Covid layoff affecting the lifestyle

[Fitlakecouple 451]

22 minutes ago, TnA83 said:

I refuse the vaccinations for these reasons:

 

1.  I had covid last November and have have better immunity than the vax gives.

2.  The vaccine doesn't work.  Many studies confirm this.

3.  The vaccines are not safe.  725,000 adverse reactions reported to VAERS

4.  I don't have to take it.  The government doesn't have the constitutional power to require it.

Ah yes, the "many people say..." argument. Where have I heard that before?

[njbm 2,870]

1 hour ago, TnA83 said:

I refuse the vaccinations for these reasons:

 

1.  I had covid last November and have have better immunity than the vax gives.

2.  The vaccine doesn't work.  Many studies confirm this.

3.  The vaccines are not safe.  725,000 adverse reactions reported to VAERS

4.  I don't have to take it.  The government doesn't have the constitutional power to require it.

1. Incorrect. Your immunity from an infection expires quickly. Those who were infected and vaccinated have the most robust immunity. 
2. The vaccine is effective. The highest number of cases are in the states with the lowest vaccination rates. I don’t think that this is a coincidence. 
3. The adverse complaints are self-reported. They may be untrue, unrelated to the vaccine or minor. We know hundreds of people. Many suffered from covid, we know no one who suffered from the vaccine. 
4. You don’t have to get vaccinated. But you may not be allowed to travel, dine out, have federal or medical employment, etc. There is no right to infect other people. 
Good luck and stay well! 

Edited October 9, 2021 by njbm

[MrMrsswinger 202]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:08 AM, lovtosuc said:

I believe that if you are unvaccinated, you should pay more for insurance/coverage, why should the people that did their part pay for the people who didn't. I think hospitals should maintain open beds for the emergencies people suffer and that have been vaccinated, and not tie up all the beds in ICU's with the unvaccinated. I don't want to work around people that are unvaccinated, shouldn't be forced too.  I applaud companies that require vaccines for employment, your choice in the end. We can't change stupid, so let's move on without them

 

I totally agree. I also believe those who make bad lifestyle decisions should pay more - swingers, smokers, overweight people (your weight should be tracked weekly via smart watch and submitted to a federal agency for tracking), people who eat red meat, people who don't complete the government's recommended amount of fitness activities each week (your activity should be monitored via smart watch and submitted to a federal entity for verification), people who drive (the most dangerous way to travel), people who don't sleep 8 hours a night (also tracked via smart watch), people who don't eat the recommended amount of vegetables each day, people who eat sugar....

 

Soon the IRS will be given your bank account information (all bank accounts with more than $600 of annual activity). This will be good because they can monitor where you spend your money and what you buy. There is no way I should be required to subsidize those who eat sugar and fatty foods. The federal government needs to mandate what people eat. I think a national food card should be issued and the federal government can add value to it monthly. With significantly higher taxes, people will have less disposable income. Then with limitations on what the card can purchase, the federal government can control our health. This can coincide with the federal government controlling healthcare via Medicare for all. They can refuse to provide treatment for any ailments that are a result from bad choices. 

 

This is the utopia that I dream of.

 

[TricianMike 772]

We made a decision once we were vaccinated not to be with anyone who wasn’t vaccinated. Our choice! We are educated and we don’t deny that vaccines work and don’t deny that we can still get and pass on the virus to others. We have friends that had breakthrough cases, none ended up in the hospital. We know of many unvaccinated people who have been hospitalized and some who have died. 
We recently met with people, strangers, who we invited to play and they had no problem showing us their vaccination cards. We are smart enough to know that cards can be fake and that vaccination is a guarantee to be virus free. It was our decision to go by our rule and their choice to go along with our wishes. 

[J&Wu 408]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:04 PM, TnA83 said:

I refuse the vaccinations for these reasons:

 

 

3.  The vaccines are not safe.  725,000 adverse reactions reported to VAERS

.

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System includes all events to be reviewed at a later date for significance. Someone dying in a vehicle crash a week after vaccination might be included in the 725,000 adverse events for eventual analysis.

[TnA83 309]

8 hours ago, J&Wu said:

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System includes all events to be reviewed at a later date for significance. Someone dying in a vehicle crash a week after vaccination might be included in the 725,000 adverse events for eventual analysis.

In a neighboring county there was a murder suicide in which the cadavers tested positive.  Yep, they were included in the 700,000 dead.

 

Three kinds of lies:  Little white lies, Goddam lies and statistics.

 

We all choose which lies to believe.

[NC_Seniors 518]

2 hours ago, TnA83 said:

In a neighboring county there was a murder suicide in which the cadavers tested positive.  Yep, they were included in the 700,000 dead.

Please provide a reliable source for this assertion …

[lovefest04 699]

12 minutes ago, NC_Seniors said:

Please provide a reliable source for this assertion …

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/

 

Go here and scroll down to 5th Peer Reviewed manuscript. Read it for logic and background on how statistics are being changed and manipulated.

