Attitudes in Literature about Sex

[adamgunn 1,460]

“Concerning sex, our primary cultural assumption is that monogamy is the only acceptable pattern. A writer is permitted to write endlessly about rape, incest, adultery, and major perversion … provided he suggests that all of these things are always sinful or at least a social mistake — and must be paid for, either publicly or in remorse. (The thing the censors had against Lady Chatterley and her lover were not their rather tedious monosyllables, but the fact that they liked adultery and got away with it – and lived happily ever after.)”

 

This quote is from Robert A. Heinlein in 1960 in a letter to his agent as he was authoring Stranger In A Strange Land. It should be noted that 'major perversion' probably included non-monogamy as  Heinlein and his wife were almost certainly swingers. Although we have progressed some in the last sixty years, I think his comments continue to be somewhat valid.

 

Your comments?

[PeterJ 954]

3 hours ago, adamgunn said:

“Concerning sex, our primary cultural assumption is that monogamy is the only acceptable pattern. A writer is permitted to write endlessly about rape, incest, adultery, and major perversion … provided he suggests that all of these things are always sinful or at least a social mistake — and must be paid for, either publicly or in remorse. (The thing the censors had against Lady Chatterley and her lover were not their rather tedious monosyllables, but the fact that they liked adultery and got away with it – and lived happily ever after.)”

 

This quote is from Robert A. Heinlein in 1960 in a letter to his agent as he was authoring Stranger In A Strange Land. It should be noted that 'major perversion' probably included non-monogamy as  Heinlein and his wife were almost certainly swingers. Although we have progressed some in the last sixty years, I think his comments continue to be somewhat valid.

 

Your comments?

This brings to mind Ang Lee’s 1997 film “The Ice Storm.” Non-marital sex — both swinging and adulatory — is cast in a negative light. And a moralistic fate deals a cruel blow; as a knock-on effect of a key party among adults the child of one of the couples is electrocuted by a fallen power line. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ice_Storm_(film)

[Numex 2,420]

People like to express moral outrage and condemnation, whether it be the chorus in Euripides or the audience of Jerry Springer.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

It's still perfectly relevant today. People are far, far more taken aback at the idea that a married person is playing with permission than they are with the idea of a married person cheating. Cheating is more socially acceptable than swinging. I've seen this first hand.

[njbm 2,879]

We find our lifestyle friends among the nicest people we know. Many couples have a tight relationship with good communication. They have a diverse sex life and healthy stimulation. Hedonism in life has its rewards!

[Numex 2,420]

8 hours ago, bbarnsworth said:

Cheating is more socially acceptable than swinging.

Cheating means that you're hiding it, an acknowledgement that you know it's wrong.  Swinging is admission all around that it's ok.

[bbarnsworth 2,640]

3 hours ago, Numex said:

Cheating means that you're hiding it, an acknowledgement that you know it's wrong.  Swinging is admission all around that it's ok.

And therein lies the problem. If you're cheating, you're not destroying the system we're told to follow. We're breaking the norm, but acknowledging (even if tacitly) that it's not good. The system is sustained. Swinging breaks down the system, and thus is not acceptable. Or so the logic likely goes. I don't get it personally.

 

I have a friend who objects to swinging but has been engaging in an affair with a married person. *boggle*

[hunterdonNJcpl 1,391]

21 hours ago, bbarnsworth said:

It's still perfectly relevant today. People are far, far more taken aback at the idea that a married person is playing with permission than they are with the idea of a married person cheating. Cheating is more socially acceptable than swinging. I've seen this first hand.

This is so true.

[J&Wu 408]

Hmmm, I was quite a Heinlein fan starting in Grade School up in the adult section of the County Library. I eventually found Fanny Hill up there too, perhaps explains my, "...major perversion...".

[couplers 4,653]

In my experience, women who have no problem having an affair with a married man have difficulty if the wife is OK with it, more difficulty if she is encouraging it.

[adamgunn 1,460]

Couplers, why do you think that is?

[couplers 4,653]

4 hours ago, adamgunn said:

Couplers, why do you think that is?

Probably because they couldn't believe that I'm ok with them having sex with hubby (or boyfriend, Red) and they expect me to cause some drama.  In reality it's the opposite - he having sex with another woman was something that I did and do want.  Most were even more reluctant to let me watch/participate, probably for the same reason.  This is partially correct in that I did become extremely jealous, but it was also a turn on for me, and the jealousy made me love and want my husband and boyfriend even more.  Admittedly, it has become a drug for me.  The ones who did let me watch and participate were bisexual and wanted to play with me as well.  Actually, that was brought out my Lesbian side, my jealous desire to get into the mess that was/is sex between her and my guy.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

15 hours ago, couplers said:

Probably because they couldn't believe that I'm ok with them having sex with hubby (or boyfriend, Red) and they expect me to cause some drama.  In reality it's the opposite - he having sex with another woman was something that I did and do want.  Most were even more reluctant to let me watch/participate, probably for the same reason.  This is partially correct in that I did become extremely jealous, but it was also a turn on for me, and the jealousy made me love and want my husband and boyfriend even more.  Admittedly, it has become a drug for me.  The ones who did let me watch and participate were bisexual and wanted to play with me as well.  Actually, that was brought out my Lesbian side, my jealous desire to get into the mess that was/is sex between her and my guy.

I think people cannot wrap their heads around the lack of jealousy.

[couplers 4,653]

53 minutes ago, NWAtlSwing said:

I think people cannot wrap their heads around the lack of jealousy.

It's not a lack of jealousy, it is the way I control and enjoy it.