Swinging with a married man.

[b4real69 16]

I've read a couple of messages that indicate some couples have a problem meeting with a married man. I'm a married man and I swing when I get a chance which isn't very often. Swinging with a married man can have some good points about it. I know there are some bad such as causing his marriage to break up but if you meet with him and take the time to learn some things you can usually find out how truthful he is.

 

Some of us married men love our wives. Some of us have great sex lives with our wives but just need that little extra excitement once in a while. We are not bad guys.

 

My wife and I did swing together at one time. As time went on she didn't care to continue. Being a male with a very strong sex drive it is hard for me to not want to swing. I don't want to swing with a single woman because I do not want another single person to have the least little chance of coming between my wife and I.

 

With a couple it is only about sex. There is less of a threat of a married man causing trouble between the couple. Married men are more likely to be disease free.

 

Give a married man a try. Take the time to learn a little about him and if you reach the point you feel comfortable with him go for it. But please don't discount us completely.

[twinkletoes 15]

If you are married, then so is your wife, and we wonder why she has no "say" in the matter of a swinging lifestyle?? If she is not swinging WITH you, then YOU are not "swinging" either -- you are cheating.

 

As for your comment that you "just need that little extra excitement once in a while", well... it reminds me of what my mother used to tell me (and, a quote that lives on in our family as the phrase as been uttered to our daughter) - "life is often unfair; you can't always have everything you want."

 

We have, thus far, only done MFM -- but will never ever ever consider a married man; we are not cheating and don't believe in condoning someone else's cheating behavior. It takes a little more time to find the true single men to play with, as we have to hack our way through the proverbial jungle of "swinging" married men - but we have found single men who we enjoy bringing into our relationship for our play time.

[Quin 17]

No matter how much you beg and plead, try to make yourself look good...you are a cheater, plain and simple and others will view it the same way. What sane married couple would get involved a married man without his wife having any knowledge? Not any that I know. For to include you within their play would be giving you and what you're doing a stamp of approval. I can't think of any couple I know that would endorse your cheating.

 

Like the poster posted before me, life is in no way, shape, or form, fair. You need a bit extra because of your high sex drive...take the problem in hand and give it a good whacking. Don't attempt to bring other couples into your lying and deceitful web.

 

I, personally, would not want to be party to anything that would hurt an innocent person. And that's what your wife is, an innocent person. You will be found out, all cheaters are and when you are found out it's your wife and kids (if you have any) that will hurt the most out of all this. There's no way you could possibly love your wife and/or kids for if you did you wouldn't put them in any position to be intentionally hurt by your actions and that's exactly what you're doing.

[TeamSoBe 36]

I don't want to swing with a single woman because I do not want another single person to have the least little chance of coming between my wife and I. With a couple it is only about sex.

 

This is exactly the reason that a lot of guys use to justify fucking escorts. "I'm not paying her to have sex with me, I'm paying her to leave." Either way, you're cheating on your wife. You get even more flak than the typical single guy does because you aren't even a single guy. You're a couple with your female half absent.

 

Most swingers approach the activity from the point of view of a very tight, dedicated couple exploring something exciting together. The basic unit here is the couple. When two couples get together, it isn't four single people of varying genders getting together for group sex, it's two couples getting together. When a couple has fun with a single girl or a single guy, it isn't three people screwing, it's a couple playing with a single. You approach the situation as a single, which would be fine if you weren't actually part of a couple. Any couple that finds out that you are married suddenly becomes aware that they are actually dealing with a couple where the woman is absent, rather than a single guy.

 

You will get plenty of encouragement for your overactive sex drive if you put the effort into sharing it with your wife and including your marriage in your play. If you don't then you're just another cheating husband. The swingers that you interact with who have strong, tight marriages don't have much respect for that.

[OhioCouple 41]

All I can say is that I would appreciate the *honesty* of someone telling us that they were a swinging married single. Doing so allows us to blow them off in a heartbeat and provides more time to get to know honest, sincere individuals.

 

There is absolutely "NO VALID" reason in our opinion, that condones one half of a party to have sex with others outside of a "COMMITTED" relationship just because they need some more excitement or whatever lowly excuse they come up with.

 

We can argue the status of single vs. married until the cows come home, but the plain and simple fact of the matter is...if you are in a committed relationship and your significant other doesn't care to play with you, then keep your tool where it belongs. Your bedroom.

 

I've heard the woeful tales of why people seek reltaionships outside of their marriages. Trust me, too many people get hurt, especially those you love the most.

 

Lori

[SwingerSet 15]

Quote

My wife and I did swing together at one time. As time went on she didn't care to continue. Being a male with a very strong sex drive it is hard for me to not want to swing. I don't want to swing with a single woman because I do not want another single person to have the least little chance of coming between my wife and I

 

I have been staying out of this, even though it drives me to distraction. The reason being is that we own a club and we try to keep neutral about most things. The first rule of swinging, what I like to call the first commandment is No Means No!!!! You have broken this rule before you even stepped out the door. Your wife says NO! and you discount her decision. Now that I have said that I will go into the second worst part of what you are doing. You say that there is less chance of problems with a married man playing single, think about the worst case scenario. Your wife finds out what you are doing and sues for divorce. She calls the innocent couple as witnesses to show what an "asshole" you are, now they have been outed. Not only to a few people, but knowing how the media is, to your whole city and in a permanent record to boot. As was said before, swinging and (what you are doing) cheating are two completely different things. Swinging is sharing your sexual life with others,in a consenting manner. Then going home "with" (not to) your significant other. Cheating on the other hand is running around lying and doing things behind her back. Even before we started swinging we both felt very strongly about cheating. We said that it was the only real reason to split up a marriage.

