Condom-only for birth control in the lifestyle?

[Emt 91]

My wife can't use any form of birth control. Hormones cause clotting and the copper IUD was horribly painful for months on end. So I got a vasectomy back in December.

 

For mostly STD prevention, we've both agreed to be what another guy in the lifestyle called a "condom-only couple" for intercourse. However, we also need condoms to prevent pregnancy as well. In the same conversation this guy told me about a time that he and his wife had swapped with another couple and the male half removed his condom mid-sex and tried penetrating her again. She covered her pussy and wouldn't let him.

 

I'm curious how common something like that is in the lifestyle? If a couple agrees to wearing condoms for intercourse is that typically stuck to or are a lot sneaky and try pulling it off along the way?

 

Thanks!

[Sawman 84]

Even in swinging you will find some unethical behavior like removing protection without the partner's consent and violation of other boundaries. It's too bad he chose to ruin what sounded like a wonderful time.

 

As for condoms as birth control we used for 25 years with success. No method is 100 percent effective except perhaps abstinence. I have heard that withdrawal can be as effective as condoms. In my experience the woman has more objections to latex than I do. Condoms are effective until they are not.

[Emt 91]

Even in swinging you will find some unethical behavior like removing protection without the partner's consent and violation of other boundaries. It's too bad he chose to ruin what sounded like a wonderful time.

 

As for condoms as birth control we used for 25 years with success. No method is 100 percent effective except perhaps abstinence. I have heard that withdrawal can be as effective as condoms. In my experience the woman has more objections to latex than I do. Condoms are effective until they are not.

 

Unethical?...in my book it's illegal. I'll have to figure out how to communicate the importance of condoms prior to game time.

 

When we were trying to get pregnant, it only took one try. So I know she's super fertile.

[adamgunn 1,460]

EMT, in years of playing with couples and quite a few single men no man ever tried to take off his condom without her permission - and that was very rare, only with one couple. Not saying it doesn't happen, it just never happened to us.

 

As far as the withdrawal method goes the Mayo Clinic site says, "As many as 28 out of 100 women who practice the withdrawal method for one year will get pregnant." You have to do it right *every time,* and at least part of the control rests with the man. For us, the risk would be too high.

 

I understand your problems with an IUD, etc. Have you considered spermicide? The Today Sponge looks like a good solution. (Negative reviews of years ago about Toxic Shock Syndrome no longer are accurate; they changed the product and reintroduced it in 2009. If you were to try this method I'd still use a condom for birth control; between the two methods, you'd have protection approaching 100%.

[Emt 91]

I understand your problems with an IUD, etc. Have you considered spermicide? The Today Sponge looks like a good solution. (Negative reviews of years ago about Toxic Shock Syndrome no longer are accurate; they changed the product and reintroduced it in 2009. If you were to try this method I'd still use a condom for birth control; between the two methods, you'd have protection approaching 100%.

 

Spermicide can actually be an irritant to the vaginal tissue which is what we experienced back in the beginning of our relationship. She has a really sensitive vag. Zero issues with latex, water based lubes, etc. But like I said, other forms of birth control just don't agree with her system.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

Again, I'm more curious about the culture and how to effectively emphasize the importance of condom use during the initial dialogue.

[njbm 2,872]

We use condoms for STD protection. They are not totally protective, but they help. I am not so confident in them for pregnancy prevention. I’ve had a few “accidents” where I left the condom in my partner. One went home with it in her and texted us that she found it while at home. Is it possible low hormone dosage BC pills would work for you?

[Emt 91]

njbm said:

We use condoms for STD protection. They are not totally protective, but they help. I am not so confident in them for pregnancy prevention. I’ve had a few “accidents” where I left the condom in my partner. One went home with it in her and texted us that she found it while at home. Is it possible low hormone dosage BC pills would work for you?

 

Unfortunately no. She tried them. Again, her body is WILDLY sensitive to any hormones.

 

As far as accidental removal where it slides off, that I can understand and we've had it happen several times over the years. No big deal, we'll just use the Plan B. But if it's intentional, different story.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

No way babe! Condoms break, and when they do, that's when they cum. I have also pulled condoms off with my contractions if a lover has or is cumming too. I have had to have a full condom fished out of my pussy more than once. We date a couple, and she is on the pill, but so ripe (got pregnant on the pill), that she'll only share anal sex unless her partner has had a vasectomy. I would never rely upon a condom for pregnancy protection. It's one thing for a husband and wife to have a loving accident, but not good if your best friend impregnates her.

