Did he cross the line?

[Pdxcpl1 21]

We met a couple online and have met with them a few times on vanilla dates, building more of a friendship over the past couple of months. We finally decided we would swing, but wanted to keep it soft swap at least for the time being, taking it very slow. They invited us to come and spend the night at their house and we took them up on the offer. Things were going well and the wives started playing together. Meanwhile the husbands were laying by their SO and touching the ladies. It was a very hot time, with all four of us intertwined. The swap with the opposite spouses was very minimal. At one point, I was eating my wife’s pussy and he was doing the same to his wife and then he stopped right about the time my wife was about to climax and he got in her face and tried to give her a loving stare then started kissing her. As I know my wife, that completely threw her off her game and she lost her orgasm. She motioned for me to get on top of her and said the guy freaked her out and made her feel uncomfortable. We decided to leave the play room and go play alone in the bedroom.

 

Again, things were going well and then he opened our door just as my wife was finishing an orgasm asking us to join them again.

 

The next morning my wife and I showered together and then as we were packing up the other couple comes into our room. My wife was sitting behind me on the bed and we were caressing one another while they talked. The other guy says he’s going to rub her back and hops behind her. This goes on for 15 minutes of which unbeknownst to me, he let his arm wrap around and rubbed my wife’s pussy twice when neither I or his wife could see. She was taken back by this, but didn’t know how to not be rude.

 

Lastly as we left, we all have hugs and when she went in to hug him, he grabbed her head awkwardly and made her kiss him.

 

This leads me to my question for everyone. Are we being too sensitive to let all this bother us or are we right in thinking he is crossing the line with the deep loving look during playtime with our own spouses, the barging in when our door was closed, the inappropriate massage the day after when we weren’t in swap mode and lastly the forced kiss?

 

They want to play again soon and we are trying to figure out if we just stop with them or tell them where things went wrong.

[padoc 1,703]

You failed to fully define your interpretation of the term "soft swap". Under most definitions, what you described did not constitute soft swap by our definition (sexual play between 2 couples without vaginal penetration). The guy pretty much stayed within the accepted definition of the word.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

The line is where ever you say the line is... if he made her feel uncomfortable, that's over the line. Now, if that line hadn't been clearly communicated, it needs to be now. If it had been, and he crossed it anyway, don't see them again. Above all, your wife (and you) should never worry about being "rude." If something happens that makes either of you uncomfortable, stop immediately and say something. "No" is a short, simple and powerful word. Don't be afraid to use it.

[Fitlakecouple 451]

Agree with the above comments. You seem to be using the term "soft swap" inappropriately. Why don't you say what is "in bounds" and "out of bounds". If you are only comfortable with G/G play and same partner play say so.

 

The best way to know if you are on the same page is to do something like the following: Example) Couple A to Couple B: We are interested in a soft swap play. Are you in? Couple B: Yes! Couple A to Couple B: What does soft swap mean to you? Couple B: We get to trade oral with you both! Couple A: No, we mean... Define your terms beforehand! Gain agreement beforehand...

[Pdxcpl1 21]

Thanks for the replies. We did discuss boundaries beforehand and we were open to everything but intercourse with them, with the understanding that we would let it flow naturally and stop where we felt uncomfortable. The problem started when he made her feel uncomfortable during play, which was why we left to be alone.

The next morning my wife felt he was being inappropriate because neither myself nor his wife could see how he was touching her and it felt secretive. We are pretty new to the LS, so some of this is more about our expectations.. Maybe it’s normal to continue that type of contact the morning after or maybe we need to be more vocal. We both felt like we weren’t in play mode the next morning, so it seemed kinda creepy and awkward.

[lcmim 1,082]

The problem with lines is twofold. First they are always in flux. Second because of this they are way too easy to trip over.

 

I would say that he did not cross any line. You may just be being a bit sensitive.

Being sensitive is both natural and your right.

 

While I do not think he did anything wrong, it was not right for the two of you. Stroking your wife's pussy in a casual way and "forcing the kiss" we would see as not over the line but an attempt to be passionate.

 

Doing something secretive is always a bad thing, but think about it . If you were to try to to do something "in secret" the scenario you describe would not be your first choice, would it? .

 

If you wife tried to pull away and he would not let her that is one thing, otherwise he was being assertive. Sometimes being assertive is very welcomed. He might not be very good in judging when and where it would be welcome. That can be tricky.

 

This couple may be good for you a year down the road. Right now you need to get a more complete view of the adventure. There were a few things early on that caught us off guard that now would go unnoticed.

 

Your post sounds to me as though you both may still have, a very common, fear of the unknown in this. I am just guessing, based on my own experiences, that once your wife realizes her power that this type of worry will go away for her.

[Pdxcpl1 21]

Good advice! You guys are helping us look at things from a different perspective!