We are new to here

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Hi Everyone. We are Billy and Debbie thinking about having sex with old friends. 

We have friends from our old city before we moved who we know are swingers. They told us to sign up on here to ask and find answers to all the questions they haven’t answered. We always were amazed that they are so free to have sex with others when they told us about friends they have and vacations they took. They always asked us to join them and they joked that we were like old people thinking sex is bad. I always asked how do you let guys fuck your wife, he would answer why not. I couldn’t do that to her and I don’t want you fucking Deb. We have been invited, always laughing it away. 

By joining here you can tell we are thinking. It has to be normal to feel you can’t let your wife fuck someone. Right? Is there a reason not to feel that way?  Even thinking about my friend and my wife has me thinking how wrong this could be. We are making the list why we shouldn’t try this. Debbie and I are talking about why shouldn’t or could do this. We aren’t religious or so high moral thinkers. Why do people make judgments about swingers? My friend has made an offer to be our first or he would invite friends to the house so we can watch and chose.

Thanks for letting us join this group and read comments and other posts. I am sure everyone answering will tell us how great swinging is. 

[Lionheart72 2,190]

Welcome. Here, I think you will find lots of people open and willing to answer any questions you have.

 

So, to the heart of your questions...

 

20 minutes ago, BillyandDebbie said:

It has to be normal to feel you can’t let your wife fuck someone. Right?

 

Depends on what you mean by "normal" I suppose.

 

Conventional wisdom suggests that swinging just isn't right for the vast majority of people. Our society trains us for monogamy. Our cultural stories emphasize the idea that people should join together in pairs and that breaking that bond is wrong. There is even an argument to made that jealousy is a hardwired response related to our instinctive drive to perpetuate our DNA. Swingers, however, don't embrace that.

 

For my wife and myself, we were never monogamous even before we knew what swinging was. We simply are not wired for it. I personally take great pleasure in watching my wife fucking someone else and she takes great pleasure in being watched. For us, it's a happy, positive, enjoyable experience that actually strengthens the bond we share. For you, it sounds like it's not.

 

What is important to realize that that is OK. It is OK for swinging to wrong for you (just like it is OK for it to be right for us). Everyone has different things that work for them.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Welcome to the site!  There is a ton of great info and a lot of great people always willing to give advice, so ask away with all of your questions

 

Lionheart's post is right on the money and touches on things that are absolutely true.  Some (most) people just aren't cut out for swinging, and absolutely nothing wrong with that. I too am a big believer in people need to do what's right for them.  I think the cause for a lot of bad or failed relationships is when external influences (work, toxic friends and family, societal pressure, etc.) and/or selfishness within the relationship (cheating, dishonesty, etc.) are allowed to override that innate feeling that a couple develops of what's right for the relationship.  There are those that shouldn't swing but do, those that should swing but don't, those should swing and do, and those those shouldn't swing and don't.  Odds are people in those last two are having the best overall relationships since they are going with what they know is right for them.

 

Another important thing is a word you don't see very often. "Compersion", which means taking happiness in someone else's happiness.  So if you see your partner happy from enjoying a great sexual experience, no matter who it's with, that makes you happy.  For most people, the negatives of even thinking about or especially seeing your partner with someone else block any compersion.  They likely share their partner's happiness at other things, career achievements or whatever, but it doesn't extend to the sexual realm. With swingers, that line isn't there.

[Thegreyarea 100]

An open mind is a requirement. Even though you’re not religious or have moral issues, the societal programming did its job. It’s good that you’re checking it out for yourself,  but like others have said, it’s not for everyone. At least you’re giving it a fair shake by researching the topic though. 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

WE read so many posts last night. Some questions brought up more questions. Questions brought up conversation, conversation lead to SEX. Not a bad thing. Debbie asked me if I would watch, do I want to watch, would I enjoy watching, would I watch if it was our friend or better with a stranger. Good questions. She additionally asked if I think our lady friend is attractive, would I pick her up if she was in a singles bar and we were all single. She asked me if ever thought of her friend sexually before. Last night I sure did all night. I blocked out the thought of our male friend and Debbie and undressed in my mind the girlfriend. In my mind YEAH I would do it. Can I? 
Read a lot about sex with friends, pros and cons. I could go bad, more for us, less for them. They are already swingers. We read a thread that it’s better with people you know and like, and we read do we lose friends if it goes bad. 
We are still dealing with the can we question. Do we want to question. The more we talk the more curious we become. We found a recent article in a newsfeed, Is Monogamous Sex, Monotonous Sex. I never thought it monotonous but is it? Do we have the same sex every time, do we change it up? We have been monogamous since we became committed. She never complained about our sex, I’m happy, is there more?  
Debbie’s question if I would watch and enjoy, I asked her if she could watch. She said she would if I wanted. 
More talk, more questions, more answers, more excitement, more doubt, more reassurance. We decided that to the moment we can change our minds.   

