Hope it wasn’t a scam.

[BillyandDebbie 301]

We are terribly disappointed with what happened even if things didn’t pan out to what was planned. I don’t think the couple we met set out to use Debbie as a birthday gift but now we are thinking more of the exchange. 
Debbie met a couple online and showed me the profile for my approval. Debbie is our designated site searcher because I just look at pictures while she actually reads profiles and is better at communicating with strangers knowing what questions to ask. 
I looked at the pictures that they posted that matched my criteria, both of them together, fully dressed in several different locations and attractive physically close to our age. 
Profile said they were looking for a first time meeting, curious to swinging, both straight. Debbie communicated by text that the husband was turning 50, she was a few months younger. The texts led to a call between the wives to see what the real story was. Also to make sure there was a wife, not just a guy pretending. According to Deb they only thought of this recently, never met anyone and weren’t sure if they could go through with the actual acts. Debbie suggested we meet at a restaurant to better discuss things and see if we had a connection to them. In the two hours with them we learned we had plenty in common, they are married 25 years and have two kids. This was a change of life curiosity that they couldn’t tell anyone. 
I don’t want to make this a long description, we went back to their house and we watched the husband and Debbie have sex. Not what we were expecting, we went along with it. We knew she wanted to watch her husband, was not sure if she could have sex that night. Were we used? 

[PeterJ 960]

1 hour ago, BillyandDebbie said:

"…Not what we were expecting, we went along with it. We knew she wanted to watch her husband, was not sure if she could have sex that night. Were we used?"

Billy, if you were expecting more than just to watch Debbie have sex with another man — that you would have sex with the other woman — then I understand your disappointment. But at some point prior to the initiation of sex between Debbie and the other man, the woman told you up front she wasn’t sure if she would be able to perform. And she didn’t. The evening may not have turned out as you wished, and you may have been "terribly disappointed’", but you shouldn’t have been surprised. 
 

When the other woman told you she might not have sex with you, if that wasn’t an acceptable outcome for you (and, I assume) Debbie, you could have called off the rest of the evening. 
 

But your concluding question was "Were we used?" Maybe you were. Maybe you weren’t. And you will probably never know, because you don’t know what she was actually thinking when she made that equivocal statement and you won’t be able to put this woman on a polygraph. 😉😂 If she was being candid and truthful with you and Debbie (and perhaps her own husband) then in my opinion your unhappiness is on you. On the other hand, if she never intended to have sex with you but was deceitful in her stating that she was unsure, then yeah, you were used. 
 

(If this really was their first time, I’d be inclined to give them/her the benefit of the doubt. Anecdotally I know that for a lot of couples their first ENM experience is emotionally highly charged and filled with anxiety. For sure lots of folks have posted in these forums describing the challenges of a first time with others. Are you sufficiently curious or potentially interested in a second date that includes you engaging with the other woman? If so, you might want to follow up with them, asking for their evaluation of the evening. You may find, if they respond at all — and assuming she had been honest with you — that they weren’t happy with how things ended up either. But they might also be interested in another round. If so, you should have course make clear that she will need to be comfortable with and committed to having sex with you. And if you do meet up, that you and the other woman begin sex before Debbie and the other man.)

 

 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

5 hours ago, PeterJ said:

If so, you might want to follow up with them, asking for their evaluation of the evening. You may find, if they respond at all — and assuming she had been honest with you —

We are waiting to see if they reach out to us again before we make a call. 
I never pushed to have sex even if we were all naked. She was very focused on watching her husband in Debbie and squeezed me when Debbie appeared very close. She rushed to him when he was done and gave him a big deep kiss. She did ask me if I was okay but didn’t offer to do more to me. The after talk was how great it was to watch him and Debbie, she never saw anything like that. As I already said I didn’t do much to encourage us to put on a similar show for her husband. Debbie was happy at the time so I didn’t make a big thing at the time. 

[Davdia 119]

You said YOUR wife set this up???? 
and SHE is the one who got some???

