How do I get over my fear and anxiety of swinging?

[Nu2this55 1]

I met my current Boyfriend in January 2021 on a vanilla dating site. We are in our 40’s. Initially when I met him I thought he was possibly too square and introverted for me but was attracted to him and he just a really nice guy. After our 1st date he said he wanted to see me again and divulged that he had been a single man within the lifestyle (swinger) and was ultimately looking for a committed long term relationship in which he could share the lifestyle with. He had mainly slept with women who had “hall passes”, participated in MFM, and gang bangs. I was initially shocked yet extremely intrigued. When I told him I would prefer monogamy, he said he had been in the lifestyle for 2+ years so could not see himself stopping and asked if I would be willing to date him and see where things go. I have to admit that the thought of it turned me on and made me even more attracted to him. We soon learned after several dates that we were highly compatible in many areas of our lives (especially sexually) and he decided that he wanted to be exclusive and monogamous with me and only focus on each other in order to build a solid and strong foundation, which I happily agreed with. After a year together, we are completely in love and are now talking about moving in with each other with the goal of getting married. After a year together, we finally decided to create a couples profile on Kasidie last month, since this was always the expectation. We are now corresponding with couples with the goal of setting up our first “meet & greet”. Now that this is closer to happening, I am starting to feel very insecure, jealous and possessive of him and just overall scared to lose him. I have had really bad relationships in the past where men have cheated and lied to me (including my ex husband) and it left me jaded. It took a lot of therapy to help me date and trust again after being divorced for 7 years. My Boyfriend is the first real relationship I have been in since my divorce. Now I’m feeling like maybe I’m repeating a pattern of picking a man where I feel like I’m not “enough” despite this being a path we are both deciding to do together. I’m also afraid that I won’t be able to handle seeing him with another woman, even though I will be able to have sex with another man in front of him as well, and it will be the end of our relationship for me. I’m also concerned he will fall for the women we are swinging with or it will become a free for all since it’s basically cheating with permission. I have shared my concerns with him and he stated that he feels we are rock solid, have a strong foundation, and I am “the one” for him, and I don’t have anything to worry about because I am the person he loves and we will be doing this together as a couple. We both have shared this is the best and healthiest relationship we have ever been in. Everything he says plus his actions make me feel secure and loved, but then I’ll have moments or thoughts where I feel this could threaten the solid and healthy relationship we have established and I start to feel like I don’t know if I can go through with it.  He did say that the “lifestyle” was his ultimate goal and the kind of relationship he wants, and I did know this would be the expectation from the get go and still decided to pursue a relationship with him anyways, so it’s not like this is a surprise. He did admit that if I back out or realize the lifestyle is not for me after we try, then it would be a deal breaker for him, and ultimately the relationship will end. I do understand his desire to want to be in the lifestyle and I can see many benefits of it, but it does hurt to know that the lifestyle is more important to him than the love we share, or is this just how I am perceiving it since it’s all new to me and I’m trying to understand the dynamics of it all? I really want to be completely uninhibited and feel completely sexually open like I see the other women are on Kasidie. I envy the women who have completely embraced and love the lifestyle. I have had a wild sexual past similar to my boyfriend but not within the lifestyle, so I know I am capable of going there and enjoying myself. I even fantasize about how it will be like and get turned on but then I start to get scared. How do I get over my fears and feelings of insecurity and jealousy before we have even tried this together?  I’m starting to feel like maybe I should just end it to avoid it all together and he should find someone else who will be all in and maybe I should find a man who will only want me and no one else. But again, is this just my perception because I was raised to be in monogamous relationships? Any advice or tips would be great, especially from other women who maybe had the same initial feelings and overcame them! 
 Thanks! 
Nu2this55

[Lips & Tongues 185]

39 minutes ago, Nu2this55 said:

it does hurt to know that the lifestyle is more important to him than the love we share

imho, you don't share love, precisely. you share complicity, sexual tastes, etc. but if he prefers the lifestyle to a relationship with you, then he is simply addict, he lost control, and love is nowhere to be found there. if one cannot sacrifice his past behavior for someone he pretends to love, then that four-letter word is simply a lie.

[njbm 2,870]

If you don’t want to participate in the lifestyle, don’t. I think your boyfriend seems unable to give it up. You could have one episode to see if it is for you. It is possible that you will enjoy it more than him. I can tell you that the reality of it is different than what people imagine. If you become experienced at it and play with experienced practitioners, it can be quite fun. But it is fraught with potholes. Jealousy, nutty partners, sexually inept partners, STDs, etc.  Decide what works for you. 