[Eddiem 139]

Emt said:

I'm curious how common something like that is in the lifestyle? If a couple agrees to wearing condoms for intercourse is that typically stuck to or are a lot sneaky and try pulling it off along the way?

 

Thanks!

Most are cool with the rule! However most of us have had some less cool experiences. We had a couple we were first time playing with the guy removed the condom as he was adjusting it and he wanted to penetrate my wife. Well long story short some of these guys prey on people and the moment knowing that when the ladies are hot and ready they almost cannot say NO or stop. That is what happened to us.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

Most couples use condoms (at least the ones we know) and would NEVER try to remove it. We would never be with another couple that we didn't trust but if a couple did try something like removing a condom, then things would stop right then and there and we would never see them again.

[Emt 91]

Eddiem said:

Most are cool with the rule! However most of us have had some less cool experiences. We had a couple we were first time playing with the guy removed the condom as he was adjusting it and he wanted to penetrate my wife. Well long story short some of these guys prey on people and the moment knowing that when the ladies are hot and ready they almost cannot say NO or stop. That is what happened to us.

 

This seems like another example where it amounts to rape. I would think we would pick up on such a vibe prior to clothes coming off and just not engage, but if it's intentional it'll be dealt with accordingly. Play adult games, win adult prizes.

[Guest]

Huh? Rape?

[Guest]

This seems like another example where it amounts to rape. I would think we would pick up on such a vibe prior to clothes coming off and just not engage, but if it's intentional it'll be dealt with accordingly. Play adult games, win adult prizes.

 

Huh? Rape? Engage? You are totally full of it and eating your own shiat.

[Emt 91]

Huh? Rape? Engage? You are totally full of it and eating your own shiat.

 

If 2 people agree to have sex with a condom, then half way through one takes off the condom when they think the other isn't in a position to prevent penetration, they are lacking consent for that alternate penetration. That amounts to rape.

[njbm 2,872]

Maybe we meet more courteous swingers, but I have never seen or heard of a swinger removing his condom and proceeding bareback without the consent of the woman. I would be shocked if someone tried such a move.

 

We meet people for dinner first with no playing (vanilla) to try to get a feel for the couple as people. While we are not perfect at it, we choose to play with people that we like who seem respectful and have a good relationship with each other. If people want to play bareback, they are not for us.

 

We are also fortunate enough to have a small circle of trusted swinging friends that we’ve developed.

[Chris&Suzanne 204]

If you caught someone removing condom in secret. you should mention in a very loud voice, tell the club management =, and/or the party host.

[Emt 91]

Maybe we meet more courteous swingers, but I have never seen or heard of a swinger removing his condom and proceeding bareback without the consent of the woman. I would be shocked if someone tried such a move.

 

We meet people for dinner first with no playing (vanilla) to try to get a feel for the couple as people. While we are not perfect at it, we choose to play with people that we like who seem respectful and have a good relationship with each other. If people want to play bareback, they are not for us.

 

We are also fortunate enough to have a small circle of trusted swinging friends that we’ve developed.

 

While not specific to the swinger/lifestyle population, the practice of non-consensual condom removal during sex is called "stealthing". And it sounds like you have a great thing going with the trusted circle of friends. We hope to have the same in the future.

 

Thanks

[padoc 1,703]

Section 3121 of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code:

Rape.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a felony of the first degree when the person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant:

(1) By forcible compulsion.

(2) By threat of forcible compulsion that would prevent resistance by a person of reasonable resolution.

(3) Who is unconscious or where the person knows that the complainant is unaware that the sexual intercourse is occurring.

(4) Where the person has substantially impaired the complainant's power to appraise or control his or her conduct by administering or employing, without the knowledge of the complainant, drugs, intoxicants or other means for the purpose of preventing resistance.

(5) Who suffers from a mental disability which renders the complainant incapable of consent.

 

Removing a condom during consensual sex in NOT rape in Pa!

[Emt 91]

Section 3121 of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code:

Rape.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits a felony of the first degree when the person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant:

(1) By forcible compulsion.

(2) By threat of forcible compulsion that would prevent resistance by a person of reasonable resolution.

