking for a guy that she feels a connection with. ***WARNING LIGHT FLASHING***

 

Ultimately, this coming out of the closet thing has broken me a bit further, but also made us talk more than we have in a decade.

 

Once again, we are ALL BROKEN in some matter. Forget about this and instead focus on how you are talking more than you have in a long while. Talking is a good thing. Not talking and her just leaving or having an affair is a bad thing. Talking means that there is still hope and love.

 

She created a few dating app profiles...

 

If she is looking in a dating app, she WILL only find guys that want her to run away with them. If you want to catch fish, you can't go fishing in a parking lot. There just aren't any fish there. If you want to catch guys that don't mind the husband being there, the you look on swinging websites. Single men looking for exactly what she SAYS she's looking for are a dime a dozen (with a free dozen tossed in for good measure).

 

...and of course I'm there to take her during or immediately after.

 

If you do go forward with this, this part is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. It's called reconnecting where the two of you are reinforcing the bond you both have with each other.

 

As weird as this may sound, we found we love each other more than we thought.

 

Very common in swingers, but only when the relationship is solid does it work long term.

 

She wants to put it all on hold until we can find the equivalent of the old craigslist adds and get guys that way.

 

Bad idea. If you want to find a used car or garage sale, Craigslist works just fine (if that is your thing), but for finding a guy for your wife to have sex with...not so good. Most guys there are usually cheating on their S/O, may or may not be 'safe', and are probably looking to take her away from you. To find the kind of guys familiar with the things you need, look on swinging websites (Find Swingers tab at top of page). Fish in a barrel (if the barrel were to only have a bare minimum amount of water and was crammed full of fish).

 

Once again, this is something that you should do TOGETHER and not something that she should head out and do on her own or without you. At least have the two of you look at swinging websites (most let you set up a profile for free) and see just how many guys are there and willing to participate. I still think that you two need to firm up the relationship a bit more before continuing, but it sounds like one or both of you are willing to move forward. Also, you still need to discuss limits and rules. We wish you the best moving forward and WELCOME and look forward to your updates. Good luck.