 

https://www.energetichealthinstitute.org/covid-19-updates/

 

John Hopkins DR, was recently quoted saying that everyone has it wrong. Natural immunity is 27 times more robust than vaccines AND that natural immunity holds up better to variants of the disease than vaccines. He claims 15 other studies support that assertion.

 

NIH agrees: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

STOP watching news. It's all biased whether it's FOX or MSNBC. If you watch both on a given issue, you'll find they basically say the same thing, just with a different conclusion based on their overall audience. So just STOP and use the wonderful internet to source and verify things.

 

NC_Seniors: It's not anyone's job to provide sources. Do the work.

 

Finally: The Vaccine was and is not expected to stop the transmission of the virus. It NEVER was. Those promoting it wanted us all the believe that so they could sell MORE vaccines. Studies now show that vaccinated individuals have higher viral load of the delta and are actually 'super spreaders' (my words) when compared to non-vaccinated. Also, vaccinated tend to have less symptoms while having a higher viral load so will go unnoticed more so than unvacinated.

 

What we are seeing is that vaccinated people have less serious symptoms, that's it. And I suppose that is sorta true. BUT, people under the age of 40 never really had any serious symptoms. Look at the death rates by age and you'll see that no one under the age of 40 needs a vaccine. So, how does a pharmaceutical company sell more? They tell us all that un-vaccinated people of all ages are a threat to everyone.

 

Oh, no you say, pharmaceutical companies are wonderful organizations that save lives with their scientific advancements. BS. They sell drugs by convincing humans that the human body is weak and needs their stuff to be protected from whatever is out there.

 

Did you also know that pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd or 4th leading cause of death in America WHEN PROPERLY PRESCRIBED AND PROPERLY TAKEN.

 

https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25355584/

 

Let me ask everyone one question. Are people truly healthy in America that are taking drugs to combat disease or are they simply not dead?

 

Being on a blood thinner or cholesterol lowing drug for years isn't health, it just not death. Health is not needing the drug.

 

I believe in the bodies innate ability to be healthy. I do not use western medicine to keep me alive and fight 'chronic' disease and have no need for vaccines. I will not pay more for the shitty healthcare I don't use now, 59, no health problems, haven't used insurance for anything since I was in my 20's and cut myself remodeling a home, and yet I now pay $800+ a month x 2 for a very basic plan because of everyone that practice poor dietary choices, don't exercise, drinks etc etc.

[NC_Seniors 518]

8 hours ago, lovefest04 said:

.NC_Seniors: It's not anyone's job to provide sources. Do the work.

Well actually … it *IS* your job to name your source if you’re making an assertion.  It’s not anyone else’s job to go hunting for the evidence of something that someone else claims to be true.  The burden of proof is always on the prosecution.

[njbm 2,870]

2 hours ago, NC_Seniors said:

Well actually … it *IS* your job to name your source if you’re making an assertion.  It’s not anyone else’s job to go hunting for the evidence of something that someone else claims to be true.  The burden of proof is always on the prosecution.

Correct. I have a Juris Doctor degree, 37 year legal career. 

[njbm 2,870]

If lovefest gets covid, will he get monoclonal antibodies? Would he take the upcoming Merck anti-viral if it is approved?

 

If you get a STD from swinging, will you take medication to fight it?

[TnA83 309]

11 hours ago, njbm said:

If lovefest gets covid, will he get monoclonal antibodies? Would he take the upcoming Merck anti-viral if it is approved?

 

If you get a STD from swinging, will you take medication to fight it?

So many of you would deny a swinger the medicine to cure a STD simply because they are a swinger?

[njbm 2,870]

5 minutes ago, TnA83 said:

So many of you would deny a swinger the medicine to cure a STD simply because they are a swinger?

I asked if he would take take the medicines, since he will not take the vaccine. 

i am not suggesting that any medicine be withheld to anyone. 

Tx gubernatorial candidate West refused the vaccine, but accepted monoclonal antibody treatment. I don’t understand why, except that he knew he was in trouble. 
 

My question is if you will not take the vaccine, will you use other curative medicines, some equally new?

Edited October 12, 2021 by njbm

[J&Wu 408]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:21 AM, TnA83 said:

In a neighboring county there was a murder suicide in which the cadavers tested positive.  Yep, they were included in the 700,000 dead.

 

Three kinds of lies:  Little white lies, Goddam lies and statistics.

 

We all choose which lies to believe.

VAERS is a raw data gathering system related to vaccines not deaths related to COVID infection. Both systems of data collection are subject to inexperienced and even intentional human input error that shakes out on later analysis.

Below is a quote from vaers.hhs.gov

 

Evaluating VAERS Data

When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.

VAERS Data Limitations

Millions of vaccines are given each year to children less than 1 year old in the United States, usually between 2 and 6 months of age. At this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical adverse events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Some infants will experience these medical events shortly after a vaccination by coincidence.