Sounds almost like your wife set you up, not them

This doesn’t sound like she even took you into consideration, she does all the set up and all you got to do is watch her fuck another woman’s man??

not what you expected, you say?

 If your thing is just Hotwifing that’s one thing, if not I’d be a little concerned about my own wife settling up something where she’s the only one getting some.

[couplers 4,718]

15 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

we went back to their house and we watched the husband and Debbie have sex

Seems to me like a good start.

7 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

we were all naked.

More of a good start.

7 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

She was very focused on watching her husband in Debbie

Were you?

7 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

I didn’t do much to encourage us to put on a similar show

Time to put on your seductive moves.

7 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Debbie was happy at the time

Did your wife take care of you afterwards?  It would have been a good opportunity to start with Debbie to show your readiness then go into the other wife who was obviously turned on by watching her husband with your wife. 

[Davdia 119]

16 hours ago, PeterJ said:

But at some point prior to the initiation of sex between Debbie and the other man, the woman told you up front she wasn’t sure if she would be able to perform.

I’m having trouble digesting this sentence…….A woman who is watching her husband screw your wife, clutching your hands when he is about to orgasm, is unsure if SHE would be able to perform ?????? ….Perform?
Did she have a broken arm or walking on crutches , maybe just had dental surgery???
Interesting she knew to tell you she might not be able perform but had no problem watching and getting excited!

I'm calling BULLSHIT on that one.

This was a couple into Cuckqueaning his wife …………and she was into it!,

she probably gets off on being humiliated by her husband just like a cuckold would getting humiliated by his wife.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Davdia

[cplnluv1 874]

Why am I on here on Valentine’s Day? Happy V Day to all. ❤️

 

Billy you were not scammed. We have been with many first timers and most don’t know what to do or when to do, they met you so you can lead them to what you met for. Getting naked is one of the hardest parts for first timers, some will wait for us to make the first move. 
You did all the right pre-meeting things, wives talk first, meeting for drinks, getting to know them first.  Getting naked is not always the guarantee to complete sex, many couples will stop before anymore happens. 
Our meetings are usually with bicurious women leading to a much bigger challenge because same sex sex is completely new. Alan never makes the first move, I am less threatening and have a better take on how to make things progress. 
Not being there I have no idea how Debbie and the husband started, who initiated the sex and why you and the wife watched.  Is it possible you didn’t initiate the sex with the wife who being new didn’t know how to initiate the sex herself. Some women want more and don’t want to be the one to initiate. Hesitation is not a sign of not wanting. Some women need a little push, not forcibly just a sign. Debbie could have shown her approval by encouraging the wife but that didn’t happen. 
You are relatively new and they were completely new, call them and set a next time and be a little more aggressive and see where it goes. Go with an open mind. 

[Davdia 119]

18 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

We knew she wanted to watch her husband, was not sure if she could have sex that night

Curious if your wife and her discussed you and her at all?
Did his wife tell you she might not be able to perform before you went back to their house?

[MidwestHoneys 359]

Doesn’t sound like a scam. Except from you not getting laid you had a great night with new peeps you met on a hook up page. You said you enjoyed meeting, having drinks and getting to know them well enough to go back to their house. Going to their home not a hotel says they trust you and aren’t hiding anything. 

I have watched Honey fuck guys I never thought I was being scammed or me hotwifing her, I saw her enjoying the fuck and if she is enjoying I’m happy. 
 

They are new so the wife was watching her husband fucking a woman for the first time and you allowed her to soak that in. Watching can be shocking while thinking what else is going to happen. A mistake you made was not trying to fuck her. She said she wasn’t sure if she could, never said she wouldn’t. I bet she went home asking if she wasn’t attractive enough for you or why didn’t she get any. When she squeezed you she was asking for you to do something. She was naked with a man watching a fuck scene, she had to be dripping herself. 
 

Any doubts can be sent away with a call. You will know for sure if they answer. If she answers ask her if the next time is “our” time. 

