Trapeze reopens on May 20! Atlanta and Ft. Lauderdale.

[njbm 2,880]

What could go wrong? Have sex six feet apart? Kiss and perform oral with a mask? Who would go? Not us. Hope they don’t start a huge cluster and wind up on CNN. Imagine contact tracing? The guy with the birthmark on his....  I wish them the best, we had fun in the Fort Lauderdale club multiple times, but it seems too soon to me. 

[NWAtlSwing 522]

Good for them. Time to go back to living. We flattened the curve. That was the goal, not to stop people every getting COVID any more than we shut things down for the flu.

[padoc 1,703]

I'm happy that they're reopening!  A swingers club is for consenting adults. Let them do what they choose to do. We make informed decisions every time we meet another couple and every time we get naked.  This is no different than deciding who to have sex with or if you're going go bareback or condomed. If you don't feel safe, stay home.  It's every persons RIGHT to choose what they want to do. Im really tired of government attempting to limit my freedom of choice.

[njbm 2,880]

I do not want to edge into the political. But if a person goes to a swing club in a pandemic in which cases are rising, that is their risk and choice. But if that swinger contracts it and transmits it to five other people at work, at their home or at the grocery store, those five people did not agree to risk contracting the virus. Your freedom stops when it infringes on an innocent person’s right to their health. I don’t think that a swing club entails safe conditions. I guess we’ll hear how this works out. I think that I know.  

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

This highlights the contrast between public health and economics. Trapeze owners are making a calculated decision. It is likely that a swing club will promote transmission. It is also likely that there will be secondary infections. If that can be proved, for example by sequencing the nucleic acid from persons at the center of the club outbreak to secondary infected persons, it will open up not only a new world of contact tracing but also some new areas for litigation. Who, precisely, is responsible if the index case enters the swing club, infects half a dozen people, and those go on to infect a couple of dozen more--and the latter group includes two deaths? The index case for "you should never have come in"? The swing club operators? Those half dozen initially infected for failing to self-quarantine for two weeks following a risky event?  There will new case law. 

[padoc 1,703]

That may or may not happen. However, shutting down a 1st world economy for 3-4 months or 6 months or a year is about the quickest way to reduce a country to 3rd world status. There are hundreds or thousands of business and millions upon millions of citizens who have been unable to work by government fiat. It Trapeze wants to open, that should be their decision. Those who choose to go and play, if they have a tv or internet, know the risks and going to the club should be their decision as well. 

[Fitlakecouple 451]

1 hour ago, Fundamental Law said:

This highlights the contrast between public health and economics. Trapeze owners are making a calculated decision. It is likely that a swing club will promote transmission. It is also likely that there will be secondary infections. If that can be proved, for example by sequencing the nucleic acid from persons at the center of the club outbreak to secondary infected persons, it will open up not only a new world of contact tracing but also some new areas for litigation. Who, precisely, is responsible if the index case enters the swing club, infects half a dozen people, and those go on to infect a couple of dozen more--and the latter group includes two deaths? The index case for "you should never have come in"? The swing club operators? Those half dozen initially infected for failing to self-quarantine for two weeks following a risky event?  There will new case law. 

For the sake of argument - why would it be any different than someone attending services at a megachurch who has chosen to thumb their noses at social distancing guidelines and remain open to keep that money rolling in.

[njbm 2,880]

17 minutes ago, Fitlakecouple said:

For the sake of argument - why would it be any different than someone attending services at a megachurch who has chosen to thumb their noses at social distancing guidelines and remain open to keep that money rolling in.

No difference in my opinion. Except the swing club would be more fun. 

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

1 hour ago, Fitlakecouple said:

For the sake of argument - why would it be any different than someone attending services at a megachurch who has chosen to thumb their noses at social distancing guidelines and remain open to keep that money rolling in.

Disclaimer: We are not attorneys. We have sat on juries. We have testified as experts. 

