Is there a need for accurate definitions?

[BlueStagg 57]

I think we need to have definitions for certain lifestyle related terms.

 

In the thread, “What's in it for the husband,” Machiavel55 made a claim that ‘hotwife couples have a 70% rate of failure.’ BlueStagg and bbarnsworth immediately questioned that statistic, and I also doubt it’s accuracy. However I don’t know of any studies that can disprove it.

 

One of the great problems we have on these forums is there is no generally accepted definition of what ‘hotwife’ means. It’s not in Merriam-Webster, and don’t get me started on the junk that fills up the urban dictionaries.

 

So, let’s suppose we were in a bar and trying to refute machiavel’s contention. He would be able to say, “Well, I know of 1,000 hotwife couples, and 700 of them were divorced after five years.” After further questioning, we find that of the 700 that got divorced, 600 of them were cheating on their husband. Machiavel is including cheating wives in his definition of 'hotwife,' whereas I would not. So I could say,” you’re wrong, the correct statistic is only 25% of hotwife marriages end in divorce.” (100 divorces / 400 marriages = 25%)

 

Of course, machiavel’s going to dispute that, claiming his definition is the correct one. Now we’re arguing over what words mean, not how stable a hotwife relationship is.

 

I get frustrated by this lack of definition. Just for starters I can name ‘swinger,’ ‘hotwife’, ‘cuckold,’ ‘compersion’, ‘jealousy’, ‘angst.’ And if we thought further I’m sure we could come up with at least five more imprecise terms we use here all the time.

 

I’m thinking that perhaps we should start a series of definition threads. For example, “The definition of ‘hotwife’ is . . . “ Then we could all hash it out until we come to general agreement. If it came down to two or three selections, we could put up a poll and see what the majority opinion is. Then, when somebody claims cheaters are hotwives, we could then say, “No, according to the accepted definition, you’ve got it wrong,” and we could point to the poll.

 

I’d be willing to start it out. What do you guys think?

 

Great thread! I call my wife a hotwife. That said there are things we don't do that some may do. She does not play alone. I like to be involved and see her pleasure.

 

I definitely do not identify as a cuckold because my understanding is there is a humiliation aspect to that.

 

As far as the divorce thing goes, I agree that once there is cheating then it's no longer a hotwife situation. To me there has to be consent for it to be a hotwife relationship. Even though my wife has sex with other people, she is not cheating on me. Couples in my situation I would imagine have a lower than average divorce rate, due to the openness that this lifestyle brings

[padoc 1,703]

We've been swinging for more than 15 years and have met hundreds of couples. Please understand that we've not been intimate with all of them or even half of them but open swingers are a very small portion of the general population. So, I'd say we've met and talked with a lot of swingers in two hotbeds (pun!!) of this hobby, the Northeast I-95 corridor and South Florida. I'd think we have a decent sized sample. Most of those we've known are still in their marriage/relationship and many are still swinging. We do know of several couples who have split over those 15 years but I don't think the number is any more than one would find in the non-swinging population and I speculate that it's proportionately much smaller than the general population.

 

Did you see what I did there Mac? I used direct experiences and personal knowledge to draw conclusions. What I didn't do is throw out numbers and make up statistics without data and present them as fact. You should try it my way, it makes your comments more credible

[BlueStagg 57]

We've been swinging for more than 15 years and have met hundreds of couples. Please understand that we've not been intimate with all of them or even half of them but open swingers are a very small portion of the general population. So, I'd say we've met and talked with a lot of swingers in two hotbeds (pun!!) of this hobby, the Northeast I-95 corridor and South Florida. I'd think we have a decent sized sample. Most of those we've known are still in their marriage/relationship and many are still swinging. We do know of several couples who have split over those 15 years but I don't think the number is any more than one would find in the non-swinging population and I speculate that it's proportionately much smaller than the general population.