[Lionheart72 2,190]

A theme I'm sure you've seen by now in many, many posts is that the key to successful swinging is communication. Communicate, communicate, communicate. It sounds like you're doing a great job of that! Even if you never end up swinging, that kind of open, honest communication is the bedrock of many a great relationship.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Agreed.  Communication is all, it is totally essential.

 

1 hour ago, BillyandDebbie said:

She never complained about our sex, I’m happy, is there more?

 

Yes, but...

 

There is only more with your sex life as a couple, which can be greater than the sum of the two parts.  Individually, if you both are already happy with your individual sex lives, I don't think you are going to find swinging changes that much.  Nor should it. But as a couple, I think you will find it supercharges your sex life as the compersion thing kicks in and her sexual happiness becomes part of you on top of your individual happiness and satisfaction, and same for her with you.

 

Swinging sex can range from bad to ok to fantastic.  Honestly, most encounters are going to fall well short of fantastic, and you just hope the bad ones are few and far between. 

 

After you have been with someone for so long, you and her know each other in and out, including in the bedroom. For a lot of people, having sex with someone new, especially someone you just met say like at a club, that comfort level just isn't there and for many (including us), the more comfortable you are with someone the better the sex tends to be.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

36 minutes ago, cplnuswing said:

 

2 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

She never complained about our sex, I’m happy, is there more?

 

Yes, but...

 

There is only more with your sex life as a couple, which can be greater than the sum of the two parts.  Individually, if you both are already happy with your individual sex lives, I don't think you are going to find swinging changes that much.  Nor should it. But as a couple, I think you will find it supercharges your sex life as the compersion thing kicks in and her sexual happiness becomes part of you on top of your individual happiness and satisfaction, and same for her with you.

 

I'm going to quibble... I don't think there is "more." I think there is "other."

 

My wife and I are happy. We enjoy sex together. We have fun together. As cplnuswing says later, we know each other and we know what works for each other. What's more, because we communicate well, when we want to explore something new (in the bedroom or out) we are pretty willing to discuss it.

 

What swinging brings to us is new and different opportunities. It isn't more. It isn't better (A lot of new people post the question "what do I do if the other person my partner is with is better/bigger/hotter/whatever than me?"). It's just different. Part of it is new experiences. My wife and I have both picked up some new tricks from swinging partners that we wouldn't have known we enjoyed if we hadn't encountered them. Part of it is things you just physically can't do with only two people.

 

However, as I said, I would never call any of it "more." We actually haven't been able able to swing since we moved several years ago. While we both miss the fun of it, our sex lives are still plenty satisfying without it.

[findinganswers 369]

22 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

We are Billy and Debbie thinking about having sex with old friends. 

You are more than thinking if you signed up asking for advice. I asked all the same questions you are asking all the time trying to reconcile the thought of having sex with my wife’s best friend. 

 

5 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

I blocked out the thought of our male friend and Debbie and undressed in my mind the girlfriend. In my mind YEAH I would do it. Can I? 

I did that too. Heck she is good looking and I knew she wanted me, they were the swingers already just like your friends. 
I can tell you friends are the best way to start, they will be the least pressure and can make it fun. 
 

 

[njbm 2,870]

There are swinger’s clubs, such as Trapeze in Ft.Lauderdale, Colette’s in Dallas and New Orleans. Newbies can go there one night with no intention to swap and watch what happens. Not to be pervs about it, but there are open play areas where people are ok being watched. You can even have sex just with each other there. It’s a step in the swinging direction and a chance to feel the vibe. 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

No interest in a swingers club for us, no interest in watching strangers have sex in a club. 
Our big problem is can we have sex with others and watching adds to the problem. We are still talking about it, inching closer to maybe. 

[Lionheart72 2,190]

1 hour ago, BillyandDebbie said:

No interest in a swingers club for us, no interest in watching strangers have sex in a club. 
Our big problem is can we have sex with others and watching adds to the problem. We are still talking about it, inching closer to maybe. 