[EastInWest 1,524]

2 hours ago, MidwestHoneys said:

A mistake you made was not trying to fuck her. She said she wasn’t sure if she could, never said she wouldn’t. I bet she went home asking if she wasn’t attractive enough for you or why didn’t she get any. When she squeezed you she was asking for you to do something. She was naked with a man watching a fuck scene, she had to be dripping herself.

This is a solid point worth reading twice.

[Davdia 119]

12 hours ago, EastInWest said:

A mistake you made was not trying to fuck her. She said she wasn’t sure if she could

I may be old school but I believe you should let a woman tell you,  if she wants to fuck you.

I never push my agenda…….

Not sure if she could but has no problem watching him….sounds an awful lot like a no to me.

This is the second person to say you shouldn’t have listened to what she said??????

Am I that old and out of touch with reality??

[NWAtlSwing 526]

I think things happened and it was fun for you. Maybe this couple will go further next time. If not, you can find someone else to date.

 

 

[EastInWest 1,524]

1 hour ago, Davdia said:

I may be old school but I believe you should let a woman tell you,  if she wants to fuck you.

I never push my agenda…….

Not sure if she could but has no problem watching him….sounds an awful lot like a no to me.

This is the second person to say you shouldn’t have listened to what she said??????

Am I that old and out of touch with reality??

It wasn't my original quote, but I'm not sure the generation gap pulls in that direction.

 

Every vanilla woman I've ever known born before about 1975 not only expects the man to initiate, but considers a woman explicitly asking to be almost taboo.

 

Holding his hand might be the only signal she thought she needed to give for him to try to go for a kiss. If he was wrong, she'd say so and that'd be that.

[EastInWest 1,524]

(Footnote: one of the terrible realizations of my early 30s was how many women were waving neon traffic batons for me to ask for sex in my early 20s, and I was too dumb to notice. "That's not true. That's impossible! Noooooooooooooo")

[TnA83 314]

3 minutes ago, EastInWest said:

(Footnote: one of the terrible realizations of my early 30s was how many women were waving neon traffic batons for me to ask for sex in my early 20s, and I was too dumb to notice. "That's not true. That's impossible! Noooooooooooooo")

Yep.  That was me in high school.

[Davdia 119]

11 minutes ago, EastInWest said:

Every vanilla woman I've ever known born before about 1975 not only expects the man to initiate, but considers a woman explicitly asking to be almost taboo.

And just like that you prove I’m old and out of touch. Lol

I never knew this.

[enhancer 1,586]

Don’t know that it was a scam, but definitely not a scenario that would interest us at all!  Before we go back to someone’s place or have them come to ours we are going to want to know what the intentions of everyone involved are.  If it is not something that appeals to both of us then it isn’t going to happen.

 

 This sounds more like they were looking for a unicorn and your wife filled that spot for them.  Which is fine if both of you are on board for that situation.  Would not be something that interests the missus or myself. If it was the woman wanting to play with my lady well the men watched and then played with their own woman we would be all over that. We have played that way many times in the past.  She gets to live out her bi side and I get to enjoy the show as foreplay.

 

Maybe next time you talk to them ask if they were interested in you fucking the other wife well he and your wife just sit back and watch. The answer you get will tell you what their intentions were all along.  Your wife should not have a problem with that.  Seems reasonable to me.

[TnA83 314]

I would be okay with the scenario as you describe it so far, but as a prelude to a more equitable four way swap at a later meeting. Or even a double team of my wife while the other wife watches (on the first date.)  I'm more of a joiner-inner that a watcher.

[cplnluv1 874]

I’m going to repeat that both are new. One couple had very little experience, the other none. Meeting someone with no experience has its problems, no one knows how somebody is going to react, even the newbie doesn’t know even if they think they know. 
Is there a book New Swingers for Dummies? I bet there is. Think back to your own first times and what your emotions were. The newbie wife said she didn’t know if she could do it. I’m thinking now how I felt the first time I had sex, I bet most of the women on here will say no matter how they wanted it they weren’t sure they could do it. 
Not every meeting goes perfectly if a newbie is involved. If it is meant to be they will work it out. 
To me it isn’t a Scam or way to take advantage of your wife, it was Fear or as others mentioned she was waiting for him to make the first move. 
Live and learn. Every experience is a learning experience 

[shy_couple 460]

It’s tough to tell if you were intentionally duped. Sounds this this was a newbie couple and you two may not be that experienced either. 
 

