When the gentleman is the ambivalent or anxious member of the newbie couple

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

No couple we have ever met has woken up one morning where each simultaneously says to the other, "hey, let's try swinging!" Instead, one or the other partner begins the conversation about exploring the lifestyle. In nearly every case of our ken, it's the gentleman who begins the conversation and the lady who is unsure. The forum postings seem to bear this out, e.g. "How do I get my wife interested in swinging?" or some variant is a common thread. 

 

We are curious about the opposite situation, namely where the lady is forging ahead and the gentleman is unsure, worried, anxious, etc. While rare, this is surely not unknown. 

 

 If you have experienced such situations with another couple, or this describes your situation, we are curious about four things: 

 

1. What was the first clue that the gentleman was at least ambivalent, if not reluctant? 
2. What were his underlying concerns? 
3. Assuming that he continued on with his lady with exploration of swinging, what was said/done to mitigate his concerns to the point that he was willing to put a toe into the LS and see what it felt like for him?
4. What were the short term and long term outcomes for him and for their relationship?

 

Happy to learn either here or via PM about your experience with such a 'reluctant gentleman couple'. 

 

 

 

[let's do it again 416]

I am not really sure if this is the situation you are really looking for but the first time that I  swung was in the early 80's while all participants were in our early twenties. It was me, my wife at the time, her maid of honor and her boyfriend. All 4 of us was at his apartment and the maid of honor announced that she wanted to watch me and my wife fuck. We had no problem with it, but we wanted them to fuck also. He did, and my wife also as we also swapped which he did, but you could tell that he wasn't happy about it and just went along.  It wasn't 2 weeks later that they had split up, which she said he was a "prude ".  Now the maid of honor went thru a lot of men and she was very sexual and that is why me and my ex wife continued to have sex with just her. The reason was because no other man she was with was not cool with swinging, or at least with us. The maid of honor was a very beautiful, short, brunette with big tits with a huge sexual appetite which I feel left her boyfriends insecure about sharing her. As far as our threesome, my ex wife was bi,and the maid of honor simply wanted me, and had sex with my ex wife to get to me.  When me and my ex divorced,  the maid of honor approached me to swing with her, which we did for a few years before she decided to give it up.  But I think her boyfriends wanted monogamy,  she didn't!

Edited February 19, 2023 by let's do it again
Spelling

[Numex 2,459]

2 hours ago, let's do it again said:

I think her boyfriends wanted monogamy,  she didn't!

Some guys don't recognize a rare woman when they have one.  I count myself lucky that the men who proposed marriage to my now wife wanted monogamy and she didn't, otherwise we likely wouldn't have found each other.  She did assume that was how it would be when we got serious and headed towards marriage, and we were monogamous for a couple of years, except for her lesbian encounters, which don't count.  Sensing what I did, I sprung it on her that she should get back into her comfortable rhythm of having more than one male sex partner at a time.  She took me up on it, starting with two old boyfriend, separately.  As things went on she decided she wanted me to play as well, and do FFM threesomes, so we moved to couples swaps.

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

14 hours ago, Numex said:

Some guys don't recognize a rare woman when they have one.  

This is so true. We'll also add that "rare and wonderful" involves strength and partnership and being enhanced by the relationship rather than being defined by being in the relationship. 

[GoldCoCouple 4,068]

I'm doing the typing (Mr. Gold) but this is actually a joint answer:

 

Shortly after we started dating, we also started sharing our previous sexual experiences with each other. Both of us had been married for a long time (20 years) before our relationships went sour. Towards the end of hers, her husband brought up the idea of swinging (with friends) in an attempt to 'save' their marriage. It didn't work (surprise), but when she told me the story, she quickly added that she wasn't opposed to swinging and wouldn't mind trying it again. Now I really liked the idea, except for one little thing...

 

1. What was the first clue that the gentleman was at least ambivalent, if not reluctant? 

 

I told her that I have always been a VERY JEALOUS person and, if we were to proceed, we needed to set rules and limits and stand by them. It was around this time that we found this board and started reading and reading. It took months of reading and talking before we decided on what our rules were going to be, but also kept the rules open for modification as things went forward. It then took more time to find another couple that we 'clicked' with and that was at about the same place as we were with the limits and such.