 

Go home, work on your marriage. Increase your sex life at home and leave the swinging to truly single men and committed couples.

[OhioCouple 41]

Quote

Originally posted by b4real69:

Married men are more likely to be disease free.

 

Perhaps you can explain to me how a married man who cheats on their wife, by having sex with other people are more likely to be disease free. IMHO they are probably indulging in more risky sexual behavior with anyone that will do it with them.

 

I've known a few wives that have been shocked to find out they have an STD as they had never been with anyone but their husband. In each of those cases, their marriages eventually ended in divorce.

 

Lori

[Flori_DAMAN 26]

I hear that "I can have my cake and eat it too".

 

I am wondering. How would you react if you found out your that your wife was having sex with other men and not letting you know about it?

 

Just because its a couple and you may have twice as much fun doesn't make it any less cheating. I greatly admire the twist you put that suggests that if it won't result in a permanent relationship then its OK. That is ludicrous.

 

Divorce your wife now and then swing. Cuz brother it will happen sooner or later, and you will be dragging other peoples lives into your warped logic. John.

[sportync 20]

For some reason, a photographer I once knew comes to mind....he was a horny dog living in a college town full of young hotties, so he suggests to the little missus that they have an open marriage, where each can explore other relationships on their own. She said, "OK", and took a weekend in Florida where she wound up in bed with her old boss and his young wife. She told him about it when she got back, and he was furious. Not because of what she did, but because he had tried every ploy in the book to get laid, and nothing seemed to work. It seems that all the little college-cuties weren't interested in what he was selling. Life may not be fair, but sometimes it's funny as hell! Sportync

[Sin D 15]

You are definitely cheating! Every couple that posts a personal ad will probably eventually have to deal with a married male replying to their post. the issue is, in a way, are you willing as a couple to enable his cheating for your own adventure? What if his wife finds out? What are the possible consequences to you if she does?

 

You can justify it any way you like to yourself, but it's cheating...and the couples you are with probably view it that way also...they just assume that it's not their problem, it's yours.

[FTnPV 15]

I'm a horny married guy also and I see a lot of women I'd love to go to bed with but I'm married and I cherish that very very much! When we play, we play together, whether it be with a single or couple. I feel for married guys who's wives have taken a back seat in the sex dept, but it's up to you to liven that up for her and get her interest up again.

[Alura 2,775]

We would never help a married person, male or female, cheat. If you are interested in swinging, you need to discuss it with your wife and enter it together or not at all. If she will not talk about the subject, or gets angry when you bring it up, the problem is with your communication and relationship, not with folks who do not wish to be involved in your cheating. Can you give us one valid reason why we should "give a married man a try"? We can give you many why we should not.

[twinkletoes 15]

I think our Mr. B4real69 has decided that he is NOT going to re-enter the discussion...

[bulb15 15]

So what about this...Wife and I swing together,but she also allows me to swing separate. She always knows of my activities and always has the right to revoke my privileges. I would never cheat and she trusts me to play safe. Is this cheating? Does it fall into the same realm as what is being discussed? Am I to be considered a single for all practical purposes? Or am I a lying cheating sex dog that only cares about his own desires? And last but not least..Should I get a hall pass from my loving wife? P.S. Cheaters suck!

[b4real69 16]

In answer to Twinkletoes - What kind of a response are you all expecting from me? I made my point. It's my opinion all of you have made yours. I respect your opinions and I feel you all need to do what feels right for you.

 

I will say this. As far as sex with my wife, we probably have better sex than most of you. I have no problem with the sex with my wife. No sex between the two of us is taboo. She is like the majority of women and sex more than 4 times a week at the age of 45 is enough for her and I certainly would not want to pressure her. I have a much stronger sex drive than most men and would have it twice a day 7 days a week. I don't run out and do this. I don't go out and find sex with single women and I don't make up excuses for going out. If I have the opportunity to enjoy sex with a MARRIED couple I incorporate it in my day with other things I need to do that take me out of the house. All the messages are in the negative. All the ones that you can read here at least. What you all don't get to see are the private messages I've received and all the emails that are positive to my viewpoint.

 

Like I said..I respect all of your comments and opinions. Also to all of you seemingly righteous people that think that I am cheating, bottom line is that you all are cheating also. Read your marriage vows again. They don't say it is ok to have sex with others as long as your partner agrees. You can swing and put me down but to the majority of married people in this world you are cheating and doing the wrong thing. You know that is true. How many are open with ALL of their friends and acquaintances and tell them you are swingers. I won't be responding to this any more because I didn't write the original message to cause any problems. I just stated my opinion.

[twinkletoes 15]

Having and being able to speak/post our own opinions is what makes this message board a great forum for learning from others. I appreciate that you have your views (and others share them) and I think you appreciate that we have ours (and others share them). There's no mean-spiritdness; just a bunch of free people expressing what we think and believe from ALL sides of the situation.

