Just need your advice/thoughts

[Husband1988 3]

Hello everyone,

Me and my wife are new to the lifestyle and so far we've only met 3 couples. 
We have a few rules/boundaries and one of them is that we only do a full swap and have sex if we both have sex. I suffer from ED which I've started getting treatment for which is helping, but before we even went into the lifestyle I felt my penis might not get hard so we added this rule to kind of take the pressure off if I couldn't perform. 

So with experience 1 as expected I didn't get hard at all but enjoyed giving oral and watching my wife give and receive oral, experience 2 was same again. No problems so far and after both these experiences the sex with my wife has been incredible and my favourite part of all this.

Couple no3 is where things for me at least went wrong. 

So we met up for dinner at our place and we got on great and everything was going perfectly and the wine was flowing. First problem is I drank too much, I wasn't drunk but I was closer to drunk than sober. We started playing a game to break the ice and started with the kissing and oral, as before my penis isn't getting hard at all but I just focus on the other wife and use my mouth and hands. I'm not sure how much time had passed but this is where the second problem comes in my wife stops everyone and asks me if it is ok if she has sex. I wasn't thinking clearly due to the alcohol and said yes. She had sex (with condom)  with him and I watched it and when the guy finished we all stopped and that was it.

The day after I felt incredibly conflicted and I explained all this to my wife and how I feel like she should of asked me in private if she could have sex and how we had a rule about only having sex if we both did. I know I shouldn't have drunk so much to keep my mind clear.

I've told my wife I need to step back and take a break from everything and she is fine with it. I'm not angry with my wife or upset, we both made mistakes I just feel disappointed with myself more than anything.

Has anyone else had experiences like this and how do you avoid things like this?? Any advice would be great.

[TricianMike 772]

Advice. Alcohol and impotence go together.  You say you were drunk which makes it even worse. I wouldn’t want to have sex with a drunk. Not only was your dick not work, your brain wasn’t working either. 
You told your wife to take a break because you couldn’t function, she agreed. What would you like to know? 

[EastInWest 1,524]

This is an activity which involves human bodies. They don't always perform exactly the way we'd like to, and 4-way matches are not as widespread as we might all wish.

 

Mistakes frequently come about from bending the rules on the spot, but I'm not 100% sure what mistake she made. What if the situation were reversed and you started having sex and then the other male couldn't perform? Would your wife let you finish and be happy you enjoyed?

 

She asked for permission, you gave it, and you didn't veto any of what was going on. Your reaction was understandable, but also, being "disappointed with myself" for what? Your wife didn't have a bad experience. Everything is basically fine. This will happen again on both sides and now you've run into it and know you didn't enjoy.

[Davdia 119]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:18 AM, Husband1988 said:

Hello everyone,

Me and my wife are new to the lifestyle and so far we've only met 3 couples. 
We have a few rules/boundaries and one of them is that we only do a full swap and have sex if we both have sex. I suffer from ED which I've started getting treatment for which is helping, but before we even went into the lifestyle I felt my penis might not get hard so we added this rule to kind of take the pressure off if I couldn't perform. 

So with experience 1 as expected I didn't get hard at all but enjoyed giving oral and watching my wife give and receive oral, experience 2 was same again. No problems so far and after both these experiences the sex with my wife has been incredible and my favourite part of all this.

Couple no3 is where things for me at least went wrong. 

So we met up for dinner at our place and we got on great and everything was going perfectly and the wine was flowing. First problem is I drank too much, I wasn't drunk but I was closer to drunk than sober. We started playing a game to break the ice and started with the kissing and oral, as before my penis isn't getting hard at all but I just focus on the other wife and use my mouth and hands. I'm not sure how much time had passed but this is where the second problem comes in my wife stops everyone and asks me if it is ok if she has sex. I wasn't thinking clearly due to the alcohol and said yes. She had sex (with condom)  with him and I watched it and when the guy finished we all stopped and that was it.

The day after I felt incredibly conflicted and I explained all this to my wife and how I feel like she should of asked me in private if she could have sex and how we had a rule about only having sex if we both did. I know I shouldn't have drunk so much to kep my mind clear.

I've told my wife I need to step back and take a break from everything and she is fine with it. I'm not angry with my wife or upset, we both made mistakes I just feel disappointed with myself more than anything.

Has anyone else had experiences like this and how do you avoid things like this?? Any advice would be great.