If I may say so, I think it's very positive that you seem to be getting a handle on what does and doesn't work for you.

 

I wanted to toss out another bit of advice (which you may seen in other posts but just in case). As you continue to talk, remember there is a big difference between what sounds really great when you're all hot and naked and having sex, and what sounds like a good idea when things are calm and clear. Lots of people find the fantasy of a thing really hot but when they think about it in the clear light of day, they could never do it. So, when your talking about swinging and considering actually doing it, focus on how you feel about it when you're dressed and sitting down to breakfast, not when you're all hot and bothered and climbing into bed.

[lcmim 1,082]

How old are you?

It sounds like the two of you likely have a lot to discuss. It would not surprise me if this process took years, not months to work through.

 

There are any number of very good resources on ethical nonmonogamy.

We went through several on our journey. One was by a fellow list member fundamentallaw.

 

Haste is not your friend. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by lcmim

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Let’s call our age 40. College graduates, Debbie has advanced degrees. We think of ourselves as thoughtful and open minded. 
We are discussing. Our haste is only due to a holiday visit with the friends we are considering having our first with. We are reading posts here and other resources, Debbie is very proficient at research. Pretty methodical in her approach to everything we do. Even dinner reservations have to be researched. If we go forward the decision will be mutual. 
Discussing swinging has been fun for us in the bedroom, we are talking more during sex and laughing more. 

[njbm 2,870]

As Mike Tyson said, “Everyone knows what to do until they get punched in the face.”

The reality of swinging is much different than anything you can read or imagine. 
Generally, we have found it very exciting and stimulating. We had little to no jealousy, but that may be a problem for the average person. Let us know what you do!

[BearCouple 4]

We are in our early 40s and we didn’t start swinging until about 3 years ago. It made our sex life even better, and put things in a different perspective for us. It eliminated a source of potential jealousy by erasing that psychological barrier. For us it’s been a net positive. It certainly isn’t for everyone. The key is communication and consent. If the other person is feeling pressured, that’s a sign that more communication is needed. It should never be one person pushing and the other goin along just to make them happy. That leads to stress and problems.

[lcmim 1,082]

40ish? You have plenty of time. We were together as a couple almost that long before we seriously considered it.

 

Career , children , aging parents that required care, all had higher priority.

We have no regrets about playing our life as it was dealt, "to every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose". The trick is recognizing it.

 

I will again recommend the well written and insightful books available.

You asked about the rightness and normalcy of this all. While I cannot agree wholeheartedly with the entire contents of these books, they do help form the questions in ways you may not be considering.

 

 I will volunteer, " The Ethical Slut" as one book.

Edited November 21, 2021 by lcmim

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Thank you for some insight. 
 

We have decided not to decide and will continue to discuss. I can’t say we made a definitive decision. 
 

As we head out for the holiday weekend, we start with open minds. We know if we go forward it will only be with friends, not strangers. That if is a very big if. 

[cplnluv1 872]

Happy Thanksgiving and safe travels. 
Billy and Debbie it is great that you are discussing all the possibilities and sharing here. For us the discussion was part of the fun we had before we went forward. When we started out we didn’t have a friend to guide us or advise us, we were very secretive in our search for our first couple. I wonder how different our first would have been if it were with people we truly enjoyed being with. 
We are currently having fun with two couples who were friends before playing. Though we have been with both separately, we are now the third and can see the interaction the others have. We may have been the facilitators that brought the friends together sexually, I can see how their friendship plays out in a completely new way. It is much different from people playing with strangers, they have an emotional synergy in their play. 
Good luck in the choice you make. I am looking forward to reading about your weekend. 

[couplers 4,638]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:00 PM, BillyandDebbie said:

It has to be normal to feel you can’t let your wife fuck someone.

Your wife had sex with other people before you, and if something happened to you, she would have sex with new people.  So what's wrong with her (and you) enjoying sex with someone else while you two are together?

On 11/19/2021 at 3:00 PM, BillyandDebbie said:

We have been invited, always laughing it away. 

The only thing you two need to agree on is to try it several times (hardly any activity, riding a bike, skiing, is fun the first time) and if you both can't agree to continue, then stop.  No blaming, no recriminations, just stop and move on to the next adventure: hang gliding, scuba diving.