 

There have been people evaluating their marriage vows in the context of a swinging lifestyle as long as there have been people IN the lifestyle. We all take our own personal journeys to get to the understanding of what it means to us within the context of our relationships.

 

And I think that is the key point on which you and people of your thinking differ from us (R&D) and people of our thinking. We believe that it is the element of truthfulness, honesty and exploring TOGETHER that makes it positive. For as we committed ourselves to each other (with vows) we committed to this aspect of our lives together. It is NOT Not one of us doing what we want to due to the other's lack of interest, desire, etc.

 

I suppose what makes me "sad" more than "mad" about people who feel the need to swing without their partner's consent or participation is that I feel sorry for the one who's left in the dark (in this case your wife). You are hurting her, whether she is aware of it or not... and I fear that one day it will all come out and REALLY hurt her.

 

And as I wouldn't want to be on the end of the "hurting" part of things, there is no way that I could ever participate or assist someone in contributing to that hurt.

[Alura 2,775]

Quote

Originally posted by b4real69:

Also to all of you seemingly righteous people that think that I am cheating, bottom line is that you all are cheating also. Read your marriage vows again. They don't say it is ok to have sex with others as long as your partner agrees. ... I just stated my opinion.

 

There is nothing in our marriage vows, which we wrote ourselves, that precludes swinging. There is a lot that rules out cheating. If your wife is unaware of your activities, you are cheating.

 

We read your opinion, understood it, and rejected is as self-serving utter nonsense. Your attempt to justify cheating under the guise of swinging was too transparent to be successful when presented to the sincere swingers who post on this board.

[Alura 2,775]

Quote

Originally posted by bulb15:

So what about this...Wife and I swing together,but she also allows me to swing separate. She always knows of my activities and always has the right to revoke my privileges. I would never cheat and she trusts me to play safe. Is this cheating? Does it fall into the same realm as what is being discussed? Am I to be considered a single for all practical purposes? Or am I a lying cheating sex dog that only cares about his own desires? And last but not least..Should I get a hall pass from my loving wife? P.S. Cheaters suck! 

 

Your scenario is not cheating; it does not fall into the same realm of this discussion. We would think you would be considered a "single male" for all practical purposes, although we once had a threesome with the male of a couple we played with while his wife, who was aware and approved, was out of town on business. Yes, you need a hall pass, or something similar, to prove to the couples you play with that she approves. In our case, the wife, who initiated the idea, called us from London to express her approval.

[coolwetbreeze 15]

One thing we would never do is play with a married man. I have had men write and say the wife knows and says it's ok...I say so what...I could say I was Lady Di reincarnated but it wouldn't mean it was true. For the couples that swing with a man and know he is a married man they are just as bad as the cheater. They are more concerned with their genitals as you are. You say you love your wife and thats great. I'm sure she appreciates that. But if you really loved your wife you would not put your penis first...She would be first and so we have to wonder. You stated your opinion and your thoughts for all you married men out there cheating. And it's great that some people felt the need to private message you and send you e-mails with out going thru the board to give you the positive encouragment you need to make you think you are right in what you are doing. But what does that say about them...Most likely the ones that wrote were the couples that play with married men and the sorry ass married men that cheat.

[OhioCouple 41]

Originally posted by coolwetbreeze:

Most likely the ones that wrote were the couples that play with married men and the sorry ass married men that cheat.

 

I was also wondering why any member (and they would have to be a member to private message you) or one would e-mail you and not feel secure enough to post their thoughts on line and offer their perspective. Everyones opinions are just that and the majority of us respect it and move on when we disagree.

 

The only thing I can think of that you would have had those notes to you privately would be exactly as coolwetbreeze wrote. Deceptive cheaters themselves or those that condone them.

 

Lori

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

b4real,

 

One thing I have not seen you address here that I wanted to ask is this.

 

Does your wife know that you have sex with other people besides her? And if so, how does she feel about this?

 

If she knows and is ok with it, then great everything is fine, you have an open marriage and we can't fault that. If she doesn't know then yes you are a cheater just as everyone here has said and anyone who swings with you is only encouraging cheating.

[IndyDuet 15]

Originally posted by b4real69:

How many are open with ALL of their friends and accuaintences and tell them you are swingers.

 

How is it that not sharing intimate moments shared with my husband with friends, family or co-workers considered cheating? I didn't share this info before we entered the lifestyle, there is no reason to share it now. Seems to me you are just using this as a reason to justify your activities. You have never stated that your wife knows and consents to your activities and this is what makes it cheating.

 

Angie

[RnKin Fla 15]

While we don't condone cheating, our main concern is possibly getting hauled into court in a divorce proceeding. That's the main reason we don't play with married men.

[ciscosv 26]

I guess I missed this topic.

 

Hey b4real...be for real mate... I hope all works out for you and your wife.

 

[Some4mealot4her 15]

"Probably have better sex than most of you"????

 

Puh-LEEZE! How do you quantify that? Isn't that subjective???? CHEESE and Crackers dude....whether it's a 3 incher or a 12 incher...and the man's face looks like a glazed donut, or the woman is stretched and groaning all yummy like...you gotta KNOW..it's subjective to the individual's FEELINGS>>>>

 

You should be feeling about your wife man...I'm 45...strong sex drive for my age...but I don't play, w/o my babe...period. She has shot down a couple possible FMF (I like to call em...Jimwich's) because of WHATEVER reason...I just respect it...and go home and make F***in love to my babe of a wife.

