Need an outside perspective

[KHlover 15]

SO and I have been in the LS for around a year. We've been together for 10 years. We have rules and boundaries set up for safety and attempting to keep our relationship solid and safe. We are normally transparent as far as communication and everything is talked about at this point since it is still relatively new to us. Here is the situation...

 

SO and I were invited to hang out with some chocolate friends and their vanilla friends for dinner and drinks with the original intent of playing after. Well, due to some minor health issues, I backed out of playing at least a week in advance with the intent of still going and supporting my SO if he wanted to play. Then, the day of the event the other wife said she wouldn't be able to play because of a small medical issue of her own. So we agreed on no play because neither woman could. So, we go and have dinner, and everything is normal. Other wife is getting a bit tipsy and has been sending pics to my SO (which is normal for them even if nothing is happening). We get set to leave and my SO and I had ridden with the other LS couple we are friends with. Her husband drives, I'm in the front seat and my SO and other wife are in the back seat. Well, I didn't know what was going on but I heard 'You're a tease' come from the back seat. I kind of glance back and didn't notice anything weird but my SO is behind me and I can't see him as it's dark and I can't turn the whole way. She passes out for about 10-15 minutes on our drive and then I hear them talk about her passing out for a minute, then it's quiet. I suddenly hear 'You're a tease' again and then she says 'Come here' and I hear them kiss. Now let me specifically say that he has kissed many women in and out of my presence at this point (and much more) and I have never felt hurt like I did right then. It was a weird, sad kind of hurt. Not like jealous or envious or angry. I felt like the situation had changed without my knowledge or consent or out of any consideration for myself or other husband. It stopped there but I didn't say anything right then because my emotions we're not in check. I just pushed it back, stewed on it for our drive home, which was hours long, and not once did he talk to me about it or tell me what happened. We ALWAYS talk about these things after as part of our after care even if nothing really happens. So, I didn't want to go to bed angry and I asked. 'So, I heard something going on in the back seat, what exactly happened?' he did say they kissed but I had to press to find out that he was sensually caressing her in a spot that is one of her major erogenous zones prior.

 

So, I have a few problems with this. One of our rules was broken. Also, I felt hurt because I was under the impression that nothing was happening. To top it off, she had been drinking and I wasn't sure that she could make clear decisions at that point of time. We have been modifying the rules a bit to accommodate situations like this. Establish what to do....but, he thinks things should happen organically. If someone says no but later changes their mind and starts flirting, with no further discussion or confirmation, it's game on no matter what. He feels it is more natural and spontaneous. Which is great, when everyone is on the same page. Based off of conversation, I was under the impression that everything was off the table and it would be a vanilla night. That, to me, warranted clarification on what would or could be happening to begin with as they had set my expectations of the evening by saying no. He says we would end up having to 'stop and ask permission' before taking things further which isn't natural or spontaneous. But I feel like lines could be crossed and people offended if everyone isn't on the same page. We aren't sure how to make this into a more coherent rule that works for both of us. I want spontaneous encounters but I feel like if anyone is changing their mind on anything it needs to be discussed. He says it should happen naturally that if it goes there no discussion is necessary if signals are being sent that it's go time. We don't know how to balance this out. Any help is appreciated.

 

 

TL;DR Have to create a new rule due to a very specific event and seeking help on making it coherent.

[Guest sdsevits]

First of all you are right, if no play was mutually agreed on beforehand then nothing should have happened. Your husband sounds like an asshole if that is his attitude and he is asking for big trouble. Since the other woman was drinking and maybe to drunk to consent he is pushing the envelope toward a rape charge. He needs to respect you, your feelings and your agreed upon rules. I also think he needs to stop thinking with his dick and start using his brain. The only thing we don't know is how did the other husband feel as he wasn't able to play with you due to the no play agreement also.

[adamgunn 1,460]

I think you're taking this a little too seriously. You say you're both into the LifeStyle; I assume that means you're both swapped with other people. Your agreement that evening was there was to be 'no play.'

 

Then you allowed alcohol into the situation, She got drunk, he probably was less than sober and YOU ALLOWED them to be in the back seat of the car. Why didn't you sit with your SO?

 

So, a little spit was shared. He held a boob or something; she may have touched his penis. That was it. Nothing serious.

 

Of course talk about it. Let him explain his side of it, he'll tell you that when you said 'no play' he probably thought that meant sex, either oral or penetrative, that it didn't mean a little kissing. Take it easy.

[GoldCoCouple 4,066]

If someone says no but later changes their mind and starts flirting, with no further discussion or confirmation, it's game on no matter what.

 

It doesn't matter what the rules are, if you both decided on what your rules are, then they are THE RULES. If he broke one or more, then it's a bad thing. That the other woman was 'passed out' for awhile from drinking makes it even worse.

 

He says we would end up having to 'stop and ask permission' before taking things further which isn't natural or spontaneous.

 

But you ALREADY, in advance decided that it wasn't going to be a 'play night'. There was nothing to ask. This is just disrespectful to you from the start. If he didn't think he could control himself, then he should have suggested cancelling.

 

I just pushed it back, stewed on it for our drive home, which was hours long, and not once did he talk to me about it or tell me what happened.

 

This is the bigger problem if you ask me. Stewing is the root of all things bad. Open discussion is the way to all things good. If you would have talked on the drive home, not with you being confrontational, but by just asking what was going on and explaining that you had both agreed that nothing was going to happen that night, things don't have the chance to become 'dark'.

 

In rereading your post, it sounds like he doesn't want any rules or limits. It also sounds like you need to work some on the communication between the two of you. If he wants things to be "spontaneous" and to "just happen", even after you requested that on that night nothing should happen...well, this just isn't a good thing and won't end well. You are a TEAM and he needs to think about the entire team before he thinks about his desires or he will find himself playing by himself. You need to talk and he needs to listen and be respectful towards you.

[KHlover 15]

He not an asshole just as Asperger's and doesn't process information the same way most people do. So, while he is using his brain he just doesn't always come up with the best responses or solutions. Which is why we have a pretty tight set of rules. We just don't quite know how to make it into a coherent solid rule for him to follow as gray area is a struggle. He needs to say it is one way or another, not circumstantial, which is how life generally is. We had a huge 3 hour conversation about it all.

 

We don't know how the other husband feels about it. They have a whole separate dynamic from ours that is a little more lax. I can't confirm that she was 'too drunk' but to me it seemed as if her judgement would be a bit impaired. She is also the one who kissed him. And for clarification his caressing wasn't groping her anatomy. It was sensually running his fingers on the nape of her neck which is one of her major erogenous zones. Rape is a pretty big leap and that is coming from someone who has experienced rape and has also worked in a law office. We did have a conversation about being clear on intent and consent. Consent seems to be a pretty big thing in the lifestyle (yay!) but apparently so is drinking. I don't think we've been in a situation that hasn't involved it except for us because we don't really drink. I felt it was a questionable enough event based off of previous conversation with the other couple.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Communication is the key. If you're uncomfortable you should say something. If he wants to change the game plan, he should say something.

 

If you're in a place where your rules are evolving, you need to work twice as hard at communicating. I can understand his desire for being "natural and spontaneous" but you still need to communicate. Communicating can, and should, be natural and spontaneous too.