How do you deal with...?

[so_confused 4]

We've been at this for about a year now, and there are some things that we just haven't got quite right, or haven't been satisfied with. I'm sure our experiences are not unique. We've read the boards and picked people's brains but still haven't resolved our frustrations. We decided to try and start a discussion, and hope that besides advice, other people with similar experiences might be encouraged to ask their questions here.

 

[so_confused 4]

So here's my first rant... The men we meet are duds. We date at least once per week, usually more if life permits. On a first (and usually last) date, most of the time, while I'm trying to engage the lady the man is talking to me about work and football. My wife gets more flirts from the women than the men. I have to guess that men just assume that they're all so irresistible that they're getting fucked just for showing up. 

[hunterdonNJcpl 1,387]

16 minutes ago, so_confused said:

So here's my first rant... The men we meet are duds... I have to guess that men just assume that they're all so irresistible that they're getting fucked just for showing up. 

We can relate. Age range is important. Too young and they think they're God's gift, too old and they want to plop on the sofa and watch football.

We find maturity, fitness and activity levels are important.

Also, and I'm bound to get some hate for this, we found we had more success with black guys than white guys. Just sayin'.

[so_confused 4]

I'm so glad to hear we're not the the only ones.

A couple we dated last year, he got offended when we asked if we could switch seats. They told us it was poor etiquette to flirt with someone elses spouse in public. (?) Then he went back to talking about work. She was giggling and talking about fucking and gang-bangs, and all manner of fun stuff...to my wife. She was so into it and fun. He never said one word to my wife through dinner, and never one word about swinging to me except to complain about how much cruises and clubs and dating cost. This is maybe the weirdest, most extreme example, but fairly representative of at least half of the people we have met. Where are the fun people?

[let's do it again 414]

29 minutes ago, so_confused said:

I'm so glad to hear we're not the the only ones.

A couple we dated last year, he got offended when we asked if we could switch seats. They told us it was poor etiquette to flirt with someone elses spouse in public. (?) Then he went back to talking about work. She was giggling and talking about fucking and gang-bangs, and all manner of fun stuff...to my wife. She was so into it and fun. He never said one word to my wife through dinner, and never one word about swinging to me except to complain about how much cruises and clubs and dating cost. This is maybe the weirdest, most extreme example, but fairly representative of at least half of the people we have met. Where are the fun people?

You will meet all kinds. We have met couples that couldn't hold a conversation because they couldn't put down Tic Toc. I don't mean young people either, these were in there mid 50's. I am 62 and swapped with people in their 20's all the way to 70's. It's all about personality, if the other couple is boring, then entertain them! Make them moan instead of talking about work or sports. Get filthy with them, lick their asshole or piss all over them.  Give them something to talk about!

[24fun4u 8]

It can be difficult for people to discuss, shall we say, taboo subjects with other couples in public. If you are in a bar perhaps he didn't want everyone to know his wife loves gang bangs?

We have found that couples that want to be "friends first" tend to want to talk about football, work, TV, etc, and not sex. This has always puzzled us because, we are meeting you to, yes, enjoy your company, but mostly to see if we are sexually compatible, attracted and so on.

We very much like to share some of our experiences, both good and bad, with a new couple we meet. Its part of the turn on.

[so_confused 4]

1 hour ago, let's do it again said:

 ...Give them something to talk about!

 

[so_confused 4]

I see your point. Unfortunately, what I'm saying is it never gets that far. Things, more often than not, end at dinner.

She won't say it, but I'm sure for my wife this is only about half about sex. After xx years of marriage and x kids, she's wanting to know that other men still find her interesting and attractive. Wanting to fuck isn't enough. After all, most of us with penises would stab any warm, wet hole that stays still long enough to harpoon it. She's there to fuck, she just wants to know she's worth a little effort. I can't fault her for that, we all have our own motivations.

[let's do it again 414]

13 minutes ago, so_confused said:

I see your point. Unfortunately, what I'm saying is it never gets that far. Things, more often than not, end at dinner.

She won't say it, but I'm sure for my wife this is only about half about sex. After xx years of marriage and x kids, she's wanting to know that other men still find her interesting and attractive. Wanting to fuck isn't enough. After all, most of us with penises would stab any warm, wet hole that stays still long enough to harpoon it. She's there to fuck, she just wants to know she's worth a little effort. I can't fault her for that, we all have our own motivations.

Isn't that a problem swinger or vanilla, you are always facing lazy fuckers. An experienced swinger usually will treat his swing partner as good as his SO, face some people are just dull and it's all about them. I don't know what to tell you other than screen your potential partners and be picky.

[so_confused 4]

1 hour ago, 24fun4u said:

...because, we are meeting you to, yes, enjoy your company, but mostly to see if we are sexually compatible, attracted and so on.