 

Do your wife a favor. Stop CHEATING on her or Divorce her. She deserves better.

[knightmare 16]

b4real69 said:

As far as sex with my wife, we probably have better sex than most of you.

 

On what possible basis can you make that statement? I would venture to say that virtually every couple here, who is swinging and not cheating, would say that sex with their own spouse is the best there is. Furthermore, quality is far superior than quantity. Methinks you doth protest too much and are just dissatisfied at home.

 

b4real69 said:

What you all don't get to see are the private messages I've received and all the emails that are positive to my viewpoint.

 

Hmm, quite odd that there is not even 1 public response supporting your position, don't you think?

 

b4real69 said:

Also to all of you seemingly righteous people that think that I am cheating, bottom line is that you all are cheating also. Read your marriage vows again. They don't say it is ok to have sex with others as long as your partner agrees.

 

My vows don't mention sex at all. The issue of your cheating is not the act of sex, it is the fact that you are doing so behind your wife's back. You can cheat on her just by having an intimate conversation with someone just as much as by physical contact. It is a mental thing, not a physical one.

[Leonard 15]

For people to enjoy the swinging lifestyle and to share lovingly, their marriage must be secure. Cheating will not meet this criteria.

[LIZA 20]

The bottom line is that most couple are seeking other couple or single females

 

There are some couples who look for single men and they can pretty much have their pick of guys, because there are just SO many single men who want to be swingers

 

So there is really no reason why a couple should choose a married guy who is cheating on his wife. Most of us value commitment and have no desire to help you crap all over yours

 

You say your wife wants sex 4 times a week and you want it twice a day, so you feel entitled to cheat. Oh, Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

poor fucking baby

 

Guys like you are just too much, where you get you sense of entitlement is beyond me. You say you love your wife. If you love her, why not tell her the truth and give her the dignity to decide if she still wants to be married to YOU.

 

None of you married jerks ever seem able to do that one.

[iakatz 15]

I am probably a glutton for punishment but I feel compelled to reply to this thread. This is my first post after quite some time here lurking.

 

First off, I will tell you that I'm a mid 40's married man who is married to a wonderful woman who is 7 years my senior. We have a great life together and had a very active sex life until 8 years ago. Without going into a lot of graphic details, she was left not able to have a sexual relationship or the desire required to do so. I took her "in sickness and health" and I guess this is the sickness part.

 

She knows that I have needs and has given me permission to seek out sex outside our marriage as long I'm discreet and do not flaunt it in front of her. She has told me that she does not want to know who I'm with or the details, but I'm free to come and go as I please.

 

At first I could not envision me with anyone else, but a couple of years with no sex worked at changing my mind. You see...I still love her and our life together and she is my best friend and will be always.

 

There are a lot of self-righteous people on this board who would have me divorce her and move on with my life but doing so would destroy her which would ultimately destroy me. So what am I to do?

 

Some of you would say that I should go to my grave without anymore sex in my life because that is the card I was dealt. That's easy to say from where they sit whether they have sex once a day, week or even year. I even considered being neutered to remove the desire for sex but I don't seem to have the guts to do that. So I have sought out sex outside my marriage...I guess that makes me a "cheater" in most folks eyes and less than a decent human being.

 

I don't have the luxury of sitting in judgement of the people I have come in contact with in this endeavor. They have consisted of mainly lonely married women (yes...they were cheating), a couple of single ones and one married couple.

 

The couple that I was with was a good time and they didn't really care about anything else other than their (and my) pleasure. I would much rather be with people who swing because the sex is for recreation and not anything deeper.

 

I have been called more names than I can keep track of and have received many preachings from those who look down on me for being married and looking for some fun.

 

I read this thread and found most of the writers to be intolerant snobs that would probably sing a different tune if their sex life suddenly ended prematurely. It seems to be "in" to hate and discriminate against married men but I would bet that most would accept a cheating married woman into their bed without any hesitation.

 

I'm not saying that you have to consider guys like me, meet only the people who turn you on. Just don't be so judgemental and hateful to others who are different or in different circumstances than you are. Let the flaming begin.

[good times 991]

I don't think anybody is being hateful or judgemental at all. We just believe in calling a spade a spade. If you drive up to my house in a green car, no amount of reasoning or justification is going to convince me that it is red. I know that water is wet and fire is hot and when a married man is having sex with someone other than his wife, without her knowledge, it is cheating. No amount of explaining or justification is going to change that fact. I know that Every cheater their ever was had reasons and justifications that allowed it to be ok in his own mind, but that doesn't make it so. If a man or woman is a cheater then they aren't the kind of honest individuals I want to associate with. You say it is ok with your wife but she doesn't want to know about it. Do you have any idea how many cheating husbands use that line? I would bet it is over 90%, And I'm not saying it is never true, but I bet it isn't true most of the time. You went on to say that you had sexual relations with cheating married woman, you do realize, don't you, that it takes two to cheat, so that would automatically make you a cheater right there. Please be clear, I am not hateful towards cheaters at all, A much better term for my feelings would be disgusted.

[Alura 2,775]

Quote

 

Iakatz wrote:

 

She knows that I have needs and has given me permission to seek out sex outside our marriage as long I'm discreet and do not flaunt it in front of her.