Edited November 26, 2021 by couplers

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

 Sorry, I've been away for the computer for the last week... The only real advice that I have to add is to ask you: Does love equal sex? Does sex equal love? Meaning do you believe that you can only have sex with someone you love? What about all of the couples that don't or can't have sex with their partner...does that mean they don't love them? If you have sex with someone, does that mean you have to love them as well? Once you begin to realize that societies belief that love and sex are not the same thing...that you can have sex with someone and not love them, things sometimes become a bit easier to understand.

 

Something else is that you two decide the limits and rules. Just because you are talking about swinging doesn't mean that the first time you MUST have sex with the other couple...you don't and should never feel like you need to. When we first started, we began by playing pool with another couple...as the game went on, the women lost more and more buttons on their tops. Next came the hot tub...oops, we didn't have any bathing suits, but it was dark so naked was okay. We talked and fondled our partner with no cross-couple touching. After awhile of watching them naked, it was time to go home and have some 'private time' without them. We took small steps, and while others may be able to jump into the deep end of the pool, that doesn't mean you can't slowly ease your way into the water by using the steps.

 

Set your limits, make sure that both couples know what they are, don't violate them, and have fun. Limits can always be changed once you see how you both feel about what has happened previously. Never move faster than the slowest member is comfortable with, and communicate, communicate, communicate, but you also have all of the time in the world. Sometimes the journey is as fun as the destination.

[AndrewandAnn 360]

Here's something else for you to consider: Your health.

 

Engaging in sex with multiple partners, who have also engaged in sex with many other partners, carries with it certain inherent medical risks. You'll want to educate yourself on what are those risks and how you can mitigate them before you decide to take the leap. 

 

We strongly recommend having an open and frank discussion with your medical doctor about your intentions. She/he will likely recommend a series of vaccines as well as provide you with some behavior counseling to reduce the risks. 

 

There's another active thread started by an unfortunate couple who recently contracted HSV2 (herpes) and are now dealing with the reality of having a chronic sexually transmitted disease for which there is no cure.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

We have received a few PMs asking how things turned out last weekend. 
We did visit our friends, did discuss options both privately and with our friends which led Debbie and I to decide not to join our friends as swingers. 
We are still leaving future options open as we figure some of the opinions other posters offered and figuring out our own feelings. 
Thank you to those who have replied to our first post. 

[enhancer 1,585]

3 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

We have received a few PMs asking how things turned out last weekend. 
We did visit our friends, did discuss options both privately and with our friends which led Debbie and I to decide not to join our friends as swingers. 
We are still leaving future options open as we figure some of the opinions other posters offered and figuring out our own feelings. 
Thank you to those who have replied to our first post. 

It is great to hear that you two are really thinking things through on what you do or do not want to try!  Regardless I am sure that it has opened up your communication with each other in a positive way and if nothing else that is only a plus.  

 

Keep using this site as a source while you guys think things through.  Lots of different opinions with lots of different perspectives which is a good thing, because everybody’s journey is their own.  Find whichever one works best for you two and don’t settle for less.  

[findinganswers 369]

18 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

We are still leaving future options open as we figure some of the opinions other posters offered and figuring out our own feelings. 

Every post on here leads to going forward or bad feelings and then your posts is a refreshing change, you talked it out. If swinging is for you more opportunities will be there. I had so many thoughts racing in my head before going forward, the pressure came from my wife and friends that were very accessible living not far from us. 
Enjoy your conversations at home, the thought of swinging seems to already started sexy talk for you. 

[cplnluv1 872]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:30 PM, BillyandDebbie said:

We did visit our friends, did discuss options both privately and with our friends which led Debbie and I to decide not to join our friends as swingers. 

The most important word you wrote, “discuss”. So many couples say they discussed where truthfully one partner talks and the other goes along. 
I like your friends without knowing them, they discussed along with you and didn’t pressure you into doing anything before all of you could be in agreement. Peer pressure, whether it’s a spouse who is more eager, or the experienced couple pushing a less than willing participant. I have learned the signals given by the unfortunate woman who is going along to satisfy a man’s fantasy. I appreciate the man who honors a woman’s hesitancy. 
If and when you both agree you want to take the next step your waiting will be worth it. 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Two weeks since we didn’t go forward with swinging with our friends, two weeks of talking about what could have been, two weeks of sexy talk and what we say is role play, two weeks of talking of maybe we will maybe do things and two weeks of saying it won’t be different.