These coincidences make it difficult to know whether a particular adverse event resulted from a medical condition or from a vaccination. Therefore, vaccine providers are encouraged to report all adverse events following vaccination, whether or not they believe the vaccination was the cause.

[lovefest04 699]

Well, good evening.

 

As lawyers, you must support my constitutional if not human right to freedom, free speech, the right to assemble etc etc.....thank you. because without that, what does America and democracy stand for?

 

njbm:

 

My point about references was in response to your assertions which did not include references. I come from a long line of attorneys and learned long ago the skill of debate. When it comes to COVID I try my best to provide references that are not tweets, tiktok's or main stream media reports. I look deeper. And I share.

 

To answer your question. Pharmaceuticals are my last choice when treating disease. So far it's served me well. Including after a 10 day trip during the last week of February 2020 in Manhattan at an oncology convention for Dr's where I met 100's of folks, rode the subways, attended two plays, ate in restaurants and generally had very close contact with lots of folks, only to return to the west coast a few days before they shut down NY. I can't imagine that I didn't come into contact with Sars.

 

All that said, I believe that drugs have a place in our society. I think those over the age of 65 with health challenges should strongly consider the vaccine. But no one should be forced or coerced to inject a drug into their body. And there is simply no evidence that supports healthy children being injected with the vaccine. None.

 

The argument comes down to this. Can I be required to take an experimental vaccine? I think not. And especially if the rational is the flawed concept that we all have to do our duty to protect those around us. The only argument I can think of that holds any weight is if un-vaccinated people directly caused harm to others, thus the "doing our duty." However, the science is telling us that just isn't the case. Vaccinated people carry it, spread it and get sick from it as well. Blaming the spread on un-vaccinated folks is simply wrong and only benefits those profiting from the sale of all those little vials.

 

The vaccines never promised, nor were they designed to kill the virus, only to help people NOT die from it. If you look back at the information from the CDC and alike, back 10 months or more ago, they were telling us that COVID (actually it's Sars not COVID) would become endemic as the flu or cold has. So, step right up nd get your COVID booster each year with your flu shot...... And if you understand mutations, having a vaccine that only focuses on one part of the virus and does not intend to kill it, actually helps it mutate. It makes it worse.

 

12 hours ago, njbm said:

My question is if you will not take the vaccine, will you use other curative medicines, some equally new?

Unfortunately, this vaccine isn't really that new, it's just a version of years of failed mRNA research. But have at it. I do not pretend to tell anyone else how to take care of their health. And I'd like everyone not to tell me how to take care of mine. And while I'm at it, I refuse to accept mandates, job loss or the inability to fly due to all the fear that's been created.

 

Now with that said I have a complex tax return to complete or old uncle SAM is gonna get mad at me.

 

Have a wonderful evening. I honestly mean that.

[njbm 2,870]

Lovefest04, if you contract Sars/covid 19 and it is progressing to hospitalization and lung issues, would you take monoclonal antibody treatment? Just curious as to how far you would take your anti-medicine approach. 
 

If you contract an STD from sex and it could be treated with medicine, would you take it?

 

I asked this of you in a previous post, but if you don’t want to answer it, that is fine. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by njbm

[NC_Seniors 518]

1 hour ago, lovefest04 said:

I refuse to accept mandates, job loss or the inability to fly due to all the fear that's been created.

If you get fired or told you can’t fly, you can refuse to accept it all you want … but you’ll still be out of a job and on the “no fly” list.  It really won’t be your choice at that point!

[lovefest04 699]

11 hours ago, njbm said:

Lovefest04, if you contract Sars/covid 19 and it is progressing to hospitalization and lung issues, would you take monoclonal antibody treatment? Just curious as to how far you would take your anti-medicine approach. 
 

If you contract an STD from sex and it could be treated with medicine, would you take it?

 

I asked this of you in a previous post, but if you don’t want to answer it, that is fine. 

I never said I was anti-medicine. In the off chance that I end up in a hospital (the odds are in my favor that I will survive COVID) I would take medicine. Remember as of last night 98.4% of all Americans that tested positive survivied. Of those that assed away, 81% or over are over the age of 65 WITH 2 or more comorbidities.

 

That's not me nor is it most of American under the age of 50. So, Until I am sick, I choose to keep myself healthy without vaccines and I hope that as a free person I am allowed that right.

 

Luvtosuc:

1 hour ago, lovtosuc said:

mandates, the solution

Mandates are a solution looking for a problem. The vaccine will not stop the spread of this virus. READ the data I added to a previous post. Oh, i just realized. Luvtosuc must own a lot of Pfizer stock....now it makes sense.

 

You are all missing my point so I apologize for not making it more clear. The risk of death for people under the age of 65 is very low, as a percentage of cases, in fact not selecting out comorbidity, so all cases, have a recovery rate of 99.623% based on data from February 21. So, before the medical community had any other treatment options, any real understanding of the disease. . I choose to take that risk.

 

Now Lovtosuc, huddled in the corner in fear of everything including his own shadow, will tell me that by my refusal to be vaccinated, I am a stupid person who is responsible for the spread of the disease. That is just not true.