 

 

If your wife knows and approves of what you're doing, I wouldn't call it cheating.

 

However, you should be aware that we on this board have heard your story many times. The reason for wanting to play without the spouse varies, but basically its "circumstances beyond our control" that cause people to look for sex outside their marriage.

 

You must also understand that these stories are hard to believe. There is always the factor that the spouse "doesn't want to know" but approves. That, to me, is cause to question the truth of the story because there is no way to prove what you say.

 

Many married couples will not play with single-married people. There are many reasons, but in our case, the main ones are:

 

1. We don't want to be involved in somebody's divorce or look down the wrong end of a Colt .45.

 

2. Cheating flies in the face of the swinging lifestyle.

 

However you and your wife work out your sex life is up to the two of you, but we won't get involved.

[cpl4playmass 31]

IAKATZ, You have discussed this with your wife and she has said she does not want to hear about it. You have permission, and it was discussed, you are not a cheater!! The other gentleman's woman said "no". So he's cheating!

[iakatz 15]

Quote

I don't think anybody is being hateful or judgemental at all. We just believe in calling a spade a spade. If you drive up to my house in a green car, no amount of reasoning or justification is going to convince me that it is red. I know that water is wet and fire is hot and when a married man is having sex with someone other than his wife, without her knowledge, it is cheating. No amount of explaining or justification is going to change that fact. I know that Every cheater their ever was had reasons and justifications that allowed it to be ok in his own mind, but that doesn't make it so. If a man or woman is a cheater then they aren't the kind of honest individuals I want to associate with. You say it is ok with your wife but she doesn't want to know about it. Do you have any idea how many cheating husbands use that line? I would bet it is over 90%, And I'm not saying it is never true, but I bet it isn't true most of the time. You went on to say that you had sexual relations with cheating married woman, you do realize, don't you, that it takes two to cheat, so that would automatically make you a cheater right there. Please be clear, I am not hateful towards cheaters at all, A much better term for my feelings would be disgusted.

 

This is the kind of reply I expected I would get, It must be nice to live in such a "black & white" world. You say that you're not judgemental but go on to call me a liar. I always tell the truth when it comes to my situation but most have the same attitude that you do. I would probably be better off to lie and say that I'm single but that kind of deception is not for me. If others I come into contact with lie about themselves or steal from the collection plate on Sunday, it's their business not mine. They have to live with what they have done and I will live with my actions. I'm a middle aged man living in a sparsely populated area of a sparsely populated state so my opportunities are few and far between. I don't have the luxury to be picky and evaluate the moral fiber of a potential partner. Walk a mile in my shoes before you condemn me...I hope that you never find yourself in my situation.

 

[good times 991]

I assure you I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree with you that their is any justification for cheating.

 

iakatz said:

Walk a mile in my shoes before you condemn me...I hope that you never find yourself in my situation.

 

Nowhere have I condemned you, I have only stated my feelings about cheaters, and only you know if you fit the description of a cheater. Even if I did find myself in your situation or worse, I could not 'walk in your shoes'. I can assure you their is no way I could justify cheating on my wife, no matter what the circumstances. If she can no longer provide me with sexual gratification. And she was not supportive of my seeking sex with others, but I still wanted to remain husband and wife. I would just have to be satisfied with taking care of things the old fashioned way, by hand. And even if she did encourage me to pursue sex with others I would never knowingly have that sex with cheaters.

 

You have noticed that many of us on this board feel pretty strongly about this. The reason for that is we run into this all the time. We go to a relatively small on premise club about 3 or 4 times a month. In the last month we have met two couples that come to the club because they can cheat on their spouses with little chance of running into them and getting caught at the club. I can't tell you how many guys we have seen at the club that we know to be married but try to pass themselves off as single. The ones that admit to being married have a story so similar to yours they could have read it from a script. So I would think you could easily see why we get so disgusted with it, and have such strong feelings about it. Like Mr. Alura said we don't want to be home wreckers or associated with cheating spouses because it is not what we are about.

[Drknow 47]

I'm married and my wife doesn't want to play, and doesn't want anything to do with any of this. I am learning from this site that there may be ways I can perhaps help to open her up to the idea of swinging but in reality it probably will not work. I love my wife and will not do this without her so I am probably destined to never getting to experience what all of you enjoy so much. So be it, I will not sacrifice my marriage for a little pleasure, but I wish I could experience my fantasy of swinging. This guy wants it all, I can't go there.

[Spoomonkey 421]

While I agree that if your wife has given you permission, then you aren't, by definition, a cheater - I also agree with Good Times and Alura (as I almost always do). It is a very common story.

 

But, giving you the benefit of the doubt, it is simply a matter of choice for us. We would not play with anyone - even if they had a note from their SO - if we could not meet and discuss the matter with the SO... For us - it is simple math - a man who would lie to his spouse = a man who would lie to us. It's just not worth the trouble. And on top of that, if the wife was willing to meet and discuss everything, we probably wouldn't want to go through that much trouble just to have a simple threesome that can be had with any number of single men without the complications.

 

I feel for your situation, I honestly do. I can not begin to imagine what life would be like if I lost Mrs Spoomonkey physically. I would likely be angry, frustrated, confused... In other words - a walking mess. But in the lifestyle, you have to have guidelines to keep yourselves safe and satisfied. One of ours is no married men without their wives. It is simply much easier that way. No - not all married men lurking around swinger sites are snakes, but you have to admit - they probably are the majority.