This is becoming a choice that we know is different from all of our decisions. We always discuss Pros and Cons, and we are discussing the what ifs. I asked Debbie if she ever pictured our friends nude, her answer was she saw him almost nude, just swimsuit. She claims never wondering what was covered. I laughed. Don’t women ever mentally undress men? She said what he looks like, penis is not the factor. I kinda understood, I have mentally undressed our lady friend, don’t think what her pussy looked like would be a factor. Then the what if’s, what if he started kissing her. She didn’t know, that’s fair. In her mind would she be the first to touch him or would she see him touch her first. She returned the questions to me, I could kiss her, picture touching a breast and hoped our friend would reach for my crotch. I asked Debbie if she would watch, no answer. I asked her first could she undress him and would she want me to watch. Plenty of I don’t knows still.

The more we talk I’m reading the closer she comes to thinking it could happen. Our friends are happy as far as we can see, it has not hurt their marriage. With Debbie asking more questions of me, I think she is leaning more and more in one direction. Is it strange that my fear is less how will I react watching Debbie and more can I preform like I normally do, will overexcitement overtake the moment, will I freeze, will Debbie freak midway? We know what our friends want, also know they won’t pressure. We are a week from facing our questions and fears. 

[Idahocouple6969 294]

 

Sounds like you are doing everything right. I think she will come around, but at her own speed. Letting her come to a decision on her terms is a wise thing. Couples we have seen where one spouse was just going along ended in disaster.

 

Thanks for the update. We will be interested in following your journey.

[Lionheart72 2,190]

9 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Is it strange that my fear is less how will I react watching Debbie and more can I preform like I normally do, will overexcitement overtake the moment, will I freeze, will Debbie freak midway?

No, I don't think it's strange. It does suggest to me that you're starting to overthink and worry about that part of things.

 

Here's an important truth... you will never know what that first experience will be like until you do it and when you do it, it will probably be nothing like what you imagine. You can't prepare yourself or plan out the specific details of that moment, not the least because there will be at least three other humans involved (your wife and the other couple) over whom you have no control. It's important not to try. One hard thing I learned early in my swinging life is that the more you go with predetermined expectations, the more likely you are to be disappointed and/or upset when the moment fails to met them (as it will).

 

So, what I'm saying here is - stop stressing over the details of this. Enjoy the fantasy. Enjoy the deep conversations you and your wife are sharing. If that moment comes when you the plunge, put the fantasy and the planning aside, and just relax and have fun. Because that is the point of all of this... to have fun together.

[Thegreyarea 100]

Like others have said, you’re doing the right thing by talking about it. We talked about it for close to three years before we made the plunge. There’s a good chance your first experience will not go how you thought it would. Our first time with another couple was a complete shit show. You learn from those experiences and move on. It will get better as you get more comfortable. 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:35 AM, Thegreyarea said:

We talked about it for close to three years before we made the plunge

Only three years? We learned or were told that our friends went to a swingers resort before we moved, at least six or seven years ago. We couldn’t believe our close friends were doing this, amazed any couple do it. It took time before we could listen to the stories, we would go home saying we could never do that. They would call us bible people and living life as old people. Privately the husband told me what they were doing, in detail. Debbie told me she got juicy details too.

We moved hours away, our contact was mostly my phone, the wives mostly talked. We would come and visit or they would come to us, always the conversation would come up about vacations. They never overly pushed, only suggested to including us.

The talking we are doing now started before the world shut down, started again after they told us about a trip they took with another neighbor we had. We didn’t believe the others joined them, don’t know why we thought that.

I can say I am not pushing Debbie, she talks about too. It is a mutual equal talk. Driving to our friends last month we agreed we might, we didn’t. We are still talking, still wondering. 

[cplnluv1 872]

Nice to see you are still talking and having fun in doing it. Neither of you have closed off the idea of playing with friends, that leads me to believe you just need that little push, that little wink that tells you it will be fine. Know that the world will not come to an end with either decision.

You said you have been talking for years and you continue to talk. If nothing else happens this holiday trip you can still talk and have fun discussing the future.

As someone who has enjoyed being with first timers, I find that the ones that are nervous and not jump into things are much happier with the results and when we meet those that rush into things don’t appreciate what has happened. There is no fast rule of how things will turn out, never blame the other if things aren’t perfect.

We have a little trick to relax the other couples we meet, we suggest they start with each other instead of switching partners. None of them have ever had sex with others in the room or if they did it was in college in a shared dorm room. Some may have been on a nude beach before, some have never been naked outside their own bedroom. Small steps, unrushed can bring you both to a place you are headed to.