[fitrealswingers 25]

When I met my man, I knew within two hours of meeting him that I would love him.  Two hours later he told me he would never me monogamous, and that he had been in the lifestyle for 20+ years.  Explained what that meant, etc. etc.  I had a ton of questions and decided to give it a shot.  I had a repressed sexual history and marriage so this was all new to me. We love each other, but know that we can crave/need and feed our desires sexually and sometimes emotionally in the lifestyle. We are stronger for it and the honesty is amazing.

[lcmim 1,082]

"He did admit that if I back out or realize the lifestyle is not for me after we try, then it would be a deal breaker for him,"

 

That does not sound like a sound basis for either swinging or a marriage.

 

As for your concerns we were together for almost 40 years when the subject first came up. We had questions and concerns also.

It took us a few years to sort it out.

We would say that your concerns are normal both specifically and generally.

 

Being under the gun or being on any sort of timeline is not fair to you or balanced with the gravity of the questions.

 

Once we were satisfied with our answers to the questions, we proceeded with a very good and profitable addition to our relationship.

[Fundamental Law 2,885]

It's an interesting situation.

 

Both of you have sexual pasts, both of you have been open about the lifestyle, both of you have been flexible in what you are willing to consider and try, and he has been honest about his current preference for non-monogamy.

 

Either of you can unilaterally end the current relationship and force both of you to search for the next person. The question is, is that what either of you want? 

 

Relationships--especially matrimonial relationships--are about partnerships and accommodations. They are always journeys, and there will be adaptations along the way. Your current situation sounds as if it is fully honest and transparent. The questions that seem to be worth asking--is there genuine affection? do you trust each other? can you communicate without feeling hurt? do you respect him and does he respect you?  

 

Fidelity matters. But fidelity is not the same as monogamy. Does he treat you and others well? Would you be financially secure? Are there substance abuse issues?

 

Being open about enjoying some variety in sex is a lot better than not admitting it and cheating.   

 

It's not that "the lifestyle is more important to him than you are". Rather, he has disclosed who he is, you have accepted him for who he is, and now you are wondering what that would mean in the context of a marital relationship. It's a valid question, and one that is worth talking through. But enjoying the LS occasionally is not the same as a "sex addiction to be expunged or cured."

 

Which is the bigger risk to you at this point? Putting your toe into the LS and finding you don't like? Or putting your toe into the LS and finding that it's kind of fun? 

 

Jealousy is the expression of the fear of abandonment. You mention this fear in your note. Wouldn't you rather assess your (imagined) risk of him running off with some other swinger wife before you get married? 

 

If you had no interest in the LS, we would not be saying these things. But you have spoken of your past and of your current fantasies. It seems better to see what the LS is like for both of you before you get married than have the question postponed until afterwards. 

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

Nu2this55, welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place. The people here are a very helpful bunch of people. We will tell you how we see things, and give you the best advice we can. I know my wife and I never would have gotten into swinging without this forum. There is a lot of information here, and a lot of people willing to listen and give real feedback. Keep coming back, keep reading, keep asking questions. You can't make a pest of yourself with your questions, no matter how many you ask!

 

Ok, so I'm a guy and I know you wanted women's thoughts more, but hopefully I can offer some things to think about.

 

The "ultimatum" part of this is, I think, quite troubling. It casts a dark shadow over this that shouldn't be there. It is very laudable that your boyfriend has been upfront and honest with you about this from the beginning. I don't know what the timing of his ultimatum was, but if it wasn't early in the relationship that strikes me as a very strong negative in this. Saying he could not see himself stopping is not the same thing as telling you if you don't do it, it's over. This, more than anything, really gives me pause. I don't know that it means he loves you less than having sex with other women. It could mean he simply can't imagine himself as ever being monogamous again, has found a way to be respectfully monogamous with love and approval, and is seeking that. It's hard for us to know. But, the ultimatum is troubling.

 

Certainly he has expressed his desires and thoughts. It's equally important for you to express yours as well. Your feelings have equal legitimacy to his. Neither of you should ever feel like you are being judged by the other, nor taken down a notch or two by the other over something you said. An old girlfriend of mine were in an emotional intimacy class and that was a key ground rule; always be receptive, even if you don't accept, and not rejecting. This underpins communication. Successful swinger couples have excellent communication with each other, and feel very safe in discussing things between each other.