 

If your wife has encouraged you to seek your needs discretely, then I encourage you to do so. But that fact is very unlikely to change the opinions and strongly held convictions of the swing community. Married men will likely always be pariah here.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Drknow said:

So be it, I will not sacrifice my marriage for a little pleasure

 

 

Bravo!

[good times 991]

So be it, I will not sacrifice my marriage for a little pleasure

 

 

Absolutely right.

[OhioCouple 41]

While it may be that your wife has given you the permission to seek sex outside of your marriage, iakatz, as long as she doesn't know about it, you must realize that the majority of couples indulge in consensual sex with others, shared 'openly' between everyone significantly involved which in this case would include your wife.. While your honesty is admirable, you fail to meet that first criteria for the mass majority of swingers who believe in that open-ness ...which puts you in the 'major' minority. A male, (coupled or not) under consideration (for a threesome) with an open home which all can meet, climbs the ladder much higher in the endless sea of singles seeking to be a part of the swinging society. It is still very low on the totem poll though, as most of us aren't really willing to go to all of that work verifying their status. Granted a female may not go thru such scrutiny simply due to safety factors and the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of willing/wanna-be males to every female. It is a fact that you will have to deal with in the world of swinging.

 

And Goodtimes brought up a very valid point, which we agree with. You said:

 

Quote

They have consisted of mainly lonely married women (yes...they were cheating), a couple of single ones and one married couple.

 

If you had sex with someone that you knew was cheating, (even with your wife's permission to do so) then in essence you have willingly had sex with a cheater and that brands you as one also, even if by proxy. Your morals, (by your written word) are not any that we (OhioCouple) would be a participant of and unfortunate for you and others like you, not one that the vast majority of swingers care to be involved in.

 

Good for you that you have been able to find the sexual release that you so need, at the expense of someone else's spouse. Hopefully you will not find yourself being subpoenaed to testify about your involvement with the cheating spouse(s), and believe me that can happen. I personally did it in my divorce from my first husband when I 'finally' realized he was having affairs with other women, who just happened to be married also. I can tell ya...at least two married cheater's marriages did not survive, and the other underwent considerable strain for a long time. I've no clue if they are still together as that was nearly 20 years ago and I no longer reside in that area or follow that community.

 

It boils down to the risks ones are willing to take. Obviously you are willing to take that risk (even tho your wife has given you permission) but which would harm her more? Her meeting with those that you would fulfill your needs with, or having your family name drawn into court? You state yourself that you are:

 

Quote

....living in a sparsely populated area of a sparsely populated state

 

Imagine the headlines. Unlike big cities where if it even was considered news-worthy, it would be so far buried that the masses probably never read it. Small towns? My best advice is be prepared for it to be front and center for weeks if not months, should it ever come to that.

 

For us, we will continue to take the minimal risks and that exempts anyone that we cannot verify as being single or a couple. Male or female. No bias for either sex.

[mrs good times 73]

I understand your situation and have even discussed this possibility with Mr. GT on several occasions. I would absolutely give him permission to seek sex outside of our marriage if I were to become unable to perform but the difference here is that I would want to know, meet and give my permission to the couple or single that he has chosen to have this encounter with. I'm not saying flaunt it as even swingers don't flaunt their sexual encounters.

 

If your wife doesn't want to know then there is still some underlying problem with it for her. Consider her feelings here. If she has given you permission it was probably out of a sense of guilt that she is not able to give you what you need but the fact that she does not want to know about it means that it would hurt her to know that you are enjoying this part of your life without her.

[BradAndJanet 70]

iakatz, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and won't call you a cheater, but there's no way we're going to play with you unless we can talk to your wife first. There's simply no way to verify your story otherwise...even you have to admit that. We'd have to be sure we wouldn't end up facing an angry spouse someday in the event you weren't telling the truth.

 

I'm curious as to what reaction you were looking for when you posted. If your story is true, then you must know how rare your situation is and that many will not believe you. It's just to common a story told by many a cheater.

 

Additionally, as a highly sexual person who has gone without sex for long periods of time because of the medical concerns of my partner, I don't accept that a person has to have sex so badly that they'd go outside their marriage. My hand works fine and there are many ways to have a sexual relationship that don't involve the physical realm.

 

True, I haven't 'walked in your shoes', but you've offered little in the way of details about why your partner is unavailable for any type of sexual relationship with you. Perhaps I'm prying too much into her life here, but if you expect people to accept what you're doing, then you'll have to do better than that.

[cristo 15]

I'm new here, so pardon my barging in but I've heard this debate before among "cheaters" and "polys" (who I consider different from "swingers).

 

First, I understand where iakatz is coming from and admire his willingness to air his opinion. I'm sorry to hear people say they are "disgusted" by it or call him a "liar." To me, that just shuts the conversation down and I was hoping I found a board that was less judgmental of the sexual choices people make. Was I wrong?

 

Second, I'm wondering if the prohibition against married men who don't -- or can't -- bring their spouses isn't just another version of the prejudice against single men that's been talked about in another forum in this site. One writer said single men "don't bring anything to the table" as if a single man's sexuality wasn't enough. When my partner and I had threesomes with guys, it was because she wanted to enjoy another man's body. When we had threesomes with women, it was for my enjoyment. That alone was enough for the two of us. I'm wondering why there should be more, this is after all recreational sex where talking about here. Or, again, am I wrong?

