Husband went past boundaries in FFM, Now What?

[txnewbies 15]

My husband and I had our first FFM a few weekends ago and it didn't go too well. Now I don't know what to do about it. Let me explain:

 

A woman came over to the house and we all sat and chatted awhile, had a few drinks and all decided that we were comfortable with each other and started getting into it. It was fine at first -- I had told my husband previous that I was not comfortable with intercourse or heavy kissing. He said he was fine with that. But once we got started, the kissing got more and more deep-throat and soon they were making out. I guess this bothers me because he doesn't really make out with me anymore - I shrugged it off thinking he didn't like kissing.

 

Anyway, we got more into things and they were progressing quite nicely but then I made a mistake. I started thinking about what I was doing. I started becoming ashamed at myself and angry at him. The woman was larger than I am so it made me upset that he found her sexually attractive because I do try to keep my weight down. I was then no longer attracted to her.

 

I told them I wanted to stop and we did and she left very quickly.

 

Since then I have tried to talk to my husband about it. He has never once said anything negative towards it or her and hasn't done much to stroke my ego back. I'm hurt and he doesn't see it. I mentioned the "making out" and he told me that he didn't see it as a big deal.

 

Am I making too much out of it? I have tried to let it go - we have even made love since. He tells me that he will tell me anything I want to know -- I just have to ask. Now, too, I am still interested in the lifestyle or am I just fooling myself? Is the fantasy better than the reality?

[Alura 2,775]

I'm sorry to hear your first experience didn't go well, Txnewbies. My first impression is that things may have progressed too quickly and, yes, you may have made a mistake by analyzing your feelings during play.

 

Still, it seems both you and your husband may not have laid the proper groundwork before the event. Did you discuss how "heavy" the kissing should be allowed to be?

 

Since then, have you told him that you would like him to kiss you more passionately? One of the best benefits of swinging is to learn how to make your own sex life better.

 

Fortunately, the others respected your feelings enough to stop when you expressed your discomfort. That's a big plus on the road to understanding between you and your husband. Some men might have continued, citing testosterone as the reason.

 

I think the answer is the same as most problems in swinging. Communication between you and your husband. You must make him understand that he needs to listen to you and really understand your feelings.

 

On the other hand, you must be sure to understand his.

 

In my opinion, the most important aspect of swinging is to be able to separate the act of "making love" from the acts of sex. Know that no matter how hot things get, love is not being shared. It is important that both of you assure the other constantly that this is not the case.

 

I'd also be interested to know how y'all met this lady and what was agreed to with her prior to the event. Perhaps she didn't know your feelings.

 

Mr. Alura

[txnewbies 15]

Thanks for your response. We met the woman through another personal Web site. She understood that I was not comfortable with intercourse - and actually she was glad. It was her first experience as well. She was very understanding of me and made sure that I was comfortable with things. Actually, she couldn't have been sweeter. She was very concerned and even called the next day to make sure my husband and I will be ok. We haven't heard from her since and I hope her next experience will be better.

 

I have told my husband that kissing is important to me - would like to make out more often. I have mentioned it several times over the past 6 years and that is why I figured he didn't like kissing that much. We do kiss but it is usually a nice sensual no-tongue lip kiss.

 

I told him that I didn't mind if he kissed her just no long, intimate kiss. I told him it bothered me because he hadn't kissed me like that in years. He didn't say anything to that.

 

When we first started discussing this lifestyle, he didn't share a lot. It wasn't until an arguement occurred that I finally got him to open up about what he wanted. He basically wanted it all but doesn't feel comfortable having another man in the room so different room swapping was great for him! That threw me for a loop - I thought he wanted to experience this with me - not separate from me. And if he were in a situation, he would just go for it.

 

I admit that I am bi-curious so not having another man present wasn't that big of a deal - but now I wonder how he would react if there were.