 

https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

 

Here's the real problem:

Mass vaccination with a “leaky” vaccine– that does not completely neutralize the infection– applies “selective pressure” on the virus which promotes the emergence of variants. Immunologists have known this for a long time, in fact, some call it “Virology 101”. Canadian Vaccinologist Dr. Byram Bridle explained this in a recent interview. Here’s what he said:

“We have to look no further than … the emergence of antibiotic resistance … The principle is this: If you have a biological entity that is prone to mutation — and the SARS-CoV-2, like all coronaviruses is prone to mutation — and you apply narrowly focused selective pressure that is nonlethal, and you do this over a long period of time, this is the recipe for driving the emergence of novel variants.

This is exactly what we’re doing. Our vaccines are focused on a single (spike) protein of the virus, so the virus only has to alter one protein, and the vaccines don’t come close to providing sterilizing immunity.”

Back to my point in a previous post. Think Antibiotic resistance in hospital settings. Ask any Dr., nurse, etc about that. They will all tell you that hospitals struggle with infections due to antibiotic resistance, which has been caused by the same narrowly focused strategy. Lead by Merck by the way.

I said before, that none of these posts will change the minds of anyone. I do enjoy the banter back and forth. I hope people will read the data (see previous post) and stop pointing fingers at each other. I am not the problem here. I did not create this virus, I do not spread this virus. I am not afraid of this virus.

Why are we all so willing to turn on each other in the face of challenges? Why so much us vs them finger pointing? Why the need to inflict ones belief's upon others?

Oh and for those that are truly concerned about me, no I didn't get the tax return completed last night so off I go. Oh and I don't do flu shots either, so bring it on.

With love and respect.

[njbm 2,870]

Lovefest04, I get the feeling that you are a young and healthy person. Your anti-Western medicine approach works for your age and health condition.

 

Unfortunately, many people are older than you, have pre-existing conditions, are  immunocompromised, etc.  For those people, the covid vaccine is a life saver. So is monoclonal antibody treatment. If people with an advanced age and or pre-existing conditions followed your lead,  there would be millions more dead Americans. 

[lovefest04 699]

15 minutes ago, njbm said:

Lovefest04, I get the feeling that you are a young and healthy person. Your anti-Western medicine approach works for your age and health condition.

 

Unfortunately, many people are older than you, have pre-existing conditions, are  immunocompromised, etc.  For those people, the covid vaccine is a life saver. So is monoclonal antibody treatment. If people with an advanced age and or pre-existing conditions followed your lead,  there would be millions more dead Americans. 

Holy crap. I specifically said people with concerns of their own health should have the vaccine available to them. Go for it.

 

But no one should be able to make me take it, ie mandates.

 

I do feel young, but I'm actually 59.

 

Yes, yes, I completed the tax return.

[njbm 2,870]

Well then maybe we agree on a lot. I think mandates are necessary for medical workers, teachers, airline workers and public facing workers. I think that other mandates arose because of low uptake of the vaccine. Unfortunately, we need a certain amount of people injected or infected to reach a low point in the pandemic. It appears to me that the injected fare better than the infected overall. It’s a collective effort to reach the end through vaccination. About a third of the country does not want to participate. Portugal has 85% vaccinated and an open, maskless society. The US doesn’t. You make your choices. 

[MrMrsswinger 202]

24 minutes ago, njbm said:

It’s a collective effort to reach the end through vaccination. About a third of the country does not want to participate. Portugal has 85% vaccinated and an open, maskless society. The US doesn’t. You make your choices. 

This statement is somewhat misleading. I live in a state where we are maskless. I haven't worn a mask in months. Yes, there are people who catch Delta but nobody is living in fear of the virus, except the politicians who fear losing the unbelievable power they have grabbed because of it.

 

I have a buddy in California (Sacramento). He went to an Eagles concert last night. 30-40,000 people (?) There were mask requirements and you had to show your "vax card" to get in. The videos my buddy sent from various areas in the venue showed 25% max wearing masks. The "vax card" requirement was a joke as they were handing out fake ones outside the concert. 

 

Only the politicians care at this point and they keep the fear campaign going. People are sick of the endless nonsense. In California you had San Francisco Mayor London Breed demanding everyone wear a mask indoors regardless of vaccination status. Listen or get arrested (I know many San Francisco PD, they were given the directive). Yet she got filmed dancing indoors at a club without a mask. Her statement was that "I got up and started dancing because I was feeling the spirit and I wasn’t thinking about a mask. I was thinking about having a good time" (seriously, google it). Ramifications? She quickly changed her indoor mandate for the vaccinated. It is this hypocrisy that people are sick and tired of. 

 

As others have said, when you look at the stats, those who are dying have other issues and/or are senior citizens. Children rarely get the virus and basically never die from it yet you have to vaccine them. Why? To protect the vaccinated teacher?? 