Just my take on this….one simple rule all beginners should follow is never under any circumstances should either person ever challenge their rules in the middle of play. The rules are there to stop each other from hurting your spouse. There probably was a reason they were to only have mutual sex, it might be his justification for making work. You should only ask if you can do something other than what’s been already discussed after this round of play for the next time. In my opinion it’s rude and very disrespectful to your spouse to approach any changes in the middle of play. This is when your the most vulnerable…..It is very easy to put someone in an uncomfortable situation, where they feel like the buzzkill saying no. She definitely shouldn’t have asked him in the middle of play and especially if he was under the influence of anything……My opinion, she overstepped her boundaries and he directly got hurt.  NO RULE CHANGES IN THE MIDDLE OF PLAYING 

[EastInWest 1,524]

38 minutes ago, Davdia said:

Just my take on this….one simple rule all beginners should follow is never under any circumstances should either person ever challenge their rules in the middle of play. The rules are there to stop each other from hurting your spouse. There probably was a reason they were to only have mutual sex, it might be his justification for making work. You should only ask if you can do something other than what’s been already discussed after this round of play for the next time. In my opinion it’s rude and very disrespectful to your spouse to approach any changes in the middle of play. This is when your the most vulnerable…..It is very easy to put someone in an uncomfortable situation, where they feel like the buzzkill saying no. She definitely shouldn’t have asked him in the middle of play and especially if he was under the influence of anything……My opinion, she overstepped her boundaries and he directly got hurt.  NO RULE CHANGES IN THE MIDDLE OF PLAYING 

I agree with this very much, but when I read OP's post, it's really not clear to me if the wife believed she was changing the rules.

 

Was her thought process "he *will* also have sex with her, too, because that's how this works" and he simply didn't communicate that this wasn't going to work?

[lcmim 1,081]

I've said it before and I probably will again.

 

Our understanding is that we both know that neither of us will ever intentionally hurt the other.

With that in mind when things go sideways , we figure out where we went off course and fix it.

 

It doesn't seem as though anyone went out of their way to cause injury.

 

Sex when sober and clearly saying that you only change course after private discussion would have avoided this .

 

If you feel the need you can have a series of code phrases of gestures that allow you two to communicate some basic information and requests with witnesses being none the wiser. 

 

EastinWest may also be correct about what the wife was doing.Lack of clarity can be a bitch.

 

 

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

One, as others have said, if you're having ED problems, do NOT drink alcohol. Follow the pilot's rule of thumb; don't drink the day of playing nor the day before playing. Two, if you're getting treatment for ED, that's great. Independent of playing with others, if you're still having difficulty with your wife, keep your urologist in the loop. There are different alternatives for ED treatment. Also, exercise...get your heart healthy. It will help. Even just walking a couple of miles a day can make a difference. It's not that hard. Just put some shoes on and walk. 40 minutes is 2 miles. Easy. You can track it with a pedometer app on your phone.

 

On the playing, my read of it isn't that rules changed in midstream. Maybe I'm missing something. The rule is you don't have sex unless you both have sex, right? Ok, so she asked and you said yes. To me the implication is that you're planning on having sex and you let your wife have sex because of that. From her perspective, that would be my take. So, I don't think your wife made a mistake or did anything wrong.

 

You might consider soft swap only for a while until your ED problems are rectified, and you feel more confident going into a given situation that you will be able to get and maintain an erection. This problem, even for people without ED, is not at all uncommon in newbie swingers. The first time my wife and I played was soft swap. Mr. Happy decided to do pushups...up..down..up..down...up...down. Couldn't get him to stay up, despite the woman I was playing with being very attractive, and very good.

 

Also; there's no problem with you having rules. That's perfectly normal and expected. Over time in the lifestyle, you will find your rules will fall by the wayside and devolve down to one or two that won't go away (one likely being condoms are a must). My wife and I had a bunch of rules at the beginning. They're almost all gone now. Less rules makes it easier to relax and have fun. Don't drop rules until you're ready, but understand rules will go away.

[PeterJ 940]

3 hours ago, Husband1988 said:

Husband1988, I’m sorry the lifestyle thus far has not worked out as well as you had hoped. And I hope things will go better for you in the future — and of course for your wife as well.

"Me and my wife are new to the lifestyle and so far we've only met 3 couples. 
We have a few rules/boundries and one of them is that we only do a full swap and have sex if we both have sex. I suffer from ED which I've started getting treatment for which is helping, but before we even went into the lifestyle I felt my penis might not get hard so we added this rule to kind of take the pressure off if I couldn't perform."