I’ve heard of this happening when a couple is looking for a unicorn and can’t find one they look for couples. They get swept up in their own fantasy, sometimes not realizing that they are hurting someone else’s feelings or crossing boundaries. 
 

if you have a second date, that will tell the tale. If they decline a second date because it’s out of their system, ehhh…. Who knows?

 

I’ve heard of this happening more often when one of the wives are looking to live out a girl/girl experience and one of the hubbies gets left out. 

[couplers 4,718]

On 2/14/2023 at 7:39 AM, Davdia said:

 

she probably gets off on being humiliated by her husband just like a cuckold would getting humiliated by his wife.

I like watching my husband (and boyfriend) have sex with other women, but don't consider it humiliation.  Neither do they.  

[Davdia 119]

2 hours ago, couplers said:

I like watching my husband (and boyfriend) have sex with other women, but don't consider it humiliation.  Neither do they.  

I guess they could have been more into hot husbanding than Cuckqueaning ……certainly it could have been either…….I meant no disrespect……for each their own.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

We have refrained from commenting...until now. We'll offer two observations and a suggestion. 

 

1. Part of our approach is to talk among ourselves about our FIB--fantasies, intentions, boundaries. There were several opportunities for the two couples (or the two ladies) to share that information. We wonder if such sharing could have been used to better manage expectations. 

 

2. It seems that there was a mismatched expectation, namely an expectation of parity. It's worth thinking about what each of the foursome held as their expectations of parity, equity, or even equality. 

 

3. A (big) part of the LS involves candid communication. Rather than stew, it might make more sense to reach out and say--this is bothering me, can we talk about what happened and how I felt during/after the fact?

[enhancer 1,586]

7 hours ago, couplers said:

I like watching my husband (and boyfriend) have sex with other women, but don't consider it humiliation.  Neither do they.  

I am the same way with the missus!  Love watching her enjoying herself with other people, but humiliation has nothing to do with it.  She finds absolutely nothing interesting about Alpha dom clowns as she likes to call them and I am not lacking in any department so humiliation just isn’t going to happen.  Dudes coming in with that attitude are going to be leaving extremely disappointed and humiliated themselves.

[BillyandDebbie 301]

Not a Scam 

 

Thank you all for the feedback. Some we agreed with, some we didn’t understand. 

On 2/13/2023 at 5:11 PM, PeterJ said:

When the other woman told you she might not have sex with you, if that wasn’t an acceptable outcome for you (and, I assume) Debbie, you could have called off the rest of the evening. 

I stated this incorrectly, she said she hoped she could do it, wanted to do it, just didn’t know if she could do it. Debbie and I knew they were not sure what or how to start so Debbie took things into her own hands, literally. He was very ready quickly. 

 

On 2/14/2023 at 3:42 PM, MidwestHoneys said:

They are new so the wife was watching her husband fucking a woman for the first time and you allowed her to soak that in. Watching can be shocking while thinking what else is going to happen. A mistake you made was not trying to fuck her. She said she wasn’t sure if she could, never said she wouldn’t. I bet she went home asking if she wasn’t attractive enough for you or why didn’t she get any. When she squeezed you she was asking for you to do something. She was naked with a man watching a fuck scene, she had to be dripping herself. 

Bingo!!! Exactly what happened or didn’t. My fault. I didn’t pick up the signs, never checked her dripping. 

 

On 2/14/2023 at 9:39 AM, Davdia said:

This was a couple into Cuckqueaning his wife …………and she was into it!,

she probably gets off on being humiliated by her husband just like a cuckold would getting humiliated by his wife.

Have no idea what that all means. 
 