 

The endless pushing of the vaccine will create an even more divided America. With data showing the vaccine effectiveness wanes over time, will there be a mandate for boosters in perpetuity? At what point do people conclude that we're going to be living with Covid forever?

 

[discreetplay 235]

1 hour ago, MrMrsswinger said:

I have a buddy in California (Sacramento). He went to an Eagles concert last night. 30-40,000 people (?) There were mask requirements and you had to show your "vax card" to get in. The videos my buddy sent from various areas in the venue showed 25% max wearing masks. The "vax card" requirement was a joke as they were handing out fake ones outside the concert. 

 

 

 

I was at that concert. It was in San Francisco at the Warriors stadium (Chase). Your buddy was correct, for all of San Francisco's restrictions, no one is following them, at least for large venues. Many restaurants are quite strict about masks so you just have to hold a drink to leave it off (or "feel the spirit" I guess).  I always laugh when people are standing at the bar ordering a drink...mask required. Sit down at a table and order a drink...no mask required. I missed the study that showed Covid floats 6+ feet off the ground so you're safe sitting without a mask. 

 

We're both half vaccinated (was planning a trip to Hawaii and they required it...then the trip was canceled so we didn't bother with the second shot). We both had Covid. So per some studies we're good (one shot with a recovery). Per the politicians we're a danger. Who knows. 

 

We won't be asking for vaccine cards as we meet other couples. To each their own.

[njbm 2,870]

Apparently, this country is unable to unite in a crisis. If we don’t hang together, we’ll hang separately. But apparently, everyone without any medical training has done their own research and it differs from the conclusions of the world’s greatest experts. 
 

I prefer to hang out with vaccinated people. I live in a state with a high vaccination rate and a low covid rate. Not a coincidence. 
 

 

[lovefest04 699]

 

Lovtosuc - thank you for your deeply considered, reasoned, referenced and thought out contributions to this thread. Truly moving the conversation forward one word at a time.

 

So how do we explain Israel?

 

https://swprs.org/israel-highest-infection-rate-in-the-world/

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

[njbm 2,870]

32 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

 

Lovtosuc - thank you for your deeply considered, reasoned, referenced and thought out contributions to this thread. Truly moving the conversation forward one word at a time.

 

So how do we explain Israel?

 

https://swprs.org/israel-highest-infection-rate-in-the-world/

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Swiss Policy Research is a conspiracy theory site that has stated that Qanon is a psyops project of the FBI. Please don’t promote Facebook-level disinformation as factual. It totally undermines what you say. I do not believe one word in that article. 
 

The NPR article that you quoted is very supportive of vaccines. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by njbm

[lovefest04 699]

8 minutes ago, njbm said:

Swiss Policy Research is a conspiracy theory site

Oh, okay, thanks you.  I'll need to look a bit deeper about that. It's so hard now to know what's real. I long for the days of Walter Cronkite and only 4 channels of TV.

 

10 minutes ago, njbm said:

The NPR article that you quoted is very supportive of vaccines. 

NPR would never be unsupportive of vaccines, my point is that Israel is one of the most vaccinated populations on the plant. Also, considered one of the best sources of data and yet they are having spread, so why do we all think vaccines are the answer.

 

I mean how many shots will everyone have to take. It feels like we are all on a single track that leads to know where.

[njbm 2,870]

The vaccines are not sterilizing. They are not perfect. We may have to take boosters. But they are the difference between 700,000 dead and millions dead. 

If people do not want to take them, don’t. It’s obvious that many people in the US are stridently against them. Maybe they will become opposed to measles, mumps and polio shots and refamiliarize themselves with those diseases. I don’t get it, but apparently many Americans do. 

[njbm 2,870]

Two thirds of the Israeli population got Pfizer boosters since July. Covid cases among them plummeted. Read it in today’s Daily Beast. 

[NC_Seniors 518]

57 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

It feels like we are all on a single track that leads to know where.

“nowhere” …

[NC_Seniors 518]

Just wondering … did all of those people who say they want to do their own research on the COVID-19 vaccines *also* do their own research on ibuprofen when it hit the market in 1974?  How about statin drugs (1987)? Truvia sweetener (2008)?  They’re all approved as safe for humans by the FDA.  So if you DIDN’T do research into any of these, why not … and why treat this vaccine any differently?

[NC_Seniors 518]

And saw this on Facebook … couldn’t resist!   😉

 

People take their kids on a metal tube that goes 500 miles per hour at 36,000 feet without doing their “own research"
about who made the plane, who last serviced it, or even reading about the physics of air travel. They just trust that "Big
Airline" knows what it’s doing.

[lovefest04 699]

NC_

 

Totally. But no one forced, mandated or coerced them to get on the plane. They did so by their own choosing and under their own free will. Why is an injection any different.

 

By the way, Pfizer shot is NOT FDA approved, at least not the one they are using. If they switch to Comarity (?) then they lose their Emergency Use Authorization and legal protection from the liability associated with side effects. so, they are still using the non-approved version of the drug under the EUA.

 

I do check the safety of most of the things I put in my body.