 

As attractive and exciting as is the prospect of a more open and varied sex life with new partners, for most folks embarking on the adventure there is at least some degree of anxiety. Often a high level of anxiety. I’ve seen this happen and I experienced it myself. (Prior to my first MFM with good friends, 41 years ago, while the husband was showering I found myself literally shaking while the wife stroked my arm, assuring me that "everything is going to be fine." And it was! 😂)

 

People look for ways to reduce their anxiety. Alcohol is not one of the better ways to accomplish that. And while alcohol in moderate amounts can ease anxiety and disinhibit behavior, it does not help with getting or maintaining erections. You came into this encounter expecting to not get hard and then you took steps — over-consuming wine — to almost ensure you would not have an erection. Enough wine that your cognitive capabilities were impaired and you signed off on a request by your wife that your sober self now regrets.

 

"Has anyone else had experiences like this and how do you avoid things like this?? Any advice would be great." On this board I generally make observations, as I have in the paragraphs above. However, you have directly solicited advice from the board. I’m going to assume that was a sincere request, and I will give you further observations and suggest strategies for achieving more satisfaction from participating in the lifestyle — or coming to a decision on whether you and your wife’ should continue in it.

 

it seems quite clear to me, as I think it is to you or you wouldn’t be reaching out, that Cic you continue on your current arc, "other sports beckon" as a racing instructor of my acquaintance observed of students who he deemed were on their way to expensive and potentially physically painful automotive experiences. If you want to get things back on track toward a happy lifestyle experience, here are my suggestions. (Others on the board will offer other suggestions; mine are not exhaustive.)

 

First, the way you have framed your approach seems to me to be more transactional that caring. It comes across to me as essentially "my wife only gets to have the same level of sexual intimacy as I do. If I can’t have intercourse neither can she." At the least that seems ungenerous on your part. My observation over the decades is that couples who achieve longterm enjoyment in the lifestyle are first concerned with their partner having enjoyable and fulfilling experiences and secondarily with their own. When both partners take that approach good things tend to happen and to keep happening. (I suggest you review the many posts by Numex to get a sense of what this means in a practical and non-abstract sense.) In my opinion if you cannot revise your thinking about this matter, we’ll, "other sports beckon…"

 

Whether you continue in the lifestyle or not, I’m assuming you are taking ED meds. Those drugs physiologically potentiate achieving erection. But they don’t of themselves cause your penis to get hard; your brain still has gotta want your penis to perform. Not for sure, but is it possible your brain is ambivalent about doing this? (When you are home with your wife and you only drink a little, are you able to attain and maintain an erection? If so, you might want to think about what that suggests.) 

 

If you do decide to continue seeking ENG adventures perhaps you should consider taking a step back. Slide into the shallow end of the pool rather than diving into the deep end. It sounds like giving and receiving oral went okay for you. Were you able to get and stay hard? Did you cum? Perhaps think about separate rooms. And consider suspending, at least temporarily, your rule about your wife only being able to have intercourse if you do as well. It may be that rather than reducing your anxiety about not getting an erection, li just added to it.
 

 In summary, think hard (oops, sorry😉) about what you want from swinging and discuss this with your wife — including what she wants. Proceed thoughtfully.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Husband1988 said:

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Husband1988 said:

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Husband1988 said:

 

 

 

 

 

[enhancer 1,584]

Agree that asking to change rules in front of others while playing is only looking for trouble!  Getting the rule’s figured out before and after with each other and sticking by them will make less of a chance of hurt feelings. 
 

Honestly though swinging isn’t always going to end up with equal experiences for both people in a couple.  Knowing that and being okay with the fact that maybe this time one of you will experience more this round is a good way to approach it. It can be incredibly exciting seeing your partner please and be pleased by someone else and at the end of the day they are still committed to you and love you.  In fact you being okay with their sexual freedom probably will just make them be even more committed and in love with you.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is your physical issues have nothing to do with her!  It is your problem to deal with and try to fix.  All she can do is understand and support.  You not wanting her to be able to have fun, because you can’t is something that can’t make either of you feel good.  She is committed to you.  Reward her by letting her have fun when you can’t and your relationship together will be rewarded.

 

As for your ed have you had your heart checked out?  Ed is often caused by plugged up arteries and can be a sign of bad flow.  Eating less or no meat helps this big time, but I know most do not like that solution.  My dick has never been harder longer then since I quit eating meat 3 and a half years ago,  but that was just one of the perks.  Regardless take care of your health and put some thought into what you put into your body.  