 

Did you see what I did there Mac? I used direct experiences and personal knowledge to draw conclusions. What I didn't do is throw out numbers and make up statistics without data and present them as fact. You should try it my way, it makes your comments more credible

 

Bravo !!

[cplnuswing 4,713]

I think those would be great threads, and tbose kind of topics are exactly why we created the Swingers Labels and Lingo forum here.

 

One can debate whether the need to split hairs and come up with a new label for it is a good thing or not, but fact is, words sre important since they help everyone understand the situation at hand, and that helps avoid getting yourself into situations that weren't at all what you expected, which is never a good thing.

 

Another thing I have noticed too that is interesting is how some zwingers may a swinging term one way, and the nonswinging world may use the same swinging term another. One example would be "MFM threesome" vs. "MMF threesome". To some swingers I think those two are seen differently, firat one no male on male sex, second one with male on male. When you look at those two terms regarding their use in google searches, from the relative numbers it's obvious that the world at large favors the MMF as any threesome involving two males and one female.

 

Everyone start some threads!

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

Having some definitions would help to a degree, but it would still be a variable thing depending on the couple. My wife can play solo if she wants to, and she does from time to time. Is that a hotwife? For some couples it is. Some couples would say she's not a hotwife unless she does so without my knowing in advance. Some couples would say that a hotwife doesn't have to involve solo play. I don't think we're all going to get into agreement on terms.

 

A truly scientific study would establish the parameters for that study alone and go from there.

 

As to Machiavel's assertion; I don't have to refute it. It's vacuous. There's no basis provided for it. To paraphrase Lionheart72, there's a 83% chance it's made up

 

I remember reading a thread here ~10 years ago. It was a poll which asked whether swinging had strengthened, weakened, or was a neutral impact on people's marriages. As I recall, 70% said is strengthened their marriage, 28% neutral, and 2% weakened. It's not a scientific study though, as the group being polled were people who are still in the lifestyle, thus biasing the results. Machiavel's statistics, even if not made up, very likely suffer the same problems. As I noted before, sociologists don't tend to research swinging. It's a corner of society that just gets ignored in the scientific world.

[adamgunn 1,460]

Barnesworth, you're right - it would be a variable thing depending on the couple. My hope would be to find a definition that would be generally accepted. So, for your example, I'd begin with the definition of a hotwife would include group sex and going solo.

 

(That's not the definition, that's yet to come - - if we do this.)

[cplnluv1 872]

I never understood what Hotwifing meant. I think it’s letting a wife play while the husband watches I have no clue to how many of those relationships fail.

Statistics to show 45% of ALL first marriages fail and I think more than half of all second marriages fail. Those are published statistics.

Does swinging in general increase or decrease divorce rates. Some will say the marriage has gotten stronger after swinging. I don’t know if we are stronger, we are just having fun. We have met couples thinking they needed to swing to strengthen their marriage, I don’t think that works. Those couples already started with a problem. Most likely seeing a therapist might have helped more. Swinging is for fun, not to fix a problem.

My take is couples with problems have a higher rate of failure, meaning the failure rate of over 50%. I can’t believe the failure rate amongst swingers is lower than the general population.

[adamgunn 1,460]

So, let's bring it back to the topic. Please read my first post. Is there a need for accurate definitions, and if so is it worth this board's time to try to create them?

[cplnluv1 872]

So, let's bring it back to the topic. Please read my first post. Is there a need for accurate definitions, and if so is it worth this board's time to try to create them?

Sorry, I went off topic.

Like so many definitions in the dictionary, there might be more than one meaning to a term. What does soft swing mean? What does double penetration mean?

[MrandMrsA 76]

So, let's bring it back to the topic. Please read my first post. Is there a need for accurate definitions, and if so is it worth this board's time to try to create them?

 

What does it mean for a marriage to "fail". One year, 5, 10, 25? What if both parties find greater happiness through what they learned in their first marriages?

 

I need a definition! :lol: