Need advice but mostly reassurance

[daisyrey 24]

I need advice from people who have experience in this lifestyle. My husband and I have been married almost twenty years. We ventured into the swinging lifestyle about three years ago and have had a few experiences. 1-a disastrous first house party, where I was the new girl, got a lot of attention, and felt nervous to say no to anything, and to make it worse, the house had a couple of “bulldog” male personalities that weren’t asking, just taking. 2-A hotel party where I didn’t participate, just watched my husband play. 3-full couple swap with the woman later discussed and last 4-hall pass for my husband with the woman discussed below. What led me to being interested in this lifestyle is I get so much pleasure watching my husband be pleasured. I love knowing he is able to receive pleasure from other women, because I have allowed it. (That’s the key for me - me allowing it) Before we ever attended an event, I stressed to him that my one rule was that nothing be hidden or kept from me. If something isn’t shared with me, it feels like cheating. I elected not to be part of a Kik message group because of our kids always getting on my phone. I was happy to let him do all the talking and arranging, and I would read messages when I could. Last year, my husband connected to a woman and they hit it off via texts. I would occasionally read messages, but over time would just ask him if they had chatted and he would answer yes, but just about boring stuff. We made plans to meet the woman and her husband and share an evening together. The night before we met them, I looked at the messages in my husbands phone and was stunned to see months of nude pictures, and sexting. Let me be clear that none of that would have bothered me, had I known about it and been shown the messages as they happened. I went through with the swap, and never felt jealous or upset seeing them together. I was only upset at my husband being deceitful, especially since he knew I enjoyed seeing him turned on. So we had a huge conversation and I stressed to him that going forward I had to see those messages. I couldn’t feel left out. If he did that again, I might not be able to go forward in a marriage  with a man I couldn’t trust. He promised that going forward I would see everything, that he now understands how important that is to me, and he seemed genuinely terrified at losing the life we had built. 
 

The following 9 months, I could see where My husband and this woman occasionally texted with pictures being sent and light sexting going on,  and I occasionally read the messages, mostly I didn’t  because I want to have trust. (I want to clarify that this woman has no idea that my husband was deceitful in any way and she believes I had seen everything they were sharing)

I reached out to this woman a while back and asked her if she would ever be willing to help me give my husband a hall pass. That’s another fantasy I have. About a month ago, she finally responded that her husband was on board with it and we arranged a date. A week before they met, I read their messages, and noticed there were things my husband had told me they talked about that weren’t in the messages. When I questioned him he said they were also using Snapchat to communicate. (Which is impossible for me to feel a part of). I got upset, and started questioning him. He was honest (I think) and admitted they were texting and sharing pics via snap, he also admitted that there were parts of their conversations that he had edited, removing sexting. He isn’t sure why he did it, he knows I’m okay with that as long as I’m aware. He thinks even though I have told him I’m cool with it, he worries I’ll get mad. I allowed him to go through with the hall pass, I weirdly felt bad at pulling it away after I’d given the go-ahead, not to mention I was the one that instigated the idea.  I think he has been honest about everything that happened during that night, and I’ve spoken to her as well. I have no issues with that time together. 

 

He insists that this woman doesn’t mean anything to him. That maybe it’s the thrill of doing something he shouldn’t. I feel like I’m at a crossroads. I love this man and our life together so much, and I want to fight for what we have. But I don’t think I can ever trust him again, and I don’t know if I can stay in a marriage with no trust. What’s worse than the trust issue is that I never dreamed he could do something that he knew might lead to losing me.  I can’t even conceive of the idea and I worry that I will never feel cherished and valued again, which I would have previously listed as the two best things about my marriage. I don’t know which is worse - he risked our marriage for a woman he has started to have deep feelings for, or he risked our marriage for a woman that means nothing. 

 

There are other things happening as well - he used to get so excited at getting nudes from me, but once she started sending him hers, he developed a very ho-hum reaction to anything I sent him, sometimes even seeing humor and playfully making fun of my poses, etc. I have always been very self conscious about sending nudes and it took him several years to get me to a place where I enjoyed sending them.   So I was sending him dirty pics that weren’t getting much of a reaction, (maybe at best something like “looking good”) yet I was seeing in their messages where she would send pics and his reaction was “wow, you look hot as fuck” or “I wish I could have my hands on you now”. (The kind of responses he USED to send me) I eventually stopped sending him pics back in February and he has never once asked why I stopped. I think he has gotten so dazzled by the newness of her that he lost excitement about me?  When I recently brought this up to him and told him why I stopped sending pictures to him, he said he had assumed I stopped sending them as a punishment for what he was doing with her 🤦🏻‍♀️. Now he realizes his reaction to my pics  changed and he feels bad about it. He would like me to send him pictures of myself again, but I now feel like any reaction he has to them won’t be genuine. What a mess!!  Our sex life has stayed very active throughout this all.