 

My wife and I have been involved with the food industry for years and years. Do you know that i can put into a bottle anything i want as long as it's not banned and sell it. There is no organization checking to make sure that what I sell isn't hurting people. People need to be much more vigilant, but as you mention, they are not. No wonder American are so sick.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:38 PM, NC_Seniors said:

Just wondering … did all of those people who say they want to do their own research on the COVID-19 vaccines *also* do their own research on ibuprofen when it hit the market in 1974?  How about statin drugs (1987)? Truvia sweetener (2008)?  They’re all approved as safe for humans by the FDA.  So if you DIDN’T do research into any of these, why not … and why treat this vaccine any differently?

The attempt to draw an equivalence between ibuprofen and the various forms of the COVID-19 vaccines is entirely false.

 

We can begin with the fact that ibuprofen went through the normal FDA approval process that lasted many years before it was approved for over-the-counter administration. And, for years before that, ibuprofen had been administered to patients by Medical Doctors on a prescription basis and its potential side-effects were well-known and understood. Moreover, ibuprofen is part of a larger family of non-steroidal anti-inflammatories that have been studied for decades.

 

We have both taken the vaccine and are glad to have done so. We are waiting for the approval of the so-called "booster" and will be happy to take that, too.

 

However, we completely understand why some people still remain skeptical about the vaccines and have serious concerns about them. We know for a fact, for instance, the FDA approval process for the vaccines has been short-circuited and politicized--to the point that several, high-ranking FDA scientists have resigned in protest over these irregularities. Nobody at the FDA resigned in protest when ibuprofen was approved, right?

 

 

 

 

[MrMrsswinger 202]

I just read the story of Colin Powell dying from Covid complications. The story noted he was 84 and fully vaccinated.

 

When will we read a story about someone who had Covid, recovered, was re-infected and died? It must be prevalent because those who have recovered from Covid are mandated to get vaccinated anyway. Why does the media hide these stories from us?

[NC_Seniors 518]

1 hour ago, MrMrsswinger said:

I just read the story of Colin Powell dying from Covid complications. The story noted he was 84 and fully vaccinated.

 

When will we read a story about someone who had Covid, recovered, was re-infected and died? It must be prevalent because those who have recovered from Covid are mandated to get vaccinated anyway. Why does the media hide these stories from us?

True, he was 84 and fully vaccinated.  But he also suffered from “multiple myeloma, a cancer of plasma cells that suppresses the body’s immune response.” (Source CNN). That’s an important fact here.

[lovefest04 699]

1 hour ago, NC_Seniors said:

that suppresses the body’s immune response

And there we have the point. Vaccines don't kill the virus, they only trigger an immune response. A health body, with a well functioning immune system does the SAME thing. It triggers an immune response when a 'foreign' or 'harmful' substance is detected. Take care of your immune system and your body will take care of you.

 

Garbage in, disease is the result. It's kinda that simple for 80% of the population. The other 20% do have other issues so I'm not pointing fingers, just recognizing that most illness is not a result of something outside of us, but is a result of our own poor maintenance.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

6 hours ago, lovtosuc said:

classic misuse of the facts, maybe you should explain why the 2 scientists left the FDA, it certainly wasn't because they thought the vaccines weren't safe

 

next you're going to tell us the election results were the "big lie"

Lol...

 

The facts?

 

The FDA's top two scientists--the very people in charge of approving or disapproving the vaccine and its uses--grew so disgusted over the politicization of the FDA's approval process they resigned in protest.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-top-vaccine-officials-resign-from-fda-amid-political-pressure-from-biden-administration/ar-AANX9jN

 

Gee. It seems the FDA's two top scientists believe that science should guide the FDA's decisions, not political calculations from the White House, or subjective opinions from unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats from outside government agencies.

 

The resignation of the FDA's two top scientists is enough to concern anyone who possesses a shred of objectivity and independent thought. And to suggest no legitimate controversy exists regarding the vaccine requires the willful denial of reality.

Edited October 18, 2021 by AndrewandAnn

[AndrewandAnn 360]

4 hours ago, lovefest04 said:

And there we have the point. Vaccines don't kill the virus, they only trigger an immune response. A health body, with a well functioning immune system does the SAME thing. It triggers an immune response when a 'foreign' or 'harmful' substance is detected. Take care of your immune system and your body will take care of you.

 

Garbage in, disease is the result. It's kinda that simple for 80% of the population. The other 20% do have other issues so I'm not pointing fingers, just recognizing that most illness is not a result of something outside of us, but is a result of our own poor maintenance.

You make an excellent point.

 

What I find unconscionable is that neither the CDC, NIH, or FDA, has ever said one word about the importance of overall health and the role it plays in the fight against COVID-19. Not one word has been said about the importance of regular exercise, losing weight, eating healthy, getting a healthy amount of sunshine, and so on. 

 

The CDC knows, for instance, the people who succumb to COVID-19 are typically obese, elderly, live sedentary lifestyles, are lacking vitamin D, and have one or more co-morbidities (i.e., diabetes, heart disease, etc.)