 

Finally, on the matter of cheaters, I think there's a number of ways you can betray a marriage. You can betray it by going outside for your sexual needs. You can also betray it by no longer wanting to have sex with your partner. That being the case, and since every marriage is unique, I try not to judge too harshly either party.

[Spoomonkey 421]

cristo said:

I was hoping I found a board that was less judgmental of the sexual choices people make. Was I wrong?

 

Well - in a way - yes - you were wrong. Swingers have a very strong aversion to cheaters. I think that has been expressed very candidly on this and many other threads. I am well aware that there are swinger groups out there that have no problem with men who choose to have sex without their spouses knowledge, but thankfully this is not one of them. As a resource for new and interested couples, this is a great way to see healthy swing relationships at their best - fiercely loyal to the concept of honesty, communication and sincerity.

 

cristo said:

Second, I'm wondering if the prohibition against married men who don't -- or can't -- bring their spouses isn't just another version of the prejudice against single men that's been talked about in another forum in this site. One writer said single men "don't bring anything to the table" as if a single man's sexuality wasn't enough.

 

I am sure the sexuality is enough... For the single man. But it may not be enough for every couple involved in the lifestyle. For a couple seeking couples, then a single male is really not bringing much to the table. For the couple seeking single men, they bring plenty... But it is the ones who are honest and trustworthy that bring significantly more. I often wonder why this concept - while mind-numbingly simple - is so hard for most single men to understand.

 

In the case of a married man, playing single, all they really bring is drama and baggage and a couple who really values the concept of loyalty and honesty are not only justified, but incredibly wise to avoid such gentlemen like the plague. Why turn one unfortunate woman's problem into a problem for the couple as well?

 

Married men who wish to play without their spouses can cry foul until they turn blue and their man-milk curdles - but it isn't going to change the wisdom that most swinging couples share... A man who would cheat and/or lie to his spouse is not the kind of man a swinging couple should play with. The couple who does is not only contributing to the pain of an unsuspecting and undeserving wife, but they are also entrusting themselves to an admitted liar. That - in my opinion - would be foolish, thoughtless and stupid.

[EternallySingle 32]

Spoomonkey said:

...I am sure the sexuality is enough... For the single man. But it may not be enough for every couple involved in the lifestyle. For a couple seeking couples, then a single male is really not bringing much to the table. For the couple seeking single men, they bring plenty... But it is the ones who are honest and trustworthy that bring significantly more. I often wonder why this concept - while mind-numbingly simple - is so hard for most single men to understand...

 

I think its only hard for the single men who have NEVER had the opportunity to swing, either as part of a couple or as a single man. Its been my observation that close to 90% of the single men and half the couples that get involved in swinging now learned about it from some sex site, not the way I did from someone already in the lifestyle. It takes a while for them to realize what the true dynamics are (friendship vs anonymous sex, trust vs adventure) and once they do, most of the single men leave and most of the couples stay.

 

I did a search of SwingLifestyle and found that most of the single men that had free memberships hadn't logged on in months, while the number of men with paid and lifetime memberships were more or less equal to the number of single women. Also, all of the single men with paid memberships had logged on today and a quarter were certified. Even though there were way more single men overall, most get on for a couple or three months, complain that no one wants them, then realize they have to do more than say they have a penis and active libido to get laid. But that's just in my area.

[cristo 15]

Well - in a way - yes - you were wrong. Swingers have a very strong aversion to cheaters. I think that has been expressed very candidly on this and many other threads. I am well aware that there are swinger groups out there that have no problem with men who choose to have sex without their spouses knowledge, but thankfully this is not one of them.

 

Thanks for the guidance. I didn't realize this site was meant for only a certain type of swinger. I stand corrected.

 

But I'm afraid my larger point may have been missed here. (And to be honest, I'm wondering if some gender politics isn't being played out here. Most of this discussion has been dominated by men. I wonder what women would contribute.)

 

My point is simply that until I know the dynamics of someone's marriage, I'm really in no position to make a sweeping judgment call about someones honesty or character. How someone expresses his or her sexuality isn't enough of an indicator for me. There are people who would consider swingers unfaithful and be "disgusted" by the lifestyle. I'm sure most people on this board would disagree. I know I would. Having been judged that way -- and knowing its sting -- I refrain from judging others. (It makes me sad, for instance, when swingers call bi-men who swing "fags." Aren't we supposed to be above that?)

 

And since we all bring baggage to the table (what adult doesn't), I don't see why married men who swing should be automatically excluded. It hasn't been my experience that a married man instantly brings anymore "drama" into a situation than anyone else. Do others have horror stories they are willing to share?

 

But here is what confuses me. (And maybe its just because my spouse and I weren't looking for deep and meaningful friendships with our play partners.) Why the deep emphasis on someone's "honesty and trustworthiness" when we're talking about recreational sex? I understand the need for a baseline of honesty in any relationship, but why such an over-emphasis? If the concern is someone's discretion than a married man or woman who is cheating has even more to lose. And if the concern is STDs, than you're a fool for not using a condom. It's nice if the woman I'm with is being honest and straightforward with her husband (and just to broaden out the discussion, boyfriend or girlfriend). But when we're playing, that has about as much bearing as her credit score.