 

Also, we used to do a lot of sexting between us while working, but since he started sharing that with her, he never reaches out to me with any dirty talk. When I brought the subject up with him, his answer is that since he started doing that kind of talk with her, and since he has slept with her, he feels uncomfortable talking about her to me. But still insists she means nothing to him????

 

Once again, he seems genuine and regretful and is making a lot of promises about change and things he will do differently going forward. I want to stress how great our marriage is, and how well he treats me, outside of this issue. 

 

He is trying to understand his behavior himself, but can’t really offer me much of an explanation.  He keeps saying he doesn’t know why he deleted messages, why he keeps worrying I’ll get mad, why the dirty talk changed, why the thrill of the pictures and his reaction to them changed. I am the type person that in order for me to move forward and forgive , I need to understand his actions. Does anyone have any insight that might help me?   Has anyone experienced betrayal like this and recovered the relationship?  Or am I overreacting to the level of betrayal this feels like to me??  I feel conflicted because I’ve always encouraged him for text and flirt with her. Now I’m angry and hurt that it was hidden from me, but it feels like I was an accomplice so I don’t have a right to be as hurt as I feel. 

 

Side note - she and I also text but not often. I know she has no idea anything has gone on. We have arranged a threesome event in a couple of weeks. I’m not nervous about the physical side of this. I can tell my husband is very nervous, worried he might say it do something that hurts me. This will be a first threesome for us, so I’m confused at why there seems to be no excitement in his part. 

 

Sorry for the long post. I have no swinger friends and none of my regular life friends have any idea we do this, so I have absolutely no one to talk to about any of this and I’m feeling very lost and alone. 

[lovefest04 699]

Daisyrey.... WOW. I'm so sorry to hear your story and challenges. It seems like it's spinning out of control and getting worse not better.

 

First, STOP swinging. Cut off the relationship with the other couple (woman). Your marriage is what needs to be the primary focus. seems to me you could even (if you felt the need) communicate your concerns and reason for stopping to the 'other' woman. From what you've said, i think she would be mortified at the idea she is or might be the reason for your marriage trouble. Most swingers do not want the drama and certainly don't want to be the catalyst for a break up.

 

Your husband is being a dick. His "oh my sorry, I didn't know" is bullshit. As men we always know when we've crossed the line. The game he's playing is mean, rude and disrespectful.

 

Get counseling and work on your relationship/marriage.

 

I don't think you or your husband should participate in the lifestyle. As much fun as it can be, he is not mature enough or committed enough.

 

Good luck,

 

[lcmim 1,082]

YUP!

 

[Gigasangel 58]

Honestly this situation is dangerous for your marriage even if the intentions themselves are not toxic. It sounds like he has become infatuated with this new woman and the opportunities this situation presents. Sexting and all these things may seem playful and at times harmless but his focus has shifted from broadening this sexual horizon with you to the idea of a pseudo secondary relationship with this individual and honestly his concern is that his actions may change your mind on the idea or he simply has become so overwhelmed with the idea that he is not realizing he is being an ass. My suggestion would be to pull back and create distance between your relationship and this other couple till you both feel like you are on the same page.  Go out on the town with your husband but make sure that you sit down and really explain how you feel about this situation and how he is making you feel. if you cannot balance your relationship now, you will invite greater discord in the future. even one sided fantasy requires mutual respect and understanding.

[KatrinaandDriverX 101]

As soon as the agreed upon 'transparency'. becomes 'opaque' you need to stop. Also, as far as editing texts so you wouldn't see the full content, well, a lie of omission is still a lie.  As far as he didn't know why he did it, well, here's why, he knew he was crossing your boundaries and he was getting off on the behavior with the woman.

 

As far as,"She means nothing to me".  Well, then ending things should not be a problem. Also, if she meant nothing, then why was he hiding things ?  He was getting off on the very things that will jeopardize your marriage.

 

As far as my own Swinging life, beyond meeting for amazingly great sex with others, there are no 'side channels' like texting, email, or anything. This is why nothing can evolve independently, even if its initial intentions were innocent, on its own. That, to some degree seems to have happened here. My husband is the same way. If any play partners try to do have extra connections we put a stop to that effort and if that doesn't work we simply end any further communication. Simply said, such efforts are truly,'playing with fire". 

 

The marriage comes first. It is primary and it is all that matters.

 

There's this couple we play with. Sometimes it's a full on foursome with my husband, sometimes I see them independently, or as a threesome. My husband is fully aware.  The sex is blisteringly amazing. There are no side efforts. No texting, photo exchanges, or anything that would build an independent relationship. The result, I'm never explaining myself. I never cross a boundary. And, I get fucked regularly into next week, often with my husband watching   as he's bringing the other wife to 'begging for mercy' from the orgasms she's having with him. 

 

So, there you go.

 

Katrina