[Davdia 119]

57 minutes ago, EastInWest said:

I agree with this very much, but when I read OP's post, it's really not clear to me if the wife believed she was changing the rules.

 

Was her thought process "he *will* also have sex with her, too, because that's how this works" and he simply didn't communicate that this wasn't going to work?

I think if she had to ask him if he was okay with it then it’s implied that she clearly knew it was crossing a line.    

[Husband1988 3]

3 hours ago, TricianMike said:

Advice. Alcohol and impotence go together.  You say you were drunk which makes it even worse. I wouldn’t want to have sex with a drunk. Not only was your dick not work, your brain wasn’t working either. 
You told your wife to take a break because you couldn’t function, she agreed. What would you like to know? 

I'm not sure why you need to be so angry in your post.

I wasn't drunk I was tipsy yes but not drunk and my dick not working isn't the issue at all here. 

If you read my post you would see I'm asking about rules and rule changes and to get more experienced people's thoughts. 

Thanks for the response though.

[Husband1988 3]

1 hour ago, EastInWest said:

I agree with this very much, but when I read OP's post, it's really not clear to me if the wife believed she was changing the rules.

 

Was her thought process "he *will* also have sex with her, too, because that's how this works" and he simply didn't communicate that this wasn't going to work?

She has said that she was asking if she could have sex and because I answered yes she assumed that I wanted to have sex too. 

I can see her point of view and it's a mistake we could all make.

I want to avoid misunderstandings like this in the future if that's even possible. 

[Husband1988 3]

1 hour ago, lcmim said:

I've said it before and I probably will again.

 

Our understanding is that we both know that neither of us will ever intentionally hurt the other.

With that in mind when things go sideways , we figure out where we went off course and fix it.

 

It doesn't seem as though anyone went out of their way to cause injury.

 

Sex when sober and clearly saying that you only change course after private discussion would have avoided this .

 

If you feel the need you can have a series of code phrases of gestures that allow you two to communicate some basic information and requests with witnesses being none the wiser. 

 

EastinWest may also be correct about what the wife was doing.Lack of clarity can be a bitch.

 

 

Yeah like you said no one was hurt it's just a miscommunication and misunderstanding that caused a slight problem.

 

I like the idea of a phrase or signal for future.

I will talk to my wife about it.

Thanks

[Husband1988 3]

1 hour ago, bbarnsworth said:

One, as others have said, if you're having ED problems, do NOT drink alcohol. Follow the pilot's rule of thumb; don't drink the day of playing nor the day before playing. Two, if you're getting treatment for ED, that's great. Independent of playing with others, if you're still having difficulty with your wife, keep your urologist in the loop. There are different alternatives for ED treatment. Also, exercise...get your heart healthy. It will help. Even just walking a couple of miles a day can make a difference. It's not that hard. Just put some shoes on and walk. 40 minutes is 2 miles. Easy. You can track it with a pedometer app on your phone.

 

On the playing, my read of it isn't that rules changed in midstream. Maybe I'm missing something. The rule is you don't have sex unless you both have sex, right? Ok, so she asked and you said yes. To me the implication is that you're planning on having sex and you let your wife have sex because of that. From her perspective, that would be my take. So, I don't think your wife made a mistake or did anything wrong.

 

You might consider soft swap only for a while until your ED problems are rectified, and you feel more confident going into a given situation that you will be able to get and maintain an erection. This problem, even for people without ED, is not at all uncommon in newbie swingers. The first time my wife and I played was soft swap. Mr. Happy decided to do pushups...up..down..up..down...up...down. Couldn't get him to stay up, despite the woman I was playing with being very attractive, and very good.

 

Also; there's no problem with you having rules. That's perfectly normal and expected. Over time in the lifestyle, you will find your rules will fall by the wayside and devolve down to one or two that won't go away (one likely being condoms are a must). My wife and I had a bunch of rules at the beginning. They're almost all gone now. Less rules makes it easier to relax and have fun. Don't drop rules until you're ready, but understand rules will go away.

My ED was found to be low testosterone after tests, so I'm taking testosterone replacement which has improved things with my wife.

 

You're right about my wife's perspective and I can see why she thought it. Even then I still don't think she should have asked in front of the other couple.

 

We've already had a few rules change in our short time in the lifestyle so I can definitely see what you mean about them changing or going away over time

Thanks for your thoughts

[Husband1988 3]

58 minutes ago, enhancer said:

Agree that asking to change rules in front of others while playing is only looking for trouble!  Getting the rule’s figured out before and after with each other and sticking by them will make less of a chance of hurt feelings. 
 