 

Really I've met swingers who were honest and straight forward with their spouses and liars in every other arena and men (but mostly women) who were having affairs but were kind and considerate people I would trust with my life.

 

Finally, I've met enough swinging couples who had their own dysfunctions going (one being pressured to swing; another with performance issues, nearly everyone with jealousy issues) that i can't start casting stones.

[Pepper & Drew 384]

I don't think it's so out-of-the-realm that a wife may give her husband permission to swing outside the marriage, especially if the wife has physical limitations. If something happens to me, I *think* I would allow my husband to still swing alone. To me, it's plausable that iakatz may actually have that situation in his life. Now, having said that, the she-doesn't-want-to-know-about-it part makes me squimish, and that's reason #241 why we don't swing with single males--married or single.

[Spoomonkey 421]

cristo said:

There are people who would consider swingers unfaithful and be "disgusted" by the lifestyle.

 

This is true. We don't play with them either

 

cristo said:

Why the deep emphasis on someone's "honesty and trustworthiness" when we're talking about recreational sex? I understand the need for a baseline of honesty in any relationship, but why such an over-emphasis?

 

Is this a serious question?

 

I mean, really? Is it?

 

The other night at the club, we were talking with a couple and things were going well. We really felt like we were hitting it off and we had both sent the other signals that this was likely to end up in a room. Mrs Spoomonkey went to the powder room and the Mr in their couple also took a stroll.

 

The Ms in their relationship, alone with me, tells me how much fun they have in the lifestyle, but they aren't really a couple - in fact, he has a girlfriend who would die if she found out what was going on...

 

So - guess what happens next? We sign up for more pool and let them drop their fish hook elsewhere...

 

He was a liar and a cheat... Nothing in the world he could say could make him anything more than that... Our choice - to be sure - but simply not the quality of playmates we are looking for. If he would lie to his girlfriend, he would lie to us. Sorry if that bothers us, but it does - deeply...

 

The fact that he has a girlfriend waiting at home who thinks he is "out with guys" or "working late" or whatever other lame-fuck excuse he gave for his shenanigans also sort of bothered us. I don't lie to my SO, I tend to expect the same sort of decency in the people we play with.

 

But - on top of all that is the fact that if we really whittled it down to a warm body with functional sex organs - I suppose anyone would do. But, using our methods, we have met much more than that. We have met warm friends with functional relationships... If we've hurt the feelings of the occasional cheat along the way, we'll just write it off as collateral damage.

 

We prefer to surround ourselves with people we may actually end up liking a little.

[good times 991]

I think Spoomonkey said it pretty good and I have very little to add to the points he made. My main problem is that, in my opinion, someone who would have sexual relations without their spouses knowledge is the same kind of person the would have no moral or ethical qualms about approaching my spouse behind my back. Additionally, I don't want to have any part of possibly causing someone else emotionall pain should they find out that thier spouse was interacting sexually with us without their knowledge.

 

It should be clarified here that I don't have any problem with the married male who is swinging with his wifes consent, as that isn't cheating.

 

I would say that this problem of married men cheating on their wives does somewhat impact the way we interact with "single males" because it is so common. Maybe it is just because we live in a tourist town, but at the clubs here, you can usually find at least one cheating spouse at the club on any given night, and usually more than one. And, allthough it's much more rare, it is not just males, we have run into several females cheating on their spouse at the club.

[BodyScape02 21]

There are two points you all seem to be missing is this…We do not play with cheaters for two reasons…

 

One: ~Cat knows personally what it is like to be cheated on, Married men who stray tend to treat their wives with disrespect eventually and the ensuing damage to the entire family caused by adultery is profound.

 

Two: It says a lot about you that you feel justified in cheating. It is OK for you to indulge in lying and concealing the truth from either your wife or the couples and singles that you wish to join you. To me that means you are a selfish son of a gun who thinks of yourself first and foremost…. Translates to “lousy self centered lover” to me. Not in theory but from experience. I am not interested in pillow queens or kings and since you are in this for you… you are welcome to yourself.

 

I will take the time to enjoy my love life with a lover who cares more about my pleasure than his own , as I care for his pleasure more than my own. Now multiply that with another couple and you have what swinging is really all about… 4 times the pleasure 4 times the fun…. And I go home WITH the one I love.

[iakatz 15]

A couple of you here are so busy preaching on your soap boxes that you missed what was meant by my wife not wanting to know. She knows when I meet someone and is fully aware of what I'm doing; I don't do this behind her back in any way. She does not care to know WHO I am with, she trusts my judgment and does not want to influence me one way or the other.

 

As far as me seeing the two married women that I referred to, one of the two never would say for sure what her marital status was. I only knew her first name and that it took her approximately 30 minutes to get to the place where we met the one and only time. She was too confident to be cheating and too secretive to be single, my belief is that she was probably a "hotwife".

 

The other married woman is separated and her divorce will become final soon. I really like her a lot and we have been together 3 times so far, she likes me because I don't beat her like her soon to be "X" did. Yes...she is still legally married so I suppose this could be considered cheating, especially by a couple of you, but I really don't feel that way.

 

Here's your chance, Good Times and Spoomonkey, to preach and tell me (and especially everyone else) what a low down son-of-a-bitch I am. You two really seem to get off on putting others down who don't fit your brand of morality.