 

We are not sure there is a distinction. This is why case law may be important. We observe that other businesses (and yes  megachurches are businesses) probably have signage encouraging social distancing, advising patrons/worshipers to take some precautions and so on. In contrast, here is the banner at the Trapeze ATL website: "ATTENTION: We are reopening! Atlanta will open on Friday, May 22nd! Cum play!"  One can imagine that on a 3'x 9' display in front of a jury where the decedent's family related how their loved one was unknowingly exposed to the person who attended (and caught the virus) on 22 May at Trapeze--and yes, it can be shown to a level of certainty that the virus was transmitted from the defandant to the plaintiff's family. So the next question involves "reckless endangerment" --the patron, the establishment, or jointly liable? Whatever you or I might think, what matters is what an attorney can persuade a jury to think. 

 

We are going to sit this out and see what happens.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

2 hours ago, padoc said:

That may or may not happen. However, shutting down a 1st world economy for 3-4 months or 6 months or a year is about the quickest way to reduce a country to 3rd world status. There are hundreds or thousands of business and millions upon millions of citizens who have been unable to work by government fiat. It Trapeze wants to open, that should be their decision. Those who choose to go and play, if they have a tv or internet, know the risks and going to the club should be their decision as well. 

We are not challenging that position; rather we meant to explore the consequences of making the decision. It is not just swing clubs that are affected; it is the entire entertainment/travel/hospitality sector that depends on bringing people together. 

 

There is also the aftermath problem: social distancing kept many areas' healthcare systems from being overwhelmed. There have been serious exceptions: NYC; Albany GA, New Orleans, LA, ...   Atlanta (Trapeze and also our hometown) escaped being overwhelmed, and partially as a consequence our Governor decided to be in the vanguard of 'reopening'. We are still too early to understand the consequence of that decision as it will affect health and healthcare. 

 

As for "knowing the risks", we might suggests that we have somewhat more clarity on risks than we had a couple of months ago. We do not have certainty. And our medical countermeasures are still very weak. We happen to work in healthcare, and have seen -- and directly cared for --several colleagues seriously ill with the virus. At least some of them had no apparent predisposition--age, underlying condition, and so on. 

 

We endorse your libertarian perspective--risk is personal. We think you will agree that the consequences of those risks also need to be personally embraced. We are curious to know your opinion of "corona parties" and other situations where persons have optionally (we exclude first responders, healthcare workers and so on who must put themselves in harm's way) and deliberately placed themselves in the path of infection?  What do you see as their responsibilities?

 

[njbm 2,880]

I can wait until there is a vaccine, effective treatment or the virus peters out. Not in a rush to contract and/or spread a life threatening disease. 
 

Sort of like going to a gay bathhouse during the height of the AIDS crisis. You can do it, you can have your freedom, but the last ride wasn’t pretty.  

[MarniJohn 172]

There are swingers from these clubs that have been holding private parties the entire time.  I don't agree with their decision but my freedom is the choice to decline the invitations to attend.  They argue that swingers are risk takers and they are not worried about getting sick.  My argument to them was that I am concerned not strictly for myself, but for those around me that I could unintentionally contaminate.  Apparantly this makes me a pussy....  These are the folks that are waiting for the doors to open.

 

I agree in terms of the problems businesses are facing that we must reopen to avoid total collapse.  Perhaps there is a way they can reopen for social purposes, not sexual... I'm laughing as I write this because I know that's impossible.

[njbm 2,880]

Imagine the great publicity for the lifestyle if a big outbreak is contact traced to a swingers’ club? Not far fetched. 

[cplnuswing 4,713]

37 minutes ago, njbm said:

Imagine the great publicity for the lifestyle if a big outbreak is contact traced to a swingers’ club? Not far fetched.