 

Swinging isn't about one's partner "not being enough". My wife is an absolutely amazing woman. I am truly blessed to be married to her, and I thank my lucky stars that I found her. I can't imagine life with out her. In every respect she is "enough". That word doesn't even begin to describe it. Without arrogance, just confidence because she says as much, she would say the same things about me. We enjoy playing with others not because we're not "enough", but because it is wonderfully fun!

 

Swinging is NOT cheating with permission. Cheating is a horrible, terrible thing that tears away at relationships, destroys trust, undermines faith in your partner. Even if the partner of the cheater is not aware they are being cheated on, it still corrupts relationships. This is why we don't ever play with people who aren't playing with permission. Cheating is disgusting in every respect.

 

Our society programs us to assume monogamy is the only 'natural' way for a relationship to exist. There have been many societies where non-monogamy has been embraced, and has provided the foundation for strong, successful societies. Some of these still exist today. The Mosou society (look it up) is an excellent example of this. Women are free to choose as many (or as few) partners as they like. This is not isolated. If you had grown up in such a society, you wouldn't think anything amiss in your boyfriend wanting to have sex with other women. It can be difficult, but stepping outside your social programming can provide a perspective on this that might prove helpful. It helps to decide what you want.

 

Jealousy is a powerful emotion. The best way to manage it is to have 100% open communication with your boyfriend, and ensure you have a very strong relationship with him. It's often been said here that swinging magnifies what it finds in relationships. If there is a deep, intimate love it will magnify that. If it finds a suspicion and distrust, it will magnify that. My wife wasn't all that comfortable with the idea of me having sex with other women at first. I was ok with that. We got past that after a couple of years. Lots of patience, love, communication. Fast forward many years, and my wife is comfortable with me having sex with other women. In fact, I have a very dear friend whom I dated for quite a long time some years before I met my wife. I am still very, very close with her. I've never had sex with her since we broke up oh so long ago, but my wife is comfortable with the idea of me doing so, and has even told this woman that. My wife was uncomfortable with the idea of me having sex with other women at first, but now is embracing what would be the most terrifying thing for a jealous spouse; the idea that I might go back to my old girlfriend. I never would, and my wife knows this (as does my old girlfriend). So, yes the jealousy question can be set aside with time, patience, and love.

 

If...IF...you decide to try swinging, you might consider having your first (or more) experiences being MFMs. They don't even have to be encounters where you have sex with other men if you don't want to. It could be that you might do everything but have sex, or mutual massage, or some other variation. This can help you gauge your own comfort level of having physical contact with another man with your boyfriend there. I can't know your own emotions on this, but if you're generally amenable to the idea of trying swinging, you might kick yourself for breaking up with your boyfriend and not taking a try at dipping your toe in the pool. It's just a thought, but you shouldn't push yourself either. That can be a recipe for disaster.

 

Not everyone can embrace swinging, and that's ok. For those that can, if they are in a very strong, well founded relationship, it can be an incredible and potent choice for your relationship. No, it doesn't fix anything, but if as I noted it finds a wonderful relationship it will magnify that. It can be an absolutely wonderful experience to be having sex with someone, look over and see your partner having an absolutely fantastic time having sex with someone else.

 

There's a common piece of advice here that you should know, and should talk through with your boyfriend. In getting into swinging, you should always move at the pace of the partner who is going slower. Your boyfriend is likely ready to do it now. You're not, and that's perfectly ok. He should be patient and want to be lovingly supportive of you. I would suggest that if he is not doing so, it is a sign of trouble. I would advise you to not move in with your boyfriend until you've worked this all out. Things are likely to get more messy if you do, and you will also possibly feel more pressure to have sex with someone else. You should never feel you are pressured.

 

There's a frequent poster here who goes by the pseudonym "couplers". She would probably be an excellent person to discuss these concerns with. I hope she sees this thread and responds.

 

 

 

 

[Nu2this55 1]

Thank you for the responses I have received thus far. They have been really helpful and insightful and are helping me to see the lifestyle in a different light and in a more positive way. 
 