 

One cannot change one's age. But, the rest of it is largely in control of the patient. The vaccine is just ONE arrow in the quiver.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

20 hours ago, MrMrsswinger said:

I just read the story of Colin Powell dying from Covid complications. The story noted he was 84 and fully vaccinated.

 

 

Interesting point: What does "fully vaccinated" even mean? What specific form of the vaccine did he take--Pfizer, Moderna or JnJ? Did he receive the so-called "booster" shot? 

 

Also, we should be careful to note there is a difference between dying with COVID-19 and dying from COVID-19, a point that is rarely discussed in the media or explained by anyone at the NIH or CDC.

 

General Powell was both elderly and in a declining state of health before he contracted COVID-19. He was 84 years-old, an age well beyond the normal life expectancy for adult male living in the US (76.2 years according to the CDC), and suffering from at least two serious diseases including Parkinson's, an incurable, progressive disease that affects the nervous system, and Multiply Myeloma, a type of low-grade cancer of the blood that impairs the body's immune system. Only a medical examiner would know with certainty what was General Powell's actual cause of death. COVID-19 may have only played little role in his death, or it may have been the primary culprit? We cannot take the message from his family as a medical certainty.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by AndrewandAnn

[MrMrsswinger 202]

3 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

Only a medical examiner would know with certainty what was General Powell's actual cause of death. COVID-19 may have only played little role in his death, or it may have been the primary culprit? We cannot take the message from his family as a medical certainty.

 

 

Good luck finding a medical examiner who is willing to report the truth. I have friends in medical billing in three different areas of the country (San Francisco, Dallas and Portland). You won't believe how "Covid deaths" are reported. Death from Covid is a lucrative business vs death with Covid. We'll never know the real numbers because politics took over during the 2020 election and have gotten worse.

 

The latest data I saw was unvaccinated people under 50 have a 99.997% change of survival. Make sure you get vaccinated!

[enhancer 1,585]

On 10/18/2021 at 1:49 PM, AndrewandAnn said:

You make an excellent point.

 

What I find unconscionable is that neither the CDC, NIH, or FDA, has ever said one word about the importance of overall health and the role it plays in the fight against COVID-19. Not one word has been said about the importance of regular exercise, losing weight, eating healthy, getting a healthy amount of sunshine, and so on. 

 

The CDC knows, for instance, the people who succumb to COVID-19 are typically obese, elderly, live sedentary lifestyles, are lacking vitamin D, and have one or more co-morbidities (i.e., diabetes, heart disease, etc.)

 

One cannot change one's age. But, the rest of it is largely in control of the patient. The vaccine is just ONE arrow in the quiver.

Regardless of how I feel about the vaccine you make a great point here about nothing is being said about the importance of regular exercise, losing weight, eating healthy and so on!  There is no better time then right now for those things to be pushed.  I have not seen any shortage of line ups at fast food drive thru’s or delivery of take out food.  People seem to use the excuse of not being able to go to gym to not exercise.  Meanwhile the people around me just seem to keep getting bigger and less healthy. It is up to everyone to take some accountability for their own personal health.  There is no magic shoot or needle that is going to protect people from themselves.

[njbm 2,870]

The elderly are elderly. They can’t help it. Hopefully, we all get there.
 

Some people are born with diabetes or other diseases that pre-dispose them to covid. Some people like Gen. Powell have multiple myeloma and Parkinson’s disease. He could not help it.  He didn’t want those diseases. 
 

As a lifelong yo yo dieter, I can tell you it is not easy to lose weight and keep it off.  I know few people who can do so for any length of time. Genetics, habits, psychological issues conspire to undermine dieting. To quit smoking isn’t easy, either. 
 

I try not to judge people for shortcomings that are difficult to control. Many people have diseases they wish they did not have. Many heavy people struggle with diets, bariatric surgery, etc. , but still are overweight. They are not necessarily hanging out at fast food and pizza joints. If you are young, in shape and healthy, do have some sympathy and compassion. 

[AndrewandAnn 360]

We all can agree with having compassion for people who suffer from chronic obesity, diabetes, or other problems--obviously, this includes anyone born with a disease(s). However, there is a difference between having compassion for someone and excusing them from taking personal responsibility for their own health.

 

Thus far, COVID-19 has been listed as the cause of death, or contributing to the death, of more than 720,000 people in the US. Following are some stats to put that number in perspective. Note most of this information and stats were taken straight from the CDC:

 

Heart disease, the number one cause of death in the US, kills approximately 660,000 people every year. What causes heart disease? Often, heart disease is the result of poor diet, a sedentary lifestyle, smoking, and other factors mostly in control of the patient.

 

Cancer, the number two cause of death in the US, kills approximately 600,000 people every year. Lung cancer is by far the most common form. What causes lung cancer? Eighty percent of all lung cancers are due to smoking.