Let me clear a few things up, Debbie texted Laura, the other wife, thanking for inviting us to their house. Didn’t mention sex, just a TY. Laura asked if Billy was good that he didn’t have sex. This led to a call. Not hearing the conversation Deb said that I missed out, Laura was waiting for me to start. Funny part she said her husband now thinks he’s a stud. Debbie was very loud, Laura said she was faking, he said it was just him being great. 
We were invited back to their house on Valentine’s Day to complete what didn’t happen, we already had plans. We are invited back with one must, She gets hers before I get mine. I wish I could have listened because Debbie said I need to start with oral to get her lubed. Whatever it takes. 

[cplnluv1 874]

23 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Thank you all for the feedback. Some we agreed with, some we didn’t understand. 

We normally want to read what we agree with or what aligns with our beliefs. Agreed some posts feed into other’s experiences.  

 

23 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Let me clear a few things up, Debbie texted Laura, the other wife, thanking for inviting us to their house. Didn’t mention sex, just a TY. Laura asked if Billy was good that he didn’t have sex. This led to a call. Not hearing the conversation Deb said that I missed out, Laura was waiting for me to start. Funny part she said her husband now thinks he’s a stud. Debbie was very loud, Laura said she was faking, he said it was just him being great. 
We were invited back to their house on Valentine’s Day to complete what didn’t happen, we already had plans.

You did what was the correct thing, thanking them not accusing and it led to conversation. It’s hard to read minds or truly know intentions of those that join sites to meet. We have been scammed, eventually you get feelings of who is real and who is fake. We aren’t looking for men who just want to watch the wife have sex with another man but there is a fine line for us because we were looking for curious wives which meant the husbands, including mine, would watch. With all that we may have been scammed a time or two. Not every woman can do what she thinks she wanted to do, meeting us with good intentions. A few of those times I pleased the husbands only if I thought he wasn’t a jerk. We never push too hard to what a woman wants. 
I think the call Debbie made can lead to you making a long term friend. I would warn to not have Debbie do anything unless the other wife is there for you. 
Good Luck and enjoy. 
 

 

[BillyandDebbie 301]

A true Happy Ending or two

 

All my thoughts were for naught. We had a  much better fun and sexual night with laughs and new friendship. Laura, the wife, admitted she was very nervous the first time so she didn’t give me a real sign even though she said she didn’t think she would have stopped me if I made the move. Even now she was not that fast to go ahead as promised. She did! A few times. Was she hotwifed if her husband watched and enjoyed watching  I think. 
For the doubters of their intentions, we spent the night and enjoyed breakfast and more fun the next day. If we didn’t have other plans last night we would have stayed another night. Now that is true happy ending or a happy beginning. 

[cplnluv1 874]

2 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Now that is true happy ending or a happy beginning. 

Nice ending. I figured there wasn’t anything planned to scam you. Happy it wasn’t. 

[Davdia 119]

On 2/17/2023 at 1:15 PM, BillyandDebbie said:

We were invited back to their house on Valentine’s Day to complete what didn’t happen, we already had plans. We are invited back with one must, She gets hers before I get mine.

This doesn’t make sense to me…….didn’t she get hers first last time and you got none.  Shouldn’t you get some first this time?

what if after she gets hers and suddenly can’t perform again?

[BillyandDebbie 301]

7 hours ago, Davdia said:

This doesn’t make sense to me…….didn’t she get hers first last time and you got none.  Shouldn’t you get some first this time?

what if after she gets hers and suddenly can’t perform again?

Maybe if you read it again, it was a conversation between the wives with Laura telling Deb that she, Laura, will be with me before you, Debbie, gets some. 
Sorry if it was confusing. 

[Davdia 119]

5 hours ago, BillyandDebbie said:

Maybe if you read it again, it was a conversation between the wives with Laura telling Deb that she, Laura, will be with me before you, Debbie, gets some. 
Sorry if it was confusing. 

Sorry ……..I read this wrong and thought I meant you.    As in they were going to go first again…..my misunderstanding