Agreed, not far-fetched at all.  I can see the headlines now "Sex Addict Swingers Trigger New Outbreak".  And, it would be true.  Same would be true if it was "Churchgoers Trigger New Outbreak", but that's sort of irrelevant, which one do you think is going to get more attention and the group as a whole suffer more blowback?  The places there are swingers clubs, they are tolerated at best.  Plenty of threads here on this site where clubs had their nailhead get stuck up, sometimes their fault, often not, and have been hammered down for reasons, legit or non-legit.  Those sort of shutdowns are permanent.  Yeah, it sucks, but swingers have to realize they are a marginal small group with no power and have to do their own PR if they want to continue to be tolerated, and that PR needs to demonstrate they pose no risk to the community in any way, shape, or form.

 

Menages in Nashville announced they hope to be opening in some capacity within a month.  One thing that was mentioned was no more than 50% of usual capacity.  We'll pass, for now.  Not forever, but for now...

[padoc 1,703]

5 hours ago, Fundamental Law said:

We endorse your libertarian perspective--risk is personal. We think you will agree that the consequences of those risks also need to be personally embraced. We are curious to know your opinion of "corona parties" and other situations where persons have optionally (we exclude first responders, healthcare workers and so on who must put themselves in harm's way) and deliberately placed themselves in the path of infection?  What do you see as their responsibilities?

 I agree completely!! Which is why we will likely wait another month or so before we even consider a trip to the east coast to trapeze. We DO know more today than we did in February about this virus. I think that corona parties or even church services are a matter of personal choice. At the beginning, we would and did choose not to go in either direction. We'd still decline a large corona party invitation but we might go to church and, we'd certainly consider a small house party where we knew and trusted the guests. Would there be somewhat of a risk? Of course and if we got sick (or got an std…at the party, NOT church) we might ultimately regret the choice but it is ours and we think it would be a fairly well informed choice.

 

 The bottom line to me is that we in the US have a constitutional right to assemble and to practice our religion, to travel between states, and to engage in commerce. Distancing guidelines and masks are just that, guidelines. If it goes beyond that, such as telling people they must stay home, close their businesses and churches and bankrupt themselves or face governmental sanctions of some sort then our rights are being usurped by the state. 

 

[njbm 2,880]

Just have to point out that if one goes to a small house party where they “know and trust” everyone, coronavirus can be spread by people who are asymptomatic.  

We know of swingers who go bareback with people they know and trust. The people they know and trust may have HPV and/or HSV. And may not know it themselves.  Which can also be transmitted even if condoms are used.  We understand there are different risks we accept in sex, driving, flying. HPV and HSV are not typically fatal. Coronavirus, I’d rather not find out the hard way.  

[lovefest04 700]

You won't catch me at Trapeze yet.

 

I don't believe the question of opening up is either yes or no. It's about how to open the economy. It's about opening the economy using and being informed by that data we have collected which is some but not a lot to date.

 

To be clear, we have done nothing to combat the virus. It is still around and it hasn't been stopped at all in any way. We all got out of it's way so that less people were infected, but that's all. We shouldn't kid ourselves that flattening the curve is somehow equal to fighting the virus.  It is not. The virus is here and it's as strong as it was in February.

 

We do know that certain populations are far more susceptible, have much higher incidence of death and therefore we should and can segment the population in terms of risk factors. Then an opening plan could be created for the low risk populations and for the high risk populations.

 

Ultimately, the virus will be spread no matter how we open, we currently have no way to control that. What we can control or attempt to is the number of deaths associated with contracting the virus. Also, there is no information yet about building immunity by being exposed, so opening and getting infected may not help in the long term fight against the virus. The concept of 'herd immunity' is just that at this point, a concept.

 

If we add social distancing and masks for the low risk population, we could expect to see a lower incidence of infections and certainly a low incidence of death. Those under the age of 50 in good health should be allowed to return to work, with precautions. Outside areas should be opened as well, again with minimal but clear social distancing and precautions.

 

The difficulty is what to do with the high risk populations. Which according to the data I've seen are those over 50 years with 1 or more preexisting conditions or over the age of 80. Pre-exisiting conditions which have been highly correlated to death from the virus include but are not limited to: Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, Asthma etc. Those over 80 have an extremely high probability of death if they are sickened by the virus no matter what. These populations require guidance specific to their needs and different from the 50 and younger crowd.