(3) Who is unconscious or where the person knows that the complainant is unaware that the sexual intercourse is occurring.

(4) Where the person has substantially impaired the complainant's power to appraise or control his or her conduct by administering or employing, without the knowledge of the complainant, drugs, intoxicants or other means for the purpose of preventing resistance.

(5) Who suffers from a mental disability which renders the complainant incapable of consent.

 

Removing a condom during consensual sex in NOT rape in Pa!

'

Problem is, sex at that point and in that manner would NOT be consensual.

 

According to Section 3121(a)(3), in this circumstance the victim would be unconscious that the intercourse would be happening as initially and mutually agreed upon due to the change by the perpetrator to remove the condom.

[MrandMrsA 76]

‘Stealthing’ Case Leads To Verdict On Sexual Assault Charges For Police Officer

 

If someone did that to my wife rape charges would be the least of their worries. It might be the one time I grab another man's genitalia - in order to rip it off!

[Guest]

Some options that spring to mind would be:

 

1: Meet a single women and swing with her, your wife isn't going to get pregnant from that

 

2: I think women can have their tubes tied / blocked which I assume is a reversible operation, so would give protection against pregnancy but if you wanted to have more children could have the procedure reversed maybe, I don't know you would have to look into it.

 

3: Limit the sex with other men to oral sex / anal sex.

 

4: I know there are also some more natural remedies that can act as contraception, not sure how good they are but basically people did use something before the pill / condom was created.

 

5: Would the morning after pill work?

 

6: Maybe use one of the vaginal caps and a condom as well.

 

7: Use your wife's monthly cycle and figure out when she would be least fertile and use a condom as well.

[Emt 91]

Some options that spring to mind would be:

 

1: Meet a single women and swing with her, your wife isn't going to get pregnant from that

 

2: I think women can have their tubes tied / blocked which I assume is a reversible operation, so would give protection against pregnancy but if you wanted to have more children could have the procedure reversed maybe, I don't know you would have to look into it.

 

3: Limit the sex with other men to oral sex / anal sex.

 

4: I know there are also some more natural remedies that can act as contraception, not sure how good they are but basically people did use something before the pill / condom was created.

 

5: Would the morning after pill work?

 

6: Maybe use one of the vaginal caps and a condom as well.

 

7: Use your wife's monthly cycle and figure out when she would be least fertile and use a condom as well.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Like I said, we are going to use condoms for intercourse and then have a Plan B pack for backup.

 

Thanks!

[padoc 1,703]

EMT, I don't know where you went to law school but your interpretation of 3121 a-3 would not get past a preliminary hearing and no DA or District Judge I ever worked with would permit such a charge to be brought. But what do I know? I only prosecuted dozens of rape cases.

[Emt 91]

EMT, I don't know where you went to law school but your interpretation of 3121 a-3 would not get past a preliminary hearing and no DA or District Judge I ever worked with would permit such a charge to be brought. But what do I know? I only prosecuted dozens of rape cases.

 

Google "stealthing" and "prosecution", let us know what you find. I see plenty of cases where it's blatantly called rape nationally and globally. I guess I'm curious why we are having this debate? How do you interpret the non-consensual removal of a condom during intercourse?

 

And while I'm not a lawyer, I have worked with 2 different prosecutors' offices and have seen some baffling things take place in a court room. So I'd never bank on what a judge or jury will do.

 

EDIT: http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/123-Blanco-FINAL.pdf This seems to suggest the wheels are turning and it says it's difficult to prosecute. Not impossible.

[1st3way4fun 42]

Plan b only works if you know there's been an accident. Condoms aren't always effective. Two of our kids are condom babies. When we were using condoms, we never had any indication of a malfunction. Removed them immediately after ejaculation....no evidence of leaking, breaking, etc. Unless my wife was fixed, or on secondary birth control, I wouldn't trust condoms only. Unless by plan b you mean abortion after the discovery of pregnancy.

[padoc 1,703]

Im writing about REAL life experiences in the Commonwealth in which you say you live. Global googles have no relevance in the Court of Common Pleas in any of Pennsylvania's 67 counties. You made a silly and uninformed assumption about the elements of a rape offense. I pointed that out and showed you the pertinent section of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code. Current statute and precedent does not support a rape charge for removing a condom during consensual sex. Move on.