 

2. What were his underlying concerns? 

 

JEALOUSY

 

3. Assuming that he continued on with his lady with exploration of swinging, what was said/done to mitigate his concerns to the point that he was willing to put a toe into the LS and see what it felt like for him?

 

That I had a woman that was interested in trying swinging, even though she had tried it before and it failed...that she felt safe and loved enough to expose what her fantasies were. That we had our rules and kept checking in with each other to make sure that we were both okay with what was happening. That we would discuss what went on and alter our rules as time went on and we both felt comfortable enough with changing them (yes, we started out with the 'no kissing' rule...that one lasted until the second meeting, but it was important to both of us at the time). I found that jealousy had no place where trust and communication was paramount...it just couldn't exist in that environment.

 

4. What were the short term and long term outcomes for him and for their relationship?

 

We've been together for 13 years and 'dated' another couple for 10 years until they recently moved further away (we still see each other, but only a few times a year now). With covid bringing everything to a stop and it taking so long to get the world started again, we want to start looking for another couple, or couples, but its been slow and not as many people have been signing up or resuming swinging...and covid (and politics) has really polarized the world removing the grey and leaving only black and white at the extremes. We keep looking, and hope that lightening will strike again, but until then all we can do it look and hope.

 

Hope that answers the questions... 

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

2 hours ago, GoldCoCouple said:

I'm doing the typing (Mr. Gold) but this is actually a joint answer...

Thanks for such a thoughtful response. The level of self-awareness and detail is rare and appreciated. Two questions follow based on your placing  JEALOUSY in caps. 

 

There are two prevailing toxic emotions illuminated in the LS. 

 

1. Envy, meaning not having something that someone else has. "I want something you have."  Think "the nicer car, the corner office, the fancier camera". This emotion is usually rooted in fear of inadequacy. 

 

2. Jealousy, meaning someone has taken something that you had. "You want/took something I have/had."  This emotion is usually rooted in fear of loss/abandonment. 

 

While the two genders express these fears differently, they are often at the root of LS ambivalence, drama, etc. 

 

You go on to write, "I found that jealousy had no place where trust and communication was paramount...it just couldn't exist in that environment."  That's an interesting statement. 

 

The usual construct is that the antidote to envy is contentment--finding satisfaction in what you have and not worrying whether someone else has something 'better'.  Similarly, the usual construct is that the antidote to jealousy is compersion--finding satisfaction in someone else's joy and happiness as much as your own. 

 

Your construct is different--you are saying that core values of trust and communication are themselves sufficient to extinguish jealousy. That is a unique and fairly profound statement, and speaks to the importance of establishing those core values (and maybe others) early in a relationship. 

[lcmim 1,086]

Oddly enough jealousy was part of the reason we started.

First a bit of background. I was raised old school Catholic.

 

Part of that was an "examination of conscience " on a regular basis. This is essentially an attempt of an honest self appraisal of how I am living as opposed to  my "best self" that the Creator wishes me to be. This is followed by sincere effort to overcome any flaw.

My life had been hindered by what I recognized as jealousy.( Under the heading of fear of loss)

The first step in discarding a sin or flaw is to renounce it.

The corrective effort on my part became very clear as I had no reason to fear loss.

 

We started out with my extending to my bride a unilateral and perpetual green light.

 

It has worked out rather well.

 

 

[Numex 2,459]

3 hours ago, lcmim said:

We started out with my extending to my bride a unilateral and perpetual green light.

We come from a different background than you, but started the same way.  My wife appreciated it, took advantage of it, and it made us both happier.  She got more and varied sex, I got everything I wanted and needed from her.

 

3 hours ago, lcmim said:

It has worked out rather well.

Same for us. 