 

Then, once this plan is created then we can look at the economic needs. Until, then we are throwing money into a black hole which I would argue is bad policy as well.

 

[lovefest04 700]

Compared to the risks of swinger sex, the virus is FAR more troublesome. Last I checked getting a woman pregnant via swinging didn't mean all the women would get pregnant nor their friends in their vanilla life. We shouldn't compare the virus to things that are self-contained like STD's, etc.

[padoc 1,703]

13 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

I

16 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

Those under the age of 50 in good health should be allowed to return to work,

 

THAT is my point….The government, city, county, state or federal, does NOT have the authority to tell me whether or not I can go to work, or have three naked couples in my spa (so much for distancing) or go to church or go to a sex club. Who determines if Im in good health? Will there be a selection process? Will we be issued a work permit or a health certificate? I can hear it now…."PAPERS, schnell!!  We already have local tv station websites providing phone numbers for people to report "violators" of social distancing or mask requirements to the "authorities". If this kind of crap doesn't scare you, you have not studied history.

[njbm 2,880]

We all have to do our due diligence and make decisions that work for us. It's just that other people's decisions can reverberate back to us. The people who go to Trapeze may be our friends. The people in a church choir may be our relatives. We rely on our community to make good decisions. Or else we get it.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

OMG! This is not that bad. Talk about being overblown. I guess we are all willing to risk herpes, but a disease that kills mostly people over the age of 70 in nursing homes? No way man.

 

As if colds and the flu are not transmitted at swinger clubs. This disease has been blown out of proportion. Yes it is novel, but the goal of the shutdown was not to avoid people getting it, but to flatten the curve. the only way, the only way, this will die down is with herd immunity. If you want to shut yourself in until there is a cure or a vax, good luck with that.

[Guest]

How about being a little creative? Glory holes? Covid is respiratory transmitted and the DNA has been found in Men's semen, but just inert pieces of it and there is no evidence that it is transmitted sexually. I have backed my fanny up to a hole in a door and it was fun and erotic. Maybe Trapeze can control a few glory holes as an option. 

[NC_Seniors 518]

19 hours ago, padoc said:

The government, city, county, state or federal, does NOT have the authority to tell me whether or not I can go to work, or have three naked couples in my spa (so much for distancing) or go to church or go to a sex club.

Actually ... yes they do.  I refer you to Jacobson v. Massachusetts from 1905, in which the SCOTUS determined — as described in Wikipedia — “that the freedom of the individual must sometimes be subordinated to the common welfare and is subject to the police power of the state.”  So we can debate whether they’ve gone too far all you want to, but they’re absolutely within their rights!

[Fitlakecouple 451]

13 minutes ago, NC_Seniors said:

Actually ... yes they do.  I refer you to Jacobson v. Massachusetts from 1905, in which the SCOTUS determined — as described in Wikipedia — “that the freedom of the individual must sometimes be subordinated to the common welfare and is subject to the police power of the state.”  So we can debate whether they’ve gone too far all you want to, but they’re absolutely within their rights!

What we think of as rights are actually temporary privileges that can be revoked whenever they want. Just ask all those American citizens  (of Japanese heritage) that were put in internment camps during WWII. I can hear them right now - "But, I have rights..."

[Numex 2,420]

It's all a matter of where you draw the line, a topic of endless debate. 

[PeterJ 954]

1 hour ago, Fitlakecouple said:

What we think of as rights are actually temporary privileges that can be revoked whenever they want. Just ask all those American citizens  (of Japanese heritage) that were put in internment camps during WWII. I can hear them right now - "But, I have rights..."

The limits of individual rights vs. society-wide concerns are constantly evolving. For instance, the owners of public accommodation had the right — affirmed by prior court decisions— to discriminate based on race until the Supreme Court ruled they didn’t. This week the Wisconsin Supreme Court overruled the state’s governor’s plan to provide better public safety by extending the state’s-wide lockdown. There have been several similar state and federal (lower) court rulings. We should expect more of these decisions, depending on the overall political leanings of states’ appellate courts.