I do want to clarify that my boyfriend did not give me an ultimatum but rather I asked him “what happens if I try it and don’t like it or can’t handle seeing you with someone else, then would it be a dealbreaker for you?” and he replied “yes it would be” however he followed by saying that he had every confidence that we would work through it and believes given the strong foundation and communication we have established in our relationship, that we will be just fine and we can start off slow and work through it together.  He wants to start with just meeting some couples out for drinks and see how I feel and see if there is a connection with no expectations and then if I’m interested we can see if I’m ready to take the next step. He also said “I don’t know how else to make you feel less insecure but to express to you that I want to be with you and we will be in this together. I love you and I will be coming home with you. Your the person I want to do this with”.  He has not been pushy with me and for the year we have been together he didn’t even bring it up until we started talking about getting more serious and moving in together. Our relationship over the past year has truly been focused on each other and building a strong relationship.  I’ve been onboard with the idea as I have always wanted to be with other women as well, so this will also provide me this opportunity. I was feeling good about it all until just recently when my old insecure demons started to haunt me.  I will continue to communicate with him and I’m hoping I will become more confident as we proceed further. He certainly is confident about us which makes me feel good. 

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

How you've elaborated on this is great. It does sound like he's being supportive and not pushy. That is very important! I think if I were in your shoes it still might bother me some to have this hanging over my head, that if I don't like it, it's over with him. But, you've known from the beginning this is what he wants. There's three possible outcomes; (a) you don't try at all and break up, (b) you try, don't like it, and break up, or (c) try, love it, and say together. I think what he's suggesting for a pathway forward offers a nice, slow approach to get you more comfortable and feeling less insecure.

 

What he is saying about him coming home with you is important. It's the love between you that is important to him. Let's say you played with another couple where the woman was 7 of 9 from Star Trek Voyager (look her up if you're not familiar), made him have incredible orgasms over and over again, and was basically perfect in every respect. Perhaps cause for insecurity, yes? He's saying it's not; he's coming home with you. My wife has played with men that are more wealthy than we are, are better looking (she disagrees), and have cocks larger than mine. She always comes home to me. I'm not jealous about it. Contrast; when I was 20, it really upset me that my then girlfriend was going to see a male gynecologist. It actually made me jealous. The difference is the love and devotion my wife and I have for each other. It feels alien to want to have sex with someone else when you're in love with your partner. Society screams inside your head that this isn't the way it's supposed to be. With patience, love, and understanding and the slow approach your boyfriend is suggesting, I think you will come to see that it isn't cause for insecurity.

 

As I mentioned before, swinging isn't for everybody. But, for those for whom it is, it is incredibly rewarding. If it wasn't, swinging wouldn't exist. If swinging destroyed relationships, this forum wouldn't exist. Time and time again we see couples getting into swinging who post here and talk about the positive impacts it has had on their relationships. It seems counter-intuitive; how can having sex with others uplift a relationship? Yet, it does. There was a survey that I saw many years ago regarding swinging. It wasn't scientific, so take it with a grain of salt. But, 70% of respondents indicated that swinging had actively improved their relationships, while only 2% reported a negative impact.

 

One other thing; if you do decide to go down this path, don't judge everything based on a single interaction. Swinging is in some ways no different than vanilla dating. You're going to meet some people that just don't work for you. My wife and I agreed before we took the plunge that we'd try it a few times before we made any decision to stop doing it. Good thing; the third time was the charm for my wife. She couldn't get enough sex with the guy, and had an incredible time. After that, she was hooked. You might have a different experience, but judging it all based on a single encounter might not give you the answers you need (as opposed to want).

[couplers 4,638]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:50 PM, Nu2this55 said:

I’m also concerned he will fall for the women we are swinging with

 

On 3/21/2022 at 4:50 PM, Nu2this55 said:

He did admit that if I back out or realize the lifestyle is not for me after we try, then it would be a deal breaker for him, and ultimately the relationship will end.

In two quotes I believe that I have summarized your dilemma: On one hand you fear that you may lose your man to another woman if you engage in the lifestyle, while OTOH you definitely will lose him if you don't.  First, appreciate his honesty.  Second, look at it as if it were another activity he was attached to (boating, hunting, old cars) - would it make sense to demand that a guy you like so much give up something important to him?  Third, swinging seems to be something that you would enjoy, since you admit

 

On 3/21/2022 at 4:50 PM, Nu2this55 said:

I have had a wild sexual past similar to my boyfriend but not within the lifestyle, so I know I am capable of going there and enjoying myself.

so jump in with the attitude that giving it a try with a chance of success is better than just walking away,