Right!? This approach seems perfectly reasonable, and has always been our premise, however, I'm beginning to think that a large portion of the "friends first" crowd don't even have vanilla friends and we should be skipping them and spending our time with the "I'll meet you at Safeway, and we'll fuck in the car" crowd.

I understand not being too filthy in public, we're rather reserved in our daily lives, but we pick date spots on that basis. Noisy enough to speak openly, not so noisy that you can't have a conversation. If I wanted to talk about work, I'd hang out with work friends. 

[so_confused 4]

13 minutes ago, let's do it again said:

Isn't that a problem swinger or vanilla, you are always facing lazy fuckers. An experienced swinger usually will treat his swing partner as good as his SO, face some people are just dull and it's all about them. I don't know what to tell you other than screen your potential partners and be picky.

It's good to hear, what you said about experienced swingers. We just need to keep at it. Our percentages are so low it's getting hard to be motivated, and we need to look somewhere other than the dating sites.

[let's do it again 414]

I have always found that the guy that seems excited to fuck my gal isn't going to be dull or lazy. Enthusiasm goes a long way. 

[so_confused 4]

Are you saying something about my wife?

[so_confused 4]

7 minutes ago, let's do it again said:

I have always found that the guy that seems excited to fuck my gal isn't going to be dull or lazy. Enthusiasm goes a long way. 

 

[MrMrsswinger 202]

I can't speak to the specifics of you or your wife (are there pictures of her on your profile, I didn't look). I will suggest that guys sometimes have hesitation being flirty with another man's wife in person at first. This is because maybe he is waiting to see how his wife likes the other husband first before getting too far. Many times the wife makes the go-or-no decision. Another thought is the man isn't real comfortable about what kind of discussion your wife likes. I've found that some women immediately put up the stop sign if you use certain language (e.g. "cock" instead of penis). It sounds ridiculous but I've seen it.

 

I know when we meet another couple the discussion is never separate. It is a group discussion with everyone involved, not a breakout session with two swapped partners. We approach swinging as a group, looking to have MFM, FMF, MFMF, etc not just a couple swap. We're great together, swinging is the way we experience things we can't do as a couple. Breaking apart, separate rooms, etc isn't our thing. So for us, there is no trading seats. We all sit together, usually at an intimate table in a bar/pub.  We chat together, we get a feel of the other couple together. Our approach may be what you are experiencing with the couples who don't swap seats and couple up. Maybe more screening up front would ensure your approach to swinging is what the couple you're meeting enjoys.

[so_confused 4]

I'm usually the one waiting for a signal from my wife. Most of the couples we've met, the other wife is the aggressor, both with myself and my wife. Not that my wife doesn't like the attention from the ladies, she's dtf men and women. 

Look, we've had some fun. Maybe i just expect too much. I thought swinging was going to be a smogasbord of open minded, fun people. What im coming to realize is that the community really is a cross-section of human-kind at large...that is most of them are boring people with nothing interesting to say.

[so_confused 4]

As for coupling up, what I meant was, if the whole reason we're all there is for a chemistry check, we might want sit closer to the person we're gonna be rubbin on later. We don't usually suggest it until it's time for dessert. It's not a same / seperate room thing. We're all still sitting in the same booth.

[so_confused 4]

Thanks for interacting guys. I'm still listening.

[so_confused 4]

So, you guys keep suggesting we should screen better so I'm gonna switch gears a little bit.

We spend a lot of time screening. Besides what we've been talking about here the most frustrating part about screening is Truth In Advertising. Most of our screening efforts are spent teasing out who's using old pics, people who never update the age on their profile, people who've gained a hundred pounds...general dishonesty. We're gonna see these people eventually. How can anyone think that its a good idea to let us think they're 20 years younger than they actually are for a week, and then spring the "here's what we look like" pics when we're on the way to the restaurant? On what planet does that work out well? It's gawdamm exhausting having to assume that anyone who's profile is more than 5 years old is lying right from the beginning.

We've dated people that are older than us, but we new that right from the beginning. We've dated people who were a little rounder than we are, but we knew. 

Besides asking outright (which we have taken to) are there other ways you guys deal with this?

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

When it comes to communicating with another potential couple, we don't spend too much time. If they seem to be a match, we go ahead and set up a dinner (or drinks). You will learn more in 5 minutes in person than you will ever learn sending emails and/or texts. It will also quickly week out the fakers as well. Sure, your are going to go out of a lot of dinners where there isn't any chemistry, but the only way to find out if there is anything is to meet. We look at it as a fun night out for us since we let everyone know that there is nothing more than dinner on the schedule. You have to remember: finding a four way match is HARD. Much more difficult than finding your partner because it's times four. We have met other couples that we thought we instantly clicked with...only to find out for one reason or another, they didn't click back. Don't take it personal, just move on to the next couple. It's a numbers game and eventually you will find a match. Don't invest too much time in non-matches or near misses.