[J&T Indiana 31]

I'm gonna be a little blunt here, from a man's perspective BUT my wife has read this and TOTALLY AGREES.

 

He has never once said anything negative towards it or her

 

Why would he say anything negative about her? He doesn't have any negative feelings, you do. He'd be lying if he said something negative about her.

 

and hasn't done much to stroke my ego back.

 

Why is it his responsibility to 'stroke' your ego back? He didn't bruise it. MAYBE he kissed a little 'deeper' than you were planning, but you did say kissing was OK and it doesn't appear that you made very clear rules.

 

Based on your post, it looks like your problem ended up being kissing 'in general' not just deep kissing. I think you would have been upset whether it was deep kissing or just lightly "making out". If you felt uncomfortable about kissing in general (which it looks like you do since you complain that he doesn't kiss you anymore) then you should have said "no kissing" or at least been more specific. If you didn't KNOW it would bother you and it did bother you, you can't blame him.

 

Your post continually says, "I was ashamed of myself", etc. This is not HIS problem.

 

Of course he was attracted to her, otherwise he wouldn't hvae wanted to have sex with her. You should know that and it shouldn't bother you.

 

What you should be focusing on is that when you said, 'stop' he immediately obeyed your wishes and didn't throw a fit. That's about all he could have done.

 

 

I'm hurt and he doesn't see it.

 

Have you TOLD HIM that? That you really are hurt?

 

Even if you have, you still need to tell him what he can do about it. He can't read your mind.

 

And even if he understands that you are hurt, and even WHY you are hurt, what can he do about it? He didn't do anything wrong, other than MAYBE a little too much kissing.

 

He can apologize to you for how you felt, but what else can he do?

 

I'll be up-front, we both think that the problem lies on your end. Neither of us can think of anything he can do to help ya other than be understanding and a good listener. You want him to "tell" you stuff, but there's nothing to tell.

 

 

Is the fantasy better than the reality?

 

For some, probably. Not for us.

 

 

Sidenote: we are both reading the Dr. Laura book "Proper Care and Feeding for Husbands". She's an idiot many times but she makes some great points and somehow has gotten into a man's psyche. I'd suggest you read the first 2 chapters and try to use that advice in this situation. Seriously.

[b_and_sc 16]

I was getting ready to reply and read J and T's response and they said everything I was putting together in my head.

 

Sometimes couples jump in with both feet before either of them are totally ready. You really need to have frank, open discussions BEFORE you attempt any other swing activities. If you are too embarrassed to say exactly what you want, don't want, etc, then you aren't ready to play in this lifestyle.

 

I have to agree that when you said stop and they did, that alone tells you how much he loves and respects you...and the follow-up phone call from 'her' was an awfully nice touch on her half.

 

take some time to figure out what REALLY bothered you about it all...and I think you will agree with what J & T said that it was YOUR thoughts and YOUR feelings and NOT the actions or behaviors of your other partners...that's not a criticism, this way of life isn't for everybody, you just need to be sure before you do anything else

 

b

[wrnakedru 38]

I agree with most of what has been said already. And first of all, I am sorry that your first experience is not one you will look back on with fond recollection.

 

I think more probing conversation/communication needs to happen between you and your husband.

 

It is unfortunate he was reluctant from the first to truly share his desires with you until an arguement brought it out of him. It seems you were trying to communicate regarding your wishes but perhaps he didn't hear all of the meaning behind your words.

 

You do not want a great deal of kissing because it is something you greatly enjoy but have had to get by without. So you recognized the potential problem that could arise and asked for that not to be a portion of the action. You also drew the line short of intercourse - which is fine, as long as with all things - the two of you agree that it is reasonable and acceptable.

 

Point A to Point C was therefore not the way a FFM threesome was agreed to go for you. Point A=kissing Point C=intercourse

This leaves Point B to encompass everything else - and what you DID deem as okay. It's difficult to say if Point B would have been okay either since it never came into play.