 

It remains to be seen what the effect of these court decisions overruling executive office emergency social-distancing edicts will be on the public health of our nation. Given the diversity within our 50 state governments we have an interesting natural-world experiment our nation is embarking on. The limits of the novel coronavirus’s strengths will decide which public health and economic approaches provide better results.

 

 

[Jane1902 476]

Is the reopening within the local guidelines? It would be nice if we could trust people to always do the right thing, but they don’t. Some areas have lowered the curve, not had the expected surge. We do know there are silent spreaders and the virus has been detected three weeks after initial testing. So much for temperature checks and two week quarantines.  I understand those at risk wanting to feel safe too, but I can’t live in constant fear. I find the mask police annoying, wish I could be trusted to go to the beach and socially distance myself.  There is an unhealthy side to the isolation and anxiety. Grocery shopping has an added weight, some days I don’t want to go outside for a walk. Unfortunately a public health concern has become a political issue.

On a lighter side the fact that research has been done to detect the virus in semen of very sick patients, some hospitalized at the time the samples were obtained. How do you ask for that lab sample? Who and why did this come up? 

Stay safe, take care of yourselves. Hope for some good to come out of this in the long run.

[Fitlakecouple 451]

1 hour ago, PeterJ said:

The limits of individual rights vs. society-wide concerns are constantly evolving. For instance, the owners of public accommodation had the right — affirmed by prior court decisions— to discriminate based on race until the Supreme Court ruled they didn’t. This week the Wisconsin Supreme Court overruled the state’s governor’s plan to provide better public safety by extending the state’s-wide lockdown. There have been several similar state and federal (lower) court rulings. We should expect more of these decisions, depending on the overall political leanings of states’ appellate courts.

 

It remains to be seen what the effect of these court decisions overruling executive office emergency social-distancing edicts will be on the public health of our nation. Given the diversity within our 50 state governments we have an interesting natural-world experiment our nation is embarking on. The limits of the novel coronavirus’s strengths will decide which public health and economic approaches provide better results.

 

 

That's the point - the wave of a hand, the stroke of the pen, and 'poof' your precious "rights" can be gone in a flash.

[padoc 1,703]

6 hours ago, FullSwapCLT said:

Maybe Trapeze can control a few glory holes as an option.

Trapeze doesn't have a glory hole room but it is and excellent idea!!

[njbm 2,880]

Collette’s in Dallas is hosting a Zoom party. Kudos to them for responsible behavior.  

[MarniJohn 172]

Actually Collette's is opening Friday in Houston, Austin & Dallas.  New Orleans won't allow it.  

They report that they had over 1500 responses asking if people want them to open:

75% of their customers said they can't wait, 10% said no, 15% not yet.  Their response: the 25% who are not ready they totally understand.

70% of the respondents said no masks necessary.

71% thought taking the staff's temperature would put them at ease

92% are ok with them refusing members with a temperature

The result, they will disinfect the place so people should not have to worry about getting sick at their club.

 

 

[njbm 2,880]

4 hours ago, MarniJohn said:

Actually Collette's is opening Friday in Houston, Austin & Dallas.  New Orleans won't allow it.  

They report that they had over 1500 responses asking if people want them to open:

75% of their customers said they can't wait, 10% said no, 15% not yet.  Their response: the 25% who are not ready they totally understand.

70% of the respondents said no masks necessary.

71% thought taking the staff's temperature would put them at ease

92% are ok with them refusing members with a temperature

The result, they will disinfect the place so people should not have to worry about getting sick at their club.

 

 

Will be a great story for CNN or TMZ. One asymptomatic swinger infects 100 others. 

[Idahocouple6969 294]

1 hour ago, njbm said:

Will be a great story for CNN or TMZ. One asymptomatic swinger infects 100 others. 