Honestly though swinging isn’t always going to end up with equal experiences for both people in a couple.  Knowing that and being okay with the fact that maybe this time one of you will experience more this round is a good way to approach it. It can be incredibly exciting seeing your partner please and be pleased by someone else and at the end of the day they are still committed to you and love you.  In fact you being okay with their sexual freedom probably will just make them be even more committed and in love with you.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is your physical issues have nothing to do with her!  It is your problem to deal with and try to fix.  All she can do is understand and support.  You not wanting her to be able to have fun, because you can’t is something that can’t make either of you feel good.  She is committed to you.  Reward her by letting her have fun when you can’t and your relationship together will be rewarded.

 

As for your ed have you had your heart checked out?  Ed is often caused by plugged up arteries and can be a sign of bad flow.  Eating less or no meat helps this big time, but I know most do not like that solution.  My dick has never been harder longer then since I quit eating meat 3 and a half years ago,  but that was just one of the perks.  Regardless take care of your health and put some thought into what you put into your body.  

Yeah seeing my wife give and receive pleasure has been great and like I said the sex afterwards when the other couples have left has been awesome.

 

I never thought of it as me stopping her from having fun. We made the rules together and we knew my ED might've been a problem so we thought of it as a way to avoid me feeling pressure from not performing for the other wife. 

Definitely a rule to change or review.

It's more of the asking in front of the other couple I didn't like that's all.

 

Thankfully my ED is just low testosterone and the testosterone gel I'm using has made a difference in just a couple of weeks.

 

Thanks for your thoughts 

[Husband1988 3]

57 minutes ago, Davdia said:

I think if she had to ask him if he was okay with it then it’s implied that she clearly knew it was crossing a line.    

Definitely what my thought was the morning afterwards but she has said as I said yes she assumed it was because I was going to have sex too. 

 

I believe her and can see her point of view 

[Davdia 119]

8 minutes ago, Husband1988 said:

Definitely what my thought was the morning afterwards but she has said as I said yes she assumed it was because I was going to have sex too. 

 

I believe her and can see her point of view 

It’s ok to not be upset but don’t lie to cover it up. Make no mistake as an adult she knew what was going on and had lots of opportunities during getting laid to….I don’t know, maybe look your way??    If my spouse had a sexual problem of any kind …..that would be my FIRST concern.  Especially if they got involved in swinging so that I could be taken care of.

[Davdia 119]

3 hours ago, Husband1988 said:

Definitely what my thought was the morning afterwards but she has said as I said yes she assumed it was because I was going to have sex too. 

 

I believe her and can see her point of view 

Allowing someone to give you a bullshit answer like what she said is settling yourself up for all kinds of future problems. You made rules, she crossed them! No excuses. 
I would make her admit that she did this knowingly and make her promise not to do it.
You wouldn’t be asking for help if you believed her.

[cplnuswing 4,713]

Swinging in a foursome is tricky since there are four ways for something to go wrong.  Just about anyone with much swinging experience will have at least one story of when things did go wrong.  It's important to not focus on the fact that something went wrong, but to see what can be learned from it for next time. With all of the emotions involved in swinging, that's a skill that needs to be learned and takes some practice.  @lcmimhit the nail on the head though about how you do that - you start with a complete and total understanding that neither would intentionally do anything to hurt the other.  Once you've got that baseline, then things move more into that accidental vs intentional realm, and accidents happen, and you learn from them.

[NYirCPL 38]

I (male half) can visualize this from both perspectives.  It's gotta be awkward and disappointing not being able to function, but wanting to seem cool about it (like it doesn't bother you) and keep the party going for all.   Sort of burying the emotion in an effort to make everyone else comfortable when you yourself are not.  I have friends who have had performance issues and have picked up on non-verbal cues (I'm somewhat of an empath) to realize the night would be best executed soft swap.

 

On the flipside our female half has had several experiences where the other male has had ED issues and it has driven her to frustration when I've been able to perform to the extent she almost wanted to stop seeing other couples and just stick to parties.  I could envision being in a situation where she is in a good place and excited and I bury my own feelings to just let her have her overdue experience to break a streak, for the greater good of the hobby.  I guess this would be a variation of taking one (emotionally) for the team.

 

I don't really have advice beyond sticking to soft swap until you get your willy under control, but I can sympathize with the emotions you need to identify and work through. 

 

Good luck