 

The problem when all are "newbies" is that all lack experience to draw from. The most happy way to deal with Point A would have been for one of the three of you to recognize the kissing could/should be amongst the three of you. [Your hubby would have had to adjust to more 'tongue' than you say is normally his practice.] A three way nuzzling, probing, tasting of mouths as three bodies began feeling the arousal is extremely pleasurable. And let's face it, it's difficult to leap to Point B without some sort of 'warmup'.

 

You were all newbies - but, ... honestly? ... you should have taken the lead here. If you had, you would have been the one setting the pace - and you also would have been feeling enough excitment, arousal, and 'push' so to speak - you would not have had the opportunity for the dissociation you felt instead. It seems the other lady was trustingly following where she was lead. It is too bad that she is now questioning herself and her role in the unhappy results. I think you liked her and it could have been a wonderful first experience. As it was, there was no chance for the other two to do anything BUT fail, I think.

 

Part of the needed communication is for you to ask your husband WHY - exactly why - he prefers not to have another man in the room. He may not have examined his reasons himself. But I would bet that at least some of his reasoning is to avoid the same reaction within himself that you felt. The viewing of a mate, enjoying another with evident pleasure and arousal is a mental adjustment usually best aided by the active involvement of all in every part of the playtime.

 

Perhaps what neither of you considered is that despite your interest in bisexual activity, you still have the capacity to feel the same discomforts and jealousies that he seeks to avoid by keeping a male out of the room. Ask him to envision how it might have gone if this first time had been an MFM - with him attempting to deal with the visuals before him - - and then explain that was the same problem you were having. If you can get to the point you both understand that those feelings are normal - and don't necessarily mean the thought of lifestyle activity is over.

 

You just need to figure out the activity that wil include all in a manner most advantageous to achieving the desire results.

 

Good luck - don't beat yourself up over this - learn from it - relax - move forward - and enjoy!

 

wrnakedru

[Avantgarden38 18]

In my opinion, the most important aspect of swinging is to be able to separate the act of "making love" from the acts of sex. Know that no matter how hot things get, love is not being shared. It is important that both of you assure the other constantly that this is not the case.

 

 

Ahhhhhh. . . .the "L" word.

 

We as swingers seem to fear that word as it relates to our playmates. I wish it had more than one definition. Or perhaps different words to describe different levels of love.

 

I think it depends on one's comfort level. We have never loved a swing partner as much as we love each other as husband and wife, but we have loved them as people. We prefer it that way if we can find it and develop it into that type of relationship. The best sex for us is having sex with people we truly care about.

 

Would we want a playmate we love as a spouse? Of course not.

 

We have experienced the sex-only relationships, the friends-and-sex relationships and the "love"-sex relationships. We prefer the emotions as well as the sex.

 

Why wouldn't you want your sex partner to love you, too? Love handled properly isn't a threat. It is what makes us different from just animals having sex. (Although that can be good also:) )

[4Beauty2C 17]

Hub and my comfort level is high. We want what makes us happy when we are with our couples. As long as we are both happy that is what counts. If not, time to talk things out for what we could do better the next time.

[Vjklander 138]

Sometimes it is hard to not be the center of attention.

J

[txnewbies 15]

Thanks to everyone for your response - blunt as some where! I needed to hear it all and appreciate it. And Vjklander - you are right -- it is hard not to be the center of attention.

 

I have learned a lot and hope things can progress from here.

[JustAskJulie 2,595]

I caught a red flag in your second post when you said that he wanted it all but didn't want another guy in the room but was ok with seperate room play. I would wonder here if this isn't about sharing at all but about him wanting to sow his oats and knowing the only way to do so is to make it seem like you guys are doing something together.

 

The fact that he doesn't kiss you anymore, makes me wonder if he doesn't enjoy kissing you. I don't believe there are bad kissers just incompatible kissers. I had this problem with my ex, he didn't kiss like I liked so we ended up not really kissing much.