Your friends are good friends, you have stated they aren’t pressuring. They sound as friends that would be perfect if you decided to try it. 

[MidwestHoneys 358]

6 hours ago, cplnluv1 said:

We have a little trick to relax the other couples we meet, we suggest they start with each other instead of switching partners.

We have a trick too, a joint, if it’s legal. Calms everybody, tequila can make you sick. 

[ROCKlandCpl 451]

Sharing a J and tequila can lead to sex when you aren’t planning it. 
 

Our first was delayed a few times because of nerves. Keep talking and be thankful that your friends are patient. 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Here we go again, hitting the road later today. Thinking this will be the last time leaving home as a monogamous couple. We bought two a few Covid testing kits for the trip. Debbie is acting like this will be it, not much different from the last few times we visited so I don’t know how excited I should be. 

[Rock n Tits 186]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:31 AM, Lionheart72 said:

No, I don't think it's strange. It does suggest to me that you're starting to overthink and worry about that part of things.

 

Here's an important truth... you will never know what that first experience will be like until you do it and when you do it, it will probably be nothing like what you imagine. You can't prepare yourself or plan out the specific details of that moment, not the least because there will be at least three other humans involved (your wife and the other couple) over whom you have no control. It's important not to try. One hard thing I learned early in my swinging life is that the more you go with predetermined expectations, the more likely you are to be disappointed and/or upset when the moment fails to met them (as it will).

 

So, what I'm saying here is - stop stressing over the details of this. Enjoy the fantasy. Enjoy the deep conversations you and your wife are sharing. If that moment comes when you the plunge, put the fantasy and the planning aside, and just relax and have fun. Because that is the point of all of this... to have fun together.

Like many men I love watching Tits have sex with others men or women She is more sensual and excited when with a stranger

[cplnluv1 872]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:06 AM, BillyandDebbie said:

Here we go again, hitting the road later today. Thinking this will be the last time leaving home as a monogamous couple. We bought two a few Covid testing kits for the trip. Debbie is acting like this will be it, not much different from the last few times we visited so I don’t know how excited I should be. 

Don’t overthink what might happen, just make sure you are both thinking alike. There is only one first time, there is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. 
Make a promise to Debbie that you will never hold her actions against her, then ask her for the same commitment. 
Enjoy your trip and have a Merry Christmas. 

[ROCKlandCpl 451]

Try it, you’ll like it. Merry Christmas 🎄 

[lcmim 1,082]

"Thinking this will be the last time leaving home as a monogamous couple."

 

If you are worried maybe this will help with the mindset.

We believe that people conflate two concepts and then use one word incorrectly.

 

 The two concepts are Marriage and Sexual exclusivity.

The word that is used with a meaning different to what it means is Monogamy.

Mono Gameo in Greek means quite literally, I am to married to one. 

 

When the two of you are finished with this weekends adventure, remember that you are still married to each other and not to any others.

You will no longer be sexually exclusive. 

 

The big difference there is there is never any doubt who has your back, for either of you. Who is the person who you consult about decisions? Who is the person who is  "Your Person." Who is the one you trust above all others? That is marriage. Sex can and does support marriage don't get me wrong.

It is NOT marriage though.

 

Some people differentiate  Making Love and having sex as the defining thing as far as sex goes. That is as useful a distinction as any.

Edited December 24, 2021 by lcmim

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:06 AM, BillyandDebbie said:

Here we go again, hitting the road later today. Thinking this will be the last time leaving home as a monogamous couple. We bought two a few Covid testing kits for the trip. Debbie is acting like this will be it, not much different from the last few times we visited so I don’t know how excited I should be. 

Let us know how it goes

 

I wanted to touch on a few things you've said;

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It has to be normal to feel you can’t let your wife fuck someone. Right? Is there a reason not to feel that way?

Our society raises us to believe that monogamy is the only right and proper way to be with someone. All of our upbringing regarding relationships teaches us that having sex with someone else outside of your relationship is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You can't be more wrong than to do that. Cheating is horrible!

 

Except, swinging isn't cheating.

 

Jealousy is real. I used to be a very jealous person when I was in my 20s. I used to get jealous about my girlfriends at the time seeing a male gynecologist. There's an aspect of possessiveness in that. Thing is, jealousy is 99.9% bad. There's a small bit of it that is useful to remind us how much we love someone, but otherwise it's a very dark, damaging emotion. As above, we're taught that someone else wanting your spouse must be bad. We're supposed to be jealous about that. Ok, why? Where does that come from? Is it training and upbringing, or is it really how you feel deep down?