[findinganswers 369]

I looked back at my own comments from when we first got involved with our friends who were already in the LS. My wife’s best friend remarried a man who was a swinger when they met and introduced our friend to his lifestyle. My wife knew her friend well before we met, friends with her first husband, lived through her divorce and remarriage. The friend confided to my wife her new sexual life in turn I learned through my wife. We had been invited to join them by way of the wives speaking. I never considered or thought of swinging in real life up to that time. My wife started to discuss the possibility with me, I thought it was a bad idea to even think of doing this with friends. More talk convinced me to go with my wife’s wants. My memory is telling me that I wasn’t fully in agreement. I had internal questions of why was she so interested, I even wondered if she had already joined our friends. The only thing that made that first time for me palatable was having sex with our long time girlfriend. I didn’t enjoy hearing my wife enjoy, I did enjoy what I was feeling with our friend. 
Long term we continued our friendship and expanded our circle of LS friends. Jealousy is no longer a factor, we have continued to play as a couple and have on occasion played individually as a third. 

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

14 hours ago, lcmim said:

I was raised old school Catholic.

 

Part of that was an "examination of conscience " on a regular basis. This is essentially an attempt of an honest self appraisal of how I am living as opposed to  my "best self" that the Creator wishes me to be. This is followed by sincere effort to overcome any flaw.

 

Another way of looking at this is "values" and "living according to values", the latter being an operational definition of "integrity". 

[Fundamental Law 2,903]

10 hours ago, findinganswers said:

I thought it was a bad idea to even think of doing this with friends. More talk convinced me to go with my wife’s wants. My memory is telling me that I wasn’t fully in agreement. I had internal questions of why was she so interested, I even wondered if she had already joined our friends. The only thing that made that first time for me palatable was having sex with our long time girlfriend. I didn’t enjoy hearing my wife enjoy, I did enjoy what I was feeling with our friend... 
Jealousy is no longer a factor...

The ambivalence is clear; so is the priority of listening to the partner and trusting what she wanted even in the face of that ambivalence. And continuing to honor her despite the fact that she was enjoying something that you were not a part of.  That sort of relationship shows extraordinary mutual respect. 

[findinganswers 369]

6 hours ago, Fundamental Law said:

The ambivalence is clear; so is the priority of listening to the partner and trusting what she wanted even in the face of that ambivalence. And continuing to honor her despite the fact that she was enjoying something that you were not a part of.  That sort of relationship shows extraordinary mutual respect. 

Your posting brought back troubling memories that i suppressed. I was very conflicted at the time with thoughts of why she was so interested in having sex with others. I couldn’t talk to anyone about my deep hurt and feeling of inadequacy I was feeling. I tried posting my thoughts looking for answers that I felt others would share. I found myself agreeing with the answers I wanted to accept and shun others that didn’t align with what I wanted. It took time to realize my fears that my wife having sex with others didn’t change our love or respect. I can now say to this group posting that I wanted to cry our first time I watched my wife willingly aggressively having sex. I tried to not see her as I also was having contact with our friend who was just aggressively taking my attention away from was happening just a few feet away. It is very difficult to express my honest feelings even now, years later. Good news is that my fears of what could have happened to our marriage were unfounded. 

[couplers 4,718]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:22 AM, GoldCoCouple said:

I have always been a VERY JEALOUS person and, if we were to proceed, we needed to set rules and limits and stand by them.

That was me.  Except we agreed on only one rule - that neither my husband nor my boyfriend could have another sex partner, and they didn't.  Until one day a woman friend of mine said how attractive my husband was and how nice it must be to sleep with him.  My jealousy exploded and I calmly said, "That can be arranged, he thinks you're very attractive too."

 

When I got home, I told my husband that Cindy thought that he was sexy and I wanted him to fuck her.  He did and from then on I have "enjoyed" my feelings of extreme jealousy.  While I know or am watching my men with another woman, I am still hit with painful jealousy. But when it's over, I can't wait for it to happen again. 

[couplers 4,718]

By trying to keep my previous post short and to the point, I may have mischaracterized what happened.  First, Cindy had gone through a breakup of a long-term relationship and our previous conversations often had touched on sex generally and our sex lives specifically.  So her commenting about my husband wasn't from out of nowhere. 

 

Second, her relationship with my husband wasn't a one-off thing, it was consensual all around and went on for almost a year.

 

Third, my only disappointment was that I never got to see them having sex.  The closest was when David and Cindy fucked at our place or hers while I was there.  Several times at our place Red and did the same in another bedroom.