I got the email from Collete and I read the process they're going through to keep you "safe". And all the things they will be using disinfectant on..... come on disinfecting the computer after every use? Jesus plez us I'm going to potentially put my dick in you, will we be wearing scuba gear? What about the asymptomatic people? I guess what they say is true: a horny dick has no conscious. ?

[MarniJohn 172]

Trapeze Florida has just announced they will not be opening as planned.  Atlanta will be open Friday night.

[couplers 4,654]

On 5/12/2020 at 5:26 PM, njbm said:

Have sex six feet apart? Kiss and perform oral with a mask?

How long can you hold your breath?

[njbm 2,880]

The people who go, in my opinion, have a problem. If there was adequate treatment or an effective vaccine, bombs away. But masked social distancing during sex is not possible. 

[NWAtlSwing 522]

 

 

We cannot, as a society, cower while a disease is out there that is less of a threat that measles used to be. Our grandparents got up, went out, and made things function.

 

I don't think these people "have a problem". They have a different level of risk tolerance. Calling that a problem is needlessly pejorative. It may not make you comfortable, but that is not a reason to say there is something wrong with the other person.

[njbm 2,880]

We are over 60 years old. I think that we have a different perspective. I have heard that herd immunity would result in 1-2 million deaths. Is that a worthwhile price? They tried herd immunity in Sweden. They need to get to 50-70% infected. They are at 7.5% infected, with more per capita deaths than their neighboring countries. Hopeful for a vaccine. I don’t think that there are any good answers. 

[couplers 4,654]

3 hours ago, NWAtlSwing said:

I don't think these people "have a problem". They have a different level of risk tolerance.

True, and you see that in Third World, poorer countries even before all this.  People in jobs with absolutely no safety protocols, riding the entire family on a motor scooter through chaotic traffic, no pollution or environmental standards.  If you don't know where your next meal is coming from you're not to concerned about the danger in your job or the potential for getting cancer in the long run.

 

We on the 'Board, however, are fortunately not in that position and don't need to take unnecessary risks.  I just don't only like and want sex, I need sex to maintain my sanity and life balance, but realize that the variety is not as wide as it would otherwise be.  Just as some groceries are unavailable.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

On 5/20/2020 at 8:19 AM, MarniJohn said:

75% of their customers said they can't wait, 10% said no, 15% not yet.  Their response: the 25% who are not ready they totally understand.

70% of the respondents said no masks necessary.

71% thought taking the staff's temperature would put them at ease

Menages in Nashville sent out a similar survey, don't know what the results were though.  The difference was the last question was about taking member's temperatures before they were allowed in.

 

Honestly, I find even the idea of masks in a swingers club totally comical. I mean seriously people, masks in the playroom? ?  Maybe you could line it with saran wrap and then have a dental dam for STD protection AND Covid-19 protection. (note to anybody who steals that idea and makes a fortune off of it - you heard it at the Swingers Board first and we expect royalties )

 

Couplers makes an excellent point - we have worked all of our lives, made good decisions, and acted responsibly so we're in a place we don't need to take any unnecessary risks. I don't call that cowering, I call that the payoff for having been smart and responsible.  If it's a case where someone feels like they have to take that risk, then I would say yes, they do have a problem.  Not really an individual problem, but a problem with the relationship if it can't survive without swinging.  Take the virus thing out of the equation, and there are lots of threads here where with nearly unanimous consent that has been told to people - if you HAVE to swing, that's a pretty good sign there's something else you need to be working on.

[padoc 1,703]

We are over 60 as well and we would like the decision to go to a club or the gym or get a haircut to be OUR decision. To be honest, we would not have made the trip to Trapeze this weekend and would likely wait another month or so to do so but we think that those who wish to go to a private club for consenting adults should not be deprived of that choice.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

8 hours ago, njbm said:

We are over 60 years old. I think that we have a different perspective. I have heard that herd immunity would result in 1-2 million deaths. Is that a worthwhile price? They tried herd immunity in Sweden. They need to get to 50-70% infected. They are at 7.5% infected, with more per capita deaths than their neighboring countries. Hopeful for a vaccine. I don’t think that there are any good answers. 