 

I have never felt jealous knowing or seeing my wife having sex with someone else. I love her completely, in every possible way I can imagine, and she with me. We are intensely committed to each other. That love, that sense of togetherness is the basis for why I don't feel jealous when another man is inside of her, I know we'll remain devoted to each other, no matter how good the sex is with the other guy.

 

So, to the question of is there a reason to not feel it's wrong? Absolutely. As my wife and I got into swinging, it rather amazed me just how much I enjoyed watching her enjoy another man. As mentioned, I wasn't jealous. I was actively turned on by it, and remain so to this day many years later. I delight in hearing her relish another man inside of her, I enjoy watching her move with him, and I love how happy it makes her to have another man, how incredibly turned on she becomes. For quite some time I attempted to explain to myself why it was I should take delight in this when all of my upbringing said this is wrong. I stopped trying to explain it, and just accept it. For me, my wife having sex with other men is a fantastic experience, and I am ever so glad that we went down this road.

 

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Why do people make judgments about swingers?

Because of many reasons some of which are; it doesn't just break society's standards...it flips the table completely over. People can't wrap their brains around it, and immediately decry it. People presume swingers are disease ridden filth mongers, without a care in the world about their personal health. People presume swingers are the gutter of society, the absolute dregs. It's so bad that people are far more accepting of cheating than they are of swinging. Cheating contains an edge of knowing it's wrong, and knowing that it's just an aberration, not something regularly accepted so society's rules are still in play.

 

I have a friend who knows my wife and I are swingers. This friend has been in a long term affair with a married man whose wife does not know. This friend is against what I am doing with my wife, but accepts herself having the illicit affair. Go figure.

 

As to the dregs of society; nothing could be further from the truth. Go into a grocery store of an evening; the mix of people you see are the same mix of people you see in swinging. There isn't a "type". My wife and I once played with a couple where the husband was the provost of a major university, one of the 20 largest universities in the country.

 

But, the judgements persist. This is one of the reasons why it's almost always a bad idea to propose swinging to friends who (so far as you know) are not swingers themselves. They will judge, and judge harshly. In your case, your friends are already swingers of course.

 

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She never complained about our sex, I’m happy, is there more?  

Not necessarily. Swinging isn't for everyone, and not swinging doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It doesn't work for some people, and it shouldn't ever be forced along. It's a team thing; you do it together, and the one coming along to the idea the slowest is the pace at which things should proceed...if they proceed at all. But consider this oft used metaphor in swinging; if all you ever had was vanilla ice cream, you'd die happy having that as your only flavor. Ice cream would be good, a treat, something you relished. You would also miss out on the many exquisite flavors of ice cream in the world, none of which by partaking would ever reduce your appetite for vanilla.

 

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Our big problem is can we have sex with others and watching adds to the problem.

Some couples don't like the idea of their spouses being right there, watching. Some couples play separately for this reason. But, the large majority of couples play together. If you get into swinging, It's likely you will find you enjoy watching your spouse having sex. Also, you may find your attention rather drawn away by the person you're playing with

 

My wife has had a couple of long term boyfriends over the years. As such, she has had many solo dates where she goes to them for a date followed up with a nice long sex session with them. She loves having me in the room with her when she's playing, but also enjoys playing solo as it provides an opportunity to focus solely on her lover. It's a different experience. I love hearing all about it when she comes home while I make love to her. It's a wonderful experience, but not something I think most couples should so when first getting into swinging.

 

 

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Our friends are happy as far as we can see, it has not hurt their marriage

When my wife and I first got into swinging, this was a concern of ours as well; what sort of impact would this have on our marriage? Was there potential for harm? Worse, potential for irreparable harm? We did our own investigations, part of which was here on this board. What we found was that about 70% of marriages are improved by getting into swinging, about 28% no effect, and 2% harmed. This was partly based on something we read back then (around 2008). We also felt that if our communication was strong, and we did things as a team, that there wouldn't be any harm, and if there were we could always back away from it and brings things back to center for us. It was a bit of a calculated risk, but we felt that the potential pluses far outweighed the potential negatives. We made the right decision for us. Our marriage was very strong before we got into swinging, and it only got stronger as we got into it.