 

Obesity is the most prevalent, and fasting growing, disease in the US. According to the CDC, 42.4% of all adults in the US are obese. From 2000 through 2018, the percentage of adults who are obese increased by nearly 40%. What causes obesity? The cause is primarily behavioral. Poor diet and lack of exercise are the most common behavioral factors.

 

Worse, we have a tidal wave of childhood obesity headed our way. Nearly 20% of all children are obese. Childhood obesity was never a problem in the either the distant or recent past and is entirely a modern phenomenon. 

 

While some people are inclined to blame obesity on genes, we know genetics play little role. How do we know? Adult obesity in the US grew by 40% in less than two decades. The human genetic makeup does not evolve that quickly. "Genetic changes in human populations occur too slowly to be responsible for the obesity epidemic", according to the CDC.

 

The truth is now, and has always been, our overall health is largely in control of our individual choices.

 

 

[DocPhotog 13]

My father died of pancreatic cancer. My grandfather died of colon cancer. My best friend died - in shape and in his 40's - of a heart attack, while playing tennis. I could go on with other examples, but none of these were in their control or their individual choice.

 

What's missing from your Covid stats is the number of deaths due to some jackwad who refused to wear a mask.

 

Covid is preventable.

[njbm 2,870]

5 hours ago, DocPhotog said:

My father died of pancreatic cancer. My grandfather died of colon cancer. My best friend died - in shape and in his 40's - of a heart attack, while playing tennis. I could go on with other examples, but none of these were in their control or their individual choice.

 

What's missing from your Covid stats is the number of deaths due to some jackwad who refused to wear a mask.

 

Covid is preventable.

The masks and vaccines are under people’s control. Their advancing age, pre-existing diseases are not necessarily. 

[DocPhotog 13]

The insidiousness of this virus is that asymptomatic people can transmit it. So while one may think that not wearing a mask is their own personal choice or freedom, they are actually THE problem - passing on the virus without even knowing it. And if you catch Covid bc of the individual freedom crowd, or unwittingly pass it on to someone who is elderly or immunocompromised, that was not under your or their control.

 

I realize everyone is a youtube expert these days, and I'm no different. But for me it boils down to one simple, indisputable fact:

 

Viruses don't move. People move them.

[lovefest04 699]

41 minutes ago, DocPhotog said:

The insidiousness of this virus is that asymptomatic people can transmit it.

I have never seen data that specifically supports this statement. Please send links if you have them. 

 

I have seen the excessive cycle counts for the PCR tests made it possible for a person that had viral particles that were dead or too low to infect others to be detected. They became a case, but because they weren't sick, they were classified as 'asymptomatic spreaders'.

 

Does anyone remember when this illogical line of thinking came into being. Dr Deborah Brix just made a passing comment about how that should be looked into. And all of a sudden you have asymptomatic spreaders. Never any serious research or study, just the comment and everyone is told that everyone else is a 'killer'. It doesn't make sense. So, I respectfully disagree with your assessment DocPhotog.

 

10 hours ago, AndrewandAnn said:

Thus far, COVID-19 has been listed as the cause of death, or contributing to the death, of more than 720,000 people in the US.

I just saw on the CDC website that as of October 18, 2021 there were 586,xxx deaths due to COVID, not 720,000.   https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

 

But if you're going to create fear, not you Andrew, others, I get that it's better to use the higher number which comes from non-CDC sources like https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

 

Regardless, non of this gives our government the right to mandate vaccines for the population. And especially with those under the age of 50. There is just no evidence to support that. Plus, as we now know, vaccinated people still get COVID and can shed the virus, so shooting up all this people isn't going to save the old folks.

 

 

1 hour ago, njbm said:

My father died of pancreatic cancer. My grandfather died of colon cancer.

I'm sorry to hear this. My aunt died of colon cancer. It's a difficult death.

1 hour ago, njbm said:

none of these were in their control or their individual choice.

What if it was within our control the majority of the time.

 

In other words, what if cancer isn't something we get, it's something we create.

 

What if everyone decided that they were in control and made different choices about how they care for their bodies?

 

Some estimates suggest 80% of chronic disease, 80% of cancers and 80% of heart disease could be eliminated.

 

Clearly the current 'system' isn't helping to eliminate disease. Although I agree it can keep people alive longer, not living but alive.

[TricianMike 772]

13 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

just saw on the CDC website that as of October 18, 2021 there were 586,xxx deaths due to COVID, not 720,000.   https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Have you checked your link? 

[DocPhotog 13]

27 minutes ago, lovefest04 said:

I have never seen data that specifically supports this statement. Please send links if you have them. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-transmission.html

 

I find it odd that you don't believe that asymptomatic people can spread the disease, but you completely believe that vaccinated people can get it and spread it. 

 

The US has a VERY  long history of mandating vaccines, starting with small pox in 1809. The legality of that mandate was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1905.

 

It's THE reason you don't see cases of small pox, polio, tetanus, rubella, measles, pertussis, and on down the line. 

 

I thank God every day that Youtube wasn't invented then.