Waiting the 1.5-2 years it will take to get a vax, if that even happens, is not a viable stratagey. People have to work. =.

 

 

 

[njbm 2,880]

Working is important. More people can work from home than everyone thought. Some jobs, like in some in construction, can apply masks and social distancing. Some jobs and places, like restaurants, gyms and nursing homes, are dangerous. But if we sit home on unemployment indefinitely, obviously, the country will fail economically. 
 

But for us, swinging is fun, but optional if it is easy to contract a potentially serious disease. We live in NJ, near NYC, and it is rampant and killing a lot of people. We are not nearly ready to swing. I would say to each his own, but think about you getting it, having a mild case and spreading it. That is what is unfair. All people deserve their health and people’s decisions have an effect on others. 

[NWAtlSwing 522]

Working from home is not an option for us, and yeah, easy for the people working in nice paid government jobs to tell the rest of us to just tough it out. We have to open the nation back up.

 

We are not going to Trap this weekend, but we are also not going to just stay at home forever. As to getting a mild case and spreading it, that is making me being sick a moral thing. People get sick and spread things all the time. I could have the flu and not know it. That is how life works. We all do the best we can.

 

How much liberty are we willing to restrict in the name of making other people have health decisions for themselves?

 

Again, the justification of the lockdown was not to prevent transmission, but to slow it. To demand that now, it is to prevent it, means that the reasons given at first were a lie to the American people.

 

 

[njbm 2,880]

1 hour ago, NWAtlSwing said:

Working from home is not an option for us, and yeah, easy for the people working in nice paid government jobs to tell the rest of us to just tough it out. We have to open the nation back up.

 

We are not going to Trap this weekend, but we are also not going to just stay at home forever. As to getting a mild case and spreading it, that is making me being sick a moral thing. People get sick and spread things all the time. I could have the flu and not know it. That is how life works. We all do the best we can.

 

How much liberty are we willing to restrict in the name of making other people have health decisions for themselves?

 

Again, the justification of the lockdown was not to prevent transmission, but to slow it. To demand that now, it is to prevent it, means that the reasons given at first were a lie to the American people.

 

 

I bet that you would think differently if you could work from home and if your age group was the prime focus of fatal cases. I think we need to think about how to help everyone and not just ditch the old, the poor, those in cities and those who cannot work from home, as well as small business owners losing their businesses. When I hear that people want the freedom to do what they want, I fear for those who want freedom from illness and death, but it is imposed on them by the people who have to have their freedom. I guess there are two schools of thought and the twain will not meet. 

[NWAtlSwing 522]

The goal should not be keep everyone healthy and at low risk at home, which seems to be what you are advocating. Correct me if I am wrong. For 10,000 years, the solution to plague has been to  take those people who are sick and exposed away from everyone else, not lock down everyone.

 

If you want to stay locked down do so. Demanding that others also do so because of your fear is totally unreasonable. People don't want freedom, their freedom is a gift from God, and no one has the right to take it away. Your fear should guide your behavior not empower you to take away the freedom of others who are not sick.

 

And, I would not think so no matter my age. I have been going to work 5-6 days a week in health care, being exposed to people we get from all over the eastern seaboard because it is my job. I serve those needing help with recovery from addiction and mental illness, and I do so proudly.

 

And I am done talking about it. Y'all do your thing, and we will do ours.

[SteelRidge 19]

Everybody should decide what to do based on their own situation and risk tolerance.

 

I also suggest that everyone be considerate of others and if you have symptoms associated with Covid19, you should modify your behavior until that passes.

 

 

[lovefest04 700]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:26 PM, njbm said:

Have sex six feet apart? Kiss and perform oral with a mask?

If size didn't matter before COVID, I think it sure does now!

[njbm 2,880]

Most swingers push the envelope and  live on the edge! That’s why they (we) are swingers.