 

It just sounds to me like there is a lot more talking you guys need to do before you consider swinging again.

[Spoomonkey 421]

Julie

 

Thanks for sharing some of Mrs Spoomonkey and my thoughts. As we read the thread, we were surprised that no one seemed to notice that what their "swinging" experience had devolved to was little more than "replacement".

 

The single woman in question seemed to have been an incredible and rare kind of woman, honestly. The fact that she called the next day was both incredibly sweet and incredibly brave. Bravo to her!

 

However, we had a problem with the overwhelming sentiment that Mrs. txnewbie was just being over-sensitive. Why? Because her husband kissed another woman the way he hadn't kissed her in ten years??? Are you kidding me??? Of course she should be bothered by that. How could she not be?

 

It seems to me that the one thing that is indispensible in "couple health" within the lifestyle is that everything at home is happy and strong. In this story, that obviously wasn't the case. Mr txnewbie seemed to be using the opportunity to replace something that was missing - because if he can't kiss the missus that way, then something is amiss...

 

Advising Mrs txnewbie to simply "suck it up" strikes me as being alittle bit dismissive and quite honestly careless. Three big problems that I see are these:

 

1. They don't kiss anymore - in other words, their personal initmacy is weak. I am not saying that Mrs spoomonkey and myself roll around on the living room floor the way we once did, but I can promise you that neither of us would see the other do something that we neglect at home.

 

2. Mr txnewbie doesn't "stroke her ego"... Are there really couples in this lifestyle that don't realize that swinging is full of little landmines called "insecurities"? Of course one spouse should be attentive enough to the other to make sure that they feel beautiful and desirable. Of course egos should be stroked a hell of a lot more than the bodies of playmates... This just further proves that the intimacy is missing - and without that swinigng is a dangerous sport.

 

3. There is no sense of sharing in any of what Mrs txnewbie has written. Mr txnewbie seemed to climb on the "house guest" and might have even preferred if he'd been there exclusive of the missus. I don't have an issue with seperate room swaps (we don't do them, but I can see the potential excitement in them) but to me it seems that this was really what the Mr wanted.

 

I don't think that there is anything wrong with Mrs txnewbie being upset. There is room for her to be upset at herself - I'll agree. Swinging is the worst way to try to fix relationship problems - and everything I have read smacks of that. The fantasy of it may be a great way to heat things up between two people, but my suggfestion is play within the fantasy until Mr txnewbie is coming in form a hard day's work and pinning you against the refridgerator and taking you over the kitchen/dining room pass-through. When your fire is fully stoked, when you want to swing but think that no one will ever be able to fit between the two of you, then you can start inviting others in.

 

Our first swinging encounter had many of the same problems that Mrs txnewbie describes. I had second thoughts, trouble performing, insecurities galore... Mrs Spoomonkey didn't notice - thought my "sitting out" was an attempt to fulfill my voyeuristic nature. Afterwards, I was an emotional wreck and all that happened was a little oral swapping... I had to really step back and take account of my emotions - and we had to talk a lot. Mrs Spoo stroked my ego, listened to me vent, held me when I cried about it, and reassured me that all of this was about us - not her, not our friends... I am reluctant to write this because it was a tough time - not really for us, since we are very much in love with each other, but for a part of our relationship that we were both dying to explore. We both thought that it had died right there in a rental cabin...

 

But - we've worked through it and have had some extremely wild times. Working through that rough patch helped me to know that Mrs Spoomonkey is in love with me deeper than I sometimes understand. And even in a pile of five, I can feel our connection even if our bodies are wrapped around another... maybe what I have here is soapbox, but I truely believe that if a couple is bringing unresolved relationship issues into swinging, then they don't belong here - not yet... But - as our "pile ups" have proven - these little hiccups can be gotten past. But not if you try to put swinging before your relationship.

 

Mr Spoomonkey