 

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can I preform like I normally do, will overexcitement overtake the moment, will I freeze

I would venture to guess that the first time for most men results in performance issues to one degree or another. I know that was the case for my first time. The woman I was with was wonderful in so many ways. I really enjoyed her. But, the experience was very overwhelming, being with a new woman for the first time in ten years and also transfixed by my wife's experiences right there next to me on the bed. Mr. Happy was not entirely cooperative that night. We played with the same couple a month or so later, and there were no problems. It's normal. Don't get worked up about it.

 

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will Debbie freak midway

*You* could freak midway too My wife and I had a lot of rules at first. All of them are gone now, except for one which is apropos to this. It's the golden parachute clause; if either of us feels something is wrong and they must end the evening, we need only say so. The other of us will agree complete, we'll politely exit the scenario and then discuss it in the car on the way home. We've never had to use that, but it's a comfort knowing it's there. The only time I started to feel a slight bit like that was in an MFM where the other guy put his hand on my wife's neck while he was having sex with her. He wasn't choking her really, but it worried me. I was razor sharp focused on my wife's experience and she seemed to be very much enjoying it all, so I didn't put a stop to it. My wife later said it was unusual for her, but it didn't alarm her. 

 

You might consider a similar clause; it empowers both of you, and leaves both of you feeling like a situation won't get out of control.

 

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It is a mutual equal talk

This is critically important. Everything I'm reading from you indicates you are communicating very well, which is crucial for successful swinging.

 

--

 

I hope everything is going well for you, regardless of your decision to play or not!

 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

On 12/24/2021 at 4:13 PM, lcmim said:

 

"Thinking this will be the last time leaving home as a monogamous couple."

 

You knew, we weren’t sure. You were right. I’m going to post in first time section. 

[niceoslocouple 1]

My wife and I are currently exploring our fantasies as well, we're in our forties and have had a sexual explosion after introducing certain devices to our sex life. She has opened up on her desire to have a MFM threesome and lately also finger fucks and licks a Fleshlight she bought for me while we have sex. We've not yet wanted to include another person for the obvious logistic and practical reasons (don't want any crazies or any drama, plus...well, how to find the right person? It's not done in a jiffy), however I've been married for nearly 20 years now, and only this last year I've been able to say to my wife how much I'm turned on by watching her get pleasure from another man...

 

I suppose my point is it's a process. Sexually, I am personally extremely turned on by seeing my wife get pleasure and orgasms however they may come. As it turns out, she is coming out of her shell insofar as admitting that she has a massive threesome fantasy (for the first 15 years of our marriage this wasn't even discussed...). I suppose it depends on your perspectives really.

 

Being able to see past the filter of jealousy that society teaches us to have about non-monogamy is a powerful barrier. I've long since seen past that and I hope we someday both will put our mutual fantasy into practice, and also that she will break the final barrier about having sex with another female, as this clearly turns her on immensly (she still won't quite admit to it). The way to achieving full disclosure and openness in your relationship is steering clear of pressure, shaming and any negative reaction. We've always been extremely playful in the bedroom, and well...that is paying off. We are 45 and 48.

Edited June 27, 2022 by niceoslocouple

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

You are correct: life is a journey, marriage is part of that journey for many, swinging is part of that journey for a few. 

Happiness in life depends  introspection: understanding one's own perspective, needs, wants, desires, hopes, dreams. 

Happiness in marriage depends on choosing a partner who is compatible. While they may not have done that private introspection, they have likely created public values that reflect those private processes. Shared values is a strong predictor of a happy marriage.

Happiness in marital swinging depends on communication founded on those shared values such that the innermost feelings -- including fantasies and desires-- also become shareable. Swinging is the exploration of fantasies with clear intention and even clearer boundaries. 

 

Happiness in each is the realization of hard and sometimes risky work--understanding one self, choosing a partner, and choosing to journey into unknown territory together. 

[Numex 2,415]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:38 PM, Lionheart72 said:

There is even an argument to made that jealousy is a hardwired response related to our instinctive drive to perpetuate our DNA.

On the other hand, I have found that I am not so much jealous as I hope she had a great time and want my wife back to show her how much I love her.  Those times when she stops on the way home for a little something from him and/or her, when she gets home I am madly in love with her.  We will sit on the couch with our daughter, play a board game or watch TV and cuddle.  Then after our child is in bed we make intense love.  The instinctual drive for me is to get my chance at putting my DNA in my wife, and for her to know that any offspring she produces will have a safe and happy home.