[Emt 91]

Im writing about REAL life experiences in the Commonwealth in which you say you live. Global googles have no relevance in the Court of Common Pleas in any of Pennsylvania's 67 counties. You made a silly and uninformed assumption about the elements of a rape offense. I pointed that out and showed you the pertinent section of the Pennsylvania Crimes Code. Current statute and precedent does not support a rape charge for removing a condom during consensual sex. Move on.

 

Yes, you did point out the pertinent section of the PA code. But since then have neglected to acknowledge most of the points, links and all of the questions I posed in response and instead cherry picked what you felt you could support your grievance with based on your experience. And now you're resorting to name calling.

 

It seems to really have bothered you that I used the word rape where you did not feel it was warranted, justified,legally accurate, etc. But you have yet to answer my question about how it DOES appear to you (legally speaking). You've also referenced (non-consensual) condom removal during consensual sex several times and that statement seems to contradict itself so I guess I'd appreciate further explanation there.

 

Something interesting I did stumble across was that the intentional transmission of an STD in PA could constitute reckless endangerment, agg. assault, attempted murder, etc. But that's not what we're talking about here.

[Eddiem 139]

I can see that being the case however there is a notion that once in the LS one can slip up. Some guys are predators, others get too excited in the moment and like my wife and friend it was the heat of the moment with a trusted person and it was nature taking over as I could see how her body craved his cock after the first minutes of being uncomfortable.

Google "stealthing" and "prosecution", let us know what you find. I see plenty of cases where it's blatantly called rape nationally and globally. I guess I'm curious why we are having this debate? How do you interpret the non-consensual removal of a condom during intercourse?

 

And while I'm not a lawyer, I have worked with 2 different prosecutors' offices and have seen some baffling things take place in a court room. So I'd never bank on what a judge or jury will do.

 

EDIT: http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/123-Blanco-FINAL.pdf This seems to suggest the wheels are turning and it says it's difficult to prosecute. Not impossible.

[padoc 1,703]

I don't have a grievance, I simply think that its foolish to determine that something is a felony without the benefit of having actually read the statute or possessing the legal acumen to make the determination. As for name calling, didn't happen. I stated that your CONCLUSION was silly and unformed and then I illustrated why.

 

To answer one of your questions, under current Pa law slipping off a condom and continuing to have sex with a partner may be Indecent Assault, PaCC section 3126 a-1. The grading could be a 2nd degree misdemeanor or a 3rd degree felony depending upon the circumstances.

 

The google stuff, I don't really care, Im not a globalist. So far as I know, "stealthing" as described by you here is not a specific crime anywhere in the US.

[Emt 91]

I don't have a grievance, I simply think that its foolish to determine that something is a felony without the benefit of having actually read the statute or possessing the legal acumen to make the determination. As for name calling, didn't happen. I stated that your CONCLUSION was silly and unformed and then I illustrated why.

 

To answer one of your questions, under current Pa law slipping off a condom and continuing to have sex with a partner may be Indecent Assault, PaCC section 3126 a-1. The grading could be a 2nd degree misdemeanor or a 3rd degree felony depending upon the circumstances.

 

The google stuff, I don't really care, Im not a globalist. So far as I know, "stealthing" as described by you here is not a specific crime anywhere in the US.

 

While I don't share the same views on some of what you shared, I appreciate you addressing some of the points. I agree, let's move on.

[lcmim 1,082]

As for myself and the men I associate in the lifestyle, a guy who pulls that sort of thing could easily find himself being "reeducated" is one unpleasant manner or another. We all tend to be a bit protective of our ladies.

 

I might have to rescue him from my wife first though.

He might get injured.

[Emt 91]

As for myself and the men I associate in the lifestyle, a guy who pulls that sort of thing could easily find himself being "reeducated" is one unpleasant manner or another. We all tend to be a bit protective of our ladies.

 

I might have to rescue him from my wife first though.

He might get injured.

 

While we're both looking at swinging to increase pleasure and connection, and have no desire for violence, I think a rear naked choke or arm bar would be an effective way of at least peeling the offender off. If they want to fight past that point, that's their choice.

[Emt 91]

Plan b only works if you know there's been an accident. Condoms aren't always effective. Two of our kids are condom babies. When we were using condoms, we never had any indication of a malfunction. Removed them immediately after ejaculation....no evidence of leaking, breaking, etc. Unless my wife was fixed, or on secondary birth control, I wouldn't trust condoms only. Unless by plan b you mean abortion after the discovery of pregnancy.