 

As for why you have encountered men who are duds...most men (IOHO) try to stay on the 'safe' side when it comes to talking. In this climate, talking about sex to a woman (especially one that isn't your partner) can be a very risky proposition. The safe route is to talk to the other man about safe subjects. Most men do not want to come across as crass, or even worse, pigs. We have run across this SO MANY TIMES. Thing to do is to keep steering the conversation towards the group (all four of you) and not having it become 'just the women' and 'just the men' talking. You're all there to find out more about the TWO of them and they of you. The other 'funny' thing is how many couples are afraid to bring up the topic of '...sex' (said in a hushed tone). People aren't supposed to talk about sex with other couples, especially in public...but that's what the four of you are there for. Eventually SOMEONE needs to bring up the topic and let it be known that it is okay to talk about sex. We usually do this by asking about their 'experience' in the L/S. Once this door is opened and they know that its okay, things usually take a much more interesting turn.

 

Since we have made it known from the start that the first meeting is just a meeting with no play scheduled, it gives everyone the chance to discuss things afterwards. Most of the time there is no spark or connection and we all just go our separate ways, but usually with a bit more knowledge than we had before. Sometimes one couple is interested but the other isn't, but sometimes (and once again, this is a rare occurrence) everyone will want to meet for a second meeting. That's when the good stuff happens...

 

It's not easy...it isn't supposed to be. We swing, not because it is easy, but because it is hard (okay, I'm paraphrasing Kennedy here, but I'm pretty sure this is what he meant). Once you get through the weeds and chafe, it is worth it. Totally worth the effort and work required!

[Anon321 522]

49 minutes ago, GoldCoCouple said:

When it comes to communicating with another potential couple, we don't spend too much time. If they seem to be a match, we go ahead and set up a dinner (or drinks). You will learn more in 5 minutes in person than you will ever learn sending emails and/or texts. It will also quickly week out the fakers as well.

I agree 100% with this.  Emails and texts are a joke if you want to know someone especially when it comes to a sexual encounter.  Literally 90% of my GFs emails and texts were filled with fakes, people that have no intention on ever meeting up, people who talk a big game but have the opposite personality in person... I don't even have the patience to deal with it anymore.  I always say never waste too much time with text or email on someone you haven't met yet.  Keep it short and sweet until there is an in-person meeting otherwise it's just a waste of time.  My GF has far more patience with the texting than I do.

[so_confused 4]

When we started, I didn't want to text very much at all. We connect, make a date, meet up. Recently, it just seems everyone is lying. It's become apparent that you can't prescreen people who are gonna be dishonest anyway. Were going back to the old system. Minimal screening, but I can't be polite any more. If they show up and are not as advertised, we'll just get up and leave. I don't know how else to do it.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:35 PM, 24fun4u said:

It can be difficult for people to discuss, shall we say, taboo subjects with other couples in public. If you are in a bar perhaps he didn't want everyone to know his wife loves gang bangs?

We have found that couples that want to be "friends first" tend to want to talk about football, work, TV, etc, and not sex. This has always puzzled us because, we are meeting you to, yes, enjoy your company, but mostly to see if we are sexually compatible, attracted and so on.

We very much like to share some of our experiences, both good and bad, with a new couple we meet. Its part of the turn on.

First Friends is too much work for us. We are meeting to play. We have friends. We don't mine swinging buddies we are friendly with, but that is not the reason we are here.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

1 hour ago, so_confused said:

When we started, I didn't want to text very much at all. We connect, make a date, meet up. Recently, it just seems everyone is lying. It's become apparent that you can't prescreen people who are gonna be dishonest anyway. Were going back to the old system. Minimal screening, but I can't be polite any more. If they show up and are not as advertised, we'll just get up and leave. I don't know how else to do it.

Maybe you just write it off as a nice dinner. And that is that.

[so_confused 4]

It's not nice when you're there under false pretenses.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

7 minutes ago, so_confused said:

It's not nice when you're there under false pretenses.

Sorry I was not clear.

 

I am suggesting re-framing things so you can enjoy the dinner and go home. I have found that re-framing things can help me.

 

But, your mileage may vary.

[so_confused 4]

Yeah, i get it. Make lemonade. But we date sometimes 2-3 times a week. When Im busy at work, I might only have time once a month. In either case, my free time is valuable to me, and sometimes i feel like its being stolen. So, its getting harder to be polite to people who got you there by lying. ( Yes, obscuring the truth, or skirting around it is lying.) I also get that these peoples behavior is most times driven by insecurity, im not apothetic. Now, I'm just ranting. Sorry bout that.

[njbm 2,869]

We often did better on lifestyle cruises. People there are DTF. Some are from rural locales where swingers are few and far between. These people are psyched to get and give action. 

[so_confused 4]

We're planning that. Hopefully in the fall this year.

[TeamCalgary 168]

May I offer some thoughts please. 

 

Know what you are looking for (physical, intellectual, situational, etc). 

Be brutally clear about this in your communication with others. 

 

Minimize the time spent on low payoff activities/people; if you chat with another couple, find out what you can re: the point above asap,

and if that hurdle is cleared, then request a meeting. If they vacillate or distract from directly addressing your request with a yes or no, move on. 

 

We have also had the same difficulties that you are facing; for us, it came down to that we wanted to have fewer, but better experiences. 

That means being clear about who you are and what you are looking for and being very focused on finding out what you need to know when

communicating with other couples. You will likely find that you will say "no" more often but that your experiences themselves will be better. 

[bbarnsworth 2,637]

My wife and I have felt since early on in swinging that if we find a great couple or great single guy (we've never tried for a unicorn) that we're not going to just one-and-done the couple/guy. Finding a great couple or guy can be challenging. After we've spent so much effort finding someone like that, why give them up? This is how my wife found and kept two long term boyfriends (extending years in both cases) and also a couple for more than a year.

 

Ok there's negative trade-offs. You risk the potential issue of emotions developing, or worse those emotions beginning to cause problems. Having emotions can be managed; it's when they make things go pear shaped that causes a problem. You also are doing "less new" experiences in favor of more frequent good/great experiences. Personally, I'd give up all the bad "new"s in favor of some months/years of great sex with someone. Your situation may vary of course. But, for as many duds as you're running into, it seems to me the obvious solution is find one or more good ones and keep them around.

 

I agree a lot of guys are duds. It's sad. It happens in vanilla life too. Dating seems less common these days among the college/20s set. But, the dates I do see out and about in public? So often it seems the lady in question went to great effort to look absolutely fantastic. The guy? He shows up in a t-shirt and jeans..or even worse. I want to grab the guy by the shoulders and tell him to wake up. Guys just don't seem to get it anymore.

[NWAtlSwing 522]

On 5/24/2023 at 5:40 PM, so_confused said:

Yeah, i get it. Make lemonade. But we date sometimes 2-3 times a week. When Im busy at work, I might only have time once a month. In either case, my free time is valuable to me, and sometimes i feel like its being stolen. So, its getting harder to be polite to people who got you there by lying. ( Yes, obscuring the truth, or skirting around it is lying.) I also get that these peoples behavior is most times driven by insecurity, im not apothetic. Now, I'm just ranting. Sorry bout that.

I understand that sense of wasted time.

We have long liked house parties to avoid all the dating nonsense.

[GoldCoCouple 4,065]

Quote

Yeah, i get it. Make lemonade. But we date sometimes 2-3 times a week.

Maybe try being more selective? We are lucky if we find one couple a MONTH (and it's usually much less than that) to consider a first date with. We have found that it is usually us that has to bring up talk about sex, and if they steer the talk back to vanilla topics that's a warning sign (I can't tell you how many times the man knew what we going on but the woman either didn't know or was 'just doing it for her partner'). If things aren't clicking, we have a secret phrase that says 'this isn't going to work, let's go' so we can end the night earlier.

 

Once again, a four way match is HARD and will take time and effort, so you need to try and enjoy the process along the way as well as the finale. Especially in this climate where most everything has become so black and white (there seems to be no grey zones in opinions any longer...you either agree completely with one side or you are a wacked out crazy person). People have also become much less social as well, not wanting to meet or socialize. The couple that we dated for 10+ years recently had to move and while we WANT to start looking for another couple, knowing how difficult it is, we have been postponing getting back into the game again (we still see our others friends, just now it is a couple times a year instead of at least once a month) for this very reason. 

[so_confused 4]

We've done (are doing) what you're talking about. Not exactly. We've got a very few A team friends, people who we like being with even if we're not fucking. B team friends are people who we really dont have anything in common with, except fucking. We keep dating and occasionally hooking up with the B team to keep things fresh. B team people, we rarely have seen more than 2-3 times. We love dating. Nothing beats New Relationship Energy.

Now that I'm thinking about it, we really don't have vanilla friends anymore. That's probably because we started dating because we were tired of the same conversations every weekend. I shouldn't say that we're not still friends with those people, but time with them just seems like being in an old movie. Everything is colorless, the dialog is stale and predictable. It makes me anxious, like I could be doing something better.