 

Realized I missed this one. My wife is extremely fertile, when we were trying it took us.... once! Now before and after trying we got through close to 20yrs only using condoms. We did have a few accidents in which case she took Plan B and never had an issue beyond some cramping. To your point about not knowing, I'm not sure what that would look like? We've had condoms break and it was obvious, we've fished out condoms and again obvious. I guess one way to test for any level of failure on the condoms part would be to fill it with water and put pressure on it. Just never had it be an ambiguous issue.

[twohots4u2 188]

We used condoms only because my gal could not use the birth control pills. Apparently during an MFM the guy's sperm got into her and she got pregnant. He had a fresh condom on whenever he was in her so apparently he had sperm on his fingers while we were warming her up with foreplay.

 

From then on, she put in a Today's Sponge before we left the house or hotel room to meet up with the other guy(s). And, I keep an up-to-date package of Plan B for her in case a condom breaks or comes off.

 

Another method to guard against accidental pregnancy is for her to have a IUD put in her. Planned parenthood will do that for a very low fee. But, you should always use condoms to guard against STDs.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

I just spent ~15 minutes writing up a long response, hit the wrong keys, and POOF the post disappeared. Grr.

[Numex 2,419]

I just spent ~15 minutes writing up a long response, hit the wrong keys, and POOF the post disappeared. Grr.

That has happened to me. Now I routinely "select all" and then "copy" as I'm writing to save my work and "paste" if need to.

[Numex 2,419]

I believe that there are non-hormonal, non-copper IUDs available, otherwise known as "sperm scarecrows."

[kittyswinger 260]

I rely too on condoms for birth control. There was only one time that I experienced a condom failure. The rubber broke while a swing partner was inside me and I didnt notice. Good thing he owned it and never resulted in a pregnancy. To prevent stealthing, I do suggest:

* Make it clear to partners that the consent is only valid when protected. And they will be responsible for any outcome.

* Dont play when you are ovulating to reduce the risk.

* Practice self-awareness during the play. I know this might lessen the fun but it can be done with practice.

* It is better to play with people who you know personally (you know where they live, work, etc) and there is some level of mutual trust.

[TricianMike 772]

I just spent ~15 minutes writing up a long response, hit the wrong keys, and POOF the post disappeared. Grr.

 

Has happened to me too. If you are lucky your post was auto-saved and you can push the restore button if you haven’t already posted a new response. Restore is on the lower left of the dialogue box you were typing in.

[PeterJ 948]

I just spent ~15 minutes writing up a long response, hit the wrong keys, and POOF the post disappeared. Grr.

 

Yeah, this has happened to me on this site as well. I’m not sure you even need to hit the wrong key – it just appears to occasionally happen in a random fashion. Now if I making a post or reply that’s longer than a couple of sentences I open a text file in a separate app and compose there. Once completed I copy and then paste into a post here on the Swingers Board. Haven’t lost a post since.

[lcmim 1,082]

Yeah, this has happened to me on this site as well. I’m not sure you even need to hit the wrong key – it just appears to occasionally happen in a random fashion. Now if I making a post or reply that’s longer than a couple of sentences I open a text file in a separate app and compose there. Once completed I copy and then paste into a post here on the Swingers Board. Haven’t lost a post since.

 

That is exactly what I do for long responses.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Yeah, this has happened to me on this site as well. I’m not sure you even need to hit the wrong key – it just appears to occasionally happen in a random fashion. Now if I making a post or reply that’s longer than a couple of sentences I open a text file in a separate app and compose there. Once completed I copy and then paste into a post here on the Swingers Board. Haven’t lost a post since.

 

(and TricianMike, and Numex, and lcmim)

 

The keystroke closed the private window I had open for the purpose. When it closed, it dumped its local cache. It was gone completely. I was in mid sentence. Fumble fingers strikes again. :/

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

I go along with Alexsandra on this. We don't rely on one form of birth control. Condoms are good, and good for helping (helping) to prevent STDs, but they are just one thing. We would never rely on condoms alone. They can break, they can slip off, etc. Akin to Alexsandra, my wife has had boyfriends with whom she's played many times. With them, she plays without condoms